Carville: "running for president is like sex: you don’t do it once and forget about it"

[sabra]

http://www.observer.com/2007/carville-times-and-post-2000-coverage-was-borderline-criminal

<snip>

Mr. Carville—who parlayed a key role in Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign into a near-constant presence as a Democratic political analyst on cable television—also offered some surprising, and characteristically colorful, insights into the current race. Asked whether Mr. Gore, in the wake of his Nobel Peace Prize win, might still jump into the fray, he observed that “running for president is like sex: you don’t do it once and forget about it.” Still, he said he thought Mr. Gore would run only if Barack Obama’s campaign collapses entirely—and perhaps not even then.

[Elspeth]

1. Ah, Snakehead returns

to slime another day

[movonne]

2. Who gives a fuck what he has to say....I can't stand this man and his

ugly wife..

[mod mom]

3. TPM: Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

I KNOW I KEEP REPEATING THIS BUT SOME FOLKS AREN'T AWARE OF THIS TRAITOR. WORTH AN ENTIRE READ!

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[karynnj]

11. The lack of outrage on this is stunning

and he is still an adviser to the Clintons.

To, me it opens the question of how much other pillow talk there was on Kerry's plans throughout the general election. Not to mention, he was horrible and never bothered to even try to learn or speak of Kerry's positions. As a key Democrat on TV this hurt.

[cuke]

12. Because it's faux outrage

Why would the Kerry campaign tell Carville about their top-secret plans?

The animosity between the Clinton camp and the Kerry camp is vast, if DU is to be believed. So why would Kerry tell someone with both close ties to his rival *and* is married to a repuke operative who works for Cheney?

You'd have to think Kerry was a real moron to believe that he wanted to keep this secret AND told Carville about it. I think it was a targeted leak.

[mod mom]

14. Not Kerry but someone within the campaign talked to carville who blabbed his big mouth to his horrid

wife.

[cuke]

15. OK, but that doesnt explain why anyone in the Kerry campaign told Carville

[mod mom]

18. Um.. carville is a Dem strategist (although DLC) It isn't too hard to believe he got

wind of insider information.

[cuke]

20. You can only get inside info from an insider

and you haven't explained why a "Kerry insider" would tell Carville.

[karynnj]

23. In the general election, the Kerry team included

Clinton people, like Lockhart and McCurry - not to suggest either of these were the one. Do you really think a Democrat would exclude all people linked to the last Democratic administration. The norm was to invite them in.

[cuke]

25. Why did Kerry include Clinton people?

It doesn't sound very wise of Kerry to do so.

"Do you really think a Democrat would exclude all people linked to the last Democratic administration. "

Clinton has a very loyal and competent staff. You don't see any leaks coming from her campaign. I am confident that they can handle most anything that comes up, and if they have to go outside for help, they will manage it in a way that the outsiders are not privy to critical confidential information.

[karynnj]

27. No primary team is biig enough to run the general election

HRC may be an exception, because it seems apparent that though not active as a team in 2002, 2004 and 2006 - there was in effect a shadow administration of Clinton people from Clinton's 8 years waiting for HRC in addition to her people.

The Kerry primary run from Nov/Dec until he got the nomination was very smooth and every bit as good as HRC's campaign. It was more impressive to me, as they succeeded without Kerry being either the party or media favorite. HRC was crowned as the heir as soon as Kerry lost. Kerry had a very loyal team what was called the Boston group - some have been with him since the 1970s (or in the case of Cam kerry and David Thorne much longer), but they had never run a general election.

Anyway that is not the point! The point is:

Why after Carville did this, does HRC keep him as an adviser?

If it'e true and she thinks it is reasonable for a Democrat to undercut the Democratic nominee, I have a problem. Do you think that either Gore or Kerry would have the lack of character to condone this if it were done by an associate of theirs to another nominee?

[cuke]

28. "HRC may be an exception"

because Hillary has the foresight and the judgement to prepare for the race. Wouldn't you like to see a Democrat with that sort of foresight in the White House?

Doesn't the fact that Kerry didnt or couldn't organize enough loyal support to carry him through a sign that he wasn't aware or what it would take to win the election?

And as far as HRC using Carville, why should she abandon a loyal supporter based on a story that comes from a man of such questionable credibility?

[karynnj]

31. No - because her husband was the F***ING president

It wasn't the lack of loyal support - he had that. What he didn't have was enough experienced people who had run a national campaign. Neither did BC in 1992, he took on many long term campaign people when he won the nomination.

Kerry came within 59,000 votes in Ohio to winning - in a year MS Hillary thought was not winnable. Imagine if people like Begala and Carville would have made an effort to help him. He did this with the media and large parts of the Catholic church against him. He is a better person than either of the Clintons will ever be.

I assume the man you are referring to is Woodward. the story was very prominent and Carville did not deny it to my knowledge.

[cuke]

34. Does Laura have a staff like Hillary?

I'm sure they're loyal, but are they the sort of "people who had run a national campaign" that Hillary has on her staff?

Do you think that *'s loyal staffers will work on a Laura Bush for president campaign?

Face it. Hillary is an extremely intelligent and competent woman who knows how politics work. That's why she has a loyal following. Kerry has been in DC politics a long time now. Much longer than Hillary has. More than enough time to build a loyal staff of his own. He chose not to.

Woodward is not to be trusted. He wrote one puff piece book about * and then later, when the public turned against *, he revealed negative info about * that he had witheld from his first book.

And I don't think Hillary ever denied killing Vince Foster. Maybe we should investigate that. Again

[karynnj]

39. Is Laura a second term Senator?

Kerry had enough of a loyal staff to win the nomination. No matter who would have won they would have taken people in from other teams.

I never said Hillary was not competent and extremely intelligent - as is anyone, including Senator Kerry, who gets to that level.

It is not those Characteristics that worry me about Hillary.

[cuke]

46. You make my point

We have had many First Ladies, but only one has managed to parley that into a Senatorship

[mod mom]

33. Hillary could have fought for Af Am voters who were disenfranchised in Ohio in '04

but she decided it was better to remain silent. Is this the foresight and judgement you infer that lead her to prepare for '08?

[cuke]

35. So could Kerry. So could Edwards

Biden, Kucinich, Dodd, etc

It applies to them too.

[mod mom]

41. KERRY WAS FED BAD INFO BY CARVILLE-EVERYONE (Biden Dodd-KUCINICH DID FIGHT!)

assumed the OHIO numbers were Legit. CARVILLE KNEW HE TOLD HIS WIFE AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THINGS CHANGED.

GO AHEAD-support these corporate opportunists, but Woodward provided the info on Carville and it HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED!

[cuke]

47. Shouting does nothing to enhance your argument

but does much to detract from it.

Let me know when you can discuss this civilly, like an adult

[mod mom]

32. Exactly. It could have been secondhand but it's not to difficult to believe this info

could have reached carville.

[cuke]

36. It is never difficult to believe something bad about Clinton

but the truth is, the only way to believe this is to believe Woodward, and he is not someone who can be trusted.

[mod mom]

43. 1. Why would Woodward make up sh#! about Carville? 2. Why never denied?

[cuke]

48. 1) Because he can. Because he doesn't like Hillary or Bill

because he doesnt like democrats.

The question isnt why should I not trust him? The question is why should I trust him? He's a proven liar, and friend of *

And Hillary has never denied killing Vince Foster. Maybe you should look into that

[mod mom]

53. Believe what you like-thanks for keeping this info kicked. It helps it reach

many more people.

why you want to defend carville who literally sleeps with the enemy and with Woodwards information cavorts with the enemy is beyond me., but I do appreciate you keeping this thread alive.

peace.

[cuke]

56. I don't believe what I like. I believe what the facts tell me

and the fact is that there is absolutely no supporting evidence for Bernstein's story.

[mod mom]

58. So WOODWARD just pulled it out of his butt and when it came out, carville decided

that since Woodward isn't a popular author and no one was watching the TV shows where it was discussed, it wasn't worth a breath to dispute it. OK...whatever. Let's hope those reading these posts will take the time to research carville. That's all I hope.

[cuke]

59. Umm, YEAH!!

Do you really think many people outside of DU are aware of this?

[riverdeep]

17. The animosity between the Gore camp and the Clinton (Hillary) camp

is also pretty high. This is what makes anything he says about Gore suspect. Or for that matter anything he says about the Dem party. He can feel free to talk all he wants about, say, NASCAR.

[cuke]

21. It's fine with me if you don't like Carville

I'm not so thrilled with him either. However, I was addressing the claim that Carville leaked a "secret". I have trouble with the whole story

[karynnj]

22. Kerry wouldn't tell Carville and no one ever said that

There were mnay Clinton people inside the Kerry campaign. After he won the nomination, as happens in every election, people from other candidates were brought in to fight the bigger general election. Prominent Clinton people in the campaign included Lockhart and McCurry. Kerry did not bring Carville in, but it was clear from Carville's words on tv that the Clinton people in the campaign were speaking to him, or rather whining to him.

Kerry had always been a good team player for Clinton - he defended him on the "draft dodging" accusation, and was an ally on letting gays serve in the military among other things - and for Gore. It would have seemed ridiculous if Kerry brought in none of the people from the last Democrat Presidency. As it was Carville and Begala spent most of August whining that Kerry wasn't listening to Clinton. Imagine what they would have said if Kerry excluded anyone linked to Clinton - starting with firing McAuliffe.

Until Woodward wrote this - and it has not been denied, the Kerry team may not have known how disloyal at least one Clinton person in the campaign was.

[cuke]

24. Why would Kerry allow Clinton people to have access to secrets?

Basically, you're saying that Kerry's people were unable to deal with the problem and chose people to help him who were not just disloyal, but outright hostile to his candidacy. That shows a lack of judgement on Kerry's part

[karynnj]

29. They were considered to be loyal Democrats

It certainly was not known when they joined the campaign that they were hostile to it. Maybe they expected a certain level of integrity.

The fact that you assume that Kerry should have assumed any Clinton person would sabatoge the campaign would fit my definition of paranoid - which Kerry isn't. If you as a Clinton admirer thinks this was the case, shouldn't you place most of the blame more on the sleasy Clinton person/people? They volunteered to be part of the campaign.

[cuke]

38. The hostility wasn't known?

DUers knew about it.

And if Kerry thought that every and any dem would be loyal to HIM, then he was very naive, and I don't think Kerry is naive.

"The fact that you assume that Kerry should have assumed any Clinton person would sabatoge the campaign would fit my definition of paranoid - which Kerry isn't."

Campaigns have traditionally been rife with leaks and moles. It is naive for ANY candidate to assume someone can be trusted with the highest secrets of a campaign merely because they belong to the same party.

[karynnj]

44. If it were the primaries, I would agree

In the general election, I expect any Democrat who signs on to the campaign, to work to the campaigns interest - even at the lowest level. I do not expect them to sabotage the campaign - that shows a complete lack of character. If they do not want to support the candidate, fine - sit it out or support a third party or Republican.

I have already realized that if Hillary is the candidate, it would be unethical for me to do phone banking or canvassing for her. A major issue in NJ is corruption - when phone banking for Menendez and Corzine, I was comfortable in dealing with that question - although barely at the end of the Corzine run. With Clinton I would not be believable - thus a very poor advocate. This is the very very lowest level and I think it would be unethical for me to waste their resources doing something that might not help and, if people picked up my reluctance could hurt.

[cuke]

49. Your expectations are irrelevant

What counts is reality. In the real world, one has to be naive to think that anyone with D after their name can be trusted.

[karynnj]

50. My expectations are not irrelevant to me

and if they are not met too many times, I will not support someone with values that offend me. Frankly, Carville, Penn, Berger, and Tsu seem to be defining a pattern I don't like.

[cuke]

51. They're irrelevant in the real world

and you can choose to vote for whomever you wish for whatever reasons you so choose. However, I think its foolish to base one's vote on anything a proven liar like Bernstein has said

[karynnj]

54. There are any number of things I base it on

and in fact you validated me opinion by your comments about the Clinton camp vs teh Kerry camp. While you of course meant it the opposite way - I found the more I read and heard Senator Kerry speak, the more I realized the type of integrity and character I looked for in a President. There is a difference between the two - and if there is a huge gap between them, I know the side I want to be on.

In terms of issues and character, she is near the bottom of my list. By the way, don't patronize me with the comment that my view of Clinton is based on just that - it isn't. A far bigger reason was her view that the Democrats shouldn't speak out on Iraq before the 2006 election. Her comments on Kerry/Feingold were awful - and ironic as she is practically repeating Kerry's words on the need for a deadline now - though of course never giving him any credit.

[cuke]

55. But you base your opinion about the Carville leak on only one thing

Bernstein's story

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support Bernstein's claim. But you believe it.

[karynnj]

60. I know there isn't

As it is a very damaging claim in a very mainstream book - not the National Enquirer. I expect that the master of the Clinton war machine would have deflected the story if it were a lie. He has let many months go by without saying anything. Gee, what would you say if someone let an attack go unanswered for nearly a year?

I do also have other reasons - that are provable - for thinking he is slime. The attacks on Dean in the weeks before and after the 2006 wins were despicable. Everyone should have been focused on the election - and Carville went to the media with a complaint that Dean refused to borrow money to give to the DCCC. Dean had done an excellent job and had earlier been criticised by Craville for putting money in states where we couldn't win. Some of those people who "couldn't win did. The attack in the wake of victory was equally bad. It was all an attempt to give all the credit to Schumer and Emanuel.

In 2004, I hated that he was the key proponent of ABB. AB(X) had always been primary terminology - for instance people now could say, we need an ABC candidate who all the people who don't want Clinton could agree on. I heard that with both Bill Clinton and Carter. Of course, it never worked because no remotely viable candidate ever pulls out to back another candidate to stop the front runner. Using it in the general election makes no sense. There are always people who would have preferred their first choice, but they don't go around diminishing the candidate by proclaiming they are ABX. I was for Tsongus in 1992 and thought Clinton unprincipled, but I never thought to tell people I was ABB. Carville was one of the few Democratic voices on cable - and he signalled there was nothing in John Kerry that he could see.

You may like Carville or just find him entertaining, I find him someone who makes our party look corrupt and valueless.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. My lack of outrage is due to the fact that I want another source besides Bob Woodward

[madokie]

4. the thought of carville with whatever the hell her name is, it plum escapes me right now

and sex all in one thought is a thought I wish I never had.

[Buzz Clik]

5. If I were in Carville's marital situation, I think I'd be singing a different tune:

"Look, sex isn't everything. And conversation is overrated. Sometimes it's nice to come home, find some quiet place all by myself, and watch football. Or porn."

[bryant69]

6. I like Carville, but he's pretty flawed

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[King Coal]

26. Are you casting the proverbial pretty flawed stone? Do you take testimony from this?

[Lex]

7. That appears to be one of his favorite lines

I've heard him say that before too.

[AndyA]

8. I stopped caring what Carville says a long time ago.

Just look at who he sleeps with. When you're that close to something that vile and nasty, it says a lot about you as well.

I can't stand the man, and I wish he'd shut the hell up and get a job in a circus as a side show, he's such a flim flam man, he'd be great in The Big Tent.

[burythehatchet]

9. Jim , when you talk about sex, a picture of a naked Mary Matalin

emerges. Please stop.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. yuch. that was my reaction.

gross.

[Totally Committed]

13. Eeeeeyyyyyeeeewwww . . . .

And, may I speak for the ladies when I say, the thought of a naked Carville ani't all that much better!

Blech......


TC

[Canuckistanian]

16. Become a DLC shill once and WE won't forget about it. n/t

[book_worm]

19. He's run for president twice ('88 and '00) and VP twice

He's entitled to not want to run if he doesn't want to.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

30. If as nothing more than a footnote

it's worth remembering that Carville also signed off on the "Geezuss, Mr. Judge, please don't send po' li'l Scooter to the Big House" letter that his wife crafted. The letter that talked about how their children just adored "Mr. Scooter" and how Irving Libby had once made Halloween costumes for the children down in the Vice Presidential bunker and therefore shouldn't do time for having lied to a grand jury about outing a covert CIA operative.

It was sickening then. It's sickening now. Carville lost my respect in that little missive.



Get On The H.O.R.N.!
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[librechik]

40. eeeeww--he has sex with Matalin

presumably.

[Ganja Ninja]

45. That's an image that could be used for birth control or

in lieu of a trip to the emergency room for erections lasting more than 4 hours.

[spanone]

42. this is from a man married to mary matalin.....sex??? god forbid

[OzarkDem]

52. Ick

My guess is he's as bad between the sheets as he is running campaigns.

[Evoman]

57. To Carville? Sex is like kissing an evil, icy snowman who can't enunciate

because its lips are frozen together. The only difference between the snowman and his wife is that she doesn't melt under the sun...you need to pour water on her to do that.