I seem to take a lot of heat around here for my

[cboy4]

numerous comments about how I hate hearing, "God Bless America" played during the 7th inning stretch at Major League Baseball games (as if the National Anthem isn't enough). The Pledge of Allegiance during pitching changes can't be far behind.

But Obama has helped me better articulate my position with his strong comments recently about why he doesn't wear a U.S. flag lapel pin. He explained that wearing the pin had come to seem like a "substitute for true patriotism." YES, so true.

And Bill Maher says, "...when I see the little flag right here, the first thing I think is, you voted for, and still like, George Bush..." YES, so true.

Both of those comments are the reasons why I don't like hearing "God Bless America" at a baseball game. It's as though unless you wear you patriotism on your sleeve, you're opposed to fighting terrorism or don't support the troops or don't love this country. And I don't hear God Bless America when it's played. I hear, "you're either with us or against us," and it infuriates me.

This is what bugs me about so many Democrats. They don't have the spine to say what Obama said. They're more afraid of being accused of not supporting the troops, or not supporting the war or terror (a phrase I also hate because it was manufactured by the GOP), or not being patriotic.

All of these reasons also explain why so many Democrats continue to fund the war or won't consider impeachment, etc. They're afraid the Republicans are going to call them names.

It's really time to pony up Democrats and stop being intimidated by the Republicans. You're in so many ways their puppets, and it's embarrassing and frustrating.

Let's start doing what we all worked so hard to get you into office to do last November. I'm tired of so much weakness.

And if you really feel you have to bow to peer pressure and wear an American flag pin, might I suggest a better choice. It's what I would wear:

[Ishoutandscream2]

1. Excellent rant.

Right there with ya.

[cboy4]

2. Go Cowboys.

;)

[Catshrink]

3. Nice -- where do we get them?

I have some rhinestone peace sign earrings I wear a lot -- but damn, it's my flag too. I hate having it "claimed" by the repukes.

[MaggieSwanson]

33. I got mine here...

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/pins.html

Peace,

Maggie

[cboy4]

36. Those are sweet pins! Thanks for posting the link! n/t

[Richard Steele]

4. K&R

[givemebackmycountry]

5. I'm with you 100%

I was at a baseball game this summer in KC and I stood with my head down for the National Anthem and this nut-job next to me asked me why I didn't have my hand over my heart during the anthem.

I replied with a friendly smile on my face that if he said another fucking word to me, my hand was going to be over his broken freaking nose.

Of course at 6'4" and about 260, I don't get many people wanting to tangle with me.
Anyway, I'm a pretty passive sort.
But, I have zero tolerance for fascist Bush loving scumbag assholes.

All this shit started in my hometown (NYC) after 9/11, when that right wing asshole Stienbrenner and his stupid sidekick Guliani had to roll that cop out every 7th inning so he could warble "God Bless America". It's taken on a life of it's own, but I have not seen it during the baseball playoffs this year have you?
I'll pay attention to the Boston vs Cleveland game tonight in Boston to see if they do it during the 7th inning stretch.

I can't remember if they are still doing it - I know I didn't see it during the Rockies game last night.
Maybe they are cutting to commercial?

I'm behind you in any event.
I ain't pledging shit to this country until we get these fuckers behind bars.

[immoderate]

12. The hand on heart thing is new!

It's considered proper to salute the flag during the pledge. Singing the anthem is done at attention. The hand on heart is part of our neo-Nazification.

--IMM

[hfojvt]

39. that does not seem accurate

here's the code, and its history of modification

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+36USC301

it says "hand over your heart" and I do not see any recent modifications, although I was not aware of any such code. One, I hardly ever attend sporting events and two, I probably just went with the crowd without giving it much thought.

[immoderate]

40. Sorry, your link doesn't work for me...

But I did a little looking. It seems that hand over heart is not correct for indoor singing of the anthem (as in school.) (And there is some ambiguity whether one is singing or just hearing the anthem.) That is my experience. Outdoors, it is proper to render hand over heart.

I take some solace in the fact that the flag code originated in 1923. So it's pretty new. :)

--IMM

[hfojvt]

38. so that was the answer you gave?

"Because I hate my country, I am a violent a$$hole, and I am a Democrat"

The premise of the OP does not make sense to me. Just because fake patriotism can substitute for the real thing, it does not follow that a real patriot should hate flag pins and patriotic songs.

Not everybody who loves the Anthem or wears a flag pin is a Bush supporter. Not everybody who loves Bush is a "fascist scumbag a$$hole".

[tanyev]

6. I've never understood why any sport events start off with the National Anthem.

:shrug:

[ourbluenation]

34. I like it. PLAAAAY BALLLLLLL! But I'm biased. My kid gets asked to sing it all the time.

:)

[cboy4]

35. Alright, well you get a pass in this case! n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. MOST excellent rant, my dear cboy4!

K&R

[Mark E. Smith]

8. You're obsessing with the trite

I'm sure Ann Coulter will appreciate your principled stand against "God Bless America."

[cboy4]

11. I don't think it's trite because I believe it gets to the

root cause, in many ways, as to why the Democrats haven't been more successful in stopping the war. I'm not arguing that they can necessarily stop it. But I don't see the effort.

And we all know how much I care about what Ann Coulter thinks. LOL.

[Bjornsdotter]

9. I'm right with you

...and I refuse to say the Pledge at any event, ever.

Cheers

[EVDebs]

10. The Red White and Blue are old Knights Templar colors for the three degrees

1st degree Entered Apprentice - White

2nd degree Fellowcraft- Blue

3rd degree Master- Red

These were the original KT degrees that ended up morphing into Freemasonry of today; the three degrees that the original Founding Fathers had; the other degrees were options added later on and are mostly metaphysical, added by Cavalier Ramsay and presumed Jesuit origination...possibly to embarrass the nascient Freemasonic movement that was anti-authoritarian (Catholic Church authority, 'divine' rights of kings, etc.). These guys just liked the freedom to ask questions.

It's strange that a group that originated out of the defeat of the Crusades in the Middle East would end up being champions of Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, and yet NOW in today's world, have their own hidden symbolism being used in another faux-Crusade in the Middle East but supporting NOT democracy but more repression in the name of OIL.

Democracy cannot be imposed from outside, it has to have supporters within willing to risk it all in order to obtain it for themselves and their neighbors.

John J. Robinson's books Born In Blood and Dungeon, Fire and Sword: The Knights Templar In The Crusades source for most of this along with my father's old Masonic Edition Bible.

[MNDemNY]

13. As a grade schooler...

i refused to stand and recite the "pledge of alegence"... when questioned as to why, I said, "because I do not"... The teacher was fine with that.... Oh the 60's education in Minnesota!!!!

(I still don't)

[Sparkly]

15. You rebel!

I remember having to do that EVERY morning in grade school, too. But it was even worse. In those days, every classroom had a piano in it, and I was already pretty skilled at a young age, so starting in 5th grade the teacher made me get up in front of the class and accompany a patriotic song of my choosing. I had my little repertoire that I rotated, and I had to announce it each day: "Today, we will sing 'Columbia the Gem of the Ocean,'" or whatever it was.

I was SOOO humiliated! But I was very obedient and did that for two years. :(

[Swamp Rat]

22. Me too, and no one could make me say it.

I still refuse to this day. :D

[Sparkly]

14. It's a shame

that they've usurped the flag as a party symbol.

I like your pin. I also like combining the American flag with anti-BushCo symbols or bumperstickers or pins etc. I think Democrats need to redefine what "patriotic" MEANS and what the American flag stands for -- or re-redefine it.

[bobbolink]

16. I'm of the generation that was affected deeply by "The Big Blue Marble"

Seeing flags everywhere, of whatever nation, is a hindrance in this era of global everything.

We MUST learn to leave some of our nationalism behind, and think in terms of what's good for the whole world, and Mother Earth!

Good rant, and I love your patriots for peace! :thumbsup:

[bahrbearian]

17. Patriotism is the Last Refuge of Scoundrels

[L0oniX]

30. Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.

Samuel Clemens ak: Mark Twain
- Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908

more:

Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood of his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"- with his mouth.
- "The Lowest Animal"

See: http://www.twainquotes.com/Patriotism.html

[jgraz]

18. If it makes you feel better we can just give you heat for backing a crappy football team.

Go Pack!

[cboy4]

23. LOL. And a crappy baseball team! Hopefully the Warriors

and the Sharks make up for all of my misery surrounding the Giants and 49ers.

[niyad]

19. Pledge of Allegiance to the Earth

The Pledge Allegiance to the Earth

: I pledge allegiance to the earth and all the life which it supports. One planet in our care, irreplaceable, with sustenance and respect for all

[niyad]

20. I don't attend sporting events, but would not stand for the pledge, won't say it, have

refused to say it for years, as my allegiance is not to nation states, but to the planet and Her inhabitants.

[graywarrior]

21. Ever since Viet Nam, I've had issues with patriotic songs at public events

Well, actually ever since I got thrown out of girlscouts.

[doublethink]

24. A few points ......

1. God doesn't Bless America "just because we say so", or it's sung in our Anthem, or is printed on our money. And People who believe this blasphemy are puting themselves above God. Yes there are a lot of Good and Righteous people in the USA, but man oh man our Country has it's history filled with injustices perpetrated upon the rest of the world in our name over the years. And in Gods name? I too have always had a problem with all the God references spewed about in this way. My athiest friends out there see eye to eye with me on this one. This shit has to stop. ;)

2. You also reminded me of what Wes Clark said at the 2004 Democratic National Convention ..... a shot snip here ....

War. War. I've been there. So has John Kerry. I've heard the thump of enemy mortars. I've seen the tracers fly. Bled on the battlefield. Recovered in hospitals. Received and obeyed orders. Sent men and women into battle. Awarded medals, comforted families, attended funerals.
And this soldier has news for you tonight. Anyone who tells you that one political party has a monopoly on the best defense of our nation is committing a fraud on the American people.
Franklin Roosevelt said it best. Franklin Roosevelt said: "Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth."
This hall, this Democratic Party are filled with veterans who have served under the American flag. And this is our flag. Right there, that flag, we saluted this flag. We rose up in the morning and stood reveille to this flag. We fought for that flag. We've seen brave men and women buried under that flag. That flag is ours, and nobody, nobody will take it away from us. -snip-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25727-2004Jul29.html

It's your right and duty as a Patriotic American to act and speak out on how you feel about these things. It Shows YOU CARE to take the time to be informed about your Country's actions and standing in the world. Never just accept meaningless slogans and gestures of so called 'patriotism' ..... especially when our reputation has been so severely damaged by the present administration.

Bet you have a problem with the little yellow ribbon 'support our troops' (made in China) magnetic bumper sticker ribbons too huh? Yea me too, but come to think of it I've been seeing less and less of them. Oh but that was 'yesterdays' meaningless empty gesture, make ME feel good moment Americans like to waste their 99 cents on now and then, fad call it what you like. Doubt I have to inform too many Du'ers the best way to support our troops huh? Get them home, re-deployed, give them the equipment they need, take WAY better care of our Veterans, on and on and on and on ......

Okay I could go on but I'll just K&R your post and salute you sir. We need more introspective patriotic Americans like you. :patriot: Peace.

[cboy4]

25. Awww, blush!

:patriot:

[eleny]

26. I like "Take me out to the ballgame"

"Take me out to the ball game,
Take me out with the crowd.
Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jack,
I don't care if I never get back,
Let me root, root, root for the home team,
If they don't win it's a shame.
For it's one, two, three strikes, you're out,
At the old ball game."

http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/ballgame.htm

[OneBlueSky]

27. "God Bless America" is an odious song . . .

that fosters American exceptionalism . . . Woody Guthrie hated it so much that he wrote a song in response to it -- "This Land Is Your Land" . . .

[Clark2008]

28. Unless you're in the military, you shouldn't be wearing the flag at all.

It's disrespectful... so says the U.S. Flag Code:

The flag should not be used as "wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery",<1> or for covering a speaker's desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general (exception for coffins). Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

...

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, firefighters, police officers, and members of patriotic organizations. (Note that on Army uniforms, where the flag is put on the sleeve of the uniform, the flag patch is displayed with the stars facing forward, in the direction the wearer is facing. This is done to give the impression of the flag flowing in the wind while being carried forward across the battlefield. This is known as the "Reverse Field Flag.") Flag lapel pins may also be worn.

When I was growing up, my grandparents used to sneer at anyone wearing flag attire because they were taught it was disrespectful. They're probably rolling over in their graves at all the wearing of flags since 9/11.

[hisownpetard]

29. As a Democrat, I refuse to play Pin the Tail on the Donkey! I think those pins should all

be melted down to make 'taps' for Bush and Cheney's shoes.
That way, whenever they're notified that another American has been killed in Iraq,
they can get up and play taps by doing a cute little dance. We can call it "The Blackwater Billionaire's Shuffle"
or the "Halliburton Hell-Yeah Hoochie-Koochie." While George and Dick play 'taps' with their fleet feet,
the arms and hands come forward and make grabbing motions, then get shoved into their pockets - deep,
deep, deep.

[cboy4]

31. Ughh, maybe I shouldn't be so hard on MLB considering

they just had an invocation before the start of this NASCAR thing on ABC. :puke:

Just for the record, I don't watch NASCAR (not that there's anything wrong with that in Seinfeld's voice)....I just hadn't changed the channel yet after the end of the USC game.

[WindRavenX]

32. right on

:thumbsup:

[Obamarama]

37. You took the words right out of my mouth cboy4. Bravo!

[immoderate]

41. God Bless America is a pop song...

Ironically, written by Irving Berlin, an atheist. As far as I can tell, there's no requirement for standing or saluting... ubless you're surrounded by red necks patriotic types.

--IMM

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. So you don't like it. Fine with me. What about the people who do? You'd take it away from them?

Is it the song you hate, or do you hate the people who sing it? Maybe you hate the people FOR singing the song?

During the Yankee playoff series, I was struck by the number of people who were singing along to "God Bless America". I even commented on it to my SO. She suggested that maybe it gave them a sense of unity in the face of some seriously fucked up events. My mind went immediately to thinking there was a huge number of people here on DU who would think them "good germans" for singing along with a patriotic song.

We've got to keep our eyes on the prize, and gain control of all three branches of govt. Only then will we be able to bring about the prohibition of public singing of all songs deemed to be "patriotic" by the Song Police. The obvious result of this would be prohibiting the singing of the "National Anthem" at sporting events. This would be a PERFECT first step toward banning all sporting events the majority "doesn't get".

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...

Might I suggest that the next time you hear "God Bless America" or the "National Anthem" sung at a sporting event of any kind, or anywhere else for that matter, that you silently imagine the crowd singing auf deutsch? Maybe that would help you push the hatred you'll be feeling at the moment to the back of your mind.

[cboy4]

43. Cherokeeprogressive, are you for real? Yours is one

of the most ridiculous, outrageous posts I've seen at DU in ages.

I mean it reads as though a crazy man composed it.

I know the Dodgers collapsed like a house of cards this year and you're despondent. But you should really cut down on the amount of psychedelic mushrooms you seemingly ingest because you're the only one in this thread who doesn't get it.

Jesus. :crazy: :crazy:

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. "And I don't hear God Bless America when it's played. I hear, "you're either with us or against us,"

You said that, not me. You also said that it infuriates you. Why would that be? Why would you be infuriated by a bunch of people singing the song? I can only surmise that you think it's inappropriate in ANY situation, which leads me to think that you'd be comfortable if it were never sung at all, in any circumstance. Banned even.

My pop served in the police action that we call the "Korean War". He's seen the best AND worst that this country has had to offer. Yet he's still so proud of his country that he gets teary eyed at a good rendition of the "National Anthem". Would you tell him to his face that his singing along with that song infuriates you? He might be old and decrepit, but I dare say you wouldn't.

I'm ridiculous and outrageous at times. More often than not actually. It's me. Call me crazy if it makes you feel good. That doesn't get under my skin at all, seeing as how we've never met, and probably never will. That said, I'd welcome you into my home no matter what our disagreement was, just as I'd welcome a lifelong friend. We can disagree about huge things and still be on the same side.

Yeah, there's the Dodger thing. I'm a loyal fan. As a kid I met all my Dodger heroes, from Walter Alston to Steve Garvey. I'm not despondent because if I were born in Arkansas, the Cubs would be my Mississippi. As long as there are Cubs fans, I'll always have someone to make fun of.

I cut down on the number of 'shrooms about 25 years ago. Cut that down to zero in fact. But, boy were those days FUN!

Peace. As I said a couple of paragraphs ago, we can disagree on HUGE issues and still be on the same side. And I'd bet that if we were lucky enough to sit and talk for a while, it would be obvious that we were definitely on the same side.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. The last time I actually went to a major league baseball game was probably the mid-1980s.

And I'm sure I was plastered and probably high as a kite to boot. I don't think they used to do that. I used to see games at wonderful Wrigley Field, so it was probably Harry Caray singing "Take me out to the Ballgame" or something or other.. although I was preferential to Jack Brickhouse anyway.

I don't know how you can even make it to the 7th inning, anymore, in the first place. I really liked the game when I was 10, but now... man... booooo-ring!