If Al Gore is So Smart... Explain Joe Lieberman to Me....

[QueenOfCalifornia]

Once again, tell me why? Why did he choose that horses ass as his running mate?

Don't get me wrong, I love Al Gore who was elected by a majority of the people but this is one thing that bugs the holy shit out of me.

[Horse with no Name]

1. His "advisors" and the "DLC" chose him

Probably the same advisors that are going around speaking anonymously about him.

[bryant69]

2. That kind of begs the question, doesn't it?

Why did Al let his advisers decide for him?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Horse with no Name]

3. I don't think Al knew that he was surrounded by Judas's n/t

[bryant69]

10. The false advisors theory - do you think that he would be liable to make the same mistakes again?

Or has he learned his lesson?

Bryant

[redqueen]

13. "false advisors"

What does that mean?

[bryant69]

33. Its a common theory in history that lets, historically speaking,

peasants excuse failings in the rulers by attributing them to the advisers. "If the king only knew the truth he'd fix these problems immediately." It shows up in fiction a lot as well. See for example the legend of Robin Hood.

In this case - relatively few of us were involved in the decision to select Lieberman (I would venture to guess that none of us fit in that category); we have no way of knowing how much of a role Gore played in it. So we craft a narrative of false advisers to have someone to blame for that blunder while letting our guy off the hook.

Bryant

[wuushew]

36. Uh...King John was not a good monarch

Don't you think his forced signing of the Magna Carta was due to legitimate grievances?

[bryant69]

40. No i don't - but there's a distinction between the legend and the reality

The legend of Robin Hood is this - the legitimate king, King Richard, is gone so an illegitimate king is on the throne (King John or Prince John) and does bad things. When the good king comes back, all is corrected - the problem isn't in the system - but in the bad man taking power. So long as you have legitimate kings everything will run great.

This leads to not questioning the system, but rather it supports the system.

Bryant.

[redqueen]

9. Let his advisers decide? WTF?

He got their advice, and listened.

IF he was to run again, I doubt he'd hire anyone from that group.

[Horse with no Name]

20. AND I doubt he would listen to anyone

He'd do it all his way this time.
Even how he was going to announce.

[LSK]

35. Hes a Human Being???

They make mistakes. Deal with being a human being please.

[bryant69]

43. I'm in total agreement with this. I don't see this as a blunder that makes me abandon him. n/t

[JuniperLea]

27. Bingo! ... eom

[Demit]

4. Forced on him. Lotta horse-trading & leveraging of power goes on at that juncture.

It's not a decision made by one man alone. Ronald Reagan had G.H.W. Bush forced on him. I forget who exactly it was, or maybe it was a group of honchos, but they said if you want our (powerful) support, take this guy. Don't, and we go elsewhere.

[Red Zelda]

5. Two words

Bill...Clinton. Joementum was a bone thrown to the morality police whose panties were in a bind over Clinton's behavior.
Hey - doesn't Joe look like that Star Wars emperor guy?

[Libby2]

50. That's how I see it too. n/t

[ellacott]

6. Kennedy got Johnson because they wanted the Southern vote

They didn't even like each other.

[JuniperLea]

31. That is the most memorable instance of this sort of thing...

Good call!

[lpbk2713]

7. Anybody can get bad advice.

His mistake was in listening to the wrong people.

[John Q. Citizen]

8. Simple and easy.

1.Gore needed Florida to win. Florida has the largest population of Jewish voters in the US outside of New York. Gore won Florida so it was a smart choice. (even if it was stolen away)

2.Clinton was caught with his pants down. Everybody knows Lieberman is a "sanctimonious prick." Lieberman was brought in to shore up the morally rigid.

It was a political decision and it was a smart decision, even though everybody knows Lieberman is a sanctimonious prick.

[radiclib]

46. Nailed it

Thanks :applause:

[lateo]

11. Gore didn't choose him.

The DLC did.

[book_worm]

17. then you are saying that Gore is a patsy

Cm'on Gore choose him--Gore wouldn't leave a major decision like VP to the DLC--he is not some kind of patsy.

[Horse with no Name]

23. He isn't a patsy

Balancing the ticket is generally done behind the scenes by the powerbrokers. It's typical business. However, I bet this time will be different.

[SOS]

12. Worst VP pick ever

Seven years later it's still incomprehensible.

[trumad]

14. It was the anit-Clinton strategy.

[book_worm]

15. To say that Gore's advisors choose Lieberman is a disservice to Al Gore

who has a mind of his own and wouldn't leave it up to his advisors to choose his VP. He choose Lieberman because "polls" showed that independent voters in particular had "Clinton Fatigue" and were tired of the endless scandals, so VP Gore decided to put some distance between himself and the Clinton's and choose somebody who came down hard on Clinton during "Monicagate" but didn't vote to remove him from office. Also somebody who was considered a "Mr. Clean". Thus Joe Lieberman. Plus he also did it for a historic first--the first Jew nominated by a major party for VP.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Because he was conservative.

When you're a liberal dem candidate you pick a conservative dem candidate, and vice versa.

It's called balancing the ticket.

Gore's smart enough to know that.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

22. That's some

balancing act -- There are plenty of middle of the road people who are not war mongering twits... At least I hope there are.

But I appreciate the answer because I really have a difficult time with this aspect of Gore....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Joe Lieberman wasn't war-mongering in 2000.

And if you blame Gore for that, you're doing some serious monday morning quarterbacking.

[Canuckistanian]

38. Didn't Lieberman have a fairly progressive voting record back then?

And notice I said "fairly".

I also heard he was too much of an insurance company whore for some people's tastes.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

39. What?

I am not blaming Gore for anything...

I realize that Lieberman could not have been pro Iraq invasion at the time however he was pretty damned supportive of Gulf War I

[LeftishBrit]

30. It wouldn't have been the first time

FDR chose Garner; JFK chose LBJ; Dukakis chose Bentsen. What seems unusual here is that a comparatively *liberal* Southerner chose a comparatively *conservative* Northerner - the other way around is probably commoner.

[napi21]

18. I think his advisors chose Joe to help secure Florida! n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. Lieberman was a stroke of tactical genius.

At the time, it was near-universally hailed as a good pick, and Al Gore's support increased significantly as a result of it.

Without Lieberman, Gore wouldn't have come even as close to winning as he did.

[wuushew]

25. How do you know that?

Perhaps at the time of the VP pick, but the performance given by Lieberman in the VP debates was the worst "debating" I have ever seen in my life.

Dick Cheney is pure evil, nobody should be deferential or even sympathetic to any of his views at all. It certainly didn't help independent voters looking for a difference in candidates.

[2Design]

37. bs

[2Design]

21. that made me sick the day it was announced

I didn't even know much about lieberman - but knew it was a mistake

[Sequoia]

24. The Jewish vote?

[book_worm]

42. The Dems traditionally get more than 70% of the Jewish vote

It's one of the most loyal constituencies the Dems have, along with African-Americans. But he may have wanted to make history by putting the first Jew on a major party ticket.

[L. Coyote]

47. Campaign contributions!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

48. Maybe

but isn't that marginalizing Jewish voters? Maybe some Jews vote for a candidate based on nothing more than their heritage. I wonder?

I may sound downright lame here but I am sort of confused. Do people really vote for a candidate based on their color, gender or religious beliefs?

[Sequoia]

49. No, for their "looks"

Just kidding. I was making a guess about the Jewish vote because I remember some of the talk going around at the time. But I wondered why Gore had picked Lamerman myself and felt it wasn't a wise choice.

[Schema Thing]

26. That always gives me a WTF moment too.

I'm pretty good about giving people the benefit of the doubt at first (embarrassingly, I even gave GW Bush a pass on his speech and mannerisms when he first came on my radar screen; I was fairly apolitical at the time).... but even I knew I was looking a the Devil's right hand Smarm-miester the first time I saw Lieberman interviewed.

[bullimiami]

29. i dont think anyone realized lieberman had this evil gremlin inside him back then.

i know i didnt.

[JuniperLea]

32. Since when does a candidate choose his own running mate?

I've never heard of such a thing. That's one of the oldest arguments in political history!

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. The MAIN reason? Because Lieberman went to the Senate floor and admonished Bill Clinton and Gore was

also angry that he was LIED TO by Bill about the blow-jobs. It was his way of distancing himself from Bill. That's it in a nutshell.

[WilliamPitt]

41. I'd have to explain 1999 to you.

It happened on a different planet.

[rox63]

44. Relations between the Clintons and the Gores were rather frosty at the time

Read this article: White House Civil War

[chaumont58]

45. When you finish explaining Holy Joe, explain Bob Shrum

His record at that point was 0 for 6.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. That's what I have problems with.

A good candidate can have a bad VP pushed on him by the powers that by, by political horsetrading. But he still chooses his own advisors, and he chose some who I've never understood. I've never liked the "winning is everything" mindset, but that doesn't mean you have to go out and deliberatly choose losers.

[sandrakae]

51. Everbody can have a bad day.

[Zandor]

53. To offset the 'Monica' syndrome, IMO

Lieberman was a vocal critic of Clinton/Lewinsky. He gave Gore some distance from that.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

56. But Lieberman's quotes about clinton

Did he have to come out and say:

"I was disappointed because the president of the United States had just confessed to engaging in an extramarital affair with a young woman in his employ and to willfully deceiving the nation about his conduct."

"I was personally angry because President Clinton had, by his disgraceful behavior, jeopardized his administration's historic record of accomplishment, much of which grew out of the principles and programs that he and I and many others had worked on together in the new Democratic movement,"

I mean, if he would just once say that Bush invading Iraq was based on anything but the truth - Maybe i wouldn't detest the guy so much

[Zandor]

58. Oh, I agree Lieberman was over the top on Clinton

and is a traitor to our party.

It's just an observation about Gore's thinking.

[DefenseLawyer]

54. Consultants are idiots

But if it is any consolation, I don't think many consultants would have told Mr. Gore to give the speech he did at Constitution Hall.

[Lucinda]

55. It was the old Joe L

before he was replaced with an alien look-a-like

[applegrove]

57. At the time Lieberman was a solid progressive and had not yet become a neocon.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

60. Solid progressive?

He has never been that. He has been a middle of the road republican though.

[michaelwb]

59. Easy

Joe-mentum