For American dentists, times have never been better. The same cannot be said for Americans’ teeth.

[BurtWorm]

From the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/business/11decay.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

With dentists’ fees rising far faster than inflation and more than 100 million people lacking dental insurance, the percentage of Americans with untreated cavities began rising this decade, reversing a half-century trend of improvement in dental health.

Previously unreleased figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that in 2003 and 2004, the most recent years with data available, 27 percent of children and 29 percent of adults had cavities going untreated. The level of untreated decay was the highest since the late 1980s and significantly higher than that found in a survey from 1999 to 2002.

For middle-class and wealthy Americans, straight white teeth are still a virtual birthright. And dentists say that a majority of people in this country receive high-quality care.

But many poor and lower-middle-class families do not receive adequate care, in part because most dentists want customers who can pay cash or have private insurance, and they do not accept Medicaid patients. As a result, publicly supported dental clinics have months-long waiting lists even for people who need major surgery for decayed teeth. At the pediatric clinic managed by the state-supported University of Florida dental school, for example, low-income children must wait six months for surgery.

In some cases, the results of poor dental care have been deadly. A child in Mississippi and another in Maryland died this year from infections caused by decayed teeth.

“Most dentists consider themselves to be in the business of dentistry rather than the practice of dentistry,” said Dr. David A. Nash, a professor of pediatric dentistry at the University of Kentucky. “I’m a cynic about my profession, but the data are there. It’s embarrassing.”

...

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. I like Dr. Nash - proper noun-verb combo for data. Good man!

[BurtWorm]

3. I'm glad someone got the point of this thread so quickly.

:toast:

[graywarrior]

2. And now since they know that decaying teeth can cause so many

other ailments, dental work really should be covered as a medical expense and paid for under Medicaid.

[bobbolink]

5. And who is going to push for that?

I don't see liberals particularly concerned...

[graywarrior]

7. That's why George Bush is there,

to keep our attention elsewhere.

[bobbolink]

11. Yeah, I know, I know.... everytning is *. It couldn't possibly be that liberals

don't give a shit.

Naw, that couldn't be it at all.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. Jeebus Christ!

Do you ever harp on Republicans?! If so, one would never know it....jeez.

[NMMNG]

36. Of course not

They wouldn't put up with that shit on their boards.

[ikojo]

48. I don't expect Republicans to care for poor and

lower middle class Americans, but it ticks me off royally when the alleged party of the people supports welfare "reform."

[bobbolink]

67. Exactly! It hurts to be injured by people you *know* don't care about you,

but it hurts MORe to be injured by people who *claim* to have your best interests at heart.

You are so very right, and it seems so elemental to me.

I can't understand why it's so hard to grasp the truth of what you're saying.

[pitohui]

15. SOME liberals don't give a shit -- it's a class issue

too many people are ready to judge you for having bad teeth and to use it as prime evidence that you must be a meth or crack smoker

who wants to help people they think of as pond scum?

one of the reasons i get pissed off everytime that "faces of meth" crap is promoted, plenty of those faces are just the faces of rural white hillbillies who have never had dental care, not necessarily meth at all, but everyone is lumped into one trashbin and then neatly disposed of

(i hope i can use the word hillbilly without giving offense being of hillbilly background myself)

[hedgehog]

23. Boy howdy, do you have that right!

It's one thing to post a picture of a right wing demonstrator, but it's another to point to bad teeth or obesity as evidence of poor intelligence!

[bobbolink]

68. I never thought "we" (liberals) would sink to that sort of thing, but there it is.

:(

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

65. Is that an accusation that is against DU rules?????

Back off the hate, buddy...

[KAZ]

19. Liberal politicians will give a shit when we give a shit.

Very few voters see the link between dental health, and what they eventually pay for their regular medical insurance. But it's there. They're going to pay for it regardless, and it's going to cost a lot more. Just like cost-shifting, and ER treatment as a first resort. We're already paying for it, so why not do it more efficiently. We're getting wise on the latter.

And BTW, why are you only screaming about Liberals?

[bobbolink]

66. It's hard to reply to you.

First, you are correct about WE must give a shit before the politicians do. That's exactly what I'm saying. When liberals start pushing for justice for all folk, it will start to come about.

"And BTW, why are you only screaming about Liberals?"

Then you turn around and add that bit of slam. In the first place, I wasn't "screaming". It's PAINFUL not being able to get the health care that is necessary. Understand?

IN the second place, poverty isn't a sexy issue with liberals. It HURTS being an afterthought.

You want to understand what I'm dealing with, or just confront me?

[KAZ]

75. I wasn't trying to slam you. When you throw out the "Liberals...

.. don't care" stuff, it feels kind of personal to me. I'm a Liberal, and have been fighting for Medicare-for-all since the late 80's/early 90s'. All of the cost shifting data that came out back then, was due to a system I wrote.

[bobbolink]

77. I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate your efforts.

Keep fighting the health care issue for all of us--it's much appreciated!

But, you can probably understand that, from my perspective, the liberals overall aren't doing too much, and poor folk like me are mostly invisible.

1. NO effort so far to overturn the cuts to Medicaid from the last session.

2. NO big push to create immediate, sorely needed housing for low-income folk.

3. NO effort to make the existing low-income housing accountable to the tenants.

4. NO big issue on DU about the recent passage of Frank's Housing Trust Fund bill, and activism to overcome the pending veto.

I could go on and on.... we are invisible to liberals-at-large, and it ain't changin'.

[KAZ]

9. This can't be emphasized too much.

I've had a mouthful of untreated problems since my teens. A full extraction recommended at 35, and I finally bit the bullet (gummed it actually) at 41. Besides the immediate, serious situations that arise from infections and so forth, there is a complete lifestyle change that takes place when you simply can't chew without extreme pain. I hadn't really eaten fruit, or fresh vegetables for decades. Bite an apple? Munch on a carrot? Not a chance.

In my book, dental health is the beginning of overall wellbeing.

We have a vocal DDS on DU, so I'm looking forward to reading their opinion on this.

K & R

[graywarrior]

10. Plus, you know a lot of people lose their teeth due to prescription drugs

like lithium and antidepressants which cause drymouth.

[KAZ]

20. It's a never-ending cycle, which makes it a big-Pharma

wet dream. You're Medicaid suggestion is spot on.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

53. A few medical types chimed in when I wrote this back in July...

I know exactly what you are going through. :hug:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1139497

[monmouth]

4. But I thought flouride in the water was going to resolve this problem...

[Faygo Kid]

8. Sapping our precious bodily fluids. . .

That's the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.

[Yael]

28. While causing fragile bones, osteoporosis and an outbreak of broken hips in the elderly

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln said the play was fabulous.

[LisaM]

6. Almost all of my out-of-pocket medical expenses are dental-related

And I need things done that the insurance company won't pay for.

[bobbolink]

14. Try living on $623 a month and getting dental "care"

Try it sometime.

Its not something that liberals give a thought to.

[KAZ]

21. WTF are you basing this "Liberals" diatribe on?

This is all you have posted throughout this thread. Is this some poll you read somewhere? I would think the majority of Liberals would support proper dental care being a part of any national health care system.

And I'm sorry for your situation. I'd like to change it.

[bobbolink]

63. "And I'm sorry for your situation. I'd like to change it." Thank you!

NOBODY should be going through what I'm going through.

As for liberals... if you were in my shoes, you would see what I'm talking about. I have been blown away by the callousness of some liberals, and the lack of interest in us poor folk. We simply aren't a "sexy" issue.

I know that most liberals now want to see themselves as on top of everything, but it just isn't true.

So, you can be mad at me or whatever, but I will continue to post from my *experience*.

I will say again, if you were on the receiving end of so much of what I get from "liberals", you would be hurt and discouraged, also.

You're welcome to walk in my shoes.

[PinkyisBlue]

25. I consider myself a liberal and I care about dental care for all people.

So don't say liberals don't care. That's a generalization that's not true.

[bobbolink]

64. It's more true than not.

You wouldn't believe the stuff that is said to me by "liberals".

As I said to the other poster, if you were to walk in my shoes, you'd be dismayed at the amount of ignorance.

So, you can choose to be angry with me for speaking my experience, or you can hear from those of us who have been walked on, and do what you can to change the attitudes.

[pitohui]

12. too many scams out there

thank god for mexico, at least i can get an honest dentist there, every time i try to get even simple teeth cleaning in louisiana i'm hit with a sales pitch for products and "services" i could not possibly afford, i'm done with it

from here on out, barring emergency, i will be getting my dental care outside the country, my experiences at home have been shitty, whereas my experiences in mexico have been good and at a price an honest person could actually pay without robbing banks

i never hear anyone say their dental insurance covers anything anyway, so i don't mind not having it, what i mind is the prices being unfair for treatments that i don't understand why or if they are necessary

[slackmaster]

17. Poor people in my area often go to Mexico for dental care

It costs a lot less, and the quality is high.

[graywarrior]

18. Costa Rica is another place you can get a lot done for a good price

[pitohui]

29. so they say and i don't doubt it but i can walk across the mexican border

hard to do that w. costa rica -- the flight is an additional expense and when money is tight, well, money is tight

but it will sure as heck be something i look at when hubby retires if we are able to relocate

(heh, obviously i don't walk to mexico from louisiana but i am frequently in texas or california for other reasons so that's why mexico works for me)

[slackmaster]

42. Costa Rica has one of the best health care systems in the world

My uncle was fortunate to be there when he had a heart attack about 10 years ago.

He got first-rate care.

[pitohui]

49. oh they have a great reputation

in fact when we were looking for a dentist we corresponded with a costa rican dentist trained at our lsu school of dentistry and with GREAT references but ultimately we just couldn't travel that far

[graywarrior]

54. You can vacation there for a week and get all your dental work done while your there.

[skids]

22. Huh. I was just mulling diarying about tooth decay at dkos.

What coincidence! This may be the missing item I need to complete that diary. Thanks for posting!

Who else here has been following how very close we are to being able to completely regrow teeth? And the vaccines against tooth decay are plodding through FDA testing. It would be enough to make me very optimistic, were it not for the very real possibility that the economy will collapse and the companies developing the technology go under.

[1monster]

24. I have dental insurance and I still cannot afford to get my teeth fixed...

I need a root canal which costs about $950. (This kills me because I had the tooth crowned ten or more years ago and the crown will be destroyed...another $750 to replace that). My insurance will pay 80% of the root canal (and 50% of the crown) which leaves me $190 to pay (and $375 for the crown). I can come up with the $190, BUT, the only endodonist in town policy is that I pay half up front, and he will reimburse me when my insurance pays him.

I cannot come up with $475. So, on two occasions, I've been able to get antibiotics when the tooth blew up. Once from a dentist, and once from an MD on a weekend. I don't know what I'll do the next time.

[dflprincess]

47. I've ranted about this before - but one of the big problems with dental insurance is the annual cap

which is usually $1,000 or $1,500. My periodontist told me that was the cap in the late 60s when dental insurance first started - and it went a heck of a lot further then.

BTW, I had a root canal done in a tooth that had a crown and the endodontist was able to go through the top of the crown and then patched the crown with a filling (it was in a molar, maybe that would make a difference). That was 5 or six years ago and I haven't had any more trouble with the tooth. Also, the endodontist only wanted the deductible up front and just assumed my insurance would cover the rest (it did). Any chance you can find another endodontist not too far away?

[ikojo]

50. I never had dental care as a kid, mom could not

afford it and it was not available at the clinic. The first time I went to the dentist was following a bicycle accident in 1982 when I lost part of a front tooth. A couple of years later I was able to get it kind of fixed courtesy of the dental plan I had at that job. The dental plan I have now sucks and doesn't cover much at all. Most of the stuff I'd need would be out of pocket and face it there is not much in my pockets at this time.

[hedgehog]

26. One piece of information missing from that article -

what does it cost to go to dental school, and who pays for it?



These are some of the issues that we will have to address as universal health care comes closer to reality.
- Ensure dental coverage

- ensure dentists get paid fairly

- ensure pediatricians, internists and family doctors get paid fairly.

Dentists, pediatricians, internists and family doctors get paid nowhere near what surgeons do, but they do the most to keep people healthy.

[knitter4democracy]

31. Very good point.

Dental schools are expensive, and the equipment even more so. We're friends with our dentist, and they're living as tightly as we are.

[mondo joe]

33. And make it possible for community health centers to pay a dentist a competetive wage.

[msongs]

27. ummm, try brushing and flossing at least once every day doh! nt

[pitohui]

30. everybody brushes and flosses, it simply doesn't work for people who plan to live above age 40

i can tell you have not seen a dentist in a while and karma's gonna get you for this post, your dentist will tell you that brushing/flossing is a good habit but it is no substitute for a deep professional cleaning by a hygienist at least every 6 months and depending on your mouth/heredity/health every 3 months

you're going to feel pretty silly you left this post in a few years

[KAZ]

35. Umm, works for some, not all. DOH!

Ever hear of heredity? I can almost assure you that I had the whitest, cleanest, most cavity-free (not a one), most brushed and flossed, antiseptic-rinsed, teeth, on the FUCKING PLANET. Sometimes, it just doesn't make a difference, pal.

Quite a tude, dude.

[devilgrrl]

55. This family I'm friends with has a hereditary condition that made their teeth rot.

They brushed and flossed.... Nada. All the kids had full dentures by their late teens.

Quite a 'tude indeed.

[Control-Z]

61. My mon's side of the family has

very poor teeth. My sister lucked out - has healthy strong teeth from my father. I got my mom's. While my mom and most of my aunts and uncles had dentures early in their twenties, expensive dentistry (well over $25,000.00 worth in the last 10 years) has kept me in the game. But it's a losing battle with dentists choose to allow problems to get worse, purposely misdiagnose, misinform, and pressure so they can fix bigger uninsured pricey problems. There is little recourse for dealing with criminal dentists. And what they do is criminal.

[w8liftinglady]

45. Doh!-I was born with very thin enamel.I brush and floss 2-3 times a day,and have terrible teeth.

as a nurse in a rural,low-income area,I have seen many people ill from decaying teeth.I had to postpone my car payment to fix my son's teeth-with dental insurance.Simplistic answers with no facts to back them up are non-productive.

[BurtWorm]

60. Let them use floss.

Homer Antoinette. D'oh!

[knitter4democracy]

32. We don't have dental.

Hubby's an internist, and the practice he works for doesn't offer it. He has a Bush-approved HSA (go to he**, Bush) that we can use for dental, but that's it. Our kids inherited Hubby's family's bad teeth (the dentist is talking braces already for our seven year old, and our son had a couple of molars come in without enamel all the way around), I have TMJ, and years without dental coverage left us with a few cavities to fix ourselves. We're helping with our dentist's house payments, I think. I tease him with that, anyways. ;)

[bonito]

34. K&R A BIG undressed ISSUE

:toast:

[bobbolink]

69. We need to start agitating for Dental Justice!

:toast:

but... "undressed issue".

Dang, is that prudishness, or do we need to take up a collection for some apparel?

:hi:

[bonito]

73. LOL.

I went back to late and couldn't edit it out, thanks!:hi:

[bobbolink]

76. Hey, if that's your worst "accident" ever, you're doing great!

I have a list of some really funny ones I've boo-boo'ed with.

~~gigglesnort~~

Yanno, sometimes we just need some humor breaks. Thanks for providing this one.

:hi:

[WilliamPitt]

37. Flamebait

:P

Olive Garden.

Nader.

End transmission.

[Gregorian]

40. Leave Britney alone!

Edit- Don't tazer me bro!

[Cobalt Violet]

38. I wish we did have dental therapists in this country.

The ADA needs to stop fight this.

[Wiley50]

39. The Article Gives the Impression that the Problem is Because Medicaid Won't Pay Enough. This is not

Accurate.

I'm on Tennessee Medicaid and they will not pay AT ALL for ANY dental treatment for adults.

They do have a minimal plan for children.

I have advanced gum disease and need a full extraction and dentures.

My MD can only fight the infections when they flare up, at least once a year.

These infections are LIFE THREATENING and are getting hard to knock back.

The anti-biotic he now has to use is very strong and makes me quite sick.

Something must be done.

Interesting that dentists pay has risen so much faster than inflation (per the article)

There's no greed like red, white and blue capitalist greed, no matter who suffers

'cause it definitely won't be the rich.

[KAZ]

43. Get em yanked, Wiley. It's tough the 1st few months, but it beats

filling yourself up with anti-bi's and Ibu's. Boy, when I think back, I was doing 15-20 Ibu's on the worst days. Thank God I don't drink. Um, wait a minute...Doh!

Look into implants if you don't smoke.

[earthboundmisfit]

62. But with Medicaid -

At least in Oklahoma, Medicaid won't even pay for a filling, much less implants - I don't think it covers extractions, either. Children's dental care is pretty much all covered with Medicaid, but adults get zilch.

[ikojo]

52. I have a friend from a wealthy family

who gets high quality dental care, at very low cost, because she knows a dentist. Class based connections work.

[bobbolink]

70. Absolutely! Dental care not covered, and it isn't something that liberals are fighting for.

It's just not seen as a problem.

:wtf:

And, no, the dentists I've known haven't been exactly what you'd call compassionate about this.

I'm sorry for your dental pain. That must be hell!

:hug:

[hedgehog]

41. ANother question the article didn't clarify is where dentists are making their money.

On the one hand, we have people unable to afford basic dental care. On the other, we have dentists building their practices around cosmetic procedures such as tooth whitening. Of course, we have people who never see a doctor and thousands of trained people doing breast implants and liposuctions!

[pitohui]

51. they are VERY heavily pushing these cosmetic procedures

my teeth are discolored because of antibiotics given in childhood, i get tired of hearing how i should this and i should that, let them pay for their new bmw with someone else's misfortune

[MLFerrell]

44. I haven't been to a dentist for years...

Can't afford it. No teeth cleaning, no replacement of fillings that have broken or fallen out, no nothing.

Who the hell can afford two hundred dollars (or more) to fix a tooth? Because I sure as hell can't...

[bobbolink]

71. We need to make sure that whatever health plan gets discussed after the election,

that it includes dental and vision!!

Here's to you.... :toast:

[quiet.american]

46. $7,500 worth of dental work this year -- this article hits home.

$7500 worth of dental work so far this year and I still have missing teeth, and am in for at least another $7500 worth of work next year. Even with great insurance, I'm still out of pocket a good $2,000 just for this year.

And why do I need all this work? No dental insurance for ten years and astronomical prices offered by NY dentists kept me away.

It's a win-win for them: Keep your prices sky-high so that only those with insurance need apply; then when those without insurance finally get some and make it through your door, they're in such bad shape, their mouth alone will buy you that new villa in Spain you've had your eye on.

[Arugula Latte]

56. Multi hundreds of billions for "contractors" & mercenaries -- jacksquat for teeth and health.

This country is starting to circle the drain at a rapid clip.

[Danmel]

57. I don't understand the disconnect

Between "Medical" care and "Dental" care. Why is the mouth treated so differently than any other part of your body? It shares the same bloodstream. It shares the same nervous system. Inflammation from gum disease has been linked to heart disease. It makes no sens. Someone should introduce legislation creating dental parity the way they have passed laws for Mental health parity.

[hedgehog]

58. Not to mention that if you can't chew, you generally will have lousy nutrition!

[lonestarnot]

59. and run to an early grave.

Joe Bannano died of implant infection in the Big House.

[Cetacea]

72. And they just love the mercury! n/t

[dysfunctional press]

74. high-fructose corn syrup.

'nuf said.