If every student, teacher, worker at that Cleveland HS were heavily armed today

[BOSSHOG]

the number of casualties would not have been five. We need to arm our kids FOR THEIR SAFETY' SAKE, just as we have to vote for republicans to restore honesty and integrity to our government.

I would do quite well in the party of cliche's and cute slogans but I have a brain and a heart.

Arm those kids NOW. Its a conservative value.

[devilgrrl]

1. I'd be able to sleep a little better if my niece were allowed to pack a Glock in her lunch box

I couldn't agree with you more!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. If everybody had guns, everybody would be fine.

Just like Iraq.

[flvegan]

3. A box of Black Talons in every stocking for Christmas.

Can you hold my books while I get my Mossberg out of my locker? Thanks.

[AnneD]

4. Uhhhh

the kids are better armed than the teachers these days.:spray:

[KG]

5. an AR-15 in every back-pack. it's the american way!

[TomInTib]

14. Nah..., the barrel is too long, it would be visible.

Give 'em one of these, it folds down to 20".

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/images/defense_police/5,56ar-sf.jpg

(I actually own this weapon)

In all seriousness, this crazy pandemic must stop. The schools have had their budgets stripped to the bone. That was one of the contributing factors in todays incident.

Why spend money on metal detectors when you can waste it on this insane No Child bullshit?

[rockyandmax]

16. I thought you implied in another post

that you were a convicted felon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2000817

and as such, you would not be allowed to own a gun like this.

[TomInTib]

24. It's not a crime until you get caught.

Besides the fact that everything I own is in my girlfriend's name.

I don't have much truck with "laws".

And any "crimes" that I may have been perceived as committing were victimless.

I am sure I have all kinds of crap that I am not supposed to possess.

As a matter of fact, some of it is in the briefcase at my feet. Same shit I did time for. Just about a thousand less pounds of it.

But I now live in a place where there is no way that local Law Enforcement will screw with me.

The Chief of Police and I are drinking buddies.

Heck, the cops even give me rides home when I am too wasted to walk up the hill. I just call the Station.

They like to take my weapons out to the Marin Sheriff's Dept range and play Rambo. Full auto and all.

Treat them right, they'll treat you right.

I have learned a lot over the years.

[AuntPatsy]

36. Youve just wet the appetite of those that love to tattle like little grade school children

[TomInTib]

37. You're not one of those are you, AuntPatsy?

Give 'em something to talk about instead of them going on about what candidate they hate today.

[AuntPatsy]

41. Those? I guess I just worry to much for durs after reading the hate directed

towards those of us on here simply based on our political leanings, not that I go over to the dark side often to read what they are saying, every once in a while simply to see if perhaps they have awoken from their deep mindnumbing state of ignorance but when I have read them, they seem to find amusent in reporting durs or anyone liberal to whomever they believe their master and lord to be in attempts to get durs in legal trouble, they have no scruples whatsover, honestly they remind me how the early nazis behaved, pretty sick.

Its happend already to some durs whom they made trouble for, I just didn't like that one response to your post by one with such a low post count seemingly pushing for more infor to see if your a felon or not..it bothered me for you is all, I like reading your posts,

[TomInTib]

47. Fuck it, right up front. I am a felon.

I did my time(s).

You see, I am a mulitiple-convicted felon.

I just thought that what the world really needed was more reefer.

Let them try and fuck with me.

Thank you for your concern, AuntPatsy, but I worry not about those pencil-dicks.

Tom

[AuntPatsy]

26. On a fishing trip huh?

[TomInTib]

48. Oh, and I thank you for your concern about my status and well-being.

Pleased to see you, hope you catch my name.

Glad you're tracking me.

Flattering.

Tom

[benEzra]

28. Possession of that gun in the United States would be an automatic 10-year Federal felony

outside of police/military/government duty. It's an NFA Title 2/Class III restricted automatic weapon and AFAIK has never been imported into the United States as a civilian-transferable weapon (pre-'86), meaning that no non-LEO civilian could legally take possession of one even with a BATFE Form 4. Even if it were not automatic, it would still be a 10-year felony to possess due to the less-than-16" barrel length, though you can still get a Form 4 for that.

So, it would be possible for a civilian to legally buy a non-automatic civilian gun that looks like that gun, if you first obtain a BATFE Form 4, but you'd have to jump through all the Federal hoops first. Or, you could get a Form 4, shell out $15,000 for a pre-'86 civilian transferable AK-47 or -74, and then legally shorten the barrel and have an expert tune the gas system to function with the shorter barrel.

[TomInTib]

55. If one....

wants to collect kick-ass weapons...

one cannot be too concerned with the details.

I know people who have shit that would blow you away if you knew (or maybe not).

Weed is illegal, too, you know.

Fuck the regs.

[TheModernTerrorist]

56. exactly

why fully fund the educational system to provide a safe, quality education that in and of itself would be a deterrent to crime by increasing child confidence, well-being, and happiness that would also identify any psychological or physiological problems when we can spend it on standardized testing, only to find out that we will LOSE it next year because kids aren't showing up to class on the head-count days that determine funding, all because we didn't fund education in the first place.

We need to make education worthwhile in this country if we want to stop this sort of thing from ever happening again. Sadly, I fear that many things will always remain for the worse here in the US. -_-"

[TomInTib]

57. Are you in Education?

Because you sure sound as if you are.

I am so glad that my sons are out of school.

[TheModernTerrorist]

75. sorta

I'm getting my second Bachelor's right now, then heading to Chicago for my Master's, or, if I'm lucky, my doctorate. I taught at a junior college for a semester, and have been a substitute teacher for over a year. I also work with special needs children, which is where my focus has been up until recently.

So, short answer, yes, I'm in teaching :)

[Speck Tater]

6. You're right. It would have been 35, not 5.

As everyone pulled out their guns and started blasting away. You thought Blackwater was bad news, think of totally untrained teenage boys suffering testosterone overdose waving guns around at each other and Blackwater looks like a Disney cartoon by comparison.

So let's give teenage kids the idea that they can blow away anybody who appears threatening to them, and empower them to make that judgment call regarding another person's life. "Whoa, dude. I thought he was like gay, and coming on to me so I blew his brains out. Chill, man, It was an honest mistake."

Right. Let's arm the kids. NOT!

[BOSSHOG]

10. I think Wal-Mart

should sell loaded handguns at the checkouts just in case someone pisses your NRA loving ass off in the parking lot. Hey, its in the constitution. We have the right to be armed and blow the fuck away any motherfucker who pisses us off. Just what the founding fathers intended.

[renie408]

34. See? More sarkazm. n/t

[Recursion]

46. Wal-Mart stopped selling handguns in the '90s

They still sell shotguns and rifles.

I'm no Wal-Mart fan. Hell, I hate the company. But I'm still not sure what it is about the idea of buying a gun in a Wal-Mart, as opposed to somewhere else, that seems to set people off so much. While in general I'm down with efforts to oppose Wal-Mart, why in particular should they be precluded from selling guns like any other merchant?

[renie408]

32. I think he was being sarkastick. n/t

[Bonhomme Richard]

7. Maybe just training in the use of Ninja stars.

[alteredstate]

8. k & r ---------ya'll are killing me....

[JackRiddler]

9. No, the number of casualties would have been closer to 50.

[BOSSHOG]

11. Was that not an awesomely craftily worded sentence I wove?

[karlrschneider]

13. You probably should leave satire to those who know how to do it.

...

[PassingFair]

18. I'm having risky, painful surgery to introduce a tiny derringer into my womb.

Nobody messes with the fetus! Nobody.

[slackmaster]

12. Not all people should be heavily armed

Only those who really want to be.

[NOLALady]

15. If every student, teacher, worker at that Cleveland HS were heavily armed today

there would have been a bloodbath of biblical proportions!

[HughMoran]

17. An Uzi fight at the local high school would be so cool!

Bullets ricocheting everywhere - woohoo - like a big ol' game of Russian Roulette.

[Recursion]

33. Well, leaving Uzi's out of it

Uzi's, being automatic weapons, are pretty much off the table for mass civilian ownership and have been since the 1930's (which was before Uzi's were even invented).

That said, doesn't this incident suggest to you at least the possibility that those of us who don't believe the police should be entirely able to outgun the citizenry may have a bit of a valid point?

[progpen]

19. Armed children? Yeeee Haaaa! You betcher britches!

And Bosshog, could I please steal your signature? I feel the exact same way about my time in.

[BOSSHOG]

73. Welcome Progpen

Knock yourself out with the sig line ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Hey bosh can I get an Abrams?

You know trafic rage in my tonw is getting bad

:-)

[Gregorian]

21. Hand grenade free for all! Yeehaw!

I say we hand them out during lunch break. Mashed potatoes, peas, and a HAND GRENADE.

Peace through violence. :)

[bvar22]

22. Good One, Boss.

Had me going at first.
Well Done!
:patriot:

[jgraz]

23. Shit dude, you had me going

After the VaTech flame wars, I realize that there's no limit to how far the gun nuts will go to push the NRA's agenda.

[aikoaiko]

25. or how about letting adults who meet their state's requirements for carrying a weapon

actually do so.


Liberty with responsibility -- Its a liberal value.

[ulysses]

27. not in a school.

Anyone who tells you that they can teach reading effectively while carrying a gun is lying. Besides, I wouldn't take the risk with someone else's child, and don't expect anyone else to take the risk with mine.

[Recursion]

30. I'm confused

Anyone who tells you that they can teach reading effectively while carrying a gun is lying.

Why do you say that? What is it about having a pistol in a shoulder holster that makes teaching reading impossible? I personally have only taught algebra while carrying a pistol, not reading, so I can't absolutely verify that it's possible, but it certainly didn't affect my algebra tutoring, so I don't see why it would affect reading any more.

Besides, I wouldn't take the risk with someone else's child, and don't expect anyone else to take the risk with mine.

Tough. Likely as not, you and your child are around people with concealed carry permits every day, if you live in a state that has such a law. You just don't know who they are (which is the whole point of the "concealed" bit). Here's a hint: we aren't the bible-thumping survivalists you might assume we are.

[ulysses]

82. and how well did your students learn algebra?

Did they feel more secure?

And yes, I'm aware that there are folks out there carrying guns I can't see. I live in Georgia, and have a loopy neighbor who pops squirrels with a .22 in his backyard, the very definition of futility. You can bet, however, that my son doesn't go outside while said neighbor is laying down covering fire, and that, if I ever find that he's in a classroom with someone carrying a gun, that situation will end, one way or another, within 24 hours.

[aikoaiko]

38. You sound like someone unaccustomed to carrying a concealed handgun -- its ok its not for everyone

But I assure you that carrying a concealed weapon does not diminish your pedagogical skills. You speak of the risk to children, but there is risk in not being able to protect are children.

I would happy to learn that some of my son's pre-school teachers had firearm licenses issued by my state and carry concealed guns.

[renie408]

62. Do you really think that the problem with school shootings is that there aren't ENOUGH guns...

in schools? Yes, I would say that the problem with the US today is we don't have ENOUGH people carrying guns.

There's a forward thinking solution. Arm everybody.

[aikoaiko]

72. Arm everybody? Who said that?

:shrug:

Gun-phobics people are hysterical. :bounce:

[ManiacJoe]

80. The problem is not the numbers, it is the who.

Currently, only the Bad Guys are allowed to bring guns into the schools by virtue of not obeying the laws. When the shooting starts, the Good Guys have no good way to defend themselves and their students.

If we are not going to disarm the Bad Guys at the door, it is immoral to disarm the Good Guys at the door without otherwise providing for their defense.

[ulysses]

81. "risk in not being able to protect are children"

Our. And what am I supposed to do if a crazed gunman drops by my classroom? I mean, I'm a decent shot, but I don't buy the idea that any teacher truly engaged in what they're hired to do would reliably be able to instantly shift modes from "educator" to "sniper", drop the markers and pencils, hide the kids, pull a gun, put aside the accumulated stress of the day and calmly "protect are children" without hitting one of them in the process. Besides which, I teach special education. The last thing I want on my person when I'm trying to separate two or more kids with behavior disorders - or when a child with autism has a meltdown and grabs at me - is a weapon.

Fucking stupid idea.

[ManiacJoe]

83. There is a difference between

an option and a requirement. No one is saying that all teachers should be armed. Obviously this would be bad for some. However, as a option, some teachers would find that it works well for them in their circumstances.

[ulysses]

85. I doubt it.

However, as a option, some teachers would find that it works well for them in their circumstances.

Probably not. I taught for three years in a neighborhood most wouldn't enter on a bet, and would never have wished for a gun there. There may be no more stupid idea current in America than allowing teachers to carry guns.

[ManiacJoe]

88. I agree that your situation was probably a bad one.

However, it does not hold as a blanket statement for all teachers in all situations. For example, almost all the teachers in my high school would have been fine candidates for concealed carry based on their situations at school, should they have chosen to do so. Whether it would have been a good psychological match is a different discussion.

[aikoaiko]

84. You're right, it is a fuckin stupid idea --- for someone like you...

Fortunately, others may be more competent at their job and CCW, simultaneously.

Thank you for pointing out my typo. It says a lot about you.

I now bow out of this thread.

[ulysses]

86. think of it as an awareness issue.

Anyone carrying a gun, to my mind, had better be aware of the state of that gun at all times. That's just common sense.

A teacher, to be effective, really needs to have his or her mind fully engaged in instruction, what's happening with the disruptive student behind his back, whether the student in front of her is really getting what's going on, what time it is, etc. You want to add awareness of a sidearm to that without impacting instruction? Please.

Thank you for pointing out my typo. It says a lot about you.

That I'm a teacher, maybe?

I now bow out of this thread.

We'll see.

[Recursion]

44. And let me make clear what irks me

Besides, I wouldn't take the risk with someone else's child, and don't expect anyone else to take the risk with mine.

What drives me up a wall is that people who will put their child in a car and drive on the roads to school will then freak out about the "risk" posed by someone having a concealed weapon. Then again, maybe they somehow think cars are safer than guns...

[renie408]

63. Yes, cars are safer than guns.

This is the kind of argument that drives me insane. OBVIOUSLY cars are safer than guns. The sole use of a gun is to inflict injury. Period. That is NOT the sole use of a car. Look, I don't want to prohibit your ability to feel good about yourself because you carry a gun, but don't say stuff like that. It isn't a compelling argument.

[Recursion]

71. but OBVIOUSLY they're not safer

I guess obviousness isn't universal. Take 2000:

There were ~282,000,000 people in the US. There were ~220,000,000 cars in the US. These caused ~42,000 deaths, for a rate of 0.00019 deaths per car.
There were ~200,000,000 guns in the US. These caused ~29,000 deaths, for a rate of 0.000145 deaths per gun.

So, a given gun is only 75% as likely to kill someone as a given car. That is why I call cars more dangerous.

I don't drive. I wish other people didn't too. That said, I don't engage in a culture war trying to ban cars, nor do I make unwarranted assumptions about the psychological makeup of people who do choose to drive ("the feeling of power you get driving your precious car", etc.), nor do I even demand that these killing machines be removed from schools (though I do think high school students in general should not drive -- that alone would make the car death rate plummet).

I do, however, get vexed that people think a person with a concealed carry permit is more dangerous than a person with a driver's license: the data simply don't back that up.

[ljm2002]

29. Presumably you are being sarcastic?

Because the way I see it, the number of casualties in any given incident might be smaller, or it might be larger: it all depends on how the deal goes down, and whether people make the right choices -- for example, what if an armed student from another class runs in and sees someone firing a weapon at someone, they might assume that is the perp when it was really someone defending against the perp. We already know that officers routinely make poor decisions about who or when to shoot; why does anyone assume that teachers or students will make better decisions?

Also, if everyone in school is armed -- or even, just make that most adults in school are armed -- I can guarantee you that the outcome will be more shooting incidents. Because even if the adults themselves never go bonkers (and you know that some of them will), even if all adults were completely trustworthy -- kids are smart. They will get hold of some of those stray guns. Oh, sure, the adults should keep an eye on their guns and never let them out of their sight. But in reality, a teacher will take off his jacket on a hot day, maybe make a trip to the rest room; or she will leave her purse hung up on the back of a chair in the break room while going to get a soda from the machine during lunch hour -- anyway the point is there are hundreds of scenarios where those guns will not always be watched as they should be, and the end result is more guns available to kids. Guaranteed there will be more shooting incidents in this scenario.

Now, should some adults in schools have guns? That is a debatable question -- certainly in our armed society, it's getting to the point where those who are in institutions like schools and cannot have arms, are just sitting ducks for the criminally insane. No easy answers here.

[Recursion]

31. I find the idea that cops are more trust-able with weapons than the rest of us odd...

...I mean, in most threads DU'ers will be happy to talk about how much cops suck and how you can't trust them, but once guns enter into the picture, these are somehow the only Solons wise and cool enough to be trusted with them?

A lot of people overestimate the amount of training most cops get with their weapons. For the average beat cop in the average underfunded precinct, it's less than most concealed-carry permit holders are required to get. And while I'm not anti-cop, I find the idea that these guys are the only people who can be trusted with implements of deadly force to be risible.

[ljm2002]

42. Care to respond to the actual points in my post?

Hint: Nowhere do I state OR imply that police are more trustworthy with guns. See, cops can and do make the same mistakes that I outlined -- they also can mis-identify the perp, or over-react, whatever. But with schools full of armed teachers and/or students, well, there are yet more people who may exhibit bad judgment and who are armed and may end up doing something they regret -- and that's just the well-meaning ones. What about the disturbed teenagers who lie in wait to get their hands on one of those guns floating around the school -- you think there would not be incidents because of that? And before you answer that they would not do it, because everyone else is armed, think about how many cases of "suicide-by-cop" we see now -- you gotta figure there are kids who would be willing to go out in a blaze of glory, and we've seen it happen.

Now as I pointed out in my original post, the flip side is that making sure everyone at school is unarmed, including the teachers, makes them sitting ducks in a way -- targets for troubled people who can get their hands on weapons, and know there are a lot of unarmed people there who can be targeted and terrorized.

Got any easy answers? I don't.

[Recursion]

43. Sorry, I was trying to outline the lack of easy answers

I was concentrating on how "have police or armed guards in otherwise-unarmed schools" wasn't really a good idea from my point of view. Personally I think the least bad answer is to let people who are qualified to carry weapons do so if they wish, whether they are LEOs or civilians. But obviously that has a downside too, though not nearly as much of one (IMO) as some people seem to think.

[ljm2002]

49. Thanks for the reply...

...sorry for getting testy. I guess this topic tends to bring it out in people, myself included.

Agreed though, no easy answers. The thought of a bunch of high school kids with access to guns in school -- well, people talk about Israel and Switzerland and what have you, but our culture is not their culture. Our culture really does glorify violence. And it is not just in our entertainment industry; just look back on the media coverage before and after Shock and Awe, for a case in point.

[Recursion]

54. I suggest, tactfully, that at many schools...

... a couple of teachers having weapons would not greatly affect the total amount of weapons already in the school.

[BOSSHOG]

74. Why

do we live in an armed society? And why do the criminally insane have access to weapons (as was the case in the Cleveland shootings?) Could it be that there is an element, dare I say a lobbying group in this country that thinks its just cool as shit to have mass numbers of weapons manufactured and available to one and all. And said lobby has such a mindset that if anything goes askew (refer to the most recent example, Cleveland) they just throw up their hands, as if on cue, and say its not their fault; that their efforts to ensure millions of guns make us an armed society for no apparent reason has absolutely nothing to do with gun violence? Not taking responsibility is part of their value system.

[AZ Criminal JD]

35. Apparently none of the posters have been to Israel

I have, teenagers carrying around rifles and other guns, to school. No problems. One poster said people can't be educated with guns around. Children in Israel score far above American kids in tests. So that argument goes down in flames.

[Recursion]

45. Don't forget Switzerland

High test scores, low crime, universal gun ownership.

America will be a violent society whether or not we have legal access to guns. Switzerland will be a peaceful society whether or not they continue to be required to maintain guns. My party needs to stop confusing the symptom for the disease.

[Heidi]

58. "Universal" gun ownership here in Switzerland is a myth

derived from the fact the military service is compulsory for men and members of the Swiss military are required to keep their service weapons at home. However, conscientious objectors may opt for civil service: no service weapon kept at home. Also, women are exempt from compulsory military service: no service weapon kept at home.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm


Switzerland keeps only a small standing army, and relies much more heavily on its militia system for national defense. This means that most able-bodied civilian men of military age keep weapons at home in case of a national emergency. These weapons are fully automatic, military assault rifles, and by law they must be kept locked up. Their issue of 72 rounds of ammunition must be sealed, and it is strictly accounted for. This complicates their use for criminal purposes, in that they are difficult to conceal, and their use will be eventually discovered by the authorities.

Only 14 percent of Swiss households have a handgun.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-switzerland.htm

[renie408]

65. Google is your friend. Memes, bad. Google, good.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-switzerland.htm


And exactly WHO in your party is trying to do anything about your goddam guns?


BTW...if we have a violent society, don't you think it might be a good idea to limit its access to guns? Of course you don't. You think the SMART idea is to arm EVERYBODY in that violent society. Makes sense, huh?

[Recursion]

87. I've lived in Switzerland

Merlingen (sp?) for a year when I was a kid. I saw an assload of guns there.

You're right, though, that it's not common to see handguns, just assault rifles.

You want to move the party's direction away from regulating rifles and towards regulating handguns? I and a lot of "gun nuts" would be a lot more amenable to that.

[Danger Mouse]

51. America is not Israel. There are significant cultural differences.

I knew some macho dickheads in high school who i'd say the last thing I'd want them near was a loaded weapon.

[Quantess]

60. Probably not many of them have.

But remember, Israeli teenagers live in a different culture altogether.
When did you last spend time at an American high school? I'm guessing not since you were a student, yourself, am I correct? At the time, you thought you were mature enough to pack a gun (and maybe you were), but think of the kids in your school who had anger issues, were immature, the angry silent loners...would you really want them to be armed?

[renie408]

64. And who wants to live in Israel? n/t

[slackmaster]

67. I'm sure those schools also have robust security measures in place

Like locked gates and guards to ensure that only people who are authorized to be there can get in without suffering heavy casualties.

[renie408]

68. BTW...when you find yourself agreeing with Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh

you might want to reexamine your position. Or are you going to say, "Hey, Glenn and Rush aren't ALL bad."

[Beausoir]

39. On this, I agree with you. When will the madness stop? Kids with guns killing children.

Fuck the NRA. They are directly responsible for the deaths of children.

[LWolf]

40. The number of casualties would not have been 5.

It would have been higher.

Instead of arming the world and living in a constant state of fear, I suggest we pull in our wide reach, and reach out to all people within our borders, to all communities, with a full, resilient, roomy safety net, and focus our attention for at least a generation on providing universal health care, including mental health care, jobs, housing, transportation, heating, and intensive, small-school, small-class well-supported education.

I bet we'd spot potential shooters soon enough to prevent such incidents, which is a hell of a lot better than trying to teach or learn in an armed camp.

I "got" the sarcasm. Teaching public school, though, makes me perhaps more touchy. :hi:

[renie408]

66. I am so SICK of end based "thinking".

We can't do what you suggest because that would require people to actually THINK about what causes the problem, instead of SIMPLY reacting to the results of the problem.

[LWolf]

70. Of course. Simple, isn't it? n/t

[Danger Mouse]

50. sadly, i think some duer's would agree with you...

all kidding and sarcasm aside.

[rucky]

52. Hey, Kids! ...

[KitchenWitch]

53. I plan on giving my 6 year old her first AK-47 for Christmas

It is the Christian thing to do.

[PretzelWarrior]

59. imagine a world where students and teachers shoot--ask questions never.

it will be the same Dogma by rote every single year, but if somebody does something suspicious on campus like be a person of color, the citizen militia will be there ever vigilant ready to unload a few clips of ammo into their sorry unAmerican ass.

[K8-EEE]

61. Kids carrying guns to school every day. THAT will solve everything.

Funny how all over the world people manage to attend school without being lethally armed. But not here. USA! USA!

I notice how all those guns in Baghdad have made it super-safe!

[B Calm]

69. Actually the right to own a gun is a very liberal idea. I think

we need to focus more on teaching our kids what is right and wrong. We're all born with a moral compass, so it shouldn't be that hard of a task.

[eppur_se_muova]

76. "We're all born with a moral compass?" Counterexample: Cheney.

If he has any kind of compass, it points in a different direction from the rest of us.

[pitohui]

77. well, if they had all been heavily armed, the movie would have been a lot better!

as it was, this won't even make the top 10 of school shootings and there won't be any hollywood, at best, they'll have youtube

:-)

i know, i'm evil to joke around but sometimes if you don't laugh you'd cry

[RB TexLa]

78. I often have a gun in the vehicle, doesn't mean I'm going to intervene in a situation where people

are being shot by someone. Gas pedal works just fine.

[ManiacJoe]

79. That is just good tactics.

However, the real question is: Would you use your gun to defend the occupants of your car while you are boxed in at a red light?