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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:14 PM Original message |
Japan had been trying to surrender for months, if not for years; rebuffed by US --- |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:23 PM Response to Original message |
1. You know, I had a thought about that |
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wuushew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Yes exactly! Unconditional surrender on both fronts was ludicrous |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:32 PM Original message |
Clearly we should have allowed the Third Reich to remain in power, yes. nt |
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soothsayer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:33 PM Response to Original message |
7. Wow,"So you're saying you'd be ok if Saddam was in power??" lol |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:40 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. It would be okay for Saddam to have remained in power. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:39 PM Response to Reply #14 |
104. The Soviet Union would not have allowed this. But we ALSO did not drop an A-bomb on Germany. |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:42 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Well, in the "negotiated peace" he's talking about, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:36 PM Response to Original message |
9. If you know anything about "Operation Paperclip" and where America is now, Nazis rule here !!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:42 PM Response to Reply #9 |
15. Thank God they were, yes. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:47 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. Allen Dulles set up the CIA using NAZIS and they were also put into the FBI --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:48 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. Yes, those scientists were working with the Nazi party, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:52 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. No -- Allen Dulles brought NAZIS to America to help us out . . .. !!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:54 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Yes, to help us build rockets. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:04 PM Response to Reply #27 |
37. actually, we got a lot more than just rockets from the Nazis |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. Yes, we did. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:21 PM Response to Reply #44 |
53. sorry, I had not realized how superior you are |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:23 PM Response to Reply #53 |
57. That would be in contrast to |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:41 PM Response to Reply #57 |
105. Well, thank goodness we needed NAZIS and WAR CRIMINALS to forge ahead in rocketry! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:44 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. They weren't war criminals, and most of them weren't ideological Nazis. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:52 PM Response to Reply #108 |
114. I used to worship Wernher von Braun as the Father of our space program, so I do "get it". Still, |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:00 PM Response to Reply #114 |
116. And WvB claims he was forced to join the NSDAP by his superiors. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:26 PM Response to Reply #37 |
63. And we learned those things and used that information depite Nuremberg dictates --- |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:35 PM Response to Reply #63 |
73. based on many things, I would say that information is not widely known |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #73 |
79. I can only hope that Americans are waking up -- and that the internet is educating us all . . . |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:22 PM Response to Reply #27 |
56. Operation Paperclip was foremost about moving NAZI intelligence figures into America + CIA --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:24 PM Response to Reply #56 |
59. Yes, intelligence figures who were knowledgeable about |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:26 PM Response to Reply #59 |
65. Oh, yeah, we told them to stop being NAZIS . . . but, then again, Dulles was one -- !!!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Allen Dulles was a Nazi now? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:38 PM Response to Reply #68 |
76. Good lord . . . what is it that you read, or what you know, that you don't know that???? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:43 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. It's fun when you don't have to back up anything you say! |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:02 PM Response to Reply #78 |
85. Seriously, google Allen Dulles + Prescott Bush + Sullivan + Cromwell, the law firm . . . |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:38 PM Response to Reply #85 |
93. I found unsourced conspiracy sites. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:17 PM Response to Reply #93 |
120. Well, then, lay there and maybe someone will spoon-feed you some info ---!!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:18 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Please do. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:26 PM Response to Reply #121 |
125. Maybe someone else will take pity on you --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:49 AM Response to Reply #125 |
140. I suppose that's a nice way of saying, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:05 PM Response to Reply #140 |
154. It's a nice way of saying that evidently you can't even find the info ... |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:09 PM Response to Reply #154 |
155. Yeah. The information I found was completely unsourced. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:30 PM Response to Reply #155 |
158. Look above the comments you just made . . . people are offering you help . . . |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:32 PM Response to Reply #158 |
159. One of the funniest things I've ever heard: you can find links between Bush + Nazis on the web !!!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:41 PM Response to Reply #158 |
160. Let me reiterate: I want verifiable articles, pointing to primary sources I can look up, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:48 PM Response to Reply #160 |
161. No -- you're wasting everyone's time . . .. move on --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:50 PM Response to Reply #161 |
162. So you're back to "I've got nothing" then. nt |
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leftist_not_liberal (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:25 PM Response to Reply #78 |
92. the real story of treason by the Dulles brothers |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:21 PM Response to Reply #92 |
124. An interesting part of the story, but doesn't include Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush or confiscation |
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leftist_not_liberal (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:37 PM Response to Reply #124 |
128. That online ~700 pg book is not Bush-centric |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 08:48 PM Response to Reply #128 |
129. I'm familiar with the broad outlines of it and a bit more . . .. lots of reading there--!!! |
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unc70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:17 AM Response to Reply #56 |
135. I worked with Paperclip scientists and you are clueless. OTH Gehlen was evil. |
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wuushew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:39 PM Response to Original message |
11. Did you read the link? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:44 PM Response to Reply #11 |
17. Yes, with a return to Sep. 1, 1939 borders, |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:58 PM Response to Original message |
29. The Third Reich was in Japan now? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:59 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Perhaps you would consider reading the post I was replying to. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:07 PM Response to Reply #30 |
40. I did read it |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:15 PM Response to Reply #40 |
47. And I was replying to a post talking about Germany, with a link about the Eastern Front. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:18 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. well, I read them in order, and there is something screwy with the |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:21 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. Yeah, it says "original post" there. Very strange. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:22 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. it is |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:25 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. All right, kiss-and-make up time |
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tuckessee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:31 PM Response to Original message |
175. Unconditional surrender kept the Nazis in power. |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:43 PM Response to Reply #2 |
16. Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were entirely undeserving of conditional surrender. |
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Johonny (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:26 PM Response to Reply #16 |
61. I agree |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 02:46 AM Response to Reply #16 |
138. After Pearl Harbor and the story of Bataan, no chance in hell of US accepting conditional surrender |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:03 PM Response to Reply #2 |
35. Unconditional surrender is the only way that we were able to have allies |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Agree -- though . . . |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:34 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. By Russia I assume you mean Stalin's Soviet Union? n/t |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:38 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. I believe we used to refer to them as our "Russian allies" . . . did you have a comment? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:47 PM Response to Reply #10 |
20. They ceased to be anything of the sort |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:04 PM Response to Reply #20 |
36. You're denying they were our "Russian allies" --- ???? |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:47 PM Response to Reply #10 |
21. No - just suggesting there might be a reason we downplayed our alliance with Stalins Soviet Union nt |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:06 PM Response to Reply #21 |
39. You're denying they were our "Russian allies" --- ???? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:08 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. I am stating that they were our allies, and ceased to be so |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:35 PM Response to Reply #42 |
74. We know what happened AFTER . .. . the COLD WAR began . . . |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:58 PM Response to Reply #74 |
83. Actually, we're talking about how they were "quickly dropped as an ally," |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:24 PM Response to Reply #83 |
91. We're talking about atomic weapons and the desire of fascists to use them --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:42 PM Response to Reply #91 |
96. Posting while high kills, dude. n/t |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:10 PM Response to Reply #96 |
117. Well, then, you shouldn't do it --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:13 PM Response to Reply #117 |
157. I'm serious. |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:31 PM Response to Original message |
3. Yes, a conditional peace. |
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soothsayer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:32 PM Response to Original message |
5. Tora! Tora! Tora! was on the other day. what a great film! |
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Sequoia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:50 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. I'd have to say it's my favorite WWII movie. |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:33 PM Response to Original message |
6. What kind of restraint did the Japenese show before they started losing the war? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:40 PM Response to Reply #6 |
12. Try reading what Eisenhower is saying here . . .BEFORE we dropped the Atomic bombs --- |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:46 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. Apparently Roosevelt felt differently than Eisenhower |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:56 PM Response to Reply #18 |
28. FDR was dead before the question arose . . . he thought Germany was building an atomic weapon --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:01 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. So where does the CIA plan for secret Nazi control come in? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:20 PM Response to Reply #32 |
52. Allen Dulles founded the CIA using Nazi intelligence figures --- |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:48 PM Response to Reply #12 |
22. How can you morally justify showing militarist Japan any sort of negotiated "mercy"? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:00 PM Response to Reply #22 |
31. What is the US doing today in showing "no mercy" -- ??? |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:02 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. Answer the question. It has nothing to do with Iraq today. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:17 PM Response to Reply #34 |
49. Part II -- MERCY certainly does have something to do with Iraq today . . .. |
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wuushew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:05 PM Response to Reply #22 |
38. Baloney |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. I suggest you review what the Japanese did to China and Korea. |
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wuushew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:15 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. Why would the Japanese still be in mainland Asia? |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:23 PM Response to Reply #48 |
58. Japanese were not evicted from mainland Asia during the war. So, let them keep it, or not? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:32 PM Original message |
Maybe you should read what we did in Korea --? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:34 PM Response to Original message |
72. The fact that you would even attempt to legitimize what the Japanese did |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:36 PM Response to Reply #72 |
75. The fact that you would try to legitimize American TORTURE is revolting -- !!! |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:42 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. We're not talking about American torture. We're talking about allowing the Japanese in WW2 |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:15 PM Response to Reply #77 |
87. You're either for Torture or not -- country of origin doesn't matter --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:39 PM Response to Reply #87 |
94. I'm obviously not for American torture. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:33 PM Response to Reply #94 |
126. It doesn't mean that I'm in favor of anything you're suggesting either --- |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:54 PM Response to Reply #72 |
81. Revolting but completely unsurprising. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:17 PM Response to Reply #81 |
88. The premise of this thread is obviously something that you want to ignore --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:41 PM Response to Reply #88 |
95. No, you git, the premise of this thread |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:12 PM Response to Reply #95 |
118. No -- the subject is that Japan was defeated -- and was seeking to surrender --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:51 AM Response to Reply #118 |
141. The problem was that Japan was NOT SEEKING TO SURRENDER. |
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SidDithers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:42 PM Response to Reply #95 |
152. "git" is such a wonderful, and underused, descriptor... |
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amandabeech (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:18 PM Response to Reply #41 |
89. I'd suggest that the Japanese behaved the same wherever they went. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #38 |
45. Correct -- !!! and recently the USA was moving to re-arm Japan -- !!!! |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:09 PM Response to Reply #22 |
43. I didn't make the suggestion; military leaders did . . .. |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:18 PM Response to Reply #6 |
90. So you're arguing the bombing was revenge. |
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cobalt1999 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:40 PM Response to Original message |
13. Surrender is the wrong word. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 03:49 PM Response to Original message |
24. Hey, you can't post stuff like this in the fall |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:02 PM Response to Original message |
33. Yep. Careful scholarship shows that it was done to keep Stalin out of Japan... |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:13 PM Response to Reply #33 |
46. Once they invented nuclear weapons only COLD WAR was possible ---- |
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nealmhughes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:32 PM Response to Reply #33 |
71. Yep, the agreeement was: USSR declares war on Japan within 90 days after VE Day. |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:20 PM Response to Original message |
51. You know, it's amazing how many people will defend the indefensible |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:26 PM Response to Reply #51 |
62. But..but...they did it first...we wuz just getting back.... |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:27 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Certainly it is. |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. See post #33 above. It was done for geopolitical reasons. n/t |
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Riktor (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:52 PM Response to Reply #66 |
80. That is debateable |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:54 PM Response to Reply #80 |
82. Certainly I believe that was a concern. |
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Riktor (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:09 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Agreed |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:47 PM Response to Reply #86 |
97. Retribution was a big part of the decision in this way: |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 05:53 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. I really haven't read anything |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:03 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. That still begs the question: Would Japan have surrendered without.. |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:06 PM Response to Reply #99 |
101. Probably so. The flipside to that is, |
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Riktor (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:08 PM Response to Reply #99 |
102. In my humble opinion, you are correct |
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Riktor (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:04 PM Response to Reply #97 |
100. But it wasn't retribution on the part of decision makers |
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Junkdrawer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:59 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Completely agree, except the Soviets weren't new-found competitors... |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:26 PM Response to Reply #51 |
64. And by "indefensible" you mean |
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BadgerLaw2010 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. Indeed. Massive ignorance of history in this thread. |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 04:30 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. And I'm sure that Austrian Jewry wouldn't have minded |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:43 PM Response to Reply #67 |
107. So now we bombed Japanese civilians to save China? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:48 PM Response to Reply #107 |
111. In part, yeah. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 08:50 PM Response to Reply #51 |
130. Especially when war and atomic bombs can only be harmful to us -- to the planet. I don't get it !!! |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 08:56 PM Response to Reply #130 |
133. Apparently sanity is in short supply these days |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:55 AM Response to Reply #133 |
142. Given that the poster to which you are replying |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:09 PM Response to Reply #142 |
147. You didn't read the rest of operation paperclip, did you? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:13 PM Response to Reply #147 |
148. Stay on target. |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:21 PM Response to Reply #148 |
150. Wild tangents? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:29 PM Response to Reply #150 |
151. Well, since you didn't read the posts that you're attacking, I'll recap. |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 04:23 PM Response to Reply #151 |
166. Ok, I'll play ball for 1 post |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 07:41 PM Response to Reply #166 |
172. I don't mean to imply that I'm denying |
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Hydra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 08:35 PM Response to Reply #172 |
173. clarification |
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Didereaux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:13 PM Response to Original message |
103. Japan was a genocidal, murderous, torturer equal to the Nazi's... |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:45 PM Response to Reply #103 |
109. And when did deliberately killing civilians become acceptable to Americans? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:49 PM Response to Reply #109 |
112. When the only other option was killing even more. n/t |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:51 PM Response to Reply #109 |
113. No, I think the notion was entertained when Hitler concentrated *his*... |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:58 PM Response to Reply #113 |
115. We didn't drop the Atomic Bomb on Germany. Nor did we bomb the rail-lines to any concentration camps |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:34 PM Response to Reply #115 |
127. You asked two questions, I answer the first one. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 08:54 PM Response to Reply #115 |
132. This is an excellent point; America did know of the concentration camps and did nothing --- |
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Didereaux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 10:06 PM Response to Reply #115 |
134. you made 3 three misleading statements... |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 08:22 AM Response to Reply #115 |
139. Germany |
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rockymountaindem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:21 PM Response to Reply #109 |
123. It was when everybody looked around and realized we were in a new kind of war |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 08:51 PM Response to Reply #103 |
131. Grreat! So was that worth America becoming Nazified -- ???? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:57 AM Response to Reply #131 |
144. That statement, like so many of yours, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:01 PM Response to Reply #144 |
153. And you think that a personal attack is debate . . . go debate someone else --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:09 PM Response to Reply #153 |
156. Saying that your statement does not bear any logical relation to the one it is in reply to |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
110. As it turns out, Saddam Hussein also tried to work a deal to leave Iraq. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:15 PM Response to Reply #110 |
119. And, of course, you couldn't have Saddam Hussein out free telling the world the truth .... |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:56 AM Response to Reply #119 |
143. He certainly could have said those things at any point during his reign. |
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tabasco (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-09-07 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
122. Hogwash. |
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incapsulated (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:19 AM Response to Reply #122 |
136. Yeah, that. n/t |
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ellisonz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:42 AM Response to Original message |
137. Umm...no. |
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Beelzebud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
145. We had to inflate our penis size for the Russians, therefore we *had* to nuke Japan. |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:58 AM Response to Reply #145 |
146. Or, you know, the fact that the Japanese were not willing to surrender. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:52 PM Response to Reply #146 |
163. They weren't "willing" they were BEGGING to surrender --- |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #163 |
165. For the fifth time now, they wanted a negotiated peace, not a surrender. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 06:37 PM Response to Reply #165 |
169. And, of course, they were in a position to set the terms . . . right? |
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Rhythm and Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 07:09 PM Response to Reply #169 |
171. They believed they were, as they had not yet |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 12:16 PM Response to Original message |
149. questions for those questioning the use of the bomb |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 03:53 PM Response to Reply #149 |
164. Along the lines of ridiculous questions . .. . how would you feel if the Germans had nuked England |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 04:24 PM Response to Reply #164 |
167. so are you suggesting that the Germans were nicer than us? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 06:39 PM Response to Reply #167 |
170. I'm suggesting that weaponry isn't either moral nor healthy for anyone --- |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 10:46 PM Response to Reply #170 |
174. so, I'm back to the question you didn't answer: should the US have fought Japan |
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sofa king (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 06:24 PM Response to Original message |
168. September 2, 1945 was a compromise, and was conditional. |
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Guaranteed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-10-07 11:33 PM Response to Original message |
176. Then why didn't they? They could have put down their weapons at any time. nt |
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