Oh my! D-Obey just stated on CSPAN2 that Dems will introduce a 'war surtax' to raise $145bil/yr...

[Blackhatjack]

... ranging from 2% on the low income end to 14-15% on the upper end. He said it will raise approximately the amount needed to offset the cost of the war on an annual basis.

Folks, this will get the public's attention... guaranteed.

[Justyce]

1. Wish it would all fall on the upper end -- they are the only ones

profiting from this adminstration.

[mike_c]

2. I hope they have the courage to stick with this....

Make the warmongers-- in both parties-- face their constituents and justify paying for the occupation of Iraq. I can't wait to see whether they discard the lies and present the bald truth: pay for it now in taxes or pay for it later at the gasoline pump, because that's what it's really all about-- controlling the region where most of the world's oil comes from.

[annabanana]

3. This is pretty tough stuff.. "There will BE no supplemental"

Who else is watching this?

[mike_c]

THAT'S what I want to hear!

Now please please please give them the courage to stick with it!

[Tom Joad]

14. I really doubt that will be the case.... make me happy, though.

show me i am being too cynical, and that the dems will refuse to vote supplemental funding for the genocidal war in Iraq.

We will see.

[bdamomma]

7. I was is it over now, what did Murtha say?

[havocmom]

4. RNC/GOP will misstate the issue and chant: Tax & Spend Liberals ad nauseam

We will have to work VERY HARD to drown out the Wurlitzer Noise Machine with facts. The media won't help us point out the Tax Cut & Spend Republicans have mortgaged the US to the point that grand-children and THEIR children will be paying off the tab the neocons have run up funneling money to their corporate masters.

[mike_c]

6. "sunlight is the best disinfectant...."

The more attention that's focused on this issue, the better, IMO.

[havocmom]

18. Yep. But We The People will have to pull the curtains open. Media won't help much unless we force it

LOTS of chatter will be necessary. We have to make this a hot topic at water coolers across the country. Media won't deal with the truth unless we force it to deal with the truth.

[tsuki]

60. We can do it, havocmom. I know I can make my

voice heard. }(

[annabanana]

8. You are right havocmom. . It will be up to the people

to press the media to cover this properly..

[Froward69]

10. We should just counter the truth... gop=Borrow and Spend

What is smarter spending with Cash. or spending borrowed funds with interest?

[MattSh]

45. Eh, so what?

That's what the average American has done the last ten years and enough of them are still doing well enough to think that "Borrow and Spend" is just fine.

[aquart]

23. Tax and spend is PAY AS YOU GO.

Simply convert it and continue.

They sold this war as free. Said Iraq and its oil would pay for it.

[Raksha]

47. Hell, let 'em whine about taxes all they want!

The Dems can just tell them: "What's the matter, assholes? You insisted on buying an overpriced war on plastic, and now you don't want to pay for it? When we say our children and grandchildren are still going to be paying for this war, just what the hell do you think we meant?"

Hopefully, the American people have finally awakened and will no longer allow a bunch of bloodthirsty, greedy incompetents who can't even balance a checkbook to run the country.

[Bjorn Against]

75. Just tell them that "freedom isn't free"

[Oeditpus Rex]

61. It should be relatively easy to 'catapult' this:

"How can you say you support the troops if you don't want to financially support them?"

[Bozita]

5. flatout brilliant!

I love it.

[KharmaTrain]

64. So Do I...Call Them On Their Crap

This is not unlike Charlie Rangel's call for a draft. It focuses the expense this war is costing, whose paying for it and why there's no money to fix schools, bridges, health care and other bread and butter issues.

I see CNN is already spinning how this is a "weapon"...going to the worn out "tax and spend" meme. Too bad they don't look at their own damn polls that show a majority would favor increasing taxes rather than borrowing more money from China.

[bdamomma]

9. oh shoot, it's over.

[Tom Joad]

11. um... why not just refuse to fund the war? No wonder these people

have worse ratings than bushboy.

[kenny blankenship]

24. Really. i wonder if this will cause more people to hate the war -or to hate Democrats

"Not only didn't they stop the war, they turned around and raised our taxes to keep it going..."

[Subdivisions]

26. Well, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean,

the Dems have already let the whole country down anyway, haven't they? They were elected to end the war and they instead enable it to continue. Congress' approval rating is in the tank anyway so how much more damage can be done?

Did you really, really think that voters weren't going to remember that the Dem-controlled 110th stabbed them in the back?

One thing is for goddamned sure though. If a war tax is imposed, the sheeple WILL WAKE UP! And that awakening can only be good for Dems in the long run as the shake up exposes to the entire American tax-paying public just exactly who in both parties are accomplices in this so-called war...which is really not about terrorists at all but about securing the dick cheney reality that the "American way of life is non-negotiable" and the action to secure energy resources for the fun and profit of this Big Oil and corporate coup d'etat.

[rucky]

54. Yes. n/t

[robertpaulsen]

74. Afuckingmen. Just defund the motherfucker. n/t

[Skidmore]

12. And those who don't support the war effort through taxes should be

noted as unpatriotic.

[Deb]

16. Exactly! "Freedom isn't free." How many times did we hear that?

[Subdivisions]

17. It's time to get busy. This is going to get really nasty

really fast.

We must circle the wagons and shove the goddamned war back in their faces!

If this doesn't get the sheeple's attention, NOTHING WILL!

[havocmom]

21. Noted early and OFTEN

The pro-war rich getting richer off the blood of the poor and working classes needs some serious attention. When the pro-war rich balk at paying for the war that gives them so much, we need to brand them as the self-serving, unpatriotic scum they are.

The pro-war middle, likewise. If the war is so necessary, they can start paying for it!

[mile18blister]

13. It's about damn time.

Taxes are supposed to go up, not down, during wartime.

[Beaverhausen]

22. Exactly right. If people support it, let them pay for it

and just let the repukes try and blame the dems. Won't work this time.

[Subdivisions]

15. The Hill:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obey-no-iraq-supplemental-until-course-change-2007-10-02.html

Obey: No Iraq supplemental until course change
By Mike Soraghan
October 02, 2007
President Bush will not get an Iraq war supplemental spending bill until he changes course on the war, House Appropriations Chairman David Obey (D-Wis.) said Tuesday. The powerful lawmaker also voiced his support for a “war tax.”


“As chairman of the Appropriations Committee I have absolutely no intention of reporting out of committee anytime in this session of Congress any such request that simply serves to continue the status quo,” Obey told reporters.

He wants a war spending bill to end U.S. involvement in combat operations by January 2009, allow more rest time for troops between deployments and start a “diplomatic surge.”

Obey also came out in favor of Rep. James McGovern’s (D-Mass.) war tax proposal.

“If you don’t like the cost, then shut down the war,” Obey said in a news conference.

The tax would be intended to raise roughly $150 billion for the war. It would be a surtax of 2 to 15 percent of income tax. A 2 percent surtax means that a person who would otherwise pay $100 in taxes would pay $102.

[Yael]

33. This is beautiful!

War is SO pretty, and then the bill comes in. Poor (R)s... The war party is over.

[Buns_of_Fire]

46. Kudos to Rep. Obey -- BUT...

don't the committee chairmen serve at the pleasure of the Speaker? If so, what Nancy giveth Nancy could also taketh away -- and right now, I personally don't trust her all that much...

[aquart]

19. Lovely.

[Subdivisions]

20. I just called Obey's office. I suggest everyone who is inclined

do the same:

Phone:



Wausau District Office [phone]



Superior District Office [phone]



Washington, DC Office [phone]



Fax:



Wausau District Office [phone]



Superior District Office [phone]

[Blackhatjack]

25. The Mall Owners Prefer that People Show Their Support By 'Going Shopping...'

Nothing gets the public's attention like a 'tax increase.'

Dems need to make it clear that they tried to set a withdrawal date and end the war, but Repubs shut them down.

Now it is time to pay for the decision of the Repubs to shut down efforts to end the war.

I really like the idea that there won't be any more Supplementals for payment of the war costs.

[BootinUp]

27. I support that idea

I hope Hillary will.

[Blackhatjack]

29. I cannot imagine any Democratic Candidate opposing this ... what could they say?

"We don't think the costs of this war should be paid right now. Rather the children and grandchildren can pick up the tab."

[BootinUp]

30. I agree

I'll be pissed at any of them that shoot it down. Of course how do we get it passed though?

[Blackhatjack]

28. Let's keep this kicked so that everyone can do their part to publicize it....

[Marr]

31. This is the best way to end the occupation. Even better than defunding.

Make this thing unprofitable for the wealthy and they'll stop seeing it as vitally important really damned fast, I guarantee it.

[Blackhatjack]

32. Time for some 'on the street polling' to see how happy people are about the war and its cost....

70% are against the war, and hearing that the costs of the war are coming due you can imagine how happy they will be.

[MissWaverly]

34. there already charging a war tax on child support in some places

Now a woman receiving $500 child support will have $25.00 chopped off to pay for administrative costs that the money has been
reallocated to go to the war, now there's another tax and then there's the shortfall in services due to federal cuts, this is
a government by the big money, of the big money and for the big money.

[halobeam]

35. Pelosi won't bring this to the floor:

according to this thread... (per MSNBC)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1959796

[ecstatic]

36. WTF? Tax registered repugs ONLY

I'm not paying any more money to kill innocents in foreign countries.

[bdamomma]

51. can we as taxpayers ourselves stop this funding??

for this illegal invasion.

[mike_c]

37. well that didn't take long to die....

Pelosi, who won't use her authority to prevent supplementals from reaching the House floor has already chimed in that she'll use it to kill Obey's bill by that very method.

[ecstatic]

38. Is Pelosi really a repub who pretended to be liberal to get elected in SF?

:shrug:

[mike_c]

44. I dunno, but she's turning out significantly worse than DiFi....

Ouch.

[Marr]

62. Wow. I think Pelosi isnot long for Congress.

[AntiFascist]

39. What would be even more effective and unpopular....

would be a gas tax. This would cut into the incredible profits made by the oil companies and penalize those who are directly benefitting by our presence in the ME. It might also force more people to consider hybrids. :)

[rucky]

55. not at the pump, right? that could still be more regressive...

unless you set maximum dollar value oil companies can make per gallon. Not profit margin as a % - dollar value as a markup. otherwise, they'll just pass it on to consumers.

[AntiFascist]

76. Essentially there are two evils at work here....

the greed of the oil companies, and the mindset of the consumer. Certainly, there are lower-income people who have to be able to commute, and who are hurt by higher gas prices. Perhaps some legislation allowing for minimal gas credits could be implemented, based on how far one is required to commute.

The people who are really driving the gas consumption are the ones with fast cars and big SUVs, often with "support the troops" ribbons on the backs of their cars, who feel it is their god-given right to use massive amounts of resources from other nations. It is this mindset that allows the oil companies to do everything possible to meet the demand and to profit greatly in the process. It is this mindset which has put oil executives in the Administration, and which allows the O.I.L. lobby to maintain control over Congress. This mindset is destroying the planet, killing and wounding our soldiers, and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. This mindset is threatening violent aggression towards other Middle Eastern nations. Not only that, but America's mindset is standing as a negative role model to the world, with nations like China and India following our lead, and accelerating the pollution of the planet and the depletion of its resources.

[Donnachaidh]

40. and a bunch of folks here branded Obey as a traitor not too long ago

Gee, how the song changes when he tries to do something to make the american public sacrifice a wee bit.
Of course, the ones on the Democratic side who shoot this down (can you say Pelosi) are the real problems in Washington.

[SlowDownFast]

48. "bunch of folks here branded Obey as a traitor not too long ago"

Those were just 'idiot liberals'.

They do exist, ya know.

[OzarkDem]

68. You're right, I change my mind

Now I think he's just a fool. This tax makes no sense at all. I fail to see any "plus" side of this for Dems.

Now if he was working to develop a tax for single payer health care reform, I'd say he has a chance.

[progressoid]

41. Cool!

[LSK]

42. wish they could figure out how to just tax Bush voters

[kimpossible]

43. Heard about this idea on AAR last weekend

They were talking about it on "Clout". I didn't think the dem leadership would run with it and risk being criticised for "raising taxes". Yay!

[mmonk]

49. Innovative.

Someone's actually thinking.

[book_worm]

50. it calls for sacrifice for all, but GOP will paint Dems as big taxers and the electorate

will also scoff at it because people just don't want higher taxes. They don't want the war and they don't want a tax hike.

[Stand and Fight]

63. Exactly right. n/t

[mike_c]

72. so they need someone to make crystal clear what that means....

eom

[Blackhatjack]

52. This war has to end somehow. This is a good way to get the public's attention....

Now why would Pelosi refuse to bring it to the floor of the House?

[MadHound]

53. Sorry, but this is a fucking atrocious idea

Gee, voting in perpetual funding for a perpetual war? Not the brightest of things. After all, it isn't like this is needed to change public opinion, the overwhelming majority of Americans are against the war. Nor would this end the war, it would only encourage Bushboy to expand it.

This is a fucking idiotic idea, and frankly I hope it fails to go through. Instead of providing perpetual money for perpetual war, Congress should be shutting the purse, defunding the war and bringing the troops home. But noooo, they want to go exactly the opposite way.

[WinkyDink]

56. WTH?? Just stop THROWING BILLIONS at Halliburton!

[renie408]

57. This is pretty smart. By saying that there will be no more supplementals

and using a war surtax, they are throwing it right back in Bush's lap. He will no longer be able to get away with not identifying what spending is for, etc, right? And support for the war is going to drop through the floor. And what are Republicans going to say? This way, the Dems are saying, "Ok, have your war. Just tell the American people they have to pay for it directly." (we've been paying for it all along, but people don't 'see' the money. This way, they will) Support for the war ON BOTH SIDES of the aisle is going to drop like a rock.

[BurtWorm]

58. That's ingenious. I hope it works.

:patriot:

[DrDan]

59. it needs to be labeled as a Republican tax hike

It's their war - let them take the heat for paying for it.

C'mon Dems - get some balls and get aggressive.

[Vinca]

65. OMG - how will we be able to continue shopping at the mall???

Obey's cutting up the Chinese credit card and Republicans are going snake sh*t over it. Shrub's first effort at any fiscal responsibility is to deny kids healthcare. He'll probably faint when he hears someone's proposing a war tax.

[Stand and Fight]

66. This will backfire on us. Not because it is not right, but because...

This will backfire on us not because it is not right, but because people do not think... People here may be celebrating, but it is far easier for Republicans to chant that Democrats want to raise your taxes and take away your hard-earned pay. What people here fail to remember is how most Americans don't give a damn if it does not affect them directly. That's why people like ourselves have right protested and agitated against this war since it started -- because we do care! This is just ammunition for the Republicans to be able to say we want to raise taxes. Americans won't think about why it is being done because the first thing they will think is, "Oh my God! My money!" The will fail to remember the more responsible course is ending this war at all costs... So long as they don't lose money. This will backfire.

[OzarkDem]

67. I'm not paying a nickle

Good luck, Obey.

[Cleita]

69. I'm hoping that this is to pay for what we have spent, not for

new wars or to start new ones.

[lonestarnot]

70. Ugh yeah maybe.

[Joanne98]

71. Great idea! Put it right on the paycheck next to SSI!

So people can SEE how much this is costing.

[snappyturtle]

73. We have to find some way to pay for this ungodly debacle and

not be borrowing it from domestic needs or China! Good for Obey. K&R

[Buzz Clik]

77. No fair! The war is supposed to be outside of Dubya's bogus budget numbers!