Daniel Ellsberg: 'A Coup Has Occurred'

[seafan]

'A Coup Has Occurred'

By Daniel Ellsberg


(via Consortium News)


Editor’s Note: Daniel Ellsberg, the former Defense Department analyst who leaked the secret Pentagon Papers history of the Vietnam War, offered insights into the looming war with Iran and the loss of liberty in the United States at an American University symposium on Sept. 20.


(I have selected what I think are key parts of Ellsberg's speech from the excerpts posted at the Consortium News web site. Much more of the speech is at the link.)



By Daniel Ellsberg

I think nothing has higher priority than averting an attack on Iran, which I think will be accompanied by a further change in our way of governing here that in effect will convert us into what I would call a police state.

If there’s another 9/11 under this regime … it means that they switch on full extent all the apparatus of a police state that has been patiently constructed, largely secretly at first but eventually leaked out and known and accepted by the Democratic people in Congress, by the Republicans and so forth.

.....

And I would say after the Iranian retaliation to an American attack on Iran, you will then see an increased attack on Iran – an escalation – which will be also accompanied by a total suppression of dissent in this country, including detention camps.

It’s a little hard for me to distinguish the two contingencies; they could come together. Another 9/11 or an Iranian attack in which Iran’s reaction against Israel, against our shipping, against our troops in Iraq above all, possibly in this country, will justify the full panoply of measures that have been prepared now, legitimized, and to some extent written into law. …

This is an unusual gang, even for Republicans. I think that the successors to this regime are not likely to roll back the assault on the Constitution. They will take advantage of it, they will exploit it.

.....

Unless this somehow, by a change in our political climate, of a radical change, unless this gets rolled back in the next year or two before a new administration comes in – and there’s no move to do this at this point – unless that happens I don’t see it happening under the next administration, whether Republican or Democratic.

The Next Coup

Let me simplify this and not just to be rhetorical: A coup has occurred. I woke up the other day realizing, coming out of sleep, that a coup has occurred. It’s not just a question that a coup lies ahead with the next 9/11. That’s the next coup, that completes the first.

The last five years have seen a steady assault on every fundamental of our Constitution, … what the rest of the world looked at for the last 200 years as a model and experiment to the rest of the world – in checks and balances, limited government, Bill of Rights, individual rights protected from majority infringement by the Congress, an independent judiciary, the possibility of impeachment.

There have been violations of these principles by many presidents before.

.....

I think that none of those presidents were in fact what I would call quite precisely the current administration: domestic enemies of the Constitution.

.....

It is increasingly clear with each new book and each new leak that comes out, that Richard Cheney and his now chief of staff David Addington have had precisely that in mind (to change our form of government) since at least the early 70s. Not just since 1992, not since 2001, but have believed in Executive government, single-branch government under an Executive president – elected or not – with unrestrained powers. They did not believe in restraint.

.....

But even by those standards, an attack on Iran is insane. And I say that quietly, I don’t mean it to be heard as rhetoric. Of course it’s not only aggression and a violation of international law, a supreme international crime, but it is by imperial standards, insane in terms of the consequences.

.....

And the question is what then, what can we do about this? We are heading towards an insane operation. It is not certain. It is likely. … I want to try to be realistic myself here, to encourage us to do what we must do, what is needed to be done with the full recognition of the reality. Nothing is impossible.

What I’m talking about in the way of a police state, in the way of an attack on Iran is not certain. Nothing is certain, actually. However, I think it is probable, more likely than not, that in the next 15, 16 months of this administration we will see an attack on Iran. Probably. Whatever we do.

And … we will not succeed in moving Congress probably, and Congress probably will not stop the president from doing this. And that’s where we’re heading. That’s a very ugly, ugly prospect.

.....

Getting back the constitutional government and improving it will take a long time. And I think if we don’t get started now, it won’t be started under the next administration.

Getting out of Iraq will take a long time. Averting Iran and averting a further coup in the face of a 9/11, another attack, is for right now, it can’t be put off. It will take a kind of political and moral courage of which we have seen very little…

....

I took an oath many times, an oath of office as a Marine lieutenant, as an official in the Defense Department, as an official in the State Department as a Foreign Service officer. A number of times I took an oath of office which is the same oath office taken by every member of Congress and every official in the United States and every officer in the United States armed services.

And that oath is not to a Commander in Chief, which is not mentioned. It is not to a fuehrer. It is not even to superior officers. The oath is precisely to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

.....

The president is clearly violating that oath, of course. Everybody under him who understands what is going on and there are myriad, are violating their oaths. And that’s the standard that I think we should be asking of people.

.....

I am shocked by the Republicans today that I read in the Washington Post who yesterday threatened a filibuster if we … get back habeas corpus. The ruling out of habeas corpus with the help of the Democrats did not get us back to George the First it got us back to before King John 700 years ago in terms of counter-revolution.

We need some way, and Ann Wright has one way, of sitting in, in Conyers office and getting arrested. Ray McGovern has been getting arrested, pushed out the other day for saying the simple words “swear him in” when it came to testimony.

I think we’ve got to somehow get home to them that this is the time for them to uphold the oath, to preserve the Constitution, which is worth struggling for in part because it’s only with the power that the Constitution gives Congress responding to the public, only with that can we protect the world from mad men in power in the White House who intend an attack on Iran.

.....

[RevCheesehead]

1. I could only read about half of what you wrote...

and then my stomach began hurting really bad.
God, I want my country back! :cry:

[truedelphi]

Me too. Our country back NOW! n/t

[The Doctor.]

63. I will be among millions of Americans who drop what they are doing

and go to Washington if these assholes attack Iran.

I think we should have a comm network outside of the internet too.

[FREEWILL56]

81. How are you going to do a

comm network? Everything is monitored and run by the government unless you want runners like in ancient Greece.

[liberation]

87. The old fashion way: Ham radio...

[BrainGlutton]

137. There's way too much Internet for them to monitor everything.

[toadzilla]

98. If we wait for them to attack Iran it will be too late.

[Gonnuts]

132. Do it NOW!

If we wait until this insane administration attacks Iran to protest it will be way to late. It may already be. As Elsberg pointed out all the necessary ingredients are already in place to turn this country into a full blown police state.

I for one have been screaming about this very scenario for some time and everyone calls me nuts. Just like they did when I was screaming we'd be attacking Iraq. Unfortunately I don't think we stand a chance. If at the juncture we still have people saying, "... well, IF this happens THEN I'll react", it's the classic closing the barn door after the horse is out.

You want to stop the Iraq war - STOP IT NOW! You want to stop the Iraq war - put down what you're doing and DO IT NOW! And how do we do it? They don't listen to our votes, our calls, our letters, our emails or our protests. But they WILL LISTEN to OUR MONEY! I have been asking why all the so-called progressive sites don't gone together in calling for a GENERAL STRIKE (GS). GS are one of the easiest and most effective ways of getting those that are suppose to represent us to actually listen to us. If 20% of the work force stayed home and bought nothing for just one day the impact would be enormous. If we stopped buying GE products, we'd be out of Iraq in a week. So why aren't we doing this? Why isn't DU, MoveOn, DailyKos, Think Process and all the others calling on their millions of members to go in on a GS? Nothing else has worked, so why not a GS?

And we do it NOW - BEFORE another war!

[The Doctor.]

150. Umm... no... none of that would work at all.

The approach you suggest is utterly pointless.

What's your opinion on the outcome of an attack on Iran?

[truedelphi]

134. That is very true. They pull the plug on the internet

And instantly we are without our support group.

[seafan]

14. If ever there was something to fight for, this is it. Our form of government that endured 231 years

is under full frontal attack by madmen driving the engines of our government, exacerbated by the emergent facts that these men were never legitimately elected by the people.


Impeachment proceedings against Cheney MUST START NOW, because he is the monster driving this train. He and David Addington and all the assorted neocons ginning up the next war need to be stopped.

We are undergoing massive hemorrhage of lives under this criminal occupation.

[FREEWILL56]

82. I also think we need to start a running list

on the neocon criminals and all who support them with a running tab or list of the crimes each are comitting. We don't want a single one of them to escape justice. This also includes independents and democrats who are complicit in the crimes against the United States.

[bananarepublican]

90. It died in 1963. The beginning of the end started with the birth of 'the Fed'.

Ask yourself...

Who owns 'the Fed'? Therefore... Who really controls the country?

Kennedy was going to give back the right to issue American money back to the people. (As well as, end involvement in Vietnam by the end of '65 and finally, bring the Cold War to an early end.)

From what I can see, Kucinich and Paul are today's equivalent of JFK.

If there is anyone here who believes that Bill Gates was ever the richest person in the world... all I can say is... the MSM has done its job on you well!

[EV_Ares]

94. What do you mean about Gates? eom.

[BelgianMadCow]

135. chech out the central bankers :

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm

[EV_Ares]

139. Ah, ok I see, thanks., eom.

[bananarepublican]

154. Thanks BMC. n/t

[ringtailtooter]

130. I agree, along with adopting Milton Friedman's globalization ecnomics

theories beginning in the 60's. A must read is Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism". It just came out last week. See Huffington Post for more info. and Klein's interview with Alan Greenspan.

[bananarepublican]

153. Thanks. I just saw a clip of John Cusack interviewing Naomi. The book seems very promising. n/t

[Gonnuts]

136. Absolutely right

And you bet the house that if by some miracle Paul or Kucinich were elected to office they'd be assassinated before they took the oath of office.

This country hasn't been "free" since 1913 when the Fed was formed and illegally put in place by a mostly absent and corrupt congress. We live in a country that is much like a magic show that give us the illusion that we're free.

[bananarepublican]

152. Naturally, 'Al Queda' would be framed with any such assassination! n/t

[snappyturtle]

124. I have put this article off til now because I knew that would happen!

Here's another long this same line in case you haven't read it. It's long but I highly recommend it.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/077

It's an interview on BuzzFlash with Naomi Klein who wrote The End of America....192 pages available on Amazon for a little over eight dollars!

[bdamomma]

2. the prospects of the future for us do not look so good, there will

be dissent if this happens, we will be fighting for our survival.

[derby378]

3. And if we hadn't passed that damned "assault weapons" ban in 1994...

...Congress would never have wound up in the hands of the Religious Right. And the coups that Ellsberg spoke of would never have happened.

If there was any sanity left in America, Herr Decider would have been impeached a long, long time ago. But now it looks like he's going to get away with his crimes against America - and his administration with him.

[bdamomma]

4. the people will not let him get away with this, another invasion

will just do it for us, or we will be obedient subjects??? No one will stand for this......sigh

[rhett o rick]

100. I hope you are being sarcastic. The sheeple have let them give away most of our rights, invade a

country, steal elections, etc. The sheeple will continue to let them rape us until it will be too late.

[snappyturtle]

128. I'm afraid you may be correct. When I listen to some of the callers

on Washington Journal I am amazed at the ignorance that abounds and is presented as fact and of course they are not called on it....unless another caller makes the point.

Naomi Klein made a good point in her interview on BuzzFlash that people are complacent and trusting of the government and too busy entertaining themselves (I add: making ends meet!) to notice what's really going on. I liken it to the Romans with their coliseum activities to keep the masses amused.

She pointed out that there are two things we need to do now. One is to restore Habeas Corpus and the second, to protect the reporters from being prosecuted for whistle blowing government "secrets" whatever. She seems to think if those two things are restored we may save the democracy. Not cheerful thoughts but we HAVE to do something.

[rhett o rick]

138. Good post. I agree. The first thing we must do is get the Democratic Party

to agree that the most important issues are related to restoring our democracy and not minimum wage increases. I am extremely disappointed that the Democratic Party hasn't made an issue out of restoring habeas corpus, repealing the MCA, repealing the Patriot Act, ending the illegal spying on American citizens, and ending torture.

[dickbearton]

33. Bullshit, gun control has nothing to do with this...

The neocons are fascists, pure and simple. 

[AZ Criminal JD]

44. Bullshit, it sure as hell did

Look at the 1994 results which gave Congress to the Repugs. Look at the swing districts where we lost.

[rhett o rick]

101. Doesn't matter, it was the correct thing to do. If the sheeple of this

Country want to live in a fascist state then we can't stop it.

[derby378]

64. There are fascists, and there are those who unwittingly enable fascists

I defer to the Iroquois Confederacy: In every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.

[bjobotts]

36. We are bigger than the 'cou'. A small num. of wealthy loud mouths

Lied their way into power. In 'o6 we thought we had elected those who would be brave enough to rid us of this power grab. All we have is our vote and our opinion poll. Awareness is the first step which includes spreading the word. Nothing this WH does is to be trusted nor are those who for whatever reason allow them to continue. Post everywhere that you don't support plans to attack Iran. Make everyone you can aware of Bush's dishonesty to engage us in another preemptive war. Make more noise. We are dealing with criminals not elected officials, people who have seized power. We can't wait 16 more months with Bush/Cheney at the helm. They want to push this war off on the next administration plus add another war to it, while they laugh all the way to the bank. Making our dem leaders do what we elected them to do is a slow "continuous" process so the pressure must be consistently strong. Call and write daily your reps. Place signs everwhere...not ones that criticize as much as signs that state facts. (i.e., "Attack Iran to Make Gas Go Up To $10/gal.") Borrow another trillion $'s from China just to attack Iran.....Everyone in the ME has a nuke except Iran. In 10yrs Nukes could = USA 1500...Iran 2. Paranoid yet?
In order to stop funding for terrorist all citizens will be given a government card to use to conduct all approved business...Don't leave home without one. Iran has an elected leader who speaks for only 30% of the people. America has an elected leader who speaks for only 27% of the people. So there are many more Americans and Iranians who aren't represented by their leaders.

Sen Den Nelson D-Neb. went against his party and got Hans von Spaskosky nomination out of committee to go to the senate floor for a vote. Hans is the one who singlehandedly was disenfranchising democratic voters through the DoJ civil rights division and Bush is rewarding him by trying to get him placed for 6yrs on the Federal Election Commission. Good move Nelson...get rid of more democratic voters. Another worthless beltway democrat just like Diane Fienstein who got the Southwick for appeals court judge nomination out of committee to the Senate floor going against her party with her tie breaking vote also. What explanation could Nelson possibly give to get an announced enemy to the democratic party out of committee besides being bought or bribed. Worthless Democrats both of them.

[dmr]

119. They would've just used another wedge issue

to 'play' the people. Notice how many of those wedge issues are out there. There's a wedge issue to rile up the whole easy to snooker right-wing. If one issue doesn't get 'em riled up there's another one, two or more to inspire blind faith and a GOP vote. Gotta get rid of the Tax & spend, liberal, weak on terrorism, elitist, atheistic, anti-American, card carrying ACLU, decadent, lazy and dirty, BUT critical thinking, and very patriotic Democrats.

[nashville_brook]

5. k n r

[Hubert Flottz]

6. K&R

[truedelphi]

7. Too bad the major networks would never in a million years

Feature a twenty minute segment of Naomi WOlf and Ellsberg discussing this.

Aired inprime time and on a news show

[ljm2002]

8. Great essay...

...should be required reading for all of us here, and everyone in government service including Congress and the military, the CIA, the FBI, the NSA -- anyone at all who is concerned about what is happening right now.

A tip of the hat to Daniel Ellsberg, still fighting the good fight after all these years.

[xchrom]

9. recommend

[Uncle Joe]

10. Kicked and recommended!

Thanks for the thread seafan.

[seafan]

15. Thank you, Uncle Joe. It is with rage that I start and end every single day of this hell.

But I'll never stop fighting these criminals. Never.

[FREEWILL56]

83. They have gone far beyond just being criminals.

They are traitors.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

11. Mr. Ellsberg certainly has the knowledge, experience & wisdom to judge.

I wish I knew his secret. The secret I want him to share is how the hell he keeps his sense of center in this really frightening situation. I know people don't say it because it sounds too aweful to be us but damnit the situation I am talking about is a full-blown fascist state: corporate-controlled, completely out of the hands of "the people", drowning a nation in militarism and seeking global power.

God,...whatever you are,...please, PLEASE help us do what it takes to end this insanity.

[bobthedrummer]

12. Yep, some of US knew that in December 2000. K&R.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST

[defendandprotect]

48. Many of us have watched the growing political violence from Dag Hammarskjold, JFK, RFK . . .

MLK, Malcolm X and the surrounding political violence against democratic organizations and civil rights organizations -- to the 2000 "election" !!!!

The facist GOP rally at Miami Dade Election HQs should have been enough to wake up the nation --

Where were you all???

[zeemike]

96. I knew it then

And bloged about it then.
Though no one took me too seriously because they were unable to accept such a gloomy outlook.
I only wish that I was full of shit and that this nightmare was just that.

[defendandprotect]

146. I was amazed that Americans didn't come out into the streets when they stopped the vote count -- !!!

[Le Taz Hot]

97. Actually, I knew in in November 1980

when the MSM elected Reagan. BCCI and Iran-Contra were both scuttled -- the two largest scandals to come out of the WH at that time. Had the rule-of-law been followed to its legal end, most of these vermin would have been disgraced, convicted and sent to prison.

I also knew it in January 1993. That's when the corporations officially took over the Democratic Party in return for campaign dollars as the Republicans were out-fundraising them by 3:1. Its solely why the DLC was formed -- to get the old-style liberals out of the way. It's the reason this treasonous bunch are called the "new" Democrats.

Impeachment is the People's issue. They're not interested in doing the People's business. There are profits to be made and countries to invade -- at least while we have the military power, which won't be for that much longer. No, instead of impeachment, we get censures against MoveOn.

No, the demise of the America that was loved and respected worldwide has been happening for a long time now.

[defendandprotect]

147. Thanks for the seconding of opinion -- and keep telling the story . . . ..

[IDemo]

13. Read the latest from Arthur Silber

Things are much worse than even Mr. Ellsberg claims: http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/ (lengthy, but worth it)

[puebloknot]

23. I read it. Are you handing out Prozac or Bourbon with your recommentation?

We are living in the perfect prototype of the "waiting for the next shoe to drop" conundrum. It's like standing at the bottom of a mountain, waiting for it to collapse on top of you.

I keep looking for the answer to "What can we do?" and it seems that they've closed off all possible exits, and we are simply pawns in a terrible game. I hate thinking that way, but I'm fearful that we're going to see things we've never imagined in this country 'ere long.

[IDemo]

26. What can (or will) we do? Apparently nothing, and they know it

Arthur offers a few words from BushCo at the end of his piece --

We're doing what this government has done for over a hundred years. We start wars of aggression to establish American dominance around the world. We began that policy in the 1890s, and we've never stopped. Sometimes we do it through covert operations, and by toppling regimes that won't do as we demand. Sometimes we simply invade and bomb them.

And we've used torture as a standard means of warfare for decades. We just used to hide it better, and we had better PR about how we weren't "really like that." Some of you even said you wanted torture to be brought out "into the open." So we did that.

Beginning with Woodrow Wilson and even before that, the ruling class has wanted a powerful police state here at home. We never kept it a secret, but we made it go down more easily with flowery talk and nice phrases.

We decided to do away with all the camouflage. We recognized what the actual aims had been all along and we agreed with them, so we decided to bring it all out into the open. We didn't want to waste time with all those nice speeches that make people feel better about themselves. Oh, sure, we still do that to some extent. We have to, because you're not willing to face the truth about what we've been doing around the world for 60 years and more, and what we do today.

But we stripped away a lot of the delusions. We knew no one would stop us -- because this is what you've wanted all along, and it's what you want now. You like making the rest of the world do what we tell them. You enjoy it. And whenever you have the slightest excuse for it, real or imagined, wide scale murder doesn't bother you in the least.

You like it. It's what you want. If it isn't, why don't you stop us? You could, you know. If enough of you made your objections known in ways that mattered, we'd have to stop. We're not worried, because we know you won't.

But go ahead. Try to stop us. Try to stop this war and the wars to come, and the mass slaughter, and the growing authoritarianism. Aren't you going to at least try? Aren't you?

Go ahead. We dare you.

And what's the answer from almost all of you, and from almost all Americans?

Exactly. That's what they counted on. They were right.

[puebloknot]

34. Even if some of us were willing to spill our blood, it would be a blip on the radar.

They have the money, they have the draconian weapons, they have a passive and uneducated populace.

The only hope I hold out is in that first phrase -- they have the money. People more wise and informed than I say the dollar is on the way down and out. If the People would just refuse to write certain checks that we all groan about in the spring of each year, we could have a massive impact. That won't happen. If the dollar is in extremis, and the economy collapses, there might be hope to suffer and rebuild, if we survive -- individually and collectively.

I simply don't know enough about economics, and the powers that control the worldwide economy, to know where we're headed. I just don't think the future is rosy. People were eating and drinking and enjoying life in Europe, right up until 9/1/39, and I think we're in that mode now. I'm old enough to understand some of this, but so many people of all ages, but especially 30 and under, don't have a clue about our history, and where we're headed.

I agree with the article that it isn't stupidity that is driving this grand scheme, but a devious intelligence. I *will* exclude Dubya from that comment because I think he works with a drug-damaged brain (working hard, you know), but even so impaired, he's still capable of inflicting great damage.

So...financial collapse seems our best hope! What a wonderful world!

Thanks for writing!

[JDPriestly]

122. The whole world is sneering at George W. Bush

In some ways, 09/25/07 was almost as big a day in our history as 09/11/01. 09/25/07 was the day that the world showed George W. Bush what it thinks of his hypocritical stance on human rights. That is the day when even our closest allies sat on their hands while

George W. Bush literally pointed his finger at each human rights offender sitting in the delegations to the UN before him. No one applauded. Not one clap. The message was clear. George W. Bush, we don't hear you.

That was the end. Bush is finished -- through -- emasculated -- impotent. if he bombs Iran, no matter how many bomb he drops, he will be very surprised at the response of the world. The sycophantic, obligatory support has evaporated. I don't know what the rest of the world will do. They may simply not do or say anything at all. But Bush and the U.S. will receive very little support if any for a military action in Iran in my view. France called for increased economic sanctions -- a mostly symbolic gesture under the circumstances, but that is going to be about it, and as we know from the history of Iraq, there are a million ways to circumvent economic sanction programs, and they will all be used by our friend and foe alike. George W. Bush can do what he wants to us at home, but he has no power. He can speak, but we Americans are the only ones who listen to what he says with any interest or respect. The rest of the world knows what we are not hearing -- the U.S. is bankrupt. Bush has ruined us. We have no money and our credit is running out. No one can get anything from us anymore and we have no real power -- just an arsenal of military toys and a limited amount of credit to buy juice to keep them running.

How should we DUers respond considering that Bush and our do-worse-than-nothing Congress refuse to respect our rights? Probably the best way is to follow the lead of the nations of the world: Let Bush babble and even bomb on and just sit on our hands. Not passively, but actively sit on our hands.

Demonstrations don't work. The press ignores them as do even our own Congress members. And they are likely to be the excuse for setting off the very police state that Bush dreams of. Demonstrations give Bush a response, attention. As we saw in the Canada tape, street demonstrations provide opportunities for police intervention including agents provocateurs. Demonstrations are part of the game that Bush is playing. They worked in the '60s. They don't work now.

If you want to demonstrate, try demonstrating through inaction. Start by canceling your subscription to MSM news magazines, newspapers (except liberal/progressive ones) and above all cable TV. Tell them why you are canceling. If you want to watch sports, go to a public place to watch the sports channels. The point is not that you should not watch. The point is that you don't pay to watch or read cable. If you want to read a magazine or newspaper, go to the library. The point is you don't pay for the Newsweek or Time or local paper. You are fed your daily dose of right-wing propaganda via cable TV and right-wing news media. The best way you can let them know what you think about that propaganda is to stop paying them for it.

You can watch anything you need to watch and read anything you need to read on the internet. Some of the media makes you watch ads, but you aren't paying directly. And you don't have to buy the product in the ad. I usually just play some idiotic computer game during the ad. The important thing is to stop paying for the lies.

And if you want to carry it a step further, buy only what you really have to buy. Don't buy any new clothes unless you really need them. Same for electronic gear and other things. And when you do buy, buy the simplest, least expensive model. The Bushies want your money. The companies that support the Bushies want you to buy and spend. That is what is keeping the whole shebang that causes the wars and violence going. Just stop doing your part. We don't need a special day for a strike. Just simplify your life and stop participating in the over-consumption that ruins the environment and causes and prolongs the violence in the world. That is the best way to demonstrate. Buying a ticket to Washington, D.C. from Seattle, Washington or San Francisco, Ca sends absolutely the wrong message and demonstrating gives the Bushies the excuse they are waiting for to end your rights. They are relying on the likelihood that we will express ourselves by demonstrating. They are ready for that move. Stop playing their game. Start saving your money. Stay home and play board games with your friends. Just sit on your hands. The rest of the world hates Bush. They are ignoring him. The realities of world finance are going to stop this guy. We should do our part. If you must demonstrate on the streets, demonstrate where you live now. Stop putting your nickles in the nickleodeon. Stop funding the war. Don't just yell at congress to stop paying for the war. You there -- stop paying for the war too. Stop buying their news and entertainment. Stop buying their junk. Stay home. Plant a peace garden. Play chess not war. Bring peace to your own life and the world. Just sit on your hands.

[nvme]

133. Stop supporting their war. K&R

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! I will vote with my Dollars.
Because the bottom line is the bottom line. this seems to be
the most constructive way. I joined 2 protests already. The
Occupation continues. So Now I will buy citgo gas (venezuelan)
and look for smaller manufacturers for my other products.
Dollars are the only thing this cabal understands, so dollars
are what i will use. 

[puebloknot]

144. It's intelligence like yours that stands a chance to f*ck up Dubya's plans ...

... for world domination.

I'm not going to sit on my hands, I'm going to knit socks, just like they did in circa 1942. Not only is it a contribution to the war -- strike that -- nonwar effort, it's fun, and handmade socks (alpaca) are *warm*!!!

Some people will look at this exchange and think it's just spitting in the ocean, that it will take grand events to overcome grand theft of a nation. We Americans are so conditioned to embrace the bigger, the faster, the latest, the greatest. And we're all exhausted because of it.

You're spot on when you say we should grow a garden. And then we can make soup from the vegetables because there *is* no canned soup that can touch freshly-cooked soup. And then a game of Monopoly (well, maybe we might want to make another choice, now that I think of it) -- a game of chess (no, that one's contaminated, too) -- oh, forget the games. That's part of our problem -- playing games with the world.

Let's just read. That's a truly revolutionary idea!

This is not a simplistic recipe you've outlined here. It's a way to stage an ongoing general strike!!!!

Thanks for sharing! Let's call it intellectual barter!

[defendandprotect]

148. There are many ways we can strike and resist this capitalistic-fascism . . . .

Keep the ideas coming, folks -- !!!

[tnlefty]

27. Just finished reading that.

It's a cheery inconvenient truth, isn't it? Going to get a glass of wine now.

[seafan]

37. That Silber piece forces the reader to look at the throbbing abscess that

is our present government, causing excruciating pain in our lives, and finally to see that the maggots are wearing crisp white shirts and cuff links.



It is a must read for the depth of analysis it provides.

Thanks for posting it here, IDemo.

[AzDar]

16. K & R .....

:kick:

[backscatter712]

17. I feel so helpless to stop this.

Nothing I say or do can stop these fucking madmen from destroying our country. If they had their way today, the U.S. would be every bit as repressive as Burma.

They keep pushing a little bit further, a little bit further, and when we get pissed off and tell them to stop, all we get from them is STFU or you'll get tasered.

One thing is certain. I will not accept martial law, nor will I accept detention camps, especially just for dissent. I'll die first.

[defendandprotect]

51. There are a couple of thousand things we can do -- How would our founders have responded????

Get it together, folks --
If you believe now there is a real threat to our democracy, you must respond suitably!!!

[defendandprotect]

52. There is a difference between acknowleging what's happening and letting . . ..

them win by simply scaring us to death -- !!!!

We can change things --

Let's come together to do it --

Where are we together -- ????

[bbgrunt]

18. k & r

[seafan]

19. kpete's thread in GD now: WAPO: Immigrant Detention Center Proposed in Va.

Another detention center, housing 1000, for illegal immigrants (WAPO)

[Sam Ervin jret]

131. Let me guess - a Halliburton subsidiary? Kellog ? 500 million 5 year deal .

seems to me I've heard this song before. Just last week.

[me b zola]

20. k&r

[Raksha]

21. K & R - Incredible speech! Daniel Ellsberg tells it like it is,

and he knows what he's talking about. He sees clearly that when/if an attack on Iran occurs, or a pretext for an attack on Iran occurs (another 9/11) that the final nail in the coffin of the Constitution will be driven concurrently. It's a two-pronged attack, and BOTH aspects of it have been in the works for a long time. I think many of us have also known this, but unconsciously. But Daniel Ellsberg states the linkage loud and clear.

[dkofos]

22. And it occurred on Dec. 12 2000.

[seafan]

25. Exactly correct. Once these criminals seized control over our voting, that was all she wrote.

And we have been jumping up and down screaming about it ever since. I am really questioning whether we will ever have a free and transparent, legitimate election again.

If we do, we have some SERIOUS housecleaning to do in Congress, especially the Senate.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Well, we were overdue for a coup ...

We hadn't had a coup d'etat since Nov '63.

Now we need another one real fast. Maybe a coup d'Kucinich or a coup d'Gore.

[Mountainman]

28. Reading about all the attacks on the constitution by republicans it really seems odd that they keep

saying the troops are fighting for our freedoms. If the troops were really wanting to fight for our freedoms they would be over here fighting this administration and all the folks supporting it.

[jonnyra]

29. I was watching the latest

Olbermann video where he exposes the rogue administrations use of bogus terror threats to coerce congress into bowing down to them and just felt so helpless. What can you do when a national figure like Olbermann reports such crimes against the state and not a ripple in the major network news fantasyland. What can we do when the MSM REFUSES...ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to expose the ugly truth to all America. What is the recourse? The press...at least the major press the feeds the bulk of Americans their "news"...is controlled by those who benefit from this fascist state and will not report the truth. Congress knows whats going on yet refuses to stop it. War crimes, the DOJ, New Orleans, LIES and more LIES. And the MSM REFUSE TO REPORT THE TRUTH.

All we can do is hope the truth finally gets through to enough Americans and the outrage produces an angry mob at the white house gates demanding an end to the lies, the crimes, the fake terror threats. Congress wont do it. Its up to We The People. We The People are the last line of defense. If We The People do not stand up for the constitution it will fall. I for one am ready to take that responsibility on.

[The Stranger]

30. But but but but but but DU is still too busy with its Two Minutes Hate to care!

Whistling past the graveyard . . .

[leftofthedial]

31. you whining liberal dirtbags!

you probably would rather have Saddam back in power!

If you obey, you don't need civil liberties. If you trust and obey your leaders, you don't need a Constitution!

you pathetic commie wimps!

[Usrename]

32. Bush longs to be the one to bring on the End Times.

Cheney just wants to blow people up for money.

It's terrifying to ponder just how few people are standing between them and their dream.

"Never in the course of human events have so few done so much for so many."

[Raksha]

77. Change just one word in that quote and you'll have it right:

"Never in the course of human events have so few done so much *TO* so many."

[lateo]

35. Bush is a domestic enemy of the Constitution

And Pelosi is his willing accomplice.

[jeff30997]

41. Sad but true.

:(

[JackRiddler]

42. Yes, this passage is the nub of it:

Ellsberg:

There have been violations of these principles by many presidents before.

.....

I think that none of those presidents were in fact what I would call quite precisely the current administration: domestic enemies of the Constitution.

------------

Yes, for all the criminality and imperialism and rapaciousness and outright genocide committed by a number prior administrations, none were as much in their hearts feeling as enemies of the Constitution. They all had some reserve of belief in that document and the republican system.

I beg to differ a bit on the next part: This is the same administration as was in power in 1981-92, under Reagan / Bush I, full of enemies of the Constitution already then. The same guys, in fact. But it's evolved now to the next logical, predictable, far more dangerous manifestation. And there have been prior coups, for those willing to see them: in establishing the postwar order, in 1963, in 1980. But Bush II is the logical culmination.

It's in the open now, barely bothering with disguise, men proudly declaring themselves enemies of the Constitution.

[jeff30997]

38. "detention camps"

I can see them being built within 5 years max.The peoples who will protest the lost of their rights

will be called terrorists and locked up.The future of your country,American friends, seems very

bleak.

:scared:

[backscatter712]

45. They're already built.

They're just called "jails" and "prisons" and there are thousands of facilities across the U.S. There's already 2.2 million people behind bars, more than any other country in the world.

And given the chronic lack of action on prison overcrowding, don't think the corrections industry won't "make room" for a few hundred thousand more. Hope you don't mind sleeping 12 to a cell...

[adigal]

49. My son just quoted Voltaire for his senior quote

"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

God help us. If you are a praying man or woman, pray.

[greiner3]

39. I still remember the secret signal;

If the republicans manage to take the WH in 2008. I'll be waiting!

[adigal]

50. I know you are kidding, but if the Repubs win

in 2008, I am buying a house in Canada for my family. And keeping a low profile.

[AmBlue]

72. I'm wondering if...

under martial law that they won't cancel or postpone the 2008 elections altogether.

[Richard Steele]

40. K&R

[Beam Me Up]

43. Expose 9/11.

The coup began with the selection of 2000 and was followed hard-on by the NEOCON's wet dream answer for their "revolutionary" changes, 9/11 itself.


We know the truth -- at least those of us who have bothered to look and separate out the solid, verifiable information from the counterintelligence BS.

Expose 9/11 or everything you fear will come true. Exposure is risky. We know that. But far far riskier it is to allow the lies to stand.

[defendandprotect]

56. No -- this coup on democracy in modern times is at least traceable . . .

to the triggering of the Great Depression -- Allen Dulles/Walker/Bush rounding up elites to finance Hitler -- cashing in American dollars for gold and shipping it to Nazi Germany --

Operation Paperclip -- the bringing of Nazi intelligence figures into America --
The phony Cold War -- and JFK's insult of calling it off!!!

The military/intelligence betrayals of both Eisenhower and JFK -- taking us not on roads to peace but on roads to war.

And the real and open political violence in the assassinations -- the long list of them --
from Dag Hammarskjold thru the 1960's . . . '70's . . .

Nixon of course moved the right-wing coup further along --
Arming right-wing fundamentalist Israel --
Destroying the Brettonwoods Accords --
Taking us off the gold standard --
Generally corrupting and selling government --
Liddy, Hunt -- licensed murderers --

Reagan's opening with the October Surprise -- followed by the coverup of Iran-Contra --
Ollie North working on overthrowing the Constitution --
Deregulating capitalism and setting up scams to drain taxpayers and the Treasury --
S&L theft and embezzlements --
Criminal attacks on US unions to destroy them --
Attacking Grenada!!!! Whaattt .. . !!!!

Bush, Sr. -- encouraging Americans to get over their "Vietnam Syndrome" --
introducing us to new wars -- Panama, Gulf War I
and then watching them abandon our soldiers inflicted with Gulf War Disease --
Destruction of Iraq's infrastructure -- and leaving depleted uranium behind to kill a half million Iraqi children.

Clinton following a Republican agenda -- overturning 60 years of Welfare Guarantees with Gore's encouragment!!!
Opening an assault on American labor with NAFTA, GATT, etal --

And stolen elections -- not since 2000 -- but long before --
READ VOTESCAM BY COLLIER -- LOOK FOR THE WEBSITE --
THESE JOURNALIST BROTHERS BEGAN TO REALIZE WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE LATE 1960'S . . ..
NOT 2000 -- !!!!

Just like the post-WWII interference by our government/CIA with liberal governments all over the world -- our own elections have been engineered for decades to keep liberals out of office -- !!!

And -- as I began this with the Great Depression -- so may we end.
Bush wants to bankrupt the Treasury . . . that's clear!!
As Tom Hartmann suggested today, the plan may be another Great Depression.

So, if anyone feels powerless now, think how much less powerful you can feel down the road.

Wake up, folks!!!!

[puebloknot]

74. Thank you for these Cliff Notes. A reading list would be good, too! nt

[adigal]

46. Here is what we do to stop them - only buy locally

I only buy from small shops. (Disclaimer: I have a small shop, and I got rid of all the Made In China s**t. Only American and European and locally crafted in my shop now.) I buy my produce from a lady who has a small shop down the street. I don't ever buy anything Made In China. If we all did this, we would cripple the irresponsible companies. Yes. We would.

[defendandprotect]

57. Right -- you have to be careful and check every garment, every purchase . . ..

I ended up with some dishes from Crate & Barrel which I had no idea were made in China!!!
Fortunately, they were very cheap -- and I'm replacing them.

I have a blouse which I'm returning cause I didn't realize it was made in China!!

Keep telling the salesclerks you don't want this stuff --

Write to the stores --

DON'T BUY IT --

[Summer93]

106. Action

I like the way you think. Take the action that is appropriate for you as an individual.

[defendandprotect]

47. First impression I have on this is that we are down to a very slim protection by our courts . . . .

and the GOP has been working on replacing any fair thinking justice official in the country with someone willing to do the fascist dance --

The protections our founders intended -- a free press and courts protedcting our Constitutional rights have pretty much been corrupted and destroyed

This took a bit of time -- and a lot of silence by our "press."

[4dsc]

53. And what will YOU do if Bush attacks Iran??

If you are like most of us here you will probably do nothing but sit on you fat asses and type little remarks as if that's going to make a difference..

Instead, we should take to the streets and shut this country down!!

[defendandprotect]

59. Democrats in House & Senate should be directing this response --

they're leading the push for an attack on Iran now as far as I can see . . . !!!!!

So, we can't count on most of them .....???

Australia just had a very interesting "Lights Out" message -- one hour of no one using electricity!!!

We need a signal "click" however -- of course, any new moves to increase pressure for attacking Iran would be clear.

No driving on weekends -- not buying gas.

We will think of many ways to do this --
turn one corporation against another -- buy one brand of gas; none others.
etal --

Don't buy from large corporatiosn -- buy local foods -- stay out of chains and franchizes --

[bdamomma]

93. if they do attack somebody will shut this country down.

:grr:

[EnviroBat]

109. Just purchased a very expensive firearm.

It's called an AR-15, and it's the scariest tool I've ever held in my hands. Fortunately, I have a good friend who has shown me how to load it, fire it, tear it down and clean it, and keep it in my home without the fear of accidentally killing a neighbor two houses away. I'm afraid of the day when I might have to use it to defend myself against Blackwater or the like. If they do start to take us to camps, I will NOT go peacefully. I'm not trying to start yet another gun control flame frenzy on this board, but it is time to fucking wake up people. We know these assholes have a mission to bankrupt our economy, to starve us all of oil and subsequently food. This war of aggression against Iran will be the end of our society as we know it. This is the PNAC vision playing out just the way they want it. That vision does NOT include any of us, you or me, controlling any semblance of wealth, holding any property, or performing any tasks other than those assigned to us. I'm a simple man. I have a little house, a Harley, and some close friends. I've got a good job where I'm relatively happy. I wish everyone could be where I am in life, at least where I am or better off, and I don't have an issue with people wanting to be where I am, I do what I can to help. Quite frankly I want to be left alone, to pursue this little life of freedom and happiness that I've worked very hard for. I'm getting the feeling lately that I don't fit with the PNAC agenda, and I'm beginning to take that personally. Quite frankly it's pissing me off. We need to start getting together, holding our own "town meetings", organize. Certainly many of us have community centers with lecture halls that can be reserved. Start posting invitations around your community, get together and talk about this shit instead of pissing away you passion on this magical internet of ours. Hold lectures that thugs can't throw people out of, and make sure the fascists pigs aren't invited. I have a feeling they will show up anyway, our "authorities" don't seem to care much for peaceable assembly these days. Document everything, video, pictures, recordings. We MUST take our country back NOW!.

[shance]

54. Many 'coups' have occurred. Perhaps the most impactful was November 22, 1963.

Because the assassination occurred with such "shock and awe", followed years later by the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Bobby, the gates were opened further for more injustices against American citizens, our Democratic form of government or any semblance of such, and of course allowed for more criminal acts, more thievery of our tax payer dollars and yes, more assassinations by "lone gunmen" to conveniently silence those trying to make the world a better place.

Then came the elections of 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006 and the men with the briefcases and their electronic voting machines and their authority to tabulate such votes.

The key to Democracy is people's participation.

Vietnam was essentially stopped by troops and citizens saying NO MORE. They stopped it and the abusers of power realized it wasn't going to happen.

So they folded up their tents......temporarily.

Towards the end of Vietnam, troops sat down and refused to go.

They were arrested, jailed, threatened, coerced and yes some unfortunately were killed to stand up for what they knew to be true.

The longer people wait to stand up, the worse the loss is for everyone.

The only way to stop the game is to refuse to play.

We have seen there are not enough people participating to stop the wheels of fascism.

Too many people are being paid off, but at what price are they being paid to lose their own freedom?

When people play into the game of fascism they will lose as well, its simply a matter a time before everyone loses because there is no loyalty, no triumph, there is only deceit and greed and destruction.

People need to begin looking more long term and realize how it is not in their best interest to be paid off to do something that will only hurt their own freedoms, way of life, their childrens futures, and of course their safety in the long run.

[dflprincess]

55. I was thinking the same thing -

that the coup began the day Kennedy was shot.

[everydayis911]

125. Yes and

Poppy was there and so was junior. But junior was probably busy stealing candy from a baby. I believe Poppy was behind JFK, and Bay of Pigs, Iran hostage situation, gas crunch, Iran-Contra and the attempt on Reagan's life. (No Loss there) I got a real kick out of seeing him cry the last time he spoke with Jeb about how they said bad things about his boy. Well at least they didn't shoot him. I wish some crazy pilot aboard Air Farce One would crash their plane nose first into Cheney's house and kill them all.

[LynzM]

67. If I could rec. a reply, I would rec. this one.

You should post this as a separate thread. So many good points. You're so right, and it's so scary. I'm not even sure people are being paid off anymore, the majority anyway, are just being trained to value their own comfort and entertainment over thought and political movements. As soon as it became shameful to be an intellectual in this country, it started.

[roamer65]

58. We need to destroy the Rethuglican party.

It must be crushed at all costs.

[defendandprotect]

60. There won't be a large actual Repug vote -- probably never has been . . ..

the thrust is with the corrupted elections -- the electronic machines --

This goes back to late 1960's -- see VOTESCAM -- look that up -- there's a website --
read about the journalist brothers and what they were investigating from the late 1960's onward with the computer voting!!!!

THIS ISN'T NEW . . .. !!!!



About Repugs . . . . they wouldn't exist if the press were giving them any challenge.
Basically, Bush wouldn't still be around if there was any challenge --
We have to make ridicule of them a more common person to person thing --
Make sure you are talking politics with relatives - with friends --
Keep talking -- getting this in the open.

The MSM will then have to follow --
You can see Fox is hanging on now, on the defensive to prove they're an actual legit network!!!!

Ridicule works very well -- !!!!

Let's go, folks!!!

[freebrew]

123. We need to get rid of Faux

We need to destroy the corporate mouthpieces.
F(ox), CNN, CBS, ABC, Clearchannel, all of them need to be brought down.
All of the traitors need to be silenced and tried for warcrimes.
There are several ways, attacking the advertisers by not buying.
Or just getting rid of the tube altogether. Unfortunately, not all will do any of it.
Get out onto other boards and you can see that either there are several paid trolls, or
there are many, MANY blind idiots still supporting the current regime.
It's scary, but not irreversible, yet. After Iran, I shudder to think.

[rndmprsn]

61. K+R Brilliant!

[C_U_L8R]

62. Chilling.

It's us or them.

[stubtoe]

65. Holy Crap! Here it all is in print!

Thank You seafan for posting this. Off to read the entire article.

[file83]

66. We're screwn.

DoublePlus UnGood.

[lligrd]

68. This Is Exactly The Scenario That So Many Of Us Have Felt

coming for so long a time now. Why do we have to wait till it really happens to do anything? And once it happens, what the hell will anybody be able to do?

[bonito]

69. Kick!

[Senator]

70. Yes, Impeachophobia Can Be Fatal To America

If you've got it, get over it.

If you're not sure if you've got it, you've got it.

If you're more "Anti-War" than you are "Pro-Impeachment," sorry to break it to you. Drop the pleading anti-war banner and pick up an attacking pro-impeachment banner.

You'll feel a whole lot better. And perhaps rescue a once-great nation.

---

[GoddessOfGuinness]

73. Once a week I call my House rep...

to express my disgust that this treasonous regime remains untried for their crimes. I'm not interested in embarrassing republicans for private behavior that I neither care nor want to know about. I want to see the same process that we put any accused murderer or larcenist through. Is it political revenge to seek an end to the abuse of our military and the senseless deaths of thousands of innocent people?

I've had no response thus far.

[rhett o rick]

102. Actually being pro impeachment or anti war are both wastes of time.

The current Congress has proven that they aren't even interested in returning this Country to democracy. Oh sure we are investigating the hell out of everything, but nothing happens when the investigation is done. The republicans are thumbing their collective noses at us and we do absolutely nothing. Well we did put poor Duke Cunningham in prison. He was their token sacrifice to appease us.

[Senator]

110. No, not exactly

First, it was "they" who put poor Duke in prison.

Second, demanding impeachment asks for something specific that is within their power -- as opposed to something vague that they have no mechanism to provide even if they had the will to do so. It is a challenge, not simply a complaint.

To equate the two is defeatist. Yes, being pro-impeachment may prove futile but it is not intrinsically a lost cause.

--

[rhett o rick]

113. How many times will Charley Brown let Lucy put the ball out of his way?

As far as I can tell, the anti-war movement and the pro-impeachment movement have had no, nada, none effect on anyone. The public is still in dream land, the republicans think it's cute, and the many Democrats think it is just an annoyance. I haven't given up but it gets harder every day with disappointment after disappointment from Congress. We are in a police state now but still in denial.

[Senator]

145. Again, not exactly

The pro-impeachment effort has gotten a bill introduced to impeach cheney (first). Gotten the public is already where they need to be -- a majority in favor of impeachment. And put the annoyed Dems on the defensive -- with their polls plummeting. Behind the Euphemedia blackout, we still have momentum.

The rethugs are only relevant at this point in so far as they might get smart enough to initiate it themselves (disaster for Dems). And if they really thought it was so "cute" they wouldn't be rushing around trying to pass ex post facto laws attempting to "legitimize" already committed, admitted, and adjudicated war criminality and felonies.

It's nice to know that you haven't given up. It would be nicer to see some evidence of that in your posts. Thanks in advance.

---

[rhett o rick]

156. Just because in my posts I try to speak out about how far we have moved into tyranny doesn’t mean I

have given up. NGU. Mr. Ellsberg is right on and lots if not most Americans are living in denial of the current situation. I get fed up with those that are trying to say everything is rosey, because it aint. I think we may have gone past the tipping point and I believe Mr. Ellsberg agrees. Doesn't mean we are giving up.

Currently the republicans are running Congress if you hadn’t noticed. We can’t get anything passed except condemnation of Moveon.org. Our Dem leaders in the Senate won’t even force a filibuster and make an issue of it. The repukes had no trouble doing that when they had the majority. We have started lots of investigations but they cooled off when the repukes told us that they weren’t going to play. And that was that.

With all due respect, if all we got for our efforts is a bill introduced for impeachment that won’t pass and the public saying they support impeachment but will do nothing to force the issue, we aint got jack. If that sounds negative i m sorry.

[Senator]

157. Good to hear, but..

...again I must say "not exactly."

Impeachment -- the effort itself -- is far from just "jack." Even if the ultimate result was a House vote being scuttled by the so-called "blue dogs," it would have at least been a substantive "objection" to the regime.

Unlike all this non-binding, posturing, pseudo-bipartisan, public masturbation -- that Jon Stewart rightly characterized as "The Democrats can't even get nothing done." -- a statement by the Party that impeachment is warranted, should happen, and is what we must attempt to achieve would send a message of principled action against, and serious confrontation with, this unlawful regime.

Regardless of how the effort "turns out," the message would be heard by the world, the public/electorate, and history. (On a craven note, it would also be an adrenaline shot to energize the base and likely double the size of any Dem victory coming in 2008.)

Beyond that, it would lay the political/legal foundation for any possible accountability that might be reached on any number of other fronts. Without it, any notion of assigning liability for bushcheneyism is just a pipe dream and all blame is rightfully cast on our once-great nation as a whole -- on the American People.

But the bottom line is -- given the circumstances -- impeachment is literally the only productive action available to the DC Dems. And each day they fail to recognize this, their own political fortunes and the ultimate result of any problem they might wish to solve, continues to waste away with their eroding reputation.

And I am not without hope that impeachment articles based on torture and war crimes could garner at least resignations, and perhaps a few GOP Senate votes -- which is really all that's required for a "moral victory." Remember that this Senate voted 90-9 in favor of McCain's Anti-Torture Law, only to see negated (impeachably) via "Rule By Signing Statement."

Sure impeachment may be a Charge of the Light Brigade. But this is not real war. Defeat is far better than retreat and surrender.

===

[rhett o rick]

158. I appreciate your patience with me on this issue. I do agree with you 1000% and have and will

continue to work towards impeachment. It is the first necessary step to regain democracy. I am afraid that my frustration gets the best of me sometimes.

[Senator]

159. Well, if they'd only have this discussion in DC...

...there'd be no need for any of our frustration. And the nation would not be in such dire straits.

Still, Olbermann gets it. And Kucinich is nearly there, as are others. Even Harry Reid let a bit of truth pop out yesterday:

Reid was not feeling so spiritual towards the president this morning, however. When asked what he has learned about the best way to get things down with Republicans, he answered, "Get a new president."

Sure, for him that means tolerate another year-plus of death and destruction first. But who knows.

Cheers.

--

[historian]

162. not negative - reality!

We are fooling ourselves if we think there is a difference between dems and repugs. Granted the repugs are a dangerous bunch of thugs but they and the dems have one thing in common - money and keeping their job. If the country sinks into a depression, or we go to war with iran or anything else you care to think about they will still be comfortable and well fed. Time to wake up and say A POX ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wildbilln864]

71. Kick damnit! eom!

[Swamp Rat]

75. k&r

[Control-Z]

76. knr n/t

[RainDog]

78. ellsberg and wolf

...and Vet. Intel. (McGovern's group) and John Dean and Bruce Fein and Paul Craig Roberts and others in the public eye who are also considered "mainstream" and who are calling this administration what it is (finally)... cannot bring themselves to admit what needs to be done. Or maybe they're afraid to say it outloud.

The people of the U.S. need to place all the bush administration key members under arrest and try them for war crimes (among other things.) Outside of that, some group of spooks needs to undo the coup. The military and CIA people who are not insane need to make a pact to stop those in the military and the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, TIA, Navy and other military branch intel...isn't it amazing how many govt. depts we have for secret operations in a democracy... anyway, there needs to be a coalition that will stand up for those who do not have as much access to power or ability to stop this anti-democratic machine.

I do not see any way that ordinary everyday americans can stop this. getting out into the streets will not stop this. maybe massive protests that would include sit downs in the halls of congress, but this would need to be bipartisan in order to get the majority corporatists in office from running away.

Cheney needs to have a medical reason to retire in some form or another and under pressure of... something... safe passage out of the country, like the Shah? -- A temporary government needs to be put in place. I honestly do not know how this is done constitutionally. What would the procedure be in the case that an entire executive branch was considered unfit to be in office?

But then, people are afraid to act before the fact. and if they did, they would not be judged fairly. It's like someone who threatens and threatens to kill someone else. until they do it, law enforcement cannot arrest them for murder... but honestly, that's how I see the Bush administration. They have attempted to murder this nation's reason for being. and we are in lawless territory now, with no one who is willing to form a solid wall of constitutional armor against them.

Since 2000, the queasy feeling has gotten worse. Every time it seems they are at their limits of their abuse of power, they trump themselves. Where is our equivalent to Bolivia's Morales?

I do have to say that if Ollie North had been brought before a military tribunal and thrown in jail for his actions that, he said in his own testimony, were right because sometimes there are people who know better than the law... this would not be happening now. If Bush Sr. had not pardoned Abrams. If Otto Reich were in prison.

We are a nation that is held hostage by a gang of criminals, and worse.

I think Cheney is batshit insane, personally. Bush is stupid insane... the way people who think they're getting radio signals from god through their iPods are insane.

sorry, but I just had to say this stuff. The whole mess just crushes my soul.

[G_j]

79. what more reason could be needed to support Kucinich now?

:shrug:

[leftchick]

91. he is exactly who we need!

:(

[gateley]

80. K&R nt

[Goat52a]

84. Hi

The concept of life here,regardless of humans is gone. Ya points are there but not there. Ya seem all are rich and happy. Well we are not. Democrats can say anything against war. But most of them are watching that war on HD. Ya do not know about poor people who have to pay for little things like gas, milk, meat, electric, vegetables and cigarettes. Hitting at poor people. All of it raising costs and still pay taxes and social security. I lose everything after giving everything and yet ya Democrats in Congress ignore me. So tell me why ya talking about this?

[Horseradish]

85. Proper usage of the word "myriad"

... always draws my respect. Why? I am not entirely sure - it's my own mystery ... but Ellsberg wins my respect and this somehow tells me he is to be listened to.

Great post.

"The president is clearly violating that oath, of course. Everybody under him who understands what is going on and there are myriad, are violating their oaths."

[Goat52a]

86. Yeb

Ya still complaining being a poet that don't know it. Being independent (voted for Kerry) I still do not understand why ya Democrats are such pussy's. Why are our troops still in Ir ag? After i voted Democrats to get them out? Pls tell me?

[chill_wind]

88. Domestic Enemies of The Constitution. We need a massive billboard campaign all over the country.

Domestic enemies of the United States.

We need a massively viral billboard campaign in every city and on every freeway. Articles of Impeachment on signs a mile high. The names of every traitor in Congress who continues to REFUSE TO SERVE THEIR OATH.

Yard signs on every corner, in every storefront window, in every yard.

When they rip them down, we put them back up. FORCE the corporate whore media to acknowledge the impeachable, indictable, imprisonable offenses of this government. If the MSM still refuses to "see", we will still, as a nation, become our own media in this one and most vital of regards. It's becoming about all that is left to us.

[Solly Mack]

89. the clock is ticking - and the alarm going off won't stop the nightmare

Can't wait for time to heal anything...gotta be pro-active...or all time does is drag on

[Roland99]

92. Bye ... bye our American life....

:(

[Vidar]

95. Ellsberg is right.

[Norrin Radd]

99. k+r

[Enthusiast]

105. The entire thing has me just about ill............

I fear for the future like never before.

One of my great fears is that the criminals will steal another election and Newt will get his wish about Medicare withering on the vine. I mean these pukes need the funds we now spend on social programs for the war machine. They can't run on that platform and get elected, even if they cheat, but they will simply deny they have intentions of dismantling the New Deal.

These fascists have about as much regard for the less fortunate as the Nazis. The evidence is pretty clear that the administration could care less about the waste and fraud in Iraq, hell they perpetrated it.

But, the very worst of my anxiety is in the realization that they are in near total control of the media. This media control has done the country more harm than any other single thing. While they cried ",The Liberal media," they consolidated their control.

[rhett o rick]

103. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,

it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...."

I neither condone nor encourage any violence but it is past time to undo this fascist police state we are in.

[halobeam]

104. when you've got nothing left to lose

thats normally when you're "ALL IN".

People aren't waiting on eight hour lines for bread yet, or at least most people aren't (I'm not aware of any that are).

When we have heat and food and a toilet, it may be NEAR impossible to keep THAT, but we still have it. (Again, most people do).

Once enough people have NOTHING, thats when they will get out there in DROVES. Thats what the camps are for, thats what the police state is ready for. Thats when the REAL SHIT hits the fan.

Not a day before. Yes, many rise up now BEFORE that happens, but OBVIOUSLY not enough (I believe that the consensus here is "why isn't EVERYONE taking it to the streets?")

This is why, imo.

People with kids around ten yrs. old aren't worried about a draft enough, to march the streets in numbers so HUGE that it CAN'T be ignored.

We wait until it's TOO LATE.

That's where the despair of those INFORMED, comes from.. we see it coming and we can't GATHER ALL TOGETHER.

What happens when you throw a march and 1% of the population shows up?

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

Cheerio... must go and watch the ocean, as dirty as it is, the waves aren't red yet.

God, aren't I a depressing sort today.

[seafan]

112. Ellsberg lays it all out. This Congress no longer represents or protects The People from tyranny.

There is where the pressure must be exerted. It's the broken rein on the mad bull.

Unless this somehow, by a change in our political climate, of a radical change, unless this gets rolled back in the next year or two before a new administration comes in – and there’s no move to do this at this point – unless that happens I don’t see it happening under the next administration, whether Republican or Democratic.

And the question is what then, what can we do about this? We are heading towards an insane operation. It is not certain. It is likely. … I want to try to be realistic myself here, to encourage us to do what we must do, what is needed to be done with the full recognition of the reality. Nothing is impossible.

Getting back the constitutional government and improving it will take a long time. And I think if we don’t get started now, it won’t be started under the next administration.

Getting out of Iraq will take a long time. Averting Iran and averting a further coup in the face of a 9/11, another attack, is for right now, it can’t be put off. It will take a kind of political and moral courage of which we have seen very little…

It's inherent in Ellsberg's words what it is we have to do.

[redqueen]

107. "known and accepted by the Democratic people in Congress"

We need Kucinich.

What were those votes on FISA again?

Which Dem in the senate answered the call from the progressives in the house after the first stage of this coup? Oh that's right... none of them.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

108. Is it me

or does Bush look more and more meglomaniacal insane in public appearances?

:nuke:

[Summer93]

111. Watching.....

Are you folks watching what is going on in Myanmar? You probably know about all of the monks marching in the streets. Tear gas and warning shots killed one and injured many. Still the columns of saffron robed monks walk, unarmed, or armed with their faith that they can do something.

Are you aware that the internet is shut down or not allowed to be used by citizens of Myanmar? Somehow the photos and stories got to the world. Through this closed country somehow the word got out. I don't know what it took for someone to get the photos onto the internet and onto M$M. The thing is it was done!

They believed that there was something that they could do and now the whole world is watching!

[passy]

114. Why isn't there a thousand recs for this post already!

[rhett o rick]

115. I did what I could. nm

[Lone_Star_Dem]

116. Powerful and motivating words

A quick K&R before I go to read the rest of the speech at Consortium News.

[DiehardLiberal]

117. Can one of you please tell me...

what the end game of the neocons is? After so many people are in detention camps, property confiscated, and they own EVERYTHING what do they do with it? There won't be anyone to buy their products and fill their coffers further. What is the prize they so desperately seek?

Thanks for any help you give - this is the one thing I can't figure out. It is obvious that we are in deep trouble.

[halobeam]

120. They'll be plenty of people left.

Fear keeps most people, happy to oblige. THAT part is alread happening in every area you look at, especially our own reps and the reporters.

[lovuian]

118. Ellsburg is just telling the Truth and unfortunately Congress

Supreme Court Justice Department and Military are not following the Constitution

[mdmc]

121. we need radical change

KUCINICH!

[defendandprotect]

149. The DLC will try to destroy Kucinich -- IMO ---

[Fovea]

126. Canary Offically on Back in Cage.

If you are of a certain age, Daniel Ellsberg is a figure of either admiration or loathing.
But here, in what is certainly not the epitome of public speaking, Mr. Ellsberg devastatingly says what most of us have been denying.

When a sane person tells you something like this in an academic address, he must suspect that this represents the last such opportunity, as Mr. Ellsberg doubtless did when he gave this speech at an American University symposium on Sept. 20.

[everydayis911]

127. I'll tell ya what they do with it

They have already raped our economic system, China owns our debt. They let China come over and take us all. The only ones who can escape are the ones with money. Bush and the Dick will be on some island with Kenny Lay sipping booze from the blender laughing at us peons who couldn't escape their wrath. This scenario only works if China and Russia don't blow us off the globe for nuking Iran.

[Cleita]

129. "Domestic enemies of the Constitution."

I like that. I tried to call them the same thing like unAmerican or antiAmerican and was called bad, ugly and a McCarthyite. I couldn't think of a more palatable word or phrase, but thank you Mr. Ellsberg you just did.

Now it's time to get Congress to investigate all these "domestic enemies of the Constitution" starting with the Carlyle Group, the PNAC, the Heritage Foundation and MelonSciafe. All those organizations have worked to get their candidates into our public offices to undermine our Constitution and to put Saudi Arabia in charge of our ME policy. IMHO this is treason.

[Sam Ervin jret]

140. Time To Drug Test THe President and Vice President BOTH and I'm NOT KIDDING

The Vice President has a history of serious medical problems. He could be on any number of medications. medications have all kinds of side effects. The president has a past history of drug use. They are both federal employees with responsibilities at least as potentially dangerous as those of a pilot or interstate truck driver (although not as helpful or useful.)

Federal Employees, truck drivers and pilots are regularly tested for drugs and alcohol.
These men who make decisions that impact the lives of every creature on this planet must account for any illness, both physical and psychological, any medications and any possible medication side effects.
Any medications taken by a sitting president and Vice president, it's actions, interaction, side effects although a private issue between Dr. and patient are of fundamental importance for WE THE PEOPLE in making our decisions as to their ability to serve.

It seems not too much of an intrusion on the liberty and privacy of this administration to ask that they tell us this information, considering THE DANGEROUS TIMES WE LIVE IN.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE EXECUTIVE (and those who may sometimes be a member of the executive branch and at other times may not be members of the executive branch) to remember if they have nothing to be ashamed of they should not mind us knowing all about what they do and who they are and what medications they are taking.

These tests must be done by an independent (perhaps several and blind studies) laboratories. Any and/or all safeguards against fraud must be taken. It is imperative that we know exactly what we are dealing with in regards to the health, and any thing that may be affecting the health, of our leaders.

If their not under the influence of drugs, perhaps an exorcism is in order. O.K. NOW I'M KIDDING! sort a'

[dogindia]

141. kick.

[rhett o rick]

142. I agree with the People's Hero, Mr. Ellsberg. nm

[Z_I_Peevey]

143. kick

[LibertyorDeath]

151. Kick

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[tom_paine]

155. Lots of people are noticing now. In 2001, Ellsberg would have been CRAZY to say that

How do I know? I said it, and was branded some serious :tinfoilhat: for saying so.

God help us all, it's now all coming to pass and it is becoming obvious (too late, just like in 1933-1936 Germany) to a great deal more people.

Thank you, Mr. Ellsberg. Your words are most welcome, even at this late date. And you are correct, there is still some small hope that Liberty will prevail over Tyranny this time.

[rhett o rick]

160. One of the most important posts here. So KICK. nm

[bobthedrummer]

161. .

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST