Question: In declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization,

[mod mom]

doesn't * already have authority to act militarily?

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq


-snip

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and

-snip


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

AM I READING INTO THIS? I WATCHED LIEBERMAN AND WEBB'S FLOOR SPEECHS. LIEBERMAN SAID THIS WAS ONLY ECONOMIC, BUT WEBB STATED WE HAD NEVER DECLARED A NATION'S MILITARY A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BEFORE.

[Atman]

1. Yes. That's the catch, isn't it.

They could have removed every other word of the resolution, but now that they've declared them a terrorist organization, BushCo can do anything -- anything -- it wants. They've already granted him that power.

.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

2. the previous congressional authorization(s) giving * power to go after terrorists/sponsors is why I

:cry:

[MadHound]

3. This thought occured to me also

That they're trying to backdoor a war with Iran. We'll see, either way it's another horrible, and telling, vote by many Democrats.

[mod mom]

4. Here is a link to lieberman & Sen Webb's floor speeches:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/09/lieberman_and_webb_speak_about.php

[blondeatlast]

5. Of course--and very deliberately manipulated the spin.

Nothing shocks me anymore. Nothing.

[Spazito]

6. I believe it does....

Bills related to the same subject matter are not passed and interpreted in isolation of each other and bush already having the authority re "terrorists", now that the Iranian Guard is now designated a "terrorist organization" the newest amendment along with the previous authorization certainly seems to give bush all he needs, imo.

[mod mom]

7. Damn guys...I wanted you to tell me I got it wrong!

[blondeatlast]

11. I hadn't really paid attention until you posted it, but yes, it makes it very clear

what they are doing.

We must never underestimate the machinations of the Heritage Foundation and it's ilk.

[Klukie]

8. I think you may be right.....

Officially labeling them a terrorist organization wasn't for shits and giggles. Something really stinks here.

[goodgd_yall]

14. Also, realize it gives justification for continuing occupation of Iraq

Bush and Cheney and the Repugs need to come up with a new reason for the American people to support our continued presence in Iraq. I suppose the Repug candidates will be using the presence of Iran's army in Iraq in their debates to persuade the American people to support the status quo.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. IWR redux. "Well, we didn't know that it would lead to war."

"If they want peace, nations should avoid the pin-pricks that precede cannon shots." Napoleon Bonaparte

[Tom Joad]

27. yeah, liked that excuse. like we have little naive children voting in Congress.

They trusted bush.
I will never give anyone who did that any responsibility. beyond cleaning toilets.

[mmonk]

10. We have to do what our leaders want.

You need to come to the realization that you are not a free person. I know it now. I'm still working at being at peace with it.

[DemGa]

12. It sounds like one step away from war with Iran to me

Maybe the step. This is just the kind of slick maneuver Bushco uses.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

13. Yes, sadly you are reading it right.

As I mentioned on another thread, a few weeks ago, Bush declared the Iran Guard -- the standing army of a country -- a "terrorist organization". That has never been done before.

And now, with this Amendment, the Senate is confirming that designation.

And, as you have so thoughtfully pointed out, Bush doesn't need no further stinkin' Congressional approval to retaliate against "terrorists".

There it is.

Son of IWR has been born.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

15. This is what I've been reading my head off trying to figure out too

As far as I can tell by the language used:

5) that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists, as established under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and initiated under Executive Order 13224;

It gives them the right to deal with the Revolutionary Guards as full fledged terrorist as defined by the Patriot Act and they can also implement the conditions of Bush's E.O. 13224.

From where I'm sitting, considering the role the IRGC play in Iran today, this gives them a door into war with Iran.

But I'm just a simple person and HOPE I'm reading all this wrong.

[blondeatlast]

16. We need three more--this is CRUCIAL.

I hadn't even thought about it until modmom pointed it out, but it's as clear--and easily overlooked--as the nose on our face.

[Klukie]

17. We need some rec. for this thread.....

[mod mom]

20. I'd rather have a logical answer as to why I am wrong. I expect our elected leaders

to be smarter than I am. :mad:

[blondeatlast]

21. We all wish for that. But you've just realized how bills are so carefully

crafted to make opposition uncomfortable or damn near impossible in a political environment.

[Klukie]

25. Here is to hoping that you are wrong.....

:cry:

[mod mom]

18. "FOOL ME ONCE....

:nuke: :cry:

[uppityperson]

19. k&r

[Virginia Dare]

22. Very sadly, this is the crux of the situation..

we've opened the door to a war with Iran. We haven't stepped through it yet, but it's open nontheless. I can only hope that cooler heads prevail and they will rethink this.

[TheWraith]

23. No, it's not an authorization.

This is one of those resolutions whose main purpose is to sound tough. They deliberately took out language that could be interpreted as allowing the use of force to "contain and roll back" Iranian operations in Iraq (which isn't neccessary anyway, since if they were to catch Iranian military in Iraq, they'd already have the powers to detain or neutralize them).

[Klukie]

29. What do make of the language that labels the military

a terrorist organazition? Do you think that the administration can use this in conjunction with the IWR to justify an attack on Iran?

[mod mom]

30. and we trust */cheney not to act? Did you watch Sen Webb's floor speech from today?

I posted it above.

[atreides1]

33. Reality doesn't really phase you does it?

Here is the IWR short version:

The Resolution required President Bush's diplomatic efforts at the UN Security Council to "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions." It authorized the United States to use military force to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

I don't seem to recall much diplomatic effort on George's part, do you? And at what point was Iraq a threat to national security of the United States?

You see, with Bush and Friends, it doesn't matter what the printed material says, the puppet Lieberman has already started the ball rolling. With Bush's executive order already in place, all they have to do now is to provoke Iran, and they will, and the brain dead American people will rise up in support of another war where brown skin people are killed for no good reason except that provided by the administration and the castrated, spineless congress.

I realize that you hope that the right thing is done, but looking at recent history, doing the right thing isn't very popular to the administration and the majority of congress!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

35. If you read this along with previous authorizations, orders, etc.,...it's a blank check.

Yet, ANOTHER blank check for the neocon cabal to take ANOTHER step in the PNAC.

Read post #15 because I believe it hints at what will now be pulled together by this executive.

These things are not treated as stand-alones but rather in toto.
Later today, I'm sure there will be plenty of pulling the pieces together for a whole picture perspective.
I'd work on it but I am too damn tired and feeling really low.

[mod mom]

36. Here is the section to read: (on declaring them a terrorist organization)

(5) that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists, as established under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and initiated under Executive Order 13224;

[Tom Joad]

24. so, you gotta problem with war? aipac likes this bill, so does the Dem leadership

(is that a coincidence?)

http://aipac.org/Legislation_and_Policy/default.asp

alternatively...
www.StopAIPAC.org

[watrwefitinfor]

26. Doesn't this mean he is free (in his eyes) to start confiscating Iranian funds?

Or the funds of anyone who assists them? Based on that Executive Order he signed back in the summer.

Wat

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

37. Oh, certainly he has the power to do that just like he did with any 'identified' terror sponsor. n/t

[TornadoTN]

28. Funny, I thought this was "all in our heads"

The coming war with Iran that is.

This is just more of the same and deja-vu all over again. The fact that so many people here are trying to say that we are overreacting just confuses the hell out of me. How many times do we get burned before we realize that we probably shouldn't be doing something like this again?

[dipsydoodle]

31. Following 9/11

wasn't the IRA declared to be the same ? Did the USA invade Ireland unnoticed ? Same applies to ETA but I don't recall anyone mentioning any issues when they've been on holiday to the Basque region.

Is the difference simply that neither Ireland nor Spain have got oil ?

[Spazito]

32. Seeing as the bush cabal WANTS to go to war with Iran

that has been made VERY clear for months, actually according to what General Wesley Clark heard shortly after 9/11, Iran was on the "list" even then, the difference is glaring, imo. No comparison in reality.

Read this link re Seymour Hersh's article from 2006, it is enlightening, imo:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/04/17/060417fa_fact

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. This would be more similar if the U.S. were occupying N. Ireland

With the U.S. currently occupying Iraq they could be more likely to assert these powers over Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps simply because it's in the better interest of their occupation.

The oil factor still comes into play, as to other factors, but they can use the occupation as a catalyst.

[mod mom]

39. plus it's not like we're giving the authority to rational leaders, these are desperate

idealogues who have proved time and time again they can not be trusted.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. Very true

These are the same people that have been snipping away at The Constitution of the United States and using the fear card to validate their actions.

They've proven time and time again that they lie, cheat and manipulate to get what they want.

No, they cannot be trusted.

[RangerRK]

34. Kucinich: Iran Counter-Proliferation Act Undermines Diplomatic Efforts

..I wish to make
clear my opposition to this bill. The bill inadvertently brought
attention to the need for diplomatic negotiations. I am concerned that
the bill will undermine diplomacy,” Kucinich said.

“Prior to the U.S.
invasion of Iraq, the Bush Administration falsely accused Iraq of
having Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The International Atomic
Energy Agency (IAEA) and the United Nations conducted inspections in
Iraq and concluded that there were no WMD in Iraq. After the U.S.
invasion of Iraq the accuracy of IAEA and the UN inspections was
inevitably verified when the U.S. found no evidence of WMD in Iraq. Has
this Congress not learned from previous mistakes? The IAEA has an
actively engaged team of experts that are closely monitoring Iran’s
activities. There is and has been a good working relationship between
Iran and the IAEA. The inspections that the IAEA perform are essential
and it is important that the U.S. does not undermine this relationship.
However, legislation such as HR 1400, which is based on the premise
that Iran has the intention of acquiring nuclear weapons, contributes
to a corrosive environment that undermines inspections performed by
proven agencies like the IAEA.
“HR 1400 seeks to
designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) of Iran as a
foreign terrorist organization and place the IRGC on the list of
specially designated global terrorists and weapons of mass destruction
proliferators....

http://www.commondreams.org/news2007/0925-13.htm

[daleo]

41. That's how I interpret it too

This is the key clause, that will be used as the legal figleaf for war.

[Spazito]

42. Kick for an important, imo, question

:kick:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

43. Kicking...

This is all you need to know about what happened today.

[mod mom]

44. Josh Marshall covering this very point at TPM (VIDEO):

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054292.php

has Sen Webb footage

[Junkdrawer]

46. Prediction:

Look for a few weeks or months of increasingly shrill demands that Iran get out of Iraq, then look for aggressive cross-border raids on the Revolutionary Guard IN IRAN.

From there, look for retaliations and who-knows-how-big false flag retaliations. Maybe a US aircraft carrier is attacked with a cruise missile. Then we attack Iranian nuclear sites. Then Iran attacks Israel. Then all hell breaks loose. Somewhere in the mix there well could be a US 'terra attack or two - certainly a lot of scares.

Bush gets the job of starting the ball rolling (everyone hates him anyhow), the next President will be the War President.

You know what is the only thing to stop the above scenario? Iraq signs the Oil Giveaway into law and Iran agrees to honor it. Then Big Oil will pull the plug on the war. Other than that...

[mod mom]

50. A little blackmail from the ole oil cronies. I wish I believed in hell.

[me b zola]

45. k&r

[Pachamama]

47. Yes....that's my interpretation....n/t

[Generator]

48. Yep give him a resolution he'll start a war

But apparently the dumb shits that "represent" us are the biggest dumb shits and enablers since I don't know when. Historical parallels anyone?

(I consider it disturbing that dumbshits is in the DU dictionary! Are we being PLAYED?) LOL, I think!

[Spazito]

49. War Inches Closer to Iran (article BEFORE the amendment vote)

U.S. Soldiers Create Military Base on Iraq-Iran Border to Halt Weapons Smuggling From Iran

Iran's role with the violence in Iraq remains a major preoccupation of the Bush administration, with the U.S. military now building a base, practically within shouting distance of Iran — an extraordinary step to curb what it says is the smuggling of advanced weapons into Iraq.

It will be called Combat Outpost Shocker, and it will hardly come as a pleasant surprise to Iran that the United States will have a new base just 5 miles from their border. Col. Mark Mueller, of the 3rd Infantry Division, said it is the first time the U.S. military will be that close to Iran.


"Obviously, they probably won't be very happy about it," Mueller told ABC's Terry McCarthy.


The U.S. accuses Iran of fighting a proxy war in Iraq, as it smuggles sophisticated roadside bombs and long range rockets into the region that kill Iraqis and American troops.

more

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3649942

Now that the amendment has passed, this news article has a greater import than when I read it earlier this morning, imo.

[Klukie]

51. Kick