Question to the Clinton Supporters: Why?

[Pawel K]

Today's vote on the Liberman amendment is just another example of why she is nothing more than republican-lite. In all the discussions I've had with you Clinton supporters around here over the last 3 or 4 months those discussions would come to a screeching halt as soon as I aksed why you supported her. So I'll give everyone here that supports her an opportunity here to explain why they support her. Please, no bullshit, no flamewars, just an honest explaination as to why you support her, I'm all ears.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Why do you want to know? n/t

[Pawel K]

4. Because its driving me batshit insane

it really is.

So many smart people around here that have fought so hard against this war and against this administration are now pissing all that away to support her. I want to know why. And this is an honest question that I can never get a response to.

[YOY]

2. The best "reason" I've gotten has been "because she can win"

Of course she could! So could just about any of our folks.

The 'pub line up sucks. They pick Rudy or Mittens and the fudies get pissed and won't vote for a Catholic or a Mormon. If they pick McCain (and they won't) he'll be Dole part II. If they pick Thompson...well that's just comedy waiting to happen.

Once the debates start we'll bury them with questions about Iraq. The public is on the anti-war side...save the backwash...

[W_HAMILTON]

9. "So could just about any of our folks"

Yeah, like Kerry?

No. Not all of our folks can win. Some aren't cut out for the cutthroat nature of a presidential election (see: Kerry). The right-wing spin machine will slice and dice guys like Obama, Edwards, and especially Kucinich.

As for the reason to vote for Clinton. Yes, "she can win" is a pretty damn good reason. If we had her as president, we wouldn't have to worry about our president vetoing that children's healthcare act. We wouldn't have to worry about our president vetoing stem cell research. I doubt Clinton would VETO a sensible timeline for withdrawal.

You could go on and on.

[Pawel K]

10. Kerry gave up before the fight even started

he could have easily challenged the results in Ohio as well as a fair amount of other states. What makes you think Hillary would have done any different?

[W_HAMILTON]

16. She wouldn't have let all the petty attacks go uncontested

For the last ten years, she's been facing the same sort of attacks that Kerry faced during the election. She's used to fighting them off. Kerry waited too long to challenge the attacks on his character, and when he responded, it was too little, too late. All it takes is the Republicans scaring the American public into believing our Democratic candidate is weak. They can call Clinton a lot of things, but "weak" isn't one of them.

[YOY]

36. That was 3 years ago

Iraq has been going on for 3 years and it's lost momentum and support as have the Republicans in general. Look at shrub support since then....and republican support in general.

The "right wing spin machine" slice and dice guys like Obama, Edwards, and Kuncinich...yes, they must remember to side with them first. There is nothing on the FOX news networks that is not staged.

"She can win" is not a good reason, but so far it looks like it is true. "I support her because she is for XYZ." is. Your stem cell research is a good reason. I'll take that.

Many of us have concerns that she would be for a full withdrawl. I have yet to see her talk about it so I cannot go by anything other than what her voting record shows...that's not rock solid but it doesn't favor her.

I also fear that Nader will run. If that's the story you're leaving it out.

The funny thing about Kucinich is that if he would have voted FOR the SCHIP act many of those who dislike him here would have called him a "hypocrite" for supporting the insurance system...it was a no win vote for him.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. It's the same song and dance

People said the same things back in 2004. They said people would be too upset with Bush, over what happened in 2000. They said they would be upset with the way the war was going. Bush was below 50% approval rating when the elections rolled around.

And we still lost.

Remember "I was for it before I was against it." Remember the wind-surfing? Remember talking about someone else's lesbian (gasp!) daughter? Remember the $400 hair cut?

These are the types of things that bring down guys like Kerry, or Edwards, or Kucinich, if he ever made enough headway to actually have Republicans go after him. These are also the same sort of silly attacks that they have been using against the Clinton's for years, and they are still going strong.

The Clinton's bounce back from the same sort of petty attacks that sink our candidates. It doesn't matter if you are the perfect candidate, if you can't win. And many of these other guys up for Democratic nominee have not shown they can win. To the average American, they haven't been on the national stage long enough. The Republicans will destroy the image of someone like Obama or Edwards, and that will be all she wrote in the presidential election. The Republicans will destroy the image of those guys, they'll run on "Bush made some mistakes but I won't make the same ones, it's ok, vote for me!"

And they'll win again.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. There is a (D) after her name

For a lot of people around here, that covers up just about every sin.

[Froward69]

5. let me help

I agree she is repube lite. with say anything to get elected syndrome. along with lots of big donations from large businesses, she is paid for too.:think: :popcorn:

[Virginia Dare]

7. I guess Biden doesn't get any big donations from large businesses?..n/t

[Froward69]

12. nope he is poor in this race

and still the best choice for America. :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: Still the question is out there why support Hillary?:popcorn:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. See Post 13

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. They Must Have Rewarded Him (Biden) For His Vote On The Bankruptcy Bill

The biggest calumny foisted on broke folks since debtors prisons...

[Froward69]

25. Bidens vote on the Bankruptcy Bill? was against.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Ummm....No

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0312-03.htm

[Virginia Dare]

6. You call her republican-lite..

then you say no bullshit and no flamewars? :rofl:

P.S. I don't support her.

[Pawel K]

8. Most of the democrats we elected last year are republican-lite

I don't see how thats a flame.

But do you see the pattern here, not a single clinton supporter has chimed in. I know its early but expect this pattern to continue.

[Virginia Dare]

15. That's BULLSHIT..

we here in Virginia voted for Jim Webb, and he's head and shoulders above the piece of shit that was in there before. Do I 100% support all of his votes? No, but I never expected to.

Kyl-Lieberman was a bad bill and the Democrats who voted for it were wrong. They'll probably regret having done so. I hope not, but right now, I think they will.

Calling out Democrats as repub-lite is not useful discourse. It's flamebait, and you know it. So don't hide behind your no flames, let's have an honest discussion shield.

[Pawel K]

20. Is it bullshit or are you in denial?

I like Webb, I really do. There are some things he has done that I do not support, but I would not call him republican lite. I wish I could say that for most others.

They just approved an amendment that labels Iran a terrorist state. They approved Bush's right to throw out habeas corpus. They passed a bill allowing him to spy on us. They continue to fund this war with no questions asked. The moveon ad (kudos to Hillary for doing the right thing on that one). Continued blind support of Israel.

And with Hillary specifically lets not forget that it was Clinton's policies that led to the death of over 500,000 Iraqi children, a death toll they knew would happen but accepted anyway.

I have to get back to work, but how you could see these people as anything less than repbulican-lite is beyond me.

[Virginia Dare]

23. You specifically said most of the Democrats we elected last

year were republican-lite..and I called BULLSHIT on it and said it was flamebait. Give me names and examples of why you designate them that way.

[Pawel K]

24. I will be happy to but I'll have to get back to you with the list

don't have the time to do that right now.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. What is your avatar licking?

ewww!

[TahitiNut]

41. What does a cat lick?

ewww!


:rofl:

[Robbien]

14. This is in the wrong forum. Candidate discussions belong in GDP

n/t

[hiphopnation]

18. god your avatar

is at once hilarious and disturbing

:rofl:

sorry, completely off-topic

what was the question?

[Mountainman]

19. I would like to know who you support and why you don't stick to supporting your candidate

rather than doing this? This seems like flame bait to me.

[Pawel K]

21. I don't support anybody as of yet.

But you can be sure Hillary will not be my candidate of choice when primaries start.

[Mountainman]

28. Well that would make a better OP I think.

[mondo joe]

22. How do you say no flamwars and then call her Republican-lite?

I'm not a Hillary supporter but I'm starting to lean that way. Here's why:

It's important that a Dem win - and any of the Dems now running are infinitely preferable to any of the Repubs.

Hillary is the best fighter of the bunch, and that makes her appealing to me. Her willingness to fight combined with her being far preferable to any of the Repubs makes her appealing to me. And contrary to your charge that she is a "repub-lite" she scores well as a liberal.

[mruddy]

27. Hypothetical: If Rudy were to switch over and become a Democrat,

would you then support him since he's a Democrat and it's important that a Democrat win? I care about which Democrat wins.

Sorry! Nothing personal, honest! I just don't see the logic in some of this.

[Virginia Dare]

29. Come on, that's silly and you know it...n/t

[mondo joe]

31. You didn't read what I wrote, did you? Let's try again:

I wrote "and any of the Dems now running are infinitely preferable to any of the Repubs".

I didn't say "anyone who runs as a dem".

[Pawel K]

30. Thank you for actually addressing the topic

I have my reasons for calling her republican-lite and I explained it in a reply above. But I will concede that I probably should not have thrown that in there when asking for an honest discussion, I'm just frustrated with this situation.

If your only reason for supporting her/getting ready to support her is electability shouldn't you wait until the primary season starts? What makes you say she is any more electable than John Edwards, Obama, or anyone else that might still decide to run such as Gore or Clark. You say to win you must fight back, what has Hillary done since we gained majority last year to fight this administration and their dangerous policies? She sides with them on these dangerous issues over and over, this liberman amendment is just another example. Supporting wiretapping was another, taking away habeas corpus was another, and there are plenty more. I agree with you that we can not afford another 4 or even 8 years of republican control, but I'm not sure we need a democrat that will not work quickly to undo the damage that they have done.

[mondo joe]

33. To follow up:

I didn't say I'm a Hillary supporter. I did say she is attractive as a candidate - increasingly so.

My only reason is not her electibility but her electibility combined with her greater appeal as President than any repubs.

I'll go with whoever wins the primary, but so far my impression is that she is the best fighter of the bunch - I don't know what more I can say than that. It's my impression.

Hillary Clinton is not the majority - the Dems are, just barely, and that includes a lot of blue dogs. Hillary isn't the queen - she can't force them to do things they don't want to do.

[Pawel K]

34. Sure she can.

She has the most media attention right now, she has all the tools in her possesion to set the debate. She almost has as much power to do this as Bush does.

And because she can't force them to vote how she wants to vote means nothing if she votes wrong on the issue anyway. So in a way they are voting the way she wants them to vote, thank the DLC.

[mondo joe]

She has to work within political reality, not the political fantasy you've concocted.

Clinton spoke against and voted "no" on the Military Commissions Act and has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act in 2007.

If you REALLY want to find out why people are Hillary supporters, you would do well to ask and accept answers respectfully.

If you don't really want to know that but want to bash Hillary Clinton instead, continue on. :-)

[mondo joe]

35. Dupe - delete

.

[mmonk]

26. They are Bill dreaming. They recognize the name.

[snooper2]

32. Because they love plutocracy and coporate power...

Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
Clinton
same shit same name
same shit same name
same shit same name
same shit same name

[IndianaJones]

37. 'cause you don't. nt.

[rinsd]

38. yeah no flame wars

"In all the discussions I've had with you Clinton supporters around here over the last 3 or 4 months those discussions would come to a screeching halt as soon as I aksed why you supported her"

Clinton supporters justify yourselves won't start a flame war. Its really an honest appeal to rational discussion.

:eyes: