Napoleon Was The Hitler of His Day. Yet, Jefferson Secured The Louisiana Purchase Without Firing...

[Yavin4]

a shot. There was no more greater feared dictator on the planet other than Napoleon in his day. Yet, through clever diplomacy, Thomas Jefferson was able to secure the Louisiana Purchase from France for next to nothing and without firing a single shot.

My point here is that, as a culture, we are innundated with stories about how great war is and how war is the only solution. Yet, we rarely hear about about how diplomacy works as well or even better.

Another great example is the toppling of Apartheid in South Africa. Didn't need to send a single troop nor fire a single shot. We brought down of the most racist nations on the planet through peaceful protests and international sanctions.

Just some thoughts for the day.

[jgraz]

1. Eh, Jefferson was a wuss

I also hear he read books.

[CountAllVotes]

2. Jefferson was

an Indian killer plain and simple.

[Yavin4]

3. Duly Noted and Understood

I never said that Jefferson was saint. The point of the post was that we rarely hear stories about how using diplomacy actually defuses conflict.

[CountAllVotes]

4. he did not bother to use "diplomacy"

he just offed the lot of them best he could.

[pampango]

6. Perhaps he used diplomacy with Napoleon, because he lacked the power

to off the French. Makes Jefferson kind of a "situational" believer in diplomacy, but still shows that diplomacy can accomplish things even when undertaken by people who pursue military solutions in other circumstances.

[ChenZhen]

5. A different viewpoint...

While out of the country, I was talking with a Welsh Canadian who was originally taught in his education system that the Louisiana Purchase wasn't entirely diplomacy. France had no significant military presence in the region and were, on some level, threatened with the prospect of war if the area wasn't in fact ceded. They took the offer, because they did not have the military leverage to alter it to any degree. His education taught him that France had the choice to follow along, or go to war over the territory and surely lose.

I wasn't taught this in American schools. I was taught it was a big bad-ass smart and diplomatic move. Who knows what is true in the matter.


BTW, the fight against Apartheid was not entirely peaceful, in any shape or form.

[Yavin4]

7. The Truth Lies Somewhere in the Middle

However, the larger point is that military intervention is not the ONLY way to solve conflicts or even potential conflicts. We need to use these examples and others to make this point.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. I was taught pretty much the same thing here, and...

primarily, Napolean was going broke in Europe so any offer Jefferson made was pretty much going to be grabbed.

Not diplomacy-- just Yankee trading with a guy when he's down.

Gadsden Purchase, setting the Canadian border... not so much diplomacy as intimidation.

[DrunkenMaster]

9. Napoleon was NOT the "Hitler of His Day"!

What a ridiculous, sad post. Get your ass into a freaking history class and learn the difference.

For shame.

[Yavin4]

10. Nice

By Hitler, I meant he commanded one of the biggest militaries on the planet and he seized lands. The comparison is apt.

People who make their points through insults have no class nor intelligence.

[DrunkenMaster]

11. the comparison is NOT apt

and anyone who has engaged in serious historical study of the Holocaust would know that. You degrade the terrible cost paid by all humanity when you make this comparison. Napoleon may have invaded foreign lands but he did NOT engage in genocide and he certainly didn't lead the obliteration of millions of individuals of all ages and genders.

Comparing a tinpot conquering dictator to the engineer of the Holocaust is shameful. It's the same disgrace repeated by the Right when they compared Saddam to Hitler, and the same mistake made by the Left when they make the same charge against Bush.

It's shameful and pathetic.

[Yavin4]

12. Your Quote, "he [Napoleon] did NOT engage in genocide "

So, what do you call African slavery in Haiti? Summer camp for Black people?

[Yavin4]

13. One More Little Snippet for You

From wikipedia:

"The storming of Jaffa was particularly brutal. Although the French took control of the city within a few hours after the attack began, the French soldiers bayoneted approximately 2,000 Turkish soldiers who were trying to surrender. The soldiers' ferocity then turned to the inhabitants of the town. Men, women, and children were robbed and murdered for three days, and the massacre ended with even more bloodshed, as Napoleon ordered 3,000 more Turkish prisoners executed.