Five skinny models barred from Madrid catwalk

[Swede]

Five models were declared too thin for the catwalk at this week's international designer show in Madrid, a doctor in charge of vetting them said on Sunday.

Last year, Madrid's Cibeles became the first high profile parade to bar models whose ratio of body weight to height was so low it was deemed an unhealthy example to the public

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2007-02-11T182642Z_01_L11830693_RTRUKOC_0_US-SPAIN-MODELS.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C3-entertainmentNews-3

[mzmolly]

1. Good good good!

:toast:

[northzax]

2. wo, what do you think

will this devolve into mass flaming and screaming, like an equivalent thread about less than skinny people? I say no. discrimination against skinny people is perfectly acceptable, I bet.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. The models generally tend to be anorexic when they get that thin.

I'd say overall it's a good thing not to uphold anorexia as being desirable.

[northzax]

14. and most people who are obese

are that way because of lifestyle, not genetics. so if it's ok to ban someone from working because they are too thin, then it is ok to do the same to someone who is too fat.

right?

[Momgonepostal]

65. Remember this is modelling

haven't they already effectively "banned" the obese? How many fat women do you see on catwalks?

The clothing industry hires on looks all the time. Why is this suddenly bad?

[Katherine Brengle]

67. Actually, I'm sure some people won't like this, but I agree with that --

if size is a part of one's job description, then by all means employers should be able to judge based on it.

Being obese IS a choice for at least 90% of obese people.

[Clark2008]

7. No discrimination against skinny people - just "discrimination"

against the methods employeed by many to BE that thin.

Granted, some people naturally are very skinny, but the vast majority of us simply aren't naturally at 5 percent body fat without starving, purging or dieting to excess.

[northzax]

15. and some people are natuarally fat

but most people need to work hard to be obese, I am not discriminating against fat people, I am discriminating against the ways people get fat (diet, lack of exercise, etc) see?

[1monster]

20. You must be a skinny person to have the misconception that most

people have to work hard to be fat.

It ain't true.

I have known people who cannot seem to gain weight, like my stepson whose normal weight is eighty-five pounds. I once managed to get him to gain nine pounds up to ninety-four pounds, but it didn't last long. He's five feet tall at thirty years old. On his maternal side, the whole family is slim. On the paternal side, the whole family tends to slimness.

I've known others who work very hard to stay slim, with less than stellar results.

The brain has a set point for weight. As to how that set point is reached or when, I don't have a clue. But when one falls below that set point, one's metabolism slows down markedly and one tends to gain back any lost weight plus a few pounds more.

When one goes over the set point in a short time (without first losing weight), one's metabolism speeds up slightly to get back to the set point. If one gains weight slowly, by about a half pound per month, the set point also goes up.

If one loses weight slowly by the same amount, one is more likely to keep it off. However, it is difficult to lose only a half pound per month and not be daunted by the slow results.

[northzax]

24. no doubt that it is hard to lose weight

for most people. but it is equally hard, for most people, to get morbidly obese, even 30 pounds overweight, takes a lot of effort, a lot of denial of the problem. it works both ways.

yes, there are genetic freaks on both sides, people who will be skinny no matter what, and people who will carry a lot of fat no matter what, but frankly, those are in the strict minority. most people who are outside the mainstream for body proportions are there for reasons of lifestyle, diet and exercise (or lack thereof)

take a really, skinny person: the odds are that person either doesn't eat enough, exercises too much, or has a tapeworm.

take a fat person: the odds are that person eats too much and doesn't exercise enough.

[Goblinmonger]

57. When the obese

are put up by the fashion industry as the standard to which all young girls should aspire to, I will agree with you completely. Until then, the distinction is pretty clear. The use of anorexic models is causing young girls to become anorexic so that they can have the look. That is not good and I applaude the fashion industry for finally taking some steps.

[northzax]

59. but this isn't the industry

this is the government. that's my problem.

[Goblinmonger]

61. That's not what they article said

Unless I am ignorant about the connection between fashion shows and the government in Spain (which I may very well be), the article says that the fashion show was the one to bar models below a certain BMI.

[Lurking Dem]

62. I don't know where you got this idea.

It is show organizers/fashion industry deciding this.

[treestar]

37. That is so true

When I was a teen and in my 20s, I was skinny no matter what I did. Now, I'm a bit overweight, no matter what I do.

People come in all sizes and it's not simply a matter of discipline. My self discipline is far greater now than it was when I was younger, yet I weigh more now than I did then. I personally know it has nothing to do with all that.

Thin people who smoke have that as a crutch too. That's no "virtue."

This is a topic we as a society really need to "lighten up" on. :hide:

[Katherine Brengle]

69. Sorry, bs-meter going off.

"No matter what I do" is so overused by people. And for the record, I used to weigh over 200 lbs myself, at 5'2".

You know why? Because I ate poorly and didn't exercise.

The problem isn't that nothing works, it's that people don't have the right information -- commercial diets and conventional nutritional "wisdom" are a load of crap. Of course people think they can't do it when they are set up to fail.

If you truly eat the right way and exercise the right way, it DOES work, and yes, for everyone (barring severe untreated metabolic disease).

(For the record, I'm not judging you, just exposing a common problem.)

[treestar]

72. I worked out a year and weight did not budge

Then when I was younger and slimmer, I worked out, too, and it made no difference.

I still do it though, because it has other benefits.

All I know is, I eat far less than I used to. Other people eat less and weigh more or eat more and weigh less.

Some of it, at least, is due to other factors, like genetics or medications or the like. Then just getting older tends to have the effect that your metabolism slows down, at different rates for different people.

[Clinton_Co_Regulator]

22. Interesting points northax

I looked like the singer from the Black Crows when I graduated high school. And that was 4000+ calories a day, years of weight training, years of weight gainer drinks, etc. I do applaud them for trying to slow the anorexia out there a bit. Just not sure if this is the right method?
Then again, maybe these Dr.s have a good history on each patient, and ca make an educated guess as to which ones are naturally skinny and which one are unhealthy?

[Clark2008]

34. Sure...

But most of them aren't models and, because of said discrimination, many "fat" people aren't adorning magazines and influencing young people to starve in order to stay thin rather than accept who they are.

But, yes, I agree - there shouldn't be ANY weight discrimination.

[Katherine Brengle]

68. I disagree.

People may be genetically predisposed to being not-so-skinny, but genetics is a very small part of one's weight.

Diet is the main factor, followed by exercise, THEN genetics. It's the scapegoat, not the cause.

[wryter2000]

9. This isn't natural thinness

It's pathological dieting and/or purging. That's what killed Terri Shiavo. About 10% of people who have eating disorders die of them. (I believe. Haven't looked at the statistics lately.)

[1monster]

21. Karen Carpender comes to mind. She died from a heart ailment

caused by anorexia and bulimia. I think she was 32 years old at the time and had been struggling with both diet problems for many years.

[wryter2000]

25. I thought so, too

But I wasn't sure, so I didn't mention her.

[Beaverhausen]

33. Right- these models are thin to the point of being very unhealthy

I believe that some of them actually stop menstrating. They have screwed up their metabolism so much that certain organs nearly stop functioning.


This is from the article:

>>The use of underweight models promoting the ultra-slim look has dominated much of world fashion since the 1990s, and was epitomized by British supermodel Kate Moss.

But it has come in for sharp criticism following the death of Brazilian model Ana Carolina Resto from complications derived from the slimming disease anorexia.<<

[tridim]

12. "Discrimination against skinny people is perfectly acceptable"

Absolutely. I'm a genetically skinny guy and I get "Wow, you're skinny!" all the time. People don't realize it's exactly like going up to a fat lady and saying, "Wow, you're fat!".

Now women can't be fat or skinny at risk of being discriminated against. I completely understand that anorexia is a bad thing, but some people are just thin by nature.

[northzax]

13. I get the same thing from being tall

"Hey, how tall are you?" to which I routinely reply "how much to you weigh?" and people get all offended.

[Goblinmonger]

58. Yeah, except tall and skinney

are traits that people aspire to and society deems is important. Short and fat aren't. So if you think "wow, you're tall" is the same as "holy crap you're fat," it just ain't.

[laundry_queen]

17. There's a difference between naturally thin

and anorexic thin. If you've ever seen someone who is truly anorexic, you know what I'm talking about. Holding those type of models up as the bastion of style and health would be similar to holding up a 700lb woman as a 'healthy overweight type'. Neither extreme is healthy and both can be, and are, life threatening.

[treestar]

18. As a kid I was skinny

It was always commented on. But I didn't take it badly, since it was delivered as a positive thing. I'm so jealous you're so skinny, blah, blah, blah. Which of course reinforced the idea that it is desirable.

[LeftyMom]

27. I get that crap too, and really catty remarks from fat women

and I'm not unusually thin, I'm just not fat.

[treestar]

19. As a formerly skinny person, I am terribly offended by this

These poor models worked damn hard to be as skinny as possible, too! Now what? They have to go out and eat! It is ridiculous how skinny people are treated by society. Constantly admired, told they are the object of great jealousy, sought after by the opposite sex (or the same sex if that is their preference)! :sarcasm:

[grace0418]

41. It's changing standards, not discrimination.

It's saying that it's not acceptable to glorify unhealthfully thin women (many who have willfully starved themselves because of increasing competition) because it forces women to feel like size zero is too fat. There is no need to have rules against fat women being in fashion shows because they are never allowed in the door in the first place.

[northzax]

44. doesn't matter

it is the government saying "you need to be a certain size to do this work"

[Lurking Dem]

45. When people start keeling over dead

governments do stuff like that. That's why you have to wear a seatbelt and it's illegal to advertise cigarettes on tv.

These are not girls who are naturally skinny. They are tall women with the body mass indexes of 10 year olds.

[grace0418]

49. Well, there *should* be physical requirements for many professions.

Astronauts need to be able to physically withstand the challenges of space travel. Flight attendants need to be able to fit comfortably in narrow airplane aisles. Professional athletes must train in order to have stamina and strength to go along with their natural abilities. And people who are held up as the ideal of physical beauty *should* be held to some kind of physical standard. Their physicality *is* their livelihood.

Yes, there are overweight models that may appear unhealthy, but they are always modeling for a niche market. Never have any plus size models simply worn couture fashion on the runway without comment. It's always in the context of that plus size niche. But plenty of terribly underweight models walk the catwalk, and the implication is that *they* are the ideal, not a niche market.

Should a very overweight or very underweight person be discriminated against for jobs that aren't defined by physicality? Absolutely not. I don't care if my accountant, mail carrier, garden center worker, waiter, or cab driver is fat or thin. But I *do* care if someone horribly unhealthy is gracing the cover of every magazine as the paragon of physical perfection to which I am supposed to aspire- or worse yet, to what impressionable pre-teen girls are supposed to aspire.

[SmokingJacket]

51. Neither fatness nor skinniness is a protected class.

You'll never see a 400 pound jockey -- or a 400 pound model, for that matter. It IS okay to discriminate on the basis of size for some jobs.

[northzax]

56. that isn't what is happening here, though

this isn't a private industry discriminating, it is the government mandating a restriction that is irrelevant to the industry as a whole.

[Lurking Dem]

60. It is not the government.

It is the Madrid Fashion Show imposing restrictions.

[rock]

3. They must be giggling with delight!

[AndyA]

4. I'm glad to hear this.

The image of being super skinny is so bad for others. It sets a bad example for young girls especially, who believe that they must be bones with skin draped on them to be attractive to others, and to themselves.

I had a friend who had an eating disorder and it just broke my heart, because you couldn't seem to get it across to her that being too skinny was not good. Her mother was overweight, and had once been a real beauty, but she found the weight on her mother disgusting.

We tried everything, and finally she had to be admitted to a clinic for eating disorders. She was better when she came out, but we still had to make sure she ate. We told her we loved her, told her how much better she looked, and she seemed to believe us but I still am very concerned about her.

She has put on weight and seems to keep it on, and I do go out of my way to tell her how nice she looks when I see her. And she really does look great. But her mom is also beautiful, because she is a kind and generous person who will do anything she can to help others. And she has a great sense of humor which no doubt has helped her get through this ordeal with her daughter.

Some of today's stars are just too thin, and I don't find that attractive at all. Give me Marilyn Monroe over Calista "Ally McBeal" Flockhart any day.

Edit: To correct spelling.

[BlueJazz]

6. You forgot the picture....Damn...They Are skinny...

[dogday]

10. Oh my

They are nothing but bones, no skin even... Now that is thin :shrug:

[wryter2000]

8. You go, Madrid

Not only is that thinness bad for the models, but it creates a ridiculous body image for other women. I wish every fashion venue would do this!

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Actually, The Designers Wanted That For A Long Time

What the designers wanted wasn't "women". They wanted human clothes hangers. They didn't want voluptuous. They didn't want people looking at the women. They wanted them looking at the clothes! This was encouraged by the designers for decades, and now they're trying to act responsible.

Well, look who just caught up.
The Professor

[William Bloode]

16. Thanks for the view.

I had never thought that the phenomenon stated because designers wanted folks looking at the clothes instead of the women. Thanks for giving me an alternate view on this.

With that view it tends to make so many look foolish. The foolish part coming from people who thought models looked so thin because designer held that up as beauty, when in fact if the above is true, then they thought the skinny ones were actually the less attractive.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. I Didn't Say It Was Right Or Smart

Just what happened. If the clothes were all that mattered, they should have built robots. Then they really would be clothes hangers.

The Professor

[William Bloode]

35. I did not say it was right, or smart either.

Just that if thats the case it is kinda an extreme irony. Designers put clothes on ultra thin models so folks look at clothes, not models. Yet despite this fact people take all these skinny models to be the optimum in beauty, because the designers use all the skinny ladies.

Basically the put on what they thought were less attractive ladies. Yet due to their use of said ladies, this standard became the standard of beauty due to the fact that so many just assumed what i did. Which was they chose the thinner ladies because the designers thought they were the more attractive.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Yeah. Go Figure

I knew you didn't say it. I was just making sure you knew i wasn't excusing it, merely describing the reason. I'm not a fan of the heroic chic look, and never have been. My wife was a little bitty thing when we were young, but she never looked unhealthy thin. (About 5'2" and a 100 pounds.)

But, you're right. The whole thing became a weird downward spiral. The thinner they got, the thinner they needed to be. Then, 30 years later, someone figures out that it was a bad idea. Sheesh! What rocket scientists they must be.

Like i said, go figure.
GAC

[TalkingDog]

42. *giggle* heroic chic....I gotta see that....

Yes, I know what you meant.


/Still funny

[ProfessorGAC]

46. One Word For Me: Duh!

The Professor

[Odin2005]

52. Some stupid rightwinger told me that it was because the designers are gay.

This right-wing bigoted moran apparently thinks gay = likes prepubescent boys :crazy:

[William Bloode]

53. I bet that was more of the rightwingers mind leaking out than he would have liked.

Said a bit more than he shoulda. Ya know what they say about "you do protest to much". ;)

[Odin2005]

54. LOL.

[raccoon]

23. After only 30-40 years! :rollleyes:

"and now they're trying to act responsible."

[ProfessorGAC]

30. Exactly My Point

I just forgot to roll my eyes! Thanks for the empahsis.
GAC

[quiet.american]

26. I finally took a look at NY Fashion Week over the weekend.

Purely from an asthethic viewpoint, it was painful to look at some of the models, who were literally walking skeletons with flesh stretched over them. And I found myself being disgusted with designers who make this the standard to be hired to work in their shows.

I haven't watched fashion shows for some time, and so haven't seen the gradual move from the curvy, muscular Naomi Campbell to the literally ribs-sticking-out ideal of beauty. Naomi in her heydey would be considered obese by runway standards today!

It was difficult to enjoy the designs looking at these painfully, horribly emaciated young women.

[wryter2000]

28. Can you post some pictures?

I tried googling but didn't find any good examples.

Some folks is this thread are confusing natural thinness with the starved look we're actually talking about.

We're not talking Barak Obama (skinny kid with the funny name -- his words) thin here.

[tridim]

31. Actually that's kind of the point I'm trying to make

I'm "Obama" skinny myself and people think it's just fine to point out my skinniness in public. The stigma is different for skinny males because 10-20 pounds overweight is the norm. 10 pounds underweight (aka healthy) is considered rail thin and worthy of "good natured" public ridicule for males. Unfortunately it's the other way around for females with emphasis on the lower end of the scale being forced as the norm. That's certainly a problem.

[wryter2000]

47. It certainly is a problem

We shouldn't be picking on each other for their appearance, unless they go out of their way to look strange.

[quiet.american]

32. Yes, to clarify, I'm talking about deliberately emaciated vs. slim and trim.

I, myself, have been one of those "skinny" people for most of my life, 5'10 & 120 lbs on average (of course, now that I've hit my forties, goodbye effortless slim) but what I saw walking those runways for the most part can't be healthy.

People can catch fashion week on YouTube if they want to see some examples.

[kineneb]

38. We are talking the "starving" look here, folks. Not just skinny.

A friend sent me an email with photos of models; they looked very unhealthy, like the pictures of starving children in a famine. Not healthy skinny, but one cold away from serious hospitalization.

go to Google Images and type: "skinny models"

[LostinVA]

40. Make sure it wasn't the Snopes email

There's one going around with tres fake photos.

[kineneb]

66. saw that one, but here are 1950s models for comparison

They look thin but healthy. Normal looking by comparison to modern models.

[Rex]

39. I wish the fashion industry would just tell me what to believe and think!

First they want 'skinny' models, because fat people just can't do anything right and, Heaven knows, look so...fat. :sarcasm:

So what is it, fashion world!?! Is there a perfect weight/height I should be? I know I laugh at the crap I see on models on the TVEE.

At least this issue is being addressed (I doubt for the right reasons).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Fine with me.

They set weight limits in boxing. I see no reason not to do it with modeling.

[arikara]

48. There is good reason for it

http://eatingdisorders.suite101.com/blog.cfm/skinny_models_are_dying

Uruguayan supermodel Luisel Ramos was gaining momentum in her modeling career and strutted her stuff down the catwalk last month to rapturous applause from the audience and fashion industry.

The 22 year old thought she was "making it big" last month after her agency said that she had what it took as long as she lost a few more pounds, which she was doing. In fact, for 3 months she had reportedly eaten nothing but salads and greens and drank only Diet Coke.

Indeed, she did reach the elusive size zero that the fashion world so openly aspires for. But minutes after stepping off the catwalk, she complained she didn't feel well and dropped dead from a heart failure.




These aren't her, but it is what the industry has been demanding. Apparently Luisel Ramos who was tall and lean was told she'd get more work if she was thinner. So she starved herself to death.

[Beaverhausen]

50. This is so wrong. Shame on whatever designer(s) sent her out on the catwalk

That is just disgraceful. Does anyone think this is attractive?

[incapsulated]

55. Jezus Christ

I'm not one for pointless legislation but that is horrid and I understand the reaction. Fuck them all. :mad:

[LostinVA]

64. THat's not a real photo, per Snopes

[incapsulated]

70. Doesn't really matter

The girl starved herself to death with their encouragement and was getting work while she did it. I doubt she looked much better.

[LostinVA]

76. I know starving herself was bad

However, the fake photos are all over online as real. The problem is bad enough, the reality is bad enough.

[Lurking Dem]

71. This one is.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/09/13/skinny_narrowweb__300x454,0.jpg

[LostinVA]

77. Yup -- horrible, that women are doing that to themselves

[Beaverhausen]

74. the photos on snopes are obviously fake

http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/models.asp

The photos originally posted are real.

[seabeyond]

75. some of the real ones to prove a point? arent all that much better than the sick ones n/t

[seabeyond]

73. that is sick. just SICK. shame n/t

[Lurking Dem]

63. Restaurant offers skinny models free meals

Restaurant offers skinny models free meals

Mon Feb 12, 11:54 AM ET

LONDON, Feb 12 (Reuters Life!) - Size zero models in town for London Fashion Week now have one less excuse to skip a meal.

A restaurant popular with celebrities and fashionistas in the British capital is offering free food to skinny models who have come under attack for promoting a stick-thin image which critics says encourages eating disorders in young women.

Bumpkin restaurant in trendy Notting Hill is offering models with a Body Mass Index (BMI) of less than 18 the opportunity to gorge on fish pies, lamb burgers, king prawns and scallops.

"If I could recommend a dish to a size zero model, it would be a charter pie containing leeks, chicken and bacon; it's enough to keep you warm and energised all day," Bumpkin general manager Dariush Nejad said in a statement on Monday.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070212/wl_nm/fashion_skinnymodels_restaurant_dc_2