Search and seizure

[WileEcoyote]

It was a week ago yesterday. A helicopter was flying in circles seemingly around my house. I reckon it was only two hundred ft. up above the ground.

LOUD!

After twenty minutes it was a really bothersome nuisance. However after an hour it was giving me a headache.

A full one and a half hours after the chopper made it first pass I receive a knock on the door. Two sheriff's deputies are waiting outside. They are looking for an abducted ten year old Black boy.

Well on the positive side at least they're caring about non White kids too.

They indicate they want to search the home and yard. I consent however it wasn't my idea of a good way to spend the afternoon. Figure that with my home checked off their list they can go on to the next place quick and (hopefully!) find the kidnapped kid...

OK but what if I had a small stash of marijuana plants growing? I didn't and there's nothing ethically wrong with that. yet in the olden days it could have been a real possibility. Acting on that thought I asked a friend of mine who is a cop down in San Jose what he would do. He replies that it was usually up to the "officer's discretion" about making an arrest in an unrelated crime noticed during a house to house search. That the officers would consider the likelihood of the impact to the community by busting folks who would otherwise not break laws. That and the chance of receiving future cooperation from the neighborhood.

Sounds like a sure fire way to give a pot grower a heart attack.

My point?

Well with civil liberties being eroded on a near daily basis don't be too surprised if or when these "Door to door searches looking for an abducted kid" start becoming a ruse to spy on ordinary Americans.

I'm sure someone has already thought of that by now...

[PDJane]

1. I'm quite sure they have...........eom.

[Trillo]

2. "get a warrant" n/t

[havocmom]

3. Show your receipt upon demand

Show your home upon their say so

Slippery slopes everywhere these days.

[WileEcoyote]

4. I wasn't in any mood to dispute the search

And actually wanted to get out of the officers way so they could continue and find the real perpetrators. Or the kid himself.

First that happens if you ask a cop for a warrant: They'll send a posse and a judge. Next thing you know i get tickets and moving violations just for being alive.

Had it been for some other reason than an abducted kid i might have decided to F with them. Just for the fun of it.

[Trillo]

5. Why is demanding they follow the law, "F with them"?

Seems a curious attitude.

[WileEcoyote]

10. They expect a completely subordinate response

anything else they perceive as "f'ing" with them.

In the right circumstances I'll usually do just that. Then watch to see their reaction. This wasn't the proper place for that. My goal was to be rid of the mindless cretins ASAP.

Are all police officers "mindless cretins"? No of course not. However we must assume that they are at first glance. They've earned the reputation through the war on drugs and other job security programs.

[Trillo]

12. I apparently view the warrant, and police interaction, differently.

It's not "F'ing" with the police to demand a warrant. It's more like dotting 'i's and crossing 't's.

Modern life is based upon rules. Rules regarding search and seizure in the United States have been drilled into our collective consciousness during multiple redundant constitution lessons in K-12 school, in media shows, in newspapers, etc., ad infinitum. When any problem arises in life, either there is a rule for it to be dealt with that was devised in the past, or it's a new situation requiring a new rule. Search and seizure are not new situations requiring new rules, indeed, they are core rules or laws of police restraint and citizens' rights written into our founding documents.

While it's wonderful to idealize a world without rules and to live solely in the moment, making unique decisions at each moment, it is not the life we live in reality.

My personal belief is that I'm not going to be able to physically stop the police from entering my home if they don't have a warrant and they intend to enter anyway: I can only legally stop them. So, stating to them "May I see the warrant", and if a sales presentation follows, "Get a warrant". By making it very clear that they do not have my 'voluntary permission' to enter, then in the 'absence of a warrant' they become the lawbreakers.

I understand this lawbreaking can be prosecuted in court.

It is not difficult for police to get a warrant provided they have probable cause, indeed, my non-legal understanding is that it is nearly trivial for the police to acquire a warrant, they do it everyday. Were a search without a warrant to occur in someone's home, against the occupant's permission, those searching are the ones who will have crossed the line of legality, and they are the ones doing the "f'ing".

Requesting the rules be followed has nothing to do with "f'ing" with the police, at least from my viewpoint. Think of it more like, "Don't forget to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's!"

[havocmom]

6. It's a tough call. One really does want any missing kid to be found fast & safe

One wants to believe their local law enforcement is on the up & up, good neighbors and all. But one isn't naive anymore. Makes it difficult to make quick decisions.

I would likely open the door and allow the search, but then I live in a VERY small community and if the law does anything untoward, the locals just remove them from office. The local law also know the population here is decidedly well armed, so everyone is VERY polite at all times.

Different in a city. I have enough former cops in my clan to know there are good guys and bad guys on just about any fair sized force. Sometimes a search is just a search. Sometimes, it can be a shakedown.

Tough call. Our lives are getting grayer all the time. Gray area on slippery slopes.

But I won't show no stink-ing receipt ;)

[lligrd]

7. No Way - Nobody Enters My House Without Being Invited

Besides, how often have they found a kid stashed in a house by going door to door?

[safeinOhio]

8. My Teeshirt says

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, and then used against you". I'm going to put "I do not consent to any searches" on the other side. Also, "Am I free to go". I also donate to the ACLU.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. One quick and easy way to solve that would be to LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.

It's fucking ridiculous that we still waste tax dollars to keep people from growing a relatively harmless plant.

[Squatch]

11. NEVER consent to any search without a warrant

"Well with civil liberties being eroded on a near daily basis..."

Or, in your case, freely surrendered.

[WileEcoyote]

13. Not exactly

It's a matter of common sense. I simply wanted these cops to be gone. Calling attention to the matter by refusing their entrance would have carried the matter on into extra innings.

As such the way it worked out they were gone in five minutes.