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Nuking The Filibuster... Should We Hoist Them On Their Own Petard ???

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:27 AM
Original message
Poll question: Nuking The Filibuster... Should We Hoist Them On Their Own Petard ???
From Today's NYT Editorial: In Search of a Congress

<snip>

If you were one of the Americans waiting for Congress, under Democratic control, to show leadership on the war in Iraq, the message from the Senate is clear: “Nevermind.” The same goes for those waiting for lawmakers to fix the damage done to civil liberties by six years of President Bush and a rubber-stamp Republican Congress.

The Democrats don’t have, or can’t summon, the political strength to make sure Congress does what it is supposed to do: debate profound issues like these and take a stand. The Republicans are simply not interested in a serious discussion and certainly not a vote on anything beyond Mr. Bush’s increasingly narrow agenda.

On Wednesday, the Senate failed to vote on two major bills. One would have restored basic human rights and constitutional protections to hundreds of foreigners who are in perpetual detention, without charges or trial. The other was the one measure on the conduct of the Iraq war that survived the Democrats’ hasty retreat after last week’s smoke-and-mirrors display by Gen. David Petraeus and President Bush.

There were votes, of course, but not on the bills. They were cloture votes, which require 60 or more Senators to agree to cut off debate, eliminating the possibility of a filibuster, so Senators can vote on the actual law. In both cases, Democrats were four votes short, with six Republicans daring to defy the White House.

We support the filibuster as the only way to ensure a minority in the Senate can be heard. When the cloture votes failed this week, the Democrats should have let the Republicans filibuster. Democratic leaders think that’s too risky, since Congress could look like it’s not doing anything. But it’s not doing a lot now.

The country needs a lot more debate about what must be done to contain Iraq’s chaos and restore civil liberties sacrificed to Mr. Bush’s declared war on terrorism. Voters are capable of deciding whether Republicans are holding up the Senate out of principle or political tactics.

The current Republican leadership, now in the minority, has organized its entire agenda around the filibuster. In July, the McClatchy newspaper group reported that Republicans were using the threat of filibuster more than at any other time in the nation’s history.

Remember, this is the same batch of Republican senators who denounced Democrats as obstructionist and even un-American and threatened to change the Senate’s rules when Democrats threatened filibusters in 2005 over a few badly chosen judicial nominees. Now Republicans are using it to prevent consideration of an entire war.

<snip>

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/opinion/21fri1.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1190379721-qmYMD/kY1klX6+vb5B0GCA&oref=slogin

My question is this: Should the Democrats in the Senate, CAN the Democrats in the Senate, change the filibuster\cloture rules? I don't like this necessarily, but desperate times and all...

It would at least let important issues come to the floor for a full debate and vote, it would show the country that the Democrats have some guts, and I think it would keep people from giving up hope between now and 2008. In fact, it might just get Democrats MORE votes in '08 and and increase our majorities in both houses of congress, as well as give us the presidency.

We simply cannot afford 13 more months of looking like wet noodles!

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. No.
There's got to be another way. What if the dems did NOT agree by UC, to a cloture vote? I think there was a kos piece to that effect.

The filibuster should remain.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Of course there's another way - simply stop sending bad shit thru...
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 11:31 AM by BlooInBloo
... and wait til after the next elections.

EDIT: That's no good for DUers, though, because it's not IMMEDATELYGIMMEGIMMENOWNOWNOW.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You
forgot: It's all about memememememe.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. heh. There no "gimme" without "me".
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. IIRC - the "nuclear" option can only work for appointee confirmations
because of the way the Senate rules are written. So we could negate the filibuster for appointees, but for all regular laws it cant be changed.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thank you
That's what I thought. I remember that from when the whole nuclear option was being bandied about.

Why don't you do an OP on that?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Do You Have A Link For That ???
Seriously... I'd love to see what the rules are. I know it was threatened by the rePukes for Judicial nominees, but I wasn't aware it was encoded into the rules. Would love to see those rules.

Thanks in advance!

:hi:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. They should read their own headlines
No matter what is going on, they always phrase it as Republicans winning.

They could have said Republicans Block Troop Support, but they phrase it Democrats Lose Again.

Then they beat the Democrats for the climate that they created.

And everybody joins them.

I'd like to hoist Eli Pariser on a petard.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. I voted "tweener" - make them read from the phone book!
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 11:46 AM by backscatter712
My rationale is that the filibuster should be an option for those bills that are so onerous, so obnoxious, that the minority has to game the system to block them. But the filibuster should not be used lightly just to change the required number of votes from 50 to 60. It should be a pain in the ass.

So I say we abolish the Rule 22 virtual filibuster, and make Senators who want to filibuster break out their phone books and Foley catheters and play Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Every single time. Besides, it makes for great political theater. :D
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's Pretty Much Where I Am Too !!!
:hi:
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Wiregrass Willie Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Make them filibuster
Threats of filibusters don't get on the evening news. Filibusters do. Let the American people see who it is that is thwarting their will.

These guys who cave in to the "threat" of a filibuster are totally chicken shit.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but leave things as they are...
I don't like the "If you don't play the way I want, I'm taking my ball and going home!" bullshit embraced by the Republicans...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. No chance we would do that.
We aren't even going to attempt to impeach in the House though we have the numbers. The war will continue. The lies will continue.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You're Right... What The Hell Was I Thinking ???
:banghead:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. Night Kick !!!
:kick:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-22-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. One Last Kick From Me
:kick:
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