As a parent whose anti-war child protests on his college campus

[OzarkDem]

I'm disturbed at attitudes on DU about student protest.

I've raised my children to be politically aware from from the time they were in diapers. They've attended political rallies, met Dem leaders and candidates and learned about the issues. They've also learned to form their own opinions about politics and discuss them with other kids their age. Their opinions often end up being farther "left" of my own but I feel they're entitled to form their own opinions and learn from experience.

The environment they've been part of in high school and college has been very different than what we experienced in the 1960's and 70's. Their fellow students are much more cynical and politically conservative. Being a liberal and a Democrat isn't easy for the younger generation today.

Since going away to a midwestern college campus in a conservative area, my son has been exposed to a lot of ugly things. He was hit and nearly killed by a redneck in an SUV who ran a red light (I kid you not) walking to campus his first week of school. The guy never even apologized. While healing, he wanted to get involved in protests with groups on campus, marching in opposition to the KKK when they held a rally near campus and watched as one of his friends was brutally beaten by police for standing in the street and yelling. Off campus police have a bad reputation for police brutality, as he found when he was handcuffed and beaten for honking his horn at a police car blocking the street (as they tried unsuccessfully for half an hour to arrest students for having a party). This week he planned to participate in a demonstration on campus against defense contractors who were meeting there. Similar things have happened to his friends, all kids who get good grades and are good kids who are doing the right thing.

Like other Dem parents we've raised our kids well and taught them to speak out, but the environment they're trying to make a stand in is much more dangerous. Our fear is great as we anxiously await phone calls from them to see if they've been hurt, or thrown in jail for simply exercising their rights to free speech and assembly. We spend thousands in legal fees to see them exonerated time and again.

I expect to be flamed by those of you who think my son and others like him should just shut up, sit down and not protest a war they may be drafted to fight in or the corruption of a government that is ruining their future. Keep in mind those kids futures are at risk and they have every right to voice their opinion and advocate for change. Remember that behind them are parents who did the right thing by teaching them to know the issues, get politically involved and speak out and who have to help pick up the pieces.

These kids have a right to protest and we, of all people should be backing them, not criticizing them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. i think because the focus has shifted from free speech and police brutality to a referendum on kerry

this is why i think this whole issue has gotten perverse.

kerry was answering the kid. he didnt know about the tasering.

why did the cops act the way they did? thats the real question.

[lateo]

4. Kerry was not answering the young man.

Unless you have a different video than the 6 I have seen. Do you have a link where Kerry is addressing Myer's questions? The only thing I hear Kerry say is, "I'd like to answer him but he isn't available to swear me in as President." Which is a rather droll comment considering this kid was on the ground about to be tasered when he said that.

[reality based]

5. If that is the case, some Kerry supporters on this forum have done the Senator no favors by their

defense of the police overreaction, their personal attacks on the student, and their blatant misrepresentation of what transpired. I still believe my lying eyes and ears. I dug deep in my pockets to support Kerry's Presidential campaign and respect his lifetime of service, but reading some of these posts makes me sick.

[lateo]

12. Indeed

This is what I have come to expect from Kerry supporters though. Being passionate about your candidate is one thing...being blind is another.

[T Wolf]

2. Thank you for raising a son who remembers what we fought for years

ago. The problem is that we were not successful in keeping what progress we did make.

Now, it falls to the next generation who must fight a stronger enemy than we faced. The right is more entrenched and their power is more pervasive than anything we could imagine in our worst nightmares.

And with the continued sell-out of most of their generation, they are fighting alone. So, yes, it is up to us to help them out however we can. But too many of us have become comfortably numb, or just too god damned comfortable.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

3. I agree with you completely..

But honking a horn at a cop car is just stupid and asking for trouble..

The cops were in the wrong, but any reasonable person knows that's how they would react.

[OzarkDem]

7. 20 yr olds can be impulsive

He didn't lay on the horn, he tapped it. These two cops have been terrorizing all the kids in town. Its taking something like this to finally get the police department to get rid of them.

He definitely didn't deserve handcuffs, a beating, three felony counts, a night in jail, a trip to ER and thousands of dollars in medical and legal bills. A billy club on the titanium rod that holds his leg together could have meant he wouldn't walk again. Don't even get me started.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

9. Again..

I agree with you completely..

But you really should have taught your son to be much more wary of police.

My daughter got a huge lesson about that on her seventeenth birthday, got falsely arrested and then found out years later that they had put a completely bogus drug charge on her record as well.

Luckily she had married someone in law enforcement who managed to get it all expunged..

[OzarkDem]

18. Being wary doesn't always help

It should be the police who are taught a lesson, not the kids.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

21. Agree completely again...

However the police are not going to be taught a lesson, we all know that..

There is no such thing as "Officer Friendly" anymore..

[onenote]

6. Have you advised your children to struggle with the police if they try to remove them from a protest

[OzarkDem]

8. I advise them

to stay completely away from the police and if the police attack them to lay down and yell for help, just as the boy in the video did.

The days are gone when you can reason or comply with police. Some are still good and professionally trained to not hurt people or escalate the situation, but they're in the minority. Some today are ill trained, have bad attitudes and often make the situation worse.

I've told my son to be very afraid of them and not trust that they'll listen or respond properly.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. You much be watching a completely different video.

Because the one I saw the kid did anything but lay down and call for help.

[lateo]

14. You are exaggerating.

Did he resist? Yes, briefly. Did he go WWF on them? No. "Anything but" is an exaggeration that doesn't apply to what really happened.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. He went running around swinging his arms around...

pulling away from the cops, trying to stand up after they had taken him down.

So yeah, that's anything but laying down.

Saying he just laid down and called for help isn't just exaggerating, it's plain old fashioned lying.

I hope you don't teach your kids to do that.

[lateo]

19. No it isn't.

"Anything but" could literally be anything...like smashing a chair over the cops head. He didn't do "anything but". Yes, he resisted but it is an exaggeration to say he did "anything but".

[truedelphi]

29. The one I watched showed him doing exactly that

The police have him out in a hallway, and he is on the floor, and they are messing with him, and he is yelling for help.

[onenote]

38. did you watch the part where, before he's taken to the floor, he tries to break away?

I have no problem with people responding to cops with either passive resistance or cooperation (and then get a lawyer). His response was neither.

[truedelphi]

41. Look there has been more than one occasssion in my life

Where I have not followed the rules, and where I have taken up at least one minute and thirty seconds of people's time, and I was out of order, and I think if the police came up and forcibly attempted to eject me, I would try to get away as well (if only because of the shock of it)

[onenote]

13. if you think that Meyers laid down you are watching a different video than everyone else

Here - watch this and let us know if this is how you would advise your children to respond:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s

[truedelphi]

32. He moved away from the police, he tryed to squirm out from their clutches

He did not hit the police, in fact his one arm is caught up entirely in the action of holding onto a book he had brought to show Kerry (The Palast book)

He tries to move away from them.

Probably not as good as dropping to the floor but then he has not had the benefit of learning from TeachIns and BeIns about how to respond to police force.

Later on, out in the hallway. he is on the floor and the police are still overly reactive, to put it mildly.

[onenote]

37. he ends up on the floor because he tries to break away -- he was not cooperative or passive

His behavior did not remotely fall into the category of either passive resistance (dropping to the floor, given no active resistance and allowing himself to be carried out) or cooperation (allowing himself to be escorted out). He tries to pull away several times, the last time occurring when he and the cops get to the back of the room. At that point, he is taken to the ground. Clear from this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7NWukZhsiBw

[truedelphi]

40. I already said what you are saying- he does not resist in a passive fashion

But so what!!

Do you know that in Chicago, a town made famous by the one demonstration summer (1968)
when police really let loose on people, that other than that one fateful summer, police were trained to NOT respond to provacation when dealing with demonstraters.

Demonstraters do get overly excited. They do clamor for attention. They do pull away from police.

So what!

I am not willing to surrender my liberties or yours over the notion that any time someone steps out of line, the Police State gets to step in and taser you.

[onenote]

44. getting back to the topic at hand: would you advise your children to respond like this guy

We can speculate all day long as to why Meyers reacted as he did, but at least we agree on what he did, which is that he did not simply lay down or cooperate. So back to the question that started this subthread: would you advise your children to act as he did or do something different when the police started to escort him out?

[truedelphi]

45. I would MUCH RATHER HAVE my son (who is known for his temper and might well do worse

Than Myers) respond as Myers did than have a child who is a smug Valley Girl kinda creep like some of the young people in the audience.

I want students in this country to be passionate.

Ya wanna know who recently got dissed as an out of hand provacateur?

Abbie Hoffman.

Apparently kids in a Chicago High School re-enacted the Chicago Seven trial, and the student who portrayed Hoffman talked at length to a reporter about what an arrogant uppity human being Abbie Hoffman was.

Yah know something, YES AND NO.

When Abbie was young, he was arrogant. He was smug, pretentious, self-important etc.

However he and the others in that trial risked their lives over that trial - they could have plea bargained their way out of a trial and gone into jail for a short while (or simply offered up time all ready served) but they risked a trial to show for the world the crimes of the Nixon regime.

And I have one dear friend,now deceased (She founded Marin County's Breast Cancer Watch) who knew Abbie all his adult life including when he was in hiding. And she attests to the magnificent person that Abbie became.

If I have to ask my child to be smug obnoxious rude BUT INQUIRING when he is young, or apathetic and concerned about how they appear in public (with a special emphasis on being blase about everything) I would want a child who is the former. Thank you very much.

[hfojvt]

47. first time I saw that much of the video and it's quite shocking

I am puzzled as to why so much of DU seems to be against the questioner. It is ridiculous and outrageous to get arrested for asking a question even an outrageous question. He took an extra minute or two and for this a half dozen cops need to show up? And Senator Kerry and the rest of the audience just sits there? What a bunch of sheep and cowards (except for the one girl I heard on the video)!!! Was Kerry supposed to have a hand-picked crowd that would not ask any challenging questions?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Did you teach your kid to takes swings at cops?

And that there wouldn't be any consequences for doing so?

[OzarkDem]

16. Of course not

and he never did. He cooperated. But he was beaten up by them anyway.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Cooperated?

Bullshit.

[OzarkDem]

23. I'm talking about my son

were you there when he was arrested?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Oh, I thought you were talking about the kid in the video.

[truedelphi]

33. He doesn't swing at the cops - in fact his one arm is

Caught up in trying to ghold onto the book he has brought along.

And then later on, out in the hallway, they continue to be rather nasty even though he is on the floor like a worm.

[malaise]

20. Another great post

Our kids have the right to protest. It's that simple.

[cali]

22. They don't have the right to infringe on others' rights

or to resist arrest. It's that simple. And I'm the proud mom of a 21 yr old son who's been politically active since he was 10 or 11.

[OzarkDem]

24. Perhaps your son is lucky

to be on a campus in a town where police are well trained. What kind of activism is he involved in? Does he attend anti war protests?

[cali]

55. Yes, he attends war protests

He's protested with Bread&Puppet. He's been to DC. He would never, ever act like Andrew Meyer. He would never throw shit or put a bandana on his face. Maybe he is lucky. He also has a lot of common sense. And an ability to tolerate paradox.

[truedelphi]

46. It's truly a great post AND

Our kids should have the right to protest.

[Generic Other]

25. I am a college professor and I would have jumped in the fray and started a riot

That kid did nothing wrong. He had a right to ask his question and receive an answer.

Campus rent-a-cops should be given copies of the constitution not tasers.

[OzarkDem]

27. Thank you

My son adores his professors and refuses to change schools because he doesn't want to leave them. They must be a lot like you.

[truedelphi]

34. Yes thank you. The cops need to know the Constitution

[TX-RAT]

36. I would have jumped in the fray and started a riot

And risk kids getting injured or worse? You've helped nobody by doing that.

[Generic Other]

51. ok I concede, riot is too strong a word (I had just seen the video)

I would have yelled until I too was handcuffed on the floor...that's what i am saying woulde have happened at my school.

I have heard students ask invited guests thousands of questions, often inarticulate, off the wall questions one is embarassed to hear being asked; they are not tackled to the ground by security. INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING ARE PLACES THAT VALUE THE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS. At least where I come from this is the case.

[aikoaiko]

43. Its not too late, you could still go to that campus now and start your riot....

I mean, if you believe so passionately that this adult's 1st amendment rights were violated that violence is called for, then what's stopping you now.

[hfojvt]

48. riots suck. I would not want to be part of one.

But I like to think that I would speak up like the girl in the video who asks the police - 'what the hell are you doing?'

[Generic Other]

52. I speak out when I my conscience dictates

sometimes very loudly. And as I concede, I was slightly exaggerating when I said I'd start a riot. What I meant was I would raise my voice loudly and chastise anyone in that room who chose to stand like sheep without condemning this behavior toward this student.

I don't think they need me to come to Florida to deliver that message, do they?

[aikoaiko]

54. Sorry, I took your words at their meaning.

I don't think you should go down either. I was being sarcastic because I thought it was ridiculous to say you would start a riot because a disruptive student was escorted out of a meeting.

[fenriswolf]

28. im all for dissent

hay i love college kids who wanna protest, this kid wanted to make a scene. Also protest takes place on the streets or in numbers, this was one lone kid who wanted to make a scene not because of his political beliefs but more i feel for his own sense of worth, for his fifteen minutes if you will. I do take slight offense at your effort to polorize this topic (ie I expect to be flamed by those of you who think my son and others like him should just shut up, sit down and not protest a war they may be drafted to fight in or the corruption of a government that is ruining their future) he wasnt talking about the war in fact from his string of questions he was jumping from topic to topic faster then limbaugh can down a bottle of percodine. IMHO this kid was not protesting this kid wanted attention for personal gains not for a political movement. His verbage was belittling and his actions dubious. From what I saw on the tape he resisted arrest and like I stated before, he did not deserve to be tased but he should have known better then to act like that in the current police state and he should have known that when convfronted by six cops who just want to get him out of their that he should have just went peacfully because he was gone as soon as the cops tapped on his shoulder.

[KittyWampus]

30. I'd hope to heaven your kid is #1 smart enough to not resist arrest. to comply actively or passively

#2. I'd hope your kid wasn't stupid enough to purposely agitate the police. For no other reason than self promotion.

Edit- a good part of protesting/civil disobedience is getting arrested.

Don't you know that?

If your kid is politically active in that way, you should have prepared him for the likelyhood of arrest and let him know best course of action.

[OzarkDem]

31. Yeah, he's smart enough

but that didn't help him.

We need to accept the fact that kids are getting their asses kicked by police even when protesting peacefully.

[donsu]

35. yes

nt

[EFerrari]

39. Today I heard on Amy's show that 300 kids protested on that campus

after that incident. :hi:

[aikoaiko]

42. Hopefully you told your son not to resist the police when they are acting lawfully.

[OzarkDem]

53. The group he's with trains them how to act

He works with groups of Catholics (nuns against war), Quakers, IWW (the same group the girl belonged to whose leg was broken) and others. They don't resist arrest. I try to encourage him to stay in the back of the crowd and away from police.

Keep in mind, when a policeman slams you to the ground or up against a car and puts you in handcuffs, it hurts. If you respond to the pain my twisting or moving, they accuse you of resisting arrest and increase the violence. Being arrested in these situations is frightening and very painful. Poorly trained or bad policemen often overreact and escalate the situation.

[Whisp]

49. yay! my first recommend!

absolutely agree with you, OzarkDem.
this is not the time to sit back politely and quietly. Thanks so much to those 'loud mouths' like Sheehan, Code Pink, your kids, that kid everyone is talking about now. Time to start screaming blue murder. cuz it is.

[Ignis]

50. K&R.

Thanks for teachin' the youths right. :)