Tomorrow Sept 17th could be "Black Monday" for the stock market

[whistle]

...although I think Ben Bernanke will release an avalanche of new money from the Fed and continue to attempt to delay the inevitable until the end of the week at which time the market will be in free fall, money supply will have been exploded into hyperinflation and the economy will be in meltdown. Bush will be plucking a harp in the oval office and Dick Cheney will be in his bunker shouting orders to nuke Iran on deaf ears :hide: :yoiks:

[enid602]

1. what

And what will you be doing?

[Flabbergasted]

9. I've read panic statements like these for almost two years now none of which have come to pass.

You may be right or you may be wrong.

[Pirate Smile]

2. Is the meeting and rate cut on Tuesday?

[MatrixEscape]

3. That is then a real oppotunity for We The People ...

To buy out of the mess that the Dominators have made and maybe, if we have the vision and fortitude of days gone by, to forge something creatively new and progressive from the spoils of a corrupt, aging, and totally manipulative paradigm. We do have the Internet and we do have MINDS.

Money is not real. It is an idea that has been created and forged in the crucible of time. It is nothing more than an arbitrary and temporary symbol for work and goods that can be exchanged for something of equivalent value ... nothing more.

If you live your life by it, then you have been taught to grow to value and love it beyond its real purpose and worth.

Ring out the old and ring in the new. That is a Populist sentiment. In that respect, you could change it if you could only see a greater value in doing so and accept the idea that, like money, ideas can have a strong impact on your life and the way things are done. Money is an idea, and so is the solution to those who control and dominate its symbology. You start there and work your way forward. That is only as hard as it seems to be in relation to the dominating controllers who fashion and impose their symbolic currency on you and charge fees for its use, in the first place.

It is time for the present-day colonies to consider what currency really is and what is about. From there, they can take hold of the ideation that foments the reality that creates the current situation. That is where power is, and has always been.

Your own, personal love of the evils of money is what buys you into the mess that the controllers of it create. That is plain and simple. And if you don't think that is an important issue that you can effect and change, then history has much to teach you today.

[ruiner4u]

4. nice sentiment...but..

what are you suggesting as a substitute?

[MatrixEscape]

11. The same kind of innovation that has substituted ....

for every predicament and problem that has ever faced us as a species from the dawn of History until now.

I would venture an analogy. When we had the horse and buggy and everybody was rather happy with that technology, were there not problems with the ideas of trains and automobiles? And yet, in time of robber-baron, capitalistic solutions to problems, those strange, new things came to be everyday expectations for our current existence. Most of those innovators acted like dominant, alpha males who would see nothing but what they wanted and envisioned as the result of their efforts. And they, in retrospect, seemingly single-handedly, managed to amass the circumstances, the money, and the people around them to make real their visions and propel them into the future that we are living today. How would you live without Ford, Edison, Bell, and their like, today? They didn't need masses to get their ideas into reality, nor did they need anything more but a nod and a wink from politicians, (well, maybe some money, promise, and creative manipulation) to put their mindset into actuality.

Today, we have a Global mind and the Internet. Perhaps we could start to push ourselves in a direction where we act and think as an entity that has a power to change things because, well, we are the focal point and power behind the change and its very results. In other words, it is a new way of thinking, (as if the light bulb was just invented and we rapidly go from oil lamps to flicking a switch) en masse that is the virtual key to the Kingdom that we most certainly crave.

This movement is going to be Populist in the sense that ordinary people see it, grasp it, and get it. When you, I, and the rest fo them do, then it can be the kind of thing that is unstoppable. It is then no longer dependent on the Dominators who know that this possibility exists and do everything they can to prevent and stop it.

If you could think of this movement as a simple, natural progression and then, imagine it as an equivalent to the light bulb, refrigeration, telephones, automobiles, computers, the Internet, etc. only shifting from egotistical, empowered individuals with vision, to The People seeing that they have the very same capacity to accomplish great things for the very purpose of their ultimate survival and enrichment ... well, then, you have something rather potent and powerful there. You have a shifting of the pendulum of our progress in a very new and unexpected direction.

[Raksha]

19. I've been thinking along those lines for a long time, MatrixEscape.

I think it's our only option. I've just been waiting for enough other people to see it too.

If you could think of this movement as a simple, natural progression and then, imagine it as an equivalent to the light bulb, refrigeration, telephones, automobiles, computers, the Internet, etc. only shifting from egotistical, empowered individuals with vision, to The People seeing that they have the very same capacity to accomplish great things for the very purpose of their ultimate survival and enrichment ... well, then, you have something rather potent and powerful there. You have a shifting of the pendulum of our progress in a very new and unexpected direction.

[MatrixEscape]

21. That is a start, no matter how small.

Yes, I agree. It may be our only option and it can start small. Small grows large, just like seedlings under the right circumstances.

Let's consider our convergence as a sprout and see what happens.

We can both probably agree that the current system is an oil lamp in relation to the light bulb powered by the electricity of our bright and most powerful ideas, at least.

Can we get this to stick and grow? Well, if the time is right and we are determined, then it will certainly emerge in spurts, seemingly of its own accord as we tend an nurture it like good gardeners.

There is no trying, just doing, in contrast to those who tell you otherwise for profit. We live this and make it real by knowing, seeing, and being what it is we are trying to accomplish in the end. Oh, like any anomaly or mutation, we run the risk of failing and dying out, but imagine the amazing consequences if we manage to accomplish what life has set out for us if we stand by our vision with nothing but determination and tenacity? The benefits for all can be seen to be beyond the efforts we seem to make in the process.

[Greyhound]

5. An opportunity that they/we will pass. Over a century of brainwashing has taken its toll.

there are no more than 1% of our population that has any idea how our economy works (more accurately how it is designed to work against us), how our political process really works (ditto), or most importantly, how much power We the People have.

This is what gives the (real) ruling class nightmares, the idea that some day the American sheeple wake up one day and say, "fuck this, this is our country, not yours, we decide what is right, not you", and proceed to withdraw from the rigged game that they have imposed on us.

There is nothing that we need that we cannot make ourselves, there is nothing that can compel us to do their bidding, except our own ignorance and perceived dependence. We have all the power, they have none, if only we realized it.

[Flabbergasted]

10. Hey Mr Socialist.

[MatrixEscape]

15. ists, isms.

Why frame the present and the future simply on manipulated images that emerge from the past? Time is a state of mind and the puppeteers already know, full well, how we might think about and frame any situation.

We are living, dynamic human beings with very natural needs and multi-million-year-old-bio-computers in our heads. Nothing we have yet done or created compares to what we all, individually possess, naturally or by design.

I don't want to let anything that is necessary to our current state be bound by vulnerable nomenclature that is quickly and easily manipulated by the Dominators who constantly enumerate, tabulate, and use every scientific process to react to and counteract our inevitable, and much needed, retaliation towards total subservience in the name of so-called morality or "being a good person". That is just an arbitrary way to create a panopticon, prison-planet, with one surveillance for all. If you consider yourself a free person, then there are nothing but insults place before you that boldly challenge your assertion. Do free people sit back and placidly take such things as normal whilst complying with the invasive activity?

There is no freedom in totalitarian, imposed, expected response and behavior. There is no freedom in being entertained and bought for a price. What do we profit by gaining a glimpse of the whole World while losing any capacity we may of had in discerning if the soul we are told we have exists and if it is something we can gain, no matter how contradictory that proposition may sound when subjected to very critical and unflinching thought? The soul/ego I am supposed to possess is something that was told to me and enforced as a part of my indoctrination into the culture that I came to be in. It served to make it clear to me that, no matter how unique and original, or strange and outstanding my particular genetic dice may have been tossed, my compliance with its dictates were directly correlated, for the most part, with the very survival of my physical organism. Now, how much choice is there really there, for a new and very vulnerable, emergin being?

Where does it all go from there? Well, that would be telling!

[Flabbergasted]

20. Greyhound is a friend of mine.

[Greyhound]

22. Thanks, Flabbergasted meant that as the compliment I take it for.

I chose the red pill and know how deep the rabbit hole goes, it's just hard to accept the fact that there are so few that want to know the truth.

"Where does it all go from there?" I take the position that speculation is useless as we will all, inevitably, find out first hand.

[whistle]

25. Yep, you are correct

[countmyvote4real]

8. What? How? Why does that connect to the OP?

It's late here, so my reasoning could be down, but I don't connect the two.

[MatrixEscape]

18. Maybe you should consider ....

Waking up? Try a good pinch!

[Buttercup McToots]

27. Red Pill

I took the red pill...

[Torgo Johnson]

6. If you don't mind me asking...

what is happening that makes you think that the stock market will crash today?

[OzarkDem]

7. My money is out of the stock market

has been for over a year now.

[neverforget]

12. If Bernanke drops interest rates, it helps Wall Street in the short term while it kills

the Dollar and inflation takes off. If he leaves interest rates alone, he sacrifices Wall Street but saves the Dollar for another day. Tuesday is a day of reckoning for the Dollar. My bet is Bernanke will sacrifice the Dollar and drop interest rates by a quarter point. The stock market will soar, the Dollar will crash, gold will take off and we say hello to 1970's style inflation.

[regnaD kciN]

13. I fail to see how a quarter-point interest rate drop...

...will bring about "1970s style inflation." After all, rates were quite a bit lower than that for several years in the early 2000s (the current rate was only reached after several quarters of steady quarter-percent hikes). Did you see "1970s style inflation" during that time? Neither did I.

A little more sober analysis, please, and a little less :tinfoilhat: hysteria.

[Greyhound]

23. When the free-fall devaluation reaches it's inevitable limit we will look

at "1970s style inflation" as the golden age of opportunity.

[whistle]

26. AP Stock news as of 8:50 am EDT this morning...

<snip>
Stocks Poised to Open Lower
Stock Futures Point Lower With Wall Street Anxious Ahead of Tuesday Fed Meeting

The Associated Press By MADLEN READ AP Business Writer
NEW YORK (AP)

U.S. stocks pointed toward a lower opening Monday, as the market traded nervously ahead of Tuesday's decision by the Federal Reserve on interest rates.

Most market participants are betting on a quarter-point cut in the benchmark federal funds rate Tuesday. And with all of the recent weak economic data such as a decrease of 4,000 jobs in August and weaker-than-expected retail sales some are anticipating a half-point rate cut.

But another possibility which would likely cause a huge selloff in the stock market is that the Fed might not go through with a rate cut at all, if policy makers believe the economy is still growing moderately and that inflation remains a threat.

<cut to end>
Japanese markets were closed Monday for a holiday, and China's volatile Shanghai Composite Index rose more than 2 percent to another record, but most Asian stocks fell. Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index declined 1.20 percent.

In corporate news, Deutsche Telekom AG said Monday it will buy the shares it does not already own of SunCom Wireless Holdings Inc. Deutsche Telekom's T-Mobile USA unit will buy the outstanding shares for $1.6 billion and assume debt of $800 million.

Another deal came from defense contractor ITT Corp., which said it is acquiring aerospace company EDO Corp. for about $1.19 billion in cash.

No major companies release earnings on Monday, but later in the week, the major investment banks Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs release their third-quarter results. Investors are eager to see how the banks fared during August's tighter credit and stock decline.

<link>

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

14. Shouldn't the Nikkei have opened by now?

The current info is still from last Friday.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EN225

[ovidsen]

16. A mind of it's own

The national economy, and the world economy for that matter, is a beast with a mind of it's own. There's always someoneone out there with the perfect plan for lining their pockets by intentionally bankrupting other people and organizations. The unknown unknowns will get you every time. Sure, subprime mortgages seemed like a good idea at the time (no money down? adjustible interest rates?) but greedy and heartless brokers talked families into homes they couldn't afford in the first place, and as the economy chills, the fallout increases.

Whoever came up with the no money down, adjustible rate mortage idea was a greedy idiot, and federal regulators should have seen the monster that was being created. When my wife and I bought our condo several years ago, we did it the old fashioned way. 20% down (yes, it was a bitch to save that much) and a 30 year fixed rate. No matter what, I'll always know how much I owe every month, and even in today's flat market, we have enough equity to sell it for less than we bought it and still have money in our pockets. Not that we intend to do that.

There are so many variables at work here that even gurus like Alan Greenspan admit that managing the economy is like trying to control smoke. And deregulation has led to lending practices that are downright predatory. Here in Georgia, outfits like TitleMax will lend you money at 30% interest with your car title as collateral. If you miss a payment, they take your car. Even if you only owe $1000 and your car's worth $10,000, you lose your car. No refund of the difference between the car's worth and the money you owe. That's a license to steal from the working class. Georgia lawmakers considered a bill to curb this practice earlier this year, but the predators basically bought them out, and the Titlemaxes in Georgia are thriving.

The interest rates on unsecured loans, like credit cards, are also out of control. How banks can charge 28% interest on the balance due when the inflation rate (consumer price index) is running at under 3% is indefensible. I used to be a champion of a loosely regulated free market and subscribed to an Adam Smith kind of philosophy which belives that ultimately, markets can control themselves. Not any more. The New York Times said recently that some hedge fund managers make $20,000 a WEEK. Nobody needs that much money. Big banks, possibly trying to top the greed of storefront usury houses like Titlemax are cleaning up with high interest loans to people who work hard, fork over their taxes, and pay their bills on time. This is infefensible.

I don't think the upheaval the OP is predicting will happen this week. But there will be a corection soon. The playing field will be levelled. Re-regulation is badly needed and I hope Democrats rise to the challenge. Heads will roll and working Americans will again pay a fair price for services offered by banks and brokerage houses. It's a matter of when, not if.

[alittlelark]

17. We pulled our $$$ out of US investments when Cheney did.

THANK YOU to the DUers that originally posted that Cheney had divested his American stocks a year and a half ago.... Our $$$ has done very well (not as well as his, given that we have no insider info).

[BadgerLaw2010]

24. Yawn. DU posters have predicted 12 of the last 0 market crashes this year.

And no, a 10% correction over a few weeks is not a "crash," so the total *is* zero.