Breaking news from Baghdad - PROOF!

[liberal N proud]

Yes here we go again, the rhetoric on Iran... ABC/NBC selling the regimes story that they have proof that Iran is feeding the insurgency in Iraq.

The next step?

[Clark2008]

1. To that, my response to the administration would be:

"So?"

I mean, what difference does it make if Iran, Turkey, or Timbuktu is sending "insurgents" to Iraq. Get out and we wouldn't have to worry about it. We go away. They go away.

Simple.

[Botany]

11. Did I ever tell you that you are my Fav?

But Iran is Shi and most of the attacks on our troops are coming from
the Sunni and they are funded and equipped by our good friends the
Saudis.

The idea that Iran is making bombs for the Sunnis in Iran doesn't
pass the smell test to me.

BTW A must read (Another smart General)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/09/AR2007020901917.html?nav=rss_opinions

Victory Is Not an Option by William E. Odom
The Mission Can't Be Accomplished -- It's Time for a New Strategy

William E. Odom, a retired Army lieutenant general, was head of Army intelligence and director
of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan. He served on the National Security
Council staff under Jimmy Carter. A West Point graduate with a PhD from Columbia, Odom
teaches at Yale and is a fellow of the Hudson Institute.

BTW Are you eating right and taking care of my Cyber God Daughter?

[Clark2008]

18. Hi Bot.

Of course it doesn't pass the smell test - but, unfortunately, in the age of corporate media, too few Americans know the difference between Sunni and Shi'ite to understand your very valid point. Hell, our own pResident didn't know there was different and he's privy to the most compelling intelligence out there!

Odom rocks!

And, yes, I'm eating right, but Miss Hannah is causing me to swell beyond belief. I can't even get my rings and shoes on today. My BP is fine, so it's not pre-clampsia. It's just my little 5'1" frame trying to carry around all the sudden extra weight in the middle. Needless to say, I'm sucking down water today like a fish.

:hi:

[Botany]

24. Hi buddy

That article by Odom should be must reading for everybody.
Not only is our defeat in Iraq pre-ordained (even though we can
and will win every battle) but bush's blundering in Iraq has helped
the Iranians too.

2) We must continue the war to prevent Iran's influence from growing in Iraq. This is another absurd notion.
One of the president's initial war aims, the creation of a democracy in Iraq, ensured increased Iranian influence,
both in Iraq and the region. Electoral democracy, predictably, would put Shiite groups in power -- groups
supported by Iran since Saddam Hussein repressed them in 1991.

I was stuck someplace last friday and read the I.S.G. report ...... bush/Cheney could not have fucked
up anymore if they tried .... Guess how many foreign al Qaeda there are in Iraq? 1,300. :grr:

**********************************************

My Mom taught nutrition and did her PhD on pre natal nutrition; don't worry about too much weight
gain (with in reason), exercise under the guide lines set by your ob-gyn, and get your protein.

I am very protective of my cyber God Daughter .... Wes might want to be the real Godfather but ....
we of the KOEB (and testosterone lurkers) have our rights too. :rofl:

[bigtree]

2. from ABC News:

"Even Gates stopped short of directly linking the Iranian government to weapons found in Iraq. The weapons could be sold on the black market to militant groups in Iraq.

When asked about U.S. claims, Iran's ambassador to Iraq Hassan Kazami Qumi laughed and asked a question of his own.

"Did you see this equipment?" he asked."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2866573&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[jimshoes]

3. I bet if they looked

hard enough, they could find "proof" that a half dozen countries are somehow aiding the Iraqi civl war.

[B Calm]

4. Imagine if Iran invaded Canada. You think we would stick our nose in?

[MrPrax]

10. Why did you choose Canada?

What are you trying to say? Historically the ONLY country that has 'invaded' Canada is the US and at the moment the current Canadian government is a big supporter of their US ally in this big fun adventure?

Was there perhaps ANOTHER country you really wanted mention but then MAYBE you thought...well there are a bunch of lefties here and 'lefties' like Canada, so I'll invoke Canada because the country I want to really use in this 'analogy' would make it look too obvious...?

It's just a curious thing you wrote in response to the OP ...

[B Calm]

33. Is Iran NORTH of Iraq?

[MrPrax]

34. No?

Does it look north?

[B Calm]

38. bingo

[JCMach1]

5. Why aren't they reporting the Saudi involvement?

Oh, and the GCC is starting a nuclear program... where's the outrage from the administration on that? Seems to me the GCC is giving the exact same argument for going ahead as the Iranians... :wtf:



ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates, Feb. 7 A group of six Persian Gulf countries will start building nuclear power plants by 2009 to cover energy demand as oil and natural gas supplies decrease.

A top official of the Gulf Cooperation Council said Tuesday the countries will look to nuclear energy as a sustainable and clean energy source, Gulf News reports. Oil and gas reserves will be exhausted sooner or later; 70 or 100 years is a long time for us, but not for our nations, said Abdullah Hamad Al Attiyah, deputy prime minister and minister of energy and industry of Qatar, during a meeting in Abu Dhabi. GCC members also include the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Oman and Kuwait... http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/28290.html

[liberal N proud]

6. Not to mention that we don't know what happened to 12 billion dollars

For all we know it may have gone to the insurgency

[JCMach1]

7. More disgusting than that... pure graft

Contracts and kickbacks given... nothing accomplished


One of the biggest heists in history...

Makes you wonder how much directly went back into the 2004 elections. Not a penny I'm sure!

[WinkyDink]

14. THE biggest heist, bar none.

[radfringe]

8. more "FEITH"-based intelligence?

ok it may not be written by Feith, but the question remains are we going to fall for another pack of lies?

how reliable is the "proof"? what are the sources and how reliable are they?

Before we go jumping into another bush war - questions regarding the crap we were fed on Iraq need to be answered

and can we afford another war? Afghanistan is falling apart, Iraq has already fallen apart

and then there's this interesting snippet:

Commentary: Theaters of the absurd
By ARNAUD DE BORCHGRAVE | UPI Editor at Large
WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2007
http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20070208-100038-4021r

....snippet....

At a farewell reception at Blair House for the retiring chief of protocol, Don Ensenat, who was President Bush's Yale roommate, the president shook hands with Washington Life Magazine's Soroush Shehabi. A grandson of one of the late Shah's ministers, Soroush said, "Mr. President, I simply want to say one U.S. bomb on Iran and the regime will remain in power for another 20 or 30 years and 70 million Iranians will become radicalized."

"I know," President Bush answered.

"But does Vice President Cheney know?" asked Soroush.

The president chuckled and walked away.

[Leopolds Ghost]

16. "I know. Heh, heh." The president chuckled and walked away, clicking his worn-down bootheels n/t

[Roland99]

19. HA! I like that. "Feith-based intelligence"

[JCMach1]

21. I will give an exact example of what I am talking about

First of all, we get a number of upper-class Iraqis who come to my university in the UAE.

One of my student's father after the war put in a proposal/bid to REPAIR a bridge with his Iraqi construction company for 3 Million $. The contract went to an American contractor for a NEW BRIDGE which will cost $50 million. This is just one TINY example!

[originalpckelly]

22. Deputy Feith is the best name for him...

as a reference to the inept Deputy Fife on the Andy Griffith Show.

[liberal renegade]

31. Barney Fife was harmless

and had a wonderful heart.

[MethuenProgressive]

9. "We haven't seen … so far … any hard evidence,"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2866573&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Gates has cited other evidence of Iranian involvement, including documents captured when U.S. forces conducted a raid last month in northern Iraq and arrested six Iranians. Iraq's foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari said his government has yet to see evidence from that raid that implicates Iran.

"We haven't seen … so far … any hard evidence," Zebari said.

Even Gates stopped short of directly linking the Iranian government to weapons found in Iraq.

-----
hoo-boy, here they go again...

[radfringe]

28. and two or three months after we invade Iran

we find out the "proof" was based on accounts of a confidential source named "spitball"

[Avalux]

12. It would be absurd to think Iran was not meddling in some way. However -

A few of questions must be asked, which I doubt they will.

1. If Iran is feeding the insurgency, who in Iran? Is it the state government or extremist groups?

2. Even if our government can prove their claims without a doubt, do they justify bombing the shit out of Iran?

3. And when considering the violence in Iraq as a whole, what percentage can be connected to Iran?

I heard the other day it's insignificant, about 3%. These questions won't matter though; the rhetoric will reach deafening proportions and the American people will probably buy into it.

[Botany]

13. Just like putting al Qaeda in Iraq bush has helped Iran's power too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/09/AR2007020901917.html?nav=rss_opinions

2) We must continue the war to prevent Iran's influence from growing in Iraq. This is another absurd notion.
One of the president's initial war aims, the creation of a democracy in Iraq, ensured increased Iranian influence,
both in Iraq and the region. Electoral democracy, predictably, would put Shiite groups in power -- groups
supported by Iran since Saddam Hussein repressed them in 1991.

[Strelnikov_]

15. Juan Cole: Blame these US deaths on Iran . . . a black psy-ops operation

Informed Comment
Sunday, February 11, 2007
http://www.juancole.com

It is far more likely that corrupt arms merchants are selling and smuggling these things than that there is direct government- to- militia transfer. It is possible that small Badr Corps stockpiles were shared or sold. That wouldn't have been Iran's fault.

Some large proportion of US troops being killed in Iraq are being killed with bullets and weapons supplied by Washington to the Iraqi army, which are then sold by desperate or greedy Iraqi soldiers on the black market. This problem of US/Iraqi government arms getting into the hands of the Sunni Arab guerrillas is far more significant and pressing than whatever arms smugglers bring in from Iran.

. . .


The attempt to blame these US deaths on Iran is in my view a black psy-ops operation. The claim is framed as though this was a matter of direct Iranian government transfer to the deadliest guerrillas. In fact, the most fractious Shiites are the ones who hate Iran the most. If 25 percent of US troops are being killed and wounded by explosively formed projectiles, then someone should look into who is giving those EFPs to Sunni Arab guerrillas. It isn't Iran.

Finally, it is obvious that if Iran did not exist, US troops would still be being blown up in large numbers. Sunni guerrillas in al-Anbar and West Baghdad are responsible for most of the deaths. The Bush administration's talent for blaming everyone but itself for its own screw-ups is on clear display here.

[Avalux]

29. I just heard on MSNBC - 175 troop deaths -

since June 2004 have been linked to Iranian supplied weapons - and not just anyone in Iran, but top government officials. Amazing how they come up with this shit.

[Morgana LaFey]

30. Yup. That was my immediate assessment.

Since it came from the "military" and in fact, I think Wolfie mentioned something about "military intelligence." Black ops most certainly.

[rodeodance]

17. Note the Location of this 'off camera news conf" Bagdad, from US

miliatary.

Not from WH in DC

[SalmonChantedEvening]

20. Reminds me of an Elton John song

Keep your auditions for somebody
Who hasn't got so much to lose
You can tell by the lines I'm reciting
I've seen that movie too


Always hated reruns... :grr:

[Booster]

23. Oh, goodie. Pretty soon we'll be seeing those cartoons of those

little trucks ALL over Iran, and little X's showing where the bomb making stuff is stored, and the repugs will start their little salvitating and their eyes will start to bug out of their heads.:popcorn:

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. I thought Saudi Arabia was feeding the insurgency?

Who is in charge of Oceanic this week?

[UTUSN]

26. Yes, we are officially in the pimp phase of the run-up to the Iran Attack

I was about to start a thread on this, but apparently I'm not the only one who noticed. This A.M., in the snooze mode, I heard (C-SPAN? Book TV?) featuring something about Iran destroying Israel. I switched to (CNN?) and a breathless reporter was saying those bombs were manufactured blah blah.

This must been the SECOND stage of pimping because it has been going on on Faux and others for months before this. But it looked like the hype for Jurassic Park this A.M.

[saltpoint]

27. Plus, I heard they found Ahmadinejad's wallet near one of the bombsites.

_ _ _ _ _
This administration is lying through its teeth. The Senate Republicans know this. It will be interesting to see which of them -- especially the ones considering re-election in 2008 -- decide to cave and remain silent or rise and speak up.

My guess is that the voters are not going to be very enthusiastic at all for any candidate who backs Bush's long wished-for assault on Iran. Republicans in the Senate especially. Smith in Oregon, Coleman in Minnesota, etc. -- I think they lose their seats if they don't defy Bush on this.

[Imagevision]

32. Face it, we have a leader who is irresponsibly hell-bent on attacking Iran before he leaves office

Defense contractors (Carlyle) Big Oil won't be displeased with shrub attacking one more key "location" before retiring to Carlyle himself while hooking up with Tony Blair there also.

[BeHereNow]

35. That is the terrrible truth and I don't see anyone stopping them...

Sure, there are many people standing up and protesting
the Iran plan, but let's face it, when did that stop them before?

I think they are simply poised to unleash the final
stage of their hubris and then disappear with the
gains of their planetary pillaging, leaving the rest of us
to Post-Katrina it...

That is what I see, sorry.

BHN

[ewagner]

36. And just what

did the SOVIET UNION do with the PROOF that America was supplying the mujahadeen with money and weapons?


Or what did Iraq do when there was proof that we did a guns for hostages deal with Iran?

Or what did Iran do when Donald Rumsfeld helped sell intelligence to IRAQ against IRAN?


righteous indignation is phoney...

[bdamomma]

37. I am watching NBC, and they show that smirking SOB *

and he was joking like mimicking " oh he's going to bomb Iran", with such a freaking smirk on his face, God, I hate this man, just hate him. He must be stopped, this man is not fit to be in any office and especially not to be the President of United States.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. The Iranians are using Saddam's huge fleet of unmanned drones

which they looted from Baghdad during the hectic early days of the war. It will all be in Colin Powell's presentation to the U.N.