According to Jack Cafferty, the direction of Iraq is in Pelosi's hands.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

She and Reid have been saying that they don't have the 60 votes in the Senate. According to Cafferty, a funding bill does not have to be brought to the floor and it is Pelosi who has control of that in the House.

Is this true?

[originalpckelly]

1. All funding bills originate in the House where we have a solid majority.

I guess it is, though it may be a bit simplistic.

[Tempest]

3. It's pretty straight forward

The bill originates in the House.

Pelosi can insist any Iraq funding bill is not included as part of a general funding bill or Pentagon funding bill.

Pelosi can then keep the Iraq funding bill from being introduced, debated on or brought to a vote.

She will do none of the above because she's spineless.

[Justitia]

2. Gee, nice way to deflect criticism of the Freaking Commander In Chief.

Nevermind the asshole who actually started this war and bears full responsibility for it's consequences, sure, it all falls to the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

I fucking wish.

Too bad they didn't feel so strongly about it when Denny Hastert had the job.

Asshole.

[Tempest]

5. It does fall on the speaker of the House

Regardless of the past, the ability to force a pull-out of the troops lies with Pelosi.

No ifs, ands or buts.

[Justitia]

13. Nice. Excuse all the fuckups who started this, it's now all the fault of Pelosi.

I know she has a part to play in the CLEANUP of this bullshit, but I refuse to let the actual warmongers off the hook by playing up the "savior" abilities of a new Speaker (who happens to be a Dem).

That is loser thinking.

It's their chimp, let them clean up his shit.

Why aren't you for making all the war lovers vote over, and over, and over again to reinforce their desire for war?

Yes, the Dems have a huge responsibility to bring this to a close, but no fucking way should we allow the RWers dump their war and run.

Don't you remember how well that has worked for us in the years since Vietnam?

[Tempest]

16. No one is making excuses

We're pointing out the facts.

Feel free to keep living in the past if you wish, but don't expect it to change the reality of the situation.

[Justitia]

19. The PAST?!?! The current freaking PRESIDENT is keeping this shit going? Remember him???

The g'damn COMMANDER IN CHIEF?

The WAR PRESIDENT?

Why the hell would you knife your own representative before calling the man with the war plan on the carpet?

[Tempest]

22. Okay, now that you got that off your chest

Exactly what does it have to do with Pelosi not willing to stop a funding bill from being voted on and forwarded to the Senate?

I'm calling my representative on the carpet because THEY ARE THE ONES WHO CAN STOP THIS MADNESS AND HAVE TO DATE REFUSED TO!

We had a chance to call Bush to the carpet in 2004 and failed.

[Justitia]

25. We may have some opportunities w/funding, but I refuse to let the RW dump this on "us".

The fact that DUers easily follow Cafferty's lead in that direction is really unsettling.

Yes, we need to do our thing and we may be able to get there, but any time anyone in the media tries to play up that the continuation of this bullshit war falls on anyone other than Bush and his WAR PARTY, I will not stand for that.

Maybe our leadership doesn't go out on a limb often enough because they figure their own party might be sawing them off back at the trunk.

Yes, please pressure Pelosi, I'm right there with you, but do NOT validate the RW view that it is OUR responsibility to cleanup their catastrophe.

[Skidmore]

30. Anyone who in the position of power and can impact the ending of

this illegal war and does not, either by acts of omission or commission, is complicit in my opinion. I don't care what the excuse. Both sides of the aisle.

[Tempest]

32. Amen

Who cares who started the war?

The issue is WHO WILL END IT?

It sure as hell won't be the Repugs.

[Justitia]

33. Agreed. But can we please not take the RW bait that one lone Dem stands between war & peace?

[Tempest]

36. One lone Democrat stands between continuing the war or ending the occupation

And her name is Pelosi.

[Justitia]

38. Yeah, right. If only Denny Hastert had saved us from ourselves. What crap. -eom

[Tempest]

31. We're following Cafferty's lead BECAUSE HE'S RIGHT!

Cafferty is blaming the Democrats because they continue to fund the war, he's not blaming them for starting the war. I don't know where you got that idea.


but do NOT validate the RW view that it is OUR responsibility to cleanup their catastrophe

If your dog shits on the carpet, do you wait for him to clean it up?

If it's not our responsibility to clean it up, we'll be in Iraq for eternity. Is that what you want?


Get real.

[Justitia]

37. Jesus H. Christ, by all means, keep flogging the Dem leadership.

Me, I prefer to take it to the cause of this bullshit in the first place.

But go ahead and let CNN's Jack Cafferty recruit you into the infamous Democratic circular firing squad.

[Skidmore]

40. Listen, we are not without complicity on the Democratic side of the aisle.

These are facts. There are actions that Dems could have taken in both the House and the Senate to put an end to this that did not require Republics to do a damned thing. So now we just let the bodies pile up and those with terrible injuries increase in number to protect what? Some politician's name. Those goddamned politicians voted away their war powers. Gave * a carte blanche to begin with. I have no patience with any of this claptrap these days and cut not one of them slack.

[Justitia]

42. I don't disagree. I just don't line up with RWers in their talking points, using Dems as pinatas.

When you start validating RWers in their condemnation of Democrats you are cutting your own people off at the knees - what does that accomplish?

Don't play that sucker's game.

[Skidmore]

46. So we slap a smiley face on and point a finger to the right and

ignore the dealings of our own power brokers? No. Absolutely not. Truth is truth and all the spinning and dissembling does not disguise the truth. Either we behave with maturity as a party or we adopt the adolescent blame game that the Republics play...you know, the party of personal responsibity. It takes a mature and confident party to address its own faults. Don't fall into the RW trap of not engaging in introspection and expecting your leaders to be guided by principle over political expediency. It's called "integrity."

[Justitia]

49. That's rich, I've been consistently for those who scream loudest against this war.

I just don't undermine the people with the power to do it by adopting RW talking points against them.

But you keep agreeing with the MSM and RWers when it comes to Democrats.
I mean, who can judge the motives of Democrats better than Republicans???? :crazy:

edit: since you edited your post, it makes my response look incongruent, but I'm leaving it alone.

[Skidmore]

54. Who the hell is validating RWers?

I have the right to condemn any politician for their actions or words. When Dems are considered above reproach, we've lost sight of integrity. I don't get what you have your undies in a bunch about. I don't agree with the way these people have been dealing with issues concerning the war and I'm fervently upset because they have not impeached * and Cheney, both criminals and traitors to the nation. So I guess I'll be a sucker in your estimation. I know that I will support what I can personally live with and I consider it immoral to continue this war in any way and to perpetuate the acts of these criminals.

[Justitia]

59. The OP is about Jack Cafferty dumping Bush's war on a single Dem.

I'm staying on topic about Jack Cafferty and his baiting bullshit.

Separately, I've participated in many discussions about our way out of this and will continue to do so.

[Lucinda]

64. I dont see it that way at all...Cafferty isnt dumping anything on her

He's saying she has the POWER to stop this....and making that statement publically makes it easier for her actions (should she do so) to be understood

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. Thank you. eom

[TahitiNut]

50. (Hiya, Temp!) I thought it was the GOPachyderms who went "EEEK! A fact!!"

:hi: I guess it's a paranoia that goes with blindered partisanship.


How're things in Schwartzeneggerland? :pals:
(Should we remind folks it's all your fault I ever signed up for DU?)
:evilgrin:

[Tempest]

71. The land of fruits and nuts is doing well

Arnold just lowered his re-election chances by vetoing a bill that would have let the voters decide if they wanted the troops brought home.

Apparently the "people's governor" doesn't trust the people.

[Nite Owl]

51. The right wing doesn't have

to dump it on us, the dems voted to fund this mess, they voted to give him the money for 'the surge', they refuse to even talk of impeachment. The dems own this war and everything else now too. They could stop it, that's what they were elected to do and they won't. Not can't, won't.

[Skidmore]

27. The people responsible for "calling the man with the war plan on the carpet"

is the Congress, and Pelosi is Speaker of the House. It is her job to call him on the carpet and to marshal the support for it among representatives. She has failed to do this either by impeaching the bastard or taking away his war toys or funding. She and congress are not without responsibility.

[OzarkDem]

18. They're going to anyway

now or later, take your pick.

We shouldn't make excuses for Pelosi. She's the Speaker with real power to stop Bush from shoveling more money into a losing war. She's either up to the challenge or she isn't.

[me b zola]

58. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't have anyone in Iraq right now

It's their chimp, let them clean up his shit.

Ask the people who have somebody they love in Iraq if they want to wait for the neo-cons who have no intention of leaving Iraq (see:US embassy in Iraq, permanent military bases), or if they want it to end now/ASAP.


Cafferty might be a conservative (I don't know his political leanings) but he has been very clear that he understands who is to blame for this war. Cafferty has blistered this administration many times on some of the really big issues, one of them being the war.

[Justitia]

61. And you'd be FUCKING WRONG. -eom

[me b zola]

65. All I can say is-- wow.

I wish you peace and hope that your loved one comes home soon.

[Justitia]

67. Oh, I have more than just one loved one over there, but gee thanks for your concern. -eom

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. Deflect critisicm from the Sociopath in Chief? This has nothing to do with that. Everyone but the

backwash knows what a miserable piece of shit failure he is.

We have to get the hell out of Iraq, Now. End this endless frigging illegal and immoral war. End the bloodshed and the theft of our treasury. What are we supposed to want. Get deeper in with more lives lost, playing a game so Shrub can take the blame? He's Fucked Up Big Time and No One Is Going To Forget That. Maybe as icing on the cake, drive the truth home, the Democrats should start Impeachment Hearings? All they need to Impeach his sorry ass are the Downing Street Memos. Once those come out, Pelosi won't have to sweat her decision.

According to the replies I've received on this thread, Pelosi has the Constitutional right to do it, she should just Do It and stop the bullshit about not having the votes in the Senate.

Lives are on the line.

[Justitia]

48. Yeah, but do you really believe Cafferty's only slamming Pelosi because he's such a war critic?

C'mon, now.

If Cafferty is spotlighting Pelosi, it's because he sensed an opportunity to pounce, not because he is so interested in ending Bush's war.

Funny, I never saw Cafferty in such a lather over stopping this debacle before it began, and he sure as shit doesn't seem to be taking it up with any of the other warmongers. Why is that?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

53. Cafferty slams Bush all the time and I mean all the time. He called it the way

he saw it. He heard Pelosi and Reid say they didn't have to votes and it wasn't true that they needed the votes. Doesn't that disturb you one little bit?

[Justitia]

57. Nope, because I don't take legislative lessons from Jack Cafferty.

Jack Cafferty doesn't influence my opinions one fucking bit.

I can examine my party from the inside out, I don't need his talking head to tell me how upset I should be.

Why do you so easily buy the "outrage" Jack Cafferty is selling you?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. Maybe because I've been outraged from before this war began? Maybe because I don't want anyone

else playing fucking games when REAL LIVES are at stake? If she has the power, let her use it and not lie about it. Is it just because Cafferty pointed out a fact that you're pissed? I'm a hell of a lot more pissed about this war. That is the where the focus should be.

[Selatius]

63. Hate to break it to you, but when it comes to power, we're all pawns in the game.

I'm not justifying it, but when you get up that high with power, pretty soon the people really do start to look like ants, and there are a lot of powerful people up there who oppose ending the war. Their profit margins depend on the war not ending. I'm not blaming anyone in particular, merely talking about the nature of the way things move around up there.

Edited to add: The Constitution puts the power of the purse in Nancy Pelosi's hand. If people want to condemn Bush for the war, it's only fair one also condemn the enablers of Bush as well.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

68. Frankly,

I am fully aware of that, but sometimes I like to pretend that we have a real government that is owned by We The People. Unfortunately, I don't think that has existed for close to 100 years or longer.

[Tempest]

72. So you don't take lessons from someone who's right?

Unfuckingbelieveable.

[mike_c]

4. yes, it is true....

The dems control the legislative agenda, just as the republicans did prior to 2006. Remember how the repubs prevented investigations, oversight, legislation, etc? Not by voting, in many cases, but simply by preventing them from ever happening. Dems could do the same thing with any funding bills, and it doesn't require any voting by anyone.

[sandnsea]

6. He would probably attack them for abandoning troops too

Cafferty hates all politicians and will say anything if it means he gets to bash DC.

[NNN0LHI]

15. He would blame every single soldiers death on the Dems if they cut funding in a NY minute

And Cafferty didn't hate ALL politicians when he was on CNN in the mornings for years. He just hated Democratic politicians back then. I think he still does.

Don

[Justitia]

17. bingo. Pat Buchanan foams at the mouth every night about how "we" should cut off funding.

Amazing how so many are so willing to walk right into that bear trap.

I am not against pulling the funding, but there are ways to make it crystal clear who is responsible for this clusterfuck, and making Pelosi the "do or die" scapegoat is not one of them.

[TheUniverse]

7. We don't need 60 votes.

The republicans are the ones who need votes. They need them to keep the funding. They are in the minority. Why do the funding bills keep passing?

[mike_c]

8. the better question is...

...why do the funding bills keep coming to the floor of the house?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

70. Yes, it is. Thank you. eom

[BlooInBloo]

9. According to the Constitution it is.

[TahitiNut]

12. That quaint ol' thing? They don't pay attention to that rag anymore.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Yes, it's true.

Pelosi and the other dems have the power to stop the war simply by not funding it.

[MaryRN]

11. Forget about Pelosi - she's already shown her true colors.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Way ahead of you.

[Disturbed]

20. The next time Busholini demands more $Billions to fund his

Occupation Dems can pretend that they are deaf & never fund that freakin' Fiasco. When the funds dry up the US Troops can pack up & drive back to Kuwait & hitch rides on planes returning to Amerika.

[Maggie_May]

21. Try to send a email to Pelosi

of course she only takes email from California but anyway it went to my rep. We need to stop funding this war now!

[Tempest]

23. Been there, done that

All you get in return is a polite response saying she agrees and is trying to get the troops home.

Which is all a bunch of shit and outright lies.

[Maggie_May]

28. I know have got the same reply

well maybe we should start a date to call and flood the phone lines.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. You can email her at the Speaker site and I'm going to do that right now! Link below!

http://speaker.house.gov/contact/

[Maggie_May]

44. Thank you

Dear Ms. Pelosi,
For the sake of this country and the men and women in Iraq stop the funding of this war.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. I should have copied mine. It was longer than yours but with the same point.

And you're welcomed!

[The Stranger]

24. Awaken the Nancy from its slumbers and see if we can get impeachment back on the table.

Or at least keep her from bringing a war crime funding bill to the floor.

[warren pease]

26. "...in Pelosi's hands."

Well, since all she has to do is refuse to let any funding bill come to the floor for a vote, that virtually guarantees that she'll not only approve a vote on any such bill, but remove any silliness about a timeline for withdrawal and lobby heavily for tossing in an extra $5 billion as a gesture of good will to the administration.

If this is the best leadership democrats can find, I suggest it's well past time for a proportional representation, parliamentary system in which voters aren't forced to decide between a member of the overtly hostile wing or the slightly more genteel faction of the Business Party. That's like having to choose between arsenic or cyanide, and then thanking all the noble massuhs for the choice.

wp

[moondust]

29. Wild Card.

I don't think anybody can predict what Bush would do if the funding is cut off. He might try to effectively use the troops as hostages to extort more funding or divert funds from somewhere else, claiming "war time powers". He may actually be doing that already.

This desperado will do absolutely anything at this point to prevent historians from blaming him and his mindlessly obedient party for creating a much stronger Iran and ultimately facilitating Iran's annexation of Iraq--making them stronger yet.

[Tempest]

34. Force his hand

And then come up with a plan to counter it.

Appeasement hasn't worked and the Democrat controlled Congress' dismal approval rating is evidence of that.

[Justitia]

39. I count FOUR rightwing talking points right there. Why do you do that? -eom

[Tempest]

73. WTF is wrong with you?

Jesus Christ.

Take a valium or something.

[Jacobin]

41. Yes. She's the Commander-in-Chick

But on a more serious note, congress needs to re-assert itself as one of the third co-equal branches of government. Not an easy task after the corporate media has whined at anyone who questioned the dauphin's foreign policy blunders.

[Rydz777]

52. Exactly right. The "60 vote" excuse is just that - an excuse. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Cafferty is correct

Bill Press was talking about this very same point this morning in his show's closing comments.

[TahitiNut]

56. Yep. Nancy sure knows how to set a table, doesn't she? With funding and without impeachment.

I'm not inclined to dine at that table. People who dine at that table seem to swallow too much shit.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

69. She's serving

bullshit but is this is because she's chicken shit or is it something more unsavory?

[Hosnon]

62. Yes. Pelosi is afraid of how she (and most of the Democratic leadership) will

look if they refuse to bring a troop funding bill to the floor.

I believe that the Democrats were put into office to stop this war. As a result, they should not be afraid to do this...in fact, they should be afraid not to...they can still lose in the primaries...

[mmonk]

66. Yep.

It's what us "disloyal" shouted down people have been saying.

[paulk]

74. do you really think the American people would accept

a cut off to the war funding while American soldiers are engaged in a shooting war?

It would be political suicide for the Democrats to follow this strategy.

I know a lot of DUers think Pelosi is stupid.

She's not that stupid.