Is it a breach of ethics for a prostitute to name her clients?

[AngryAmish]

Many professions have written into their ethics code a duty of confidentiality (doctor, lawyer, etc.)

If one is employed as a prostitute does one have an obligation to remain silent about your clients?

Obviously the Sen. Vitter news got me thanking about this. Of course he should be named and shamed because he is scum.

I am thinking on an abstract level - like a prostitute naming a famous john to make a few bucks from a tabloid. I think due to the sensitive nature of their work prostitutes do have an ethical obligation in general to remain silent about their tricks.

[Javaman]

1. That's pretty abstract. nt

[Ian David]

2. If prostitution were legalized, we could write that into law. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I Agree But That's The Risk A Party To An Illegal Activity Takes

eom

[Exultant Democracy]

4. Look at the DC madam, I think it is all part of the risk the John takes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Jinx

eom

[MNDemNY]

6. Prostitutes are known for their ethics.

[rurallib]

35. Vitter should have checked for a certificate of prostitution ethics

prior to engaging her services.
:crazy: :rofl:

[Katherine Brengle]

88. Ugh. Why must we malign the prostitute? How about the "customers" being known

for theirs?

[txaslftist]

7. I don't know if they covered that at the hooker ethics CLE...

[porphyrian]

8. In Nevada, perhaps. But ethics don't really apply to criminal activity.

"...pirate..." - Capt. Jack Sparrow

[originalpckelly]

76. As it has been said, there is no honor among thieves.

Or in general, most criminals.

[Beelzebud]

9. LOL Is this a trick question?

[bryant69]

10. Is he a scum because he is a republican? Or what?

That said, I'm not sure there's an Prostitutitic Oath they take - frankly placing a man with a prostitute as a means of controlling him is a pretty old staple - the used in Heroes last year.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[NewJeffCT]

11. It might be an unwritten violation of "professional" ethics

but, prostitution is already a profession that is illegal just about everywhere. So, expecting ethics from an illegal profession is expecting a lot.

Granted, I'm guessing that most prostitutes would never divulge the names of their clients - it would hurt business - but, a person should not be surprised or shocked if it happens. ("nobody could have anticipated..." is a favorite Republic line, remember.)

[wuushew]

12. Slight language correction

"Is it a breach of ethics for a prostitute to name his or her clients?"

[AngryAmish]

18. True, true

my bad

[rurallib]

33. Like Jef Gannon fer instance.

[lpbk2713]

13. Seems like it would be a bad bidness decision to kiss and tell in that line of work.

Just sayin'

:shrug:

[PATRICK]

14. The assumption

that they have a higher, or existing, code of ethics compared to their Congressional clients appears to lend this question inherent merit. Anything would be more than Vitter's ethics.

[YOY]

15. There's a "Hooker with a heart of gold" joke in here somewhere...

n/t

[madinmaryland]

16. If it was a legal activity, then yes.

[Didereaux]

17. hey here's a couple of 'clients' for you...

Stanley the Stupid Virus seen out on the party circuit with Sen. David Vitter(R)LA
Full story(pic) here:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/12461951@N03/1366498706/

...you can follow the adventures of Stan here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12461951@N03/


jes' havin' a l'il fun!
;)

[Ilsa]

29. And the guy on Vitter's left is commenting on the size ...... nt

[mondo joe]

19. No one has the right to demand others be complicit in their political secrets.

Where confidentiality is assured - your priest, attorney, physician - there's a reasonable expectation.

Otherwise, no.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Those Ethical Rules Are Based, Primiarily. . .

. . . on the laws governing those professions or upon contract law. Neither applies here since this is an illegal activity so those laws do not apply.

So, i'd say no.
The Professor

[canetoad]

24. TY. Was gonna say something similar

On a practical level, a prostitute would have little to gain (business-wise) in exposing a client - unless he offended/hurt her in some way. If this ocurred, it would suggest a good reason - such as hypocrisy. :)

[AngryAmish]

27. Personal ethics exist outside of the law

For example it is not illegal to fart in church. But it is a bad thing to do.

Medical and legal ethics do have a statutory and common law basis. There are other jobs that have no legal duty of confidentiality yet it would be considered bad form for the person doing the job to talk about who their clients are or what they discovered doing their job. One can hire a plumber to fix a sewer line and no enforceable duty of confidentiality exists under the cash payment. Yet many single women would be horrified to find out their plumber was telling their friends and relatives that the sewer was clogged with used condoms. It would be unethical for the plumber to disclose such information.

Likewise, in general, I think a hooker should remain silent about their clients. There is no legal duty but a personal ethical duty does exist.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. Fair Enough

But, the professional nature is tenuous and the contract is null and void at the start. So, the obligation does not exist.

If you wish to extend ethical considerations beyond the obligatory, then there is no opposing point i can make to counter it, other than to say i disagree.
The Professor

[canetoad]

40. Is farting in church unethical?

Is a hooker ready to spill your guts?

[mondo joe]

52. It's bad to fart in church?

Or it's bad to do so loudly?

[canetoad]

54. Church demands SBS

Silent but sneaky

[mondo joe]

55. Like everything else about the church -- go ahead and do it, just so long

as you pretend you don't.

[Horse with no Name]

89. The pews are nice and hard

and it is pretty easy to trap the offending smell under you. Of course, you have to be certain that either MANY or NONE are standing around when you let the fart fragance escape.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

77. "Man who fart in church will sit in own pew..." - Confucious n/t

[Bake]

60. Farting in church is unethical?

Damn. Inconsiderate, maybe. Especially if you had beans and chili the night before. But unethical? Damn.

Bake

[tabasco]

86. So you think co-criminals like robbers, rapists, hired killers, etc. should keep quiet too.

I mean, everyone hates a snitch, right?

"There is no legal duty but a personal ethical duty does exist."

You've posted some stupid shit but this takes the cake.

There is every moral, legal, and ethical duty to expose a criminal.

[Romulox]

28. Actually, the principles of contract pretty much apply

to the transaction. Same as to drug deals.

Offer-->acceptance
consideration --> performance
you got --> I want

The principle difference is that the law refuses to assist in enforcing the terms of the contract should a dispute arise. But there is a contract, and there is a commonly accepted code of conduct surrounding the execution of that contract.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Nope. Sorry

Contract Law does not apply to transaction involving illegal activities. It's covered under the heading of Illegal Bargains. (Cite: Smith & Roberson's Business Law. Chapter 13)
The Professor

[mslawstudent]

37. Sure it does

Its just enforced by Italian men in snappy suits.

Also its an affirmative defense I believe. So much as its homicide to kill someone, then liability doesn't apply if he was breaking into your home shooting an uzi at you.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Doesn't Work That Way

You're talking criminal law versus civil law. I'm citing directly from a law book on contracts and statute of frauds! The examples actually include prostitution and one of the case studies is exactly that.

So, prostitution cannot be considered a legal contract under three aspects of contract law (the others are Unconscionable Act and Extrastatutory Under Public Interest), except of course in Nevada.

But, your line about enforcers in italian suits is a hoot!
The Professor

[Romulox]

44. You should probably cite the Restatement (2nd) of Contracts

or Farnsworth if you're looking for a definitive source on the subject; contract law is largely common law, so no one book or author (save maybe Farnsworth) is authoritative on the subject.

At any rate, you're really arguing a different point than I.

[Romulox]

41. Read my post again--I specifically said the law refuses to enforce such contracts

That doesn't change the facts that:

a) the contracts indeed exist (I offer to pay you for sex); and
b) the parties to the contract generally behave in a way defined as "ethical" by the sub-culture involved.


So irrespective of the illegality of the behavior, Johns expect to pay the agreed upon price for a prostitute's services. And of course, pimps see to the enforcement of this promise with a little "self-help" persuasion (i.e. Rocko).

[ProfessorGAC]

43. That Doesn't Make It A Contract

It's an agreement, yes. A contract no. By definition, an unenforceable contract is null and void. Therefore, doesn't exist. Something can't exist if it doesn't exist.

And, i would suggest that the "ethical" behavior is a strictly a matter of opinion. I doubt we would ever have sufficient valid data to support that the subculture maintains a specific set of ethics.

If that's your opinion, fine. It's not mine.
The Professor

[Romulox]

46. Farnsworth on unenforceability:

Although courts are fond of repeating the maxim in pari delicto potior est conditio defendentis ("where both parties are equally in fault, the position of the defendant is stronger"), a court will not necessarily condemn the entire agreement as unenforceable by both parties merely because it offends public policy. A court may hold instead that the agreement can be enforced by one of the parties though it cannot be enforced by the other. Or it may hold that part of the agreement is enforceable, though another part of it is not. It is therefore more accurate to say that the agreement or some part of it is unenforceable by one or both parties than to say it is "void".

Courts are also fond of condemning the unenforceable agreement as "illegal". This is misleading insofar as it suggests that some penalty is necessarily imposed on one of the parties, apart from the court's refusal to enforce the agreement. In some cases, the conduct that renders the agreement unenforceable is also a crime, but this is not necessarily or even usually so. It is therefore preferable to attribute unenforceability to grounds of public policy rather than to "illegality".


Farnsworth on Contracts §5.1.

[ProfessorGAC]

47. Same Thing I Said Earlier

Public interest, aafety or policy (based upon compelling need) is in the list i provided earlier.
GAC

[mslawstudent]

56. no its really not.

But the point I was trying to make is a contract is an agreement between two parties. Enforceability under civil law or gang enforcer is a separate issue. Also affirmative defenses apply in civil and criminal law.

Also even a void agreement exists under the law for various purposes.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. We'll Agree To Disagree

The Professor

[mondo joe]

51. Doesn't a contract require informed consent of all parties?

One may ASSUME a prostitute will keep your secret - but unless the prostitute has agreed to do so, it's just your assumption, hence your gamble.

[mslawstudent]

57. no course of trade

So if its standard dealing then its an assumed condition

[mondo joe]

63. Hm. I wonder how that applies to another circumstance -

for a long time now, there was a presumed confidentiality among gays. If you knew someone was gay, you kept it to yourself, and they did the same.

That's part of the phenomenon of "outing". The once assumed-code of silence was, and is, broken by some.

Being gay isn't a form of trade, of course, but if the code of silence has been the standard should it be assumed to be an ethical expectation?

[AngryAmish]

66. Or in the schoolyard

Someone does something bad and the teacher wants to know who did it. Sometimes there is a rat who will tell on fellow schoolmates. But there is a lot of pressure by fellow kids not to rat.

[mondo joe]

67. Or among police. Is it a breach of police ethics to rat on another cop doing

something wrong?

[AngryAmish]

68. Depends on who one is

If you are a cop, then yes.

Now from an objective point of view of course ratting is not wrong.

I just don't like rats.

[mondo joe]

69. So whether it is ethical or not depends on who you are?

Hmmm.

[AngryAmish]

72. I think you won that point

My dislike of rats overcame my reason.

[Romulox]

70. Not always...

There are contracts--and conditions--implied by law, customs/business practices, and circumstance.

[Justyce]

21. LOL!

[alfredo]

22. It's good business. If a hooker wants repeat business she has to

deliver value and assurances that she will be discreet. Johns won't go back to a hooker that goes on TV and exposes her clients, no matter how good the service.

[gollygee]

23. A breach of ethics?

If people hire prostitutes that's one of the risks they take. Actions have consequences.

[aikoaiko]

25. Professional Ethics: Another reason to legalize and regulate prostitution better in the US.

:)

[Marr]

26. Haha, -- yes, I'm sure the Ethics courses at Prostitute University are

very clear on that point.

[Ilsa]

30. It would be like viagra publishing a list of their customers. nt

[mondo joe]

50. Not so. Your example would violate medical privacy which is a well

established standard.

[Dorian Gray]

32. I don't think so...

though it won't be good for business.

[splat]

36. The profession predates law and philosophy n/t

[rateyes]

39. Let me check the handbook

and get back to you on that one. :rofl:

[Vinca]

58. That's the Republican handbook . . . right?

:rofl:

[rateyes]

71. Yeah, I swiped it from

the Reagan library! :evilgrin:

[Coexist]

42. this is what happens when you allow businesses to self-regulate,

instead of employing strict governmental controls.

:rofl:

[WinkyDink]

45. Well, for business purposes it makes sense to keep mum. But "ethics"?

[Kelly Rupert]

48. There is no such ethics code.

and, frankly, the only situation in which I can imagine there being one is if prostitution were legal and regulated.

[Hosnon]

49. Perhaps. But assuming this instance is such a breach, it may be justifiable.

Ethics are standards that can be overcome.

[frogcycle]

53. no, but naming her hoo-hah is frowned upon

Men, on the other hand, are free to name their whatchamacallit. I hear that "Vern" is a popular appellation.

[Bake]

61. Whatcha gon' do? Disbar the hooker?

Suspend her license?

This thread is a hoot!

:rofl:

Bake

[TwilightGardener]

62. That's a matter to be decided by her Prostitutorial Ethics Committee, who

will review the matter and make recommendations. I suggest we wait for the results of that investigation before we start accusing the woman of lacking ethics.

[frogcycle]

81. They will send her a strongly worded memo.

[Cleita]

64. I don't know. It seems though that since it's not a legal

profession, here in most of the USA, there are no real rules or codes of ethics involved to follow.

[AlCzervik]

65. Is there some oath they take?

[frogcycle]

83. yeah, it goes something like this:

uhhh uhhh ohhh ohhhhh ohhh ohhhh my god!

[AlCzervik]

84. bet they fake it.

:D

[frogcycle]

85. bet they fake it better than britney's lipsynching

[Cha]

73. Is that an

Oyxmoron?

[Bluebear]

74. What do you suggest, take away her beeper for a month on "ethics charges"?

[mondo joe]

78. Something tells me there might be quite a market for unethical prostitutes.

:-)

[originalpckelly]

75. Of course, I mean prostitute client privilege is one of our most sacred rights!

:sarcasm:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. Politicians are very ethical. They try never to tell who their "contributors" are.

Similar profession. 'Cept the politicians are the fuckERs.

[Xithras]

80. Only a moron gives a prostitute their real name anyway.

Seriously, it's a well known scam for dishonest prostitutes to do a John one time, and then demand additional payments to keep quiet about it. Smart John's use fake names, and those cheap $20 disposable phones to call them on.

Of course it's unethical for a prostitute to name her clients, but there are a lot of unethical prostitutes in the world.

[rucky]

82. Maybe she should resign. n/t

[Katherine Brengle]

87. Nah.

[Skittles]

90. they suck dick for a living

I doubt if ethics is their forte