What do you make of the following businesses?

[PM Martin]

In terms of investment/profit, which one seems to be the best to you and which one seems to be the worst? Anything in between?

-A home oil/energy provider service (one that delivers oil and propane to homes and businesses for heating/cooking, etc...
-A car dealership
-Scrap Metal Recycling
-Citrus Farming (Orange Juice plants)
-Inns(small hotels)
-Export Services(commercial/industrial goods such as air conditioners/heaters/furnaces/trucks/construction equiptment/store equiptment)
-Radio/Television Stations

[wuushew]

1. not inns

those places are constantly going under.

[AX10]

26. Agreed.

[Maq]

2. citrus farrming or processing

Set up your citrus operation in Central America and export to the USA or elsewhere in the world.

The citrus industry is in a severe decline due to inflated prices of LAND in the citrus belts, e.g.Florida Wages cannot compete with them either. Further, old infrastructure of the citrus industry is more inefficient than new plants in the developing world like Brazil.


Use your investment dollars in setting up a Transportation Long Haul Trucking company. Buy land and NEW trucks from overseas and operate from MEXICO to serve the Heartland of USA to Canada. Cheap labor. cheaper trucks, GPS locators, Internet mapping technologies,

[PM Martin]

3. What if I just own a processing plant...

and buy the citrus cheap from overseas?

[Maq]

7. I have seen two or three or more vacant down here inForida

Bynum Tankers deliver Orange Juice Concentrate from Mexico to Florida on a regular basis.

I bet that Company will go under soon enough. They can only bring their Tank Trailers to the Mexican Border for the mexican drivers to take to their Juice Plants. When the Long Haul Mexican Drivers can dliver across the USA border, why hire BYNUM.

A generic Juice processing operation can bottle up any drink. Soda, juice in gallon, quarts or pints etc. Mix concentrate, water and juice oils and blend. Put on your Sticker or label to the bottle. Ship by local truck to the store.

A Private Label juice plant may work. Expensive to build from scratch. Multi million dollars for Stainless Steel tanks and machinery. Good luck.

[PM Martin]

8. This company seems to be surviving

http://www.silverspringscitrus.com/

..and this one too:

http://www.bluelakecitrus.com/

[Maq]

13. Surviving is the Key Word against foreign competition

Golden Gem Growers went bankrupt two days after the World Trade Center went down. This was six years ago, 14 Sept 2001. About 800 employees got the pink slip then. Many employees went to Silver Springs Citrus but they too are working for an enterprise which must compete with the Brazillians with their huge Orange Citrus operations. Concentrate OJ is shipped by Tanker Ships to Florida.

I wonder if there is room for a small guy to compete. The big Conglomerates like Dreyfus the french outfit have huge orchards in the thousands of acres in Brazil.




http://www.ams.usda.gov/news/004-04.htm
http://funandsun.com/1tocf/agriculture/orangegrowers.html

[PM Martin]

16. How many acres of land does Dreyfus own?

[Maq]

18. THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS see their URL

Golden Gem Growers went bankrupt two days after the World Trade Center went down. This was six years ago, 14 Sept 2001. About 800 employees got the pink slip then. Many employees went to Silver Springs Citrus but they too are working for an enterprise which must compete with the Brazillians with their huge Orange Citrus operations. Concentrate OJ is shipped by Tanker Ships to Florida.

I wonder if there is room for a small guy to compete. The big Conglomerates like Dreyfus the french outfit have huge orchards in the thousands of acres in Brazil.




http://www.ams.usda.gov/news/004-04.htm
http://funandsun.com/1tocf/agriculture/orangegrowers.html




Belgium
SOURCE: http://www.louisdreyfus.com/content.cfm?page=contacts.cfm&gbus=2&rightmenu=default
EXCERPT:

...Louis Dreyfus Citrus is one of the world's three largest orange juice processors, which together account for over 60 percent of total production. The company's orange juice production represents more than 12 percent of worldwide production.

The company, in common with its three main competitors, has its operations center in the state of São Paulo, Brazil. Because of excellent soil and climactic conditions, this is the lowest cost-producing region in the world, providing over 80 percent of the export market in orange juice concentrate.

Louis Dreyfus Citrus has two processing plants in São Paulo and two in Florida (USA). Florida is the world's second largest orange producer, accounting for 16 percent of total production. In addition to the processing plants, the company owns orange farms in São Paulo.

Farms are located in favorable orange producing regions because of their soil and weather patterns. They are also close to Louis Dreyfus Citrus' industrial plants, with an average distance of 150 kilometers (approximately 95 miles), an advantage for field surveying and fruit logistics.

Orange juice processing is a growing industry. World production has increased about 50 percent in the last 12 years, and forecasts are that it will continue to thrive in line with demand, which has been growing at annual rates of 2 to 4 percent...


Louis Dreyfus Citrus Juice Terminal
Sifferdok Kaai 1010
9000 Ghent
Belgium
T 32-9 250 9195
F 32-9 250 9198
E [e-mail]

Brazil
Louis Dreyfus Citrus
Avenida Brigadeiro Faria Lima, 1355
14° Andar
Pinheiros CEP
01451-903 Sao Paulo, SP
Brazil
T 55-11 3039 6700
T 55-11 3039 6881
F 55-11 3814 3235
E [e-mail]
more info

Louis Dreyfus Commodities Brasil
Rodovia Armando de Salles Oliveira
KM 396
14700 Bebedouro-SP
Brazil
T 55 0 17 344 6000
F 55 17 344 6003
more info

Louis Dreyfus Commodities Brasil
Estrada da Fazenda, 6000
Bairro Boa Vista
15990 Matao-SP
Brazil
T 55 0 16 282 1122
F 55 0 16 282 1427
more info

France
Louis Dreyfus Citrus
87 Avenue de la Grande Armee
75782 Paris Cedex 16
France
T 33-1 45 00 20 20
F 33-1 40 66 13 33
E [e-mail]
more info



Netherlands
Louis Dreyfus Citrus
Westblaak 92-3rd floor
Westblaakbouw
3012 KM Rotterdam
Netherlands
T 31-10 411 0480
F 31-10 413 0432
E [e-mail]
more info

United States
Louis Dreyfus Citrus
PO Box 1980
19100 SW Warfield Boulevard
Indiantown, Florida 34956
United States
T 772 597-3511
F 772 597-2596
more info

Louis Dreyfus Citrus
20 Westport Road
Wilton, Connecticut 06897-0810
United States
T 203 761-8474
F 203 761-8482
E [e-mail]
more info

Louis Dreyfus Citrus
PO Box 770399
Winter Garden, Florida 34777-0399
United States
T 407 656-1000
F 407 656-1229
E [e-mail]
more info

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. Which "New" trucks from overseas would you suggest this person buy?

and how do you figure they would be any cheaper? Cheaper than what?

And suggesting ANYONE attempt to enter the long haul trucking market in the US without a whole lot of experience and a defined traffic lane/market is tantamount to suggesting that person wad his money up and burn it.

Good luck with the rest of that suggestion, too. You'll have as much luck being profitable using the

operate from MEXICO to serve the Heartland of USA to Canada. Cheap labor. cheaper trucks, GPS locators, Internet mapping technologies,

model as you would the "pull a little red wagon" model.

[Maq]

17. I would suggest that there are United Styates tariffs

against importation of foreign Trucks such as Volvo, Mitsibishi, Japanese or Korean heavy trucks. However, the central american countries may not have these bars set up to prevent the sale of these vehicles. What is to prevent a company from owning say cheap VOLVOs versus a Peterbilt and running the truck on the Interstate Sysrtem.

They could also hire their own Nationality at a cheaper wage rate. Do these countries have to worry about Benefits or health insurance like Americans???

What is to prevent them from putting extra or larger fuel tanks on them trucks and buying fuel from Pemex or Chavez.Cheaper.

Most American Truck outfits have Geo Syncro...positioning systems to track where their trucks are at in real time. No reasn to have the company headquarters in a central place. An American Trucking concern could set up a mexican headquarters as effectively as in say Ohio. There is satellite access to the internet too. Yopu have a computer, you can know where to go.

And why could'nt this fellow buy up a failing American Company and relocate the darn thing to the Yucatan or Laredo, Texas border.
Shitcan the obsolete physical equipment and buy more efficient new trucks etc. Keep the essential Company expertise.

Beside, I am not here to construct a business plan for him. Just ideas.

NAFTA is going to screw up the Transportation industry and those who talk about it now can survive.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. Yes. Quite.

Your deep, thorough knowledge of the North American ground transportation system and it's myriad regulations and taxation are clear to me now.

What is to prevent them from putting extra or larger fuel tanks on them trucks and buying fuel from Pemex or Chavez.Cheaper.

What an ASTOUNDINGLY GOOD IDEA! Why is it that no one is currently doing this? It sounds so fucking simple!


Ummm....try "Weight restrictions" and "Bridge formula" for starters. Next, Google "Operating authority" and "IFTA".

BTW, Volvo trucks are already available in the US
http://www.volvo.com/trucks/na/en-us/
So are Mitsubishi, just not class 8
http://www.mitfuso.com/
Good luck trying to buy a DAF in the US
http://www.daftrucks.com/ (owned by the same company that makes Pete's and KW's anyway)
or a MAN or an ERF
http://www.man-mn.co.uk/en/en.jsp
You could buy a Mercedes, but you might as well buy a Freightliner cause they're owned by MB.
Then you have to find the drivers worth a fuck that are willing to drive a short wheelbase, European Cabover shitbox. Or a short wheelbase, Asian cabover shitbox.



When you're done, .....
ahh...never mind.

No point in conversing with someone who obviously has such a firm grasp on the international truck transportation system.

[Hestia]

4. Scrap Metal - because those places have always made money

in a recession, really anytime (they are a cash cow) and the costs of metal is high right now. Where I live, you ought to see the people lined up at the recycling place with thier shopping carts full of scavanged metal. Of course, the liquor store is right next door. Sad, ain't it?

[jbm]

6. I agree....

I am a vendor who spends lots of time in all sorts of businesses. One of the places on my route is a second generation family owned scrap metal business. Tha family is VERY wealthy, but they are also great liberal Democrats who share the wealth with their employees. Scrap metal may not seem very glamorous, but I think it is a very lucrative business.

[rjones2818]

5. Exporting!

As long as you're not in the US (unless you're in the armaments business)!

You know...that acutally deserves a :(

[Maq]

9. Where do you want to set up Canada or the USA or elsewhere

Your canadian flag icon may mean that you are happy the Canadian Dollar is almost at Par with the US dollar.

Where are you from.

[PM Martin]

10. Canada

[Maq]

15. There used to be a Canadian Tank Truck that would make the trip to Florida

for about 3500 gallons of OJ concentrate and bring it back to Toronto area....Kingston??
Then reprocess the juice for local sale in the the Toronto area.

I can't remembwr the outfit.

Memory: getting dim. 3500gallons OJ concentrate makes eight times the volume of OJ in the store or about 28,000 gallons of juice.

I suppose there would be a market around the Montreal area too. Maybe the Maritimes.

[PM Martin]

19. Who do you buy the concentrate from?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

11. Scrap metal, if you want to have a business in 20 years...

oil delivery... maybe

car dealership- you could make a few bucks for a few years.

Citrus farming - factor in huge escalating transportation costs.

Inns - boarding house would probably be better

Export - as long as you don't mind waiting for a year or two to get your orders. (oil powered shipping will no longer be feasible)

[PM Martin]

12. Thanks. Also...

Do you know if oil delivery services is very profitable?
How does an independent car dealer do these days?

Thanks. :hi:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

20. I don't have much of an idea really...

I'm guessing oil delivery would depend on how dense your customer base is (how many people in a certain area depend on oil). and remember that quantity used will shrink dramatically over the next several years (combination of conservation, high cost, peak oil etc.)

Used car dealers should do okay for the next 10 years or so, but no way would I put money into a new car dealership. I've also noticed salaries for salesman has gone down quite a bit over the last 10 years, so I'm thinking the dealers can't be doing great...

I'm no business consultant, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :D

[PM Martin]

21. Why will the used dealers do well for the next 10 years and..

why would you not invest in a new car dealership?

[Richard Steele]

22. Because our economy is declining, wages are down and unemployment is up....

And it's going to get worse before it starts getting better.

People will be buying more used cars, and fewer new,
just because that's all they can afford.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. unless it's fully electric,

I don't see auto sales as a booming business. People are hurting (economy) sales have already started dropping, credit is tapped out, etc. But for the foreseeable future, auto transport will be necessary for most of the population, at least for work, food. Used cars will still sell.
At the very least we will be having gas shortages in the near future, it would be nice to own the only dealership in town selling electric cars, scooters, and personal transportation pods! :evilgrin:

[AX10]

25. Scrap Metal is a very profitable business.

Consider concentrating on aluminum because it is very expensive to make from scrap (from the ground).
Many processors would pay to get aluminum at a better rate from a recycler rather than pay a big company like Alcoa or Alcan.

As for citrus, buying concentrate and packaging your own should bring in a respectable income. Farming is not an easy path to take, especially if you are an independent.