The "frozen" parts of the "bin Laden" video contain all of the contemporary references

[eridani]

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/9/9/61032/95401

Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 36 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The audio track does appear to be in the voice of a single speaker. What I suspect was done is that an older, unreleased video was dubbed over for this release, with the video frozen when the audio track departed from that of the original video.

The video may be downloaded as a 677 mb MPEG file here.

http://ia341242.us.archive.org.nyud.net/3/items/aqAQq/s.MPG

Voice morphing is a distinct possibility for dubbing over the "frozen" parts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.

For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.

"Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things," says Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military's school for information warfare.

Digital morphing — voice, video, and photo — has come of age, available for use in psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.

To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military operation or coup.

voice morphing references--

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1561
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/introduction.html
http://www.ircam.fr/288.html?&L=1&tx_ircam_pi2
http://www.public-action.com/911/voice-simulation

Comments referring to the previous bin Laden tape of 2006--

http://www.unknownnews.org/060214a-Barrett.html

The trouble is, it's all based on a Big Lie. Take the recent "bin Laden" tape please! That voice was no more bin Laden than it was Rodney Dangerfield channeling my late Aunt Corinne from Peoria. I recently helped translate a previously unknown bin Laden tape, a real one from the early '90s, back when he was still alive. I know the guy's flowery religious rhetoric. The recent tape wasn't him.

The top American bin Laden expert agrees. Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University's religious studies department, has just published a book of translations of bin Laden's speeches. He says that the recent tape is a fake and that it is possible bin Laden is not even alive.

Some native speakers of Arabic think the 2006 speech was written in English and translated into Arabic.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june06/osama_1-19.html

MAMOUN FANDY: Right, but this particular tape is not terribly inspiring, just looking at the language of it. This is the first tape of bin Laden that has no single verse from the Koran. It does not have the flowery language of Arabic.

It seems to me that it is written in English first, and then translated into Arabic. It is very western style of tape. It is not very characteristic of bin Laden, at least it tells me that the non-Arabic speaking within the al-Qaida network are taking over the organization –

JIM LEHRER: You mean he didn't write this is what you are suggesting?

MAMOUN FANDY: The Arabic speakers in al-Qaida, the parts that are coming from the Arab world, are losing to the non-Arabic speaker, so it's really becoming more of a South Asian organization, rather than an Arab organization.

This reminds me of those old science fiction magazine contests--translate a well-known title into French and report the English retranslation. "Mr. Robot. It's me!" Of course Babelfish and its kin open up a much wider set of possibilities for this sort of thing.

[Terri S]

1. K & R

I must admit, whenever a new 'bin Laden' tape surfaces I just pay no attention to it at all. I have no doubt from the timing and the history of this administration that they are carefully calculated propaganda pieces. This is an interesting observation, and I haven't seen anyone bring it up before.

[Mad_Dem_X]

26. Same here

My response is always the same: "Oh, gee, how convenient!"

[krispos42]

72. I first saw the observation in a thread...

on the DU from a DUer that was trolling on freeperville. Seems he found an entire freeper thread about how none of them believe the Bin Laden tape was real, for similar reasons.

I guess even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while, eh?

[druidity33]

2. excellent observation. k&r nt

[midnight]

3. Can someone explain what digital morphing is?

[notadmblnd]

5. remember the sit com Rosanne?

at one point the opening theme showed pictures of the family as they grew and changed? that is video/digital morphing. also in one of Michael Jackson's video; "Man in the Mirror? At the end, where people smile into the camera and change into a different person till the end of the song? Those I think are examples of video/digital morphing.

[Clark2008]

20. I always think of Godley & Creme's video, "Cry," when I

consider digital morphing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godley_&_Creme

[annabanana]

4. It's looking more and more like a mock-up.

Was it never intended to be more than a one day distraction/filler? It's a pretty bad job if it was meant to be convincing...

[Christa]

6. K & R

Just in time to remind us about 9/11 again.

[robinlynne]

15. or just in time for the petraus report.

[Atman]

7. Another observation...he even changes propotions at the time break

Scrub the video back and forth at the moment he comes back "live," around 12:40. He physically changes shape, becomes squattier and wider. You don't even have to look that closely, it's obvious...his hat becomes wider, his proportions in general change. And his fake beard really takes on a humorous ultra-fakiness, but that is purely subjective on my part. The change in proportions is not subjective, though. You can see for yourself.

.

[Beartracks]

55. Is there some notion among conservatives...

...that psy-ops can't be exercised ON Americans, but only BY Americans?

These are all very intriguing observations...

[RoccoR5955]

87. Absolutely Correct...

His nose becomes wider as well as his shoulders.
This does not look like a change in proportions due to the camera, but rather a different person.

[Canuckistanian]

8. That's quite a revelation

I think one of the Arabic bloggers commented on the large amount of still video.

Now that REAL experts have analyzed the language and deemed it to be uncharacteristic, I think it's fairly likely that the tape is a fake.

[Atman]

10. They already have the added advantage of digital noise and artifacts

If this was good old film, the bullshit would be even more obvious. But with digital transfers, all they have to do is over-do the compression and all the artifacts in the video further blur and distort the image, making in nearly impossible for any layman (ie, anybody without a first-generation video) to detect screw-ups and tells. It's almost too easy.

.

[iaviate1]

35. Fake and our government probably is behind it.

OBL has given this administration so much power... I don't understand how some of us cannot begin to question whether 9/11 was an inside job. I believe this is just part of the mass manipulation of the American citizenry. As others habe mrntioned, the timing of events is always suspect.

[negativenihil]

9. k&r n/t

[EVDebs]

11. Combine Op Mockingbird with military PsyOps and VOILA !

Who would do such a thing ? I mean this is getting old, folks. EVERY time BushCo is in the tank and desparately needs even a tiny boost, Johnny-In-The-Rathole pops up. Hasn't anyone told our military that you can only abuse these techniques for only so long ?

[leftofthedial]

12. Everything the bush gang tells us about 9-11, bin Laden,

their string of illegal invasions and occupations, our economy---EVERYTHING---is a lie.

[SmokingJacket]

13. I recently read Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink"

Point is: sometimes you just KNOW something's a fake.

I'm going to go back and watch it, now.

[gateley]

61. Exactly. And when we ignore our "knowing" we can end up talking ourselves

into believing what we want to believe (even though that knowing is still there like an undercurrent that we ignore).

[rox63]

14. Unfortunately, no one in the MSM has even suggested that maybe it's not authentic

They just keep doling out the BushCo kool-aid to the masses. I want my free press back, dammit! :grr:

[RainDog]

25. More than 80 thousand people have seen the video at BooMan

so he says in comments on the post - and that was less than 24 hours after it was posted.

[robcon]

16. The audio is probably "genuine"

but the video combines two different speeches - an old one (with video) and some dubbed in new parts (without video) to make contemporary references.

Pretty lame attempt by al Qaeda, IMO.

[knitter4democracy]

28. It doesn't sound like him, though.

I remember his triumphal tone and ringing sounds from an older tape, and this one sounds like a bureaucrat, not a leader. The tones are all wrong, and it just plain sounds like someone else.

[JuniperLea]

31. by al Qaeda,?

Really?

[eridani]

53. With voice morphing, audio can be "genuine" and fake at the same time

The phonemes are captured from the actual voice of the person that they want to write a new script for, and so be "genuine" in that sense. The new script is fake by any definition of the word, however.

Please spread the word on voice morphing. It seems like everybody who questions the provenance of the tapes is focusing on whether or not the video is faked when there is absolutely no need to do so. Genuine but old video content is readily available, and only the voice needs to be changed. And with voice morphing, it can actually be the real voice, so that the "experts" aren't even lying when they say that it's his voice.

[slampoet]

75. Are you comparing Spectrograms? or are you just talking out your ass?

There is nothing to say that this is "Probably genuine"


Have you cross compared anything or are you just typing the assertion just to try push a point without any proof?


Could you even measure the size of the room this speech was made in if you had to? I can with a single pindrop. Want to know how? It's actually on the links referred to in the original text.

[Hyper_Eye]

17. I noted that Friday

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=52868&mesg_id=52895

The argument was thrown out that the cause could be YouTube and flash. That can't be the case as the rest of the graphics in the video continue to play such as the subtitles. YouTube may cause bits of a video to be still while the audio still plays and the video will catch up when it can. YouTube will not cause a single part of a video to be still. Even if it could cause a single part of a video to be still it would be a strange coincidence that the part that becomes still is the box containing the taped video.

[yardwork]

18. If Bruce Lawrence says it is a fake, I believe it's a fake.

Come to think of it, I thought it was a fake when I first heard about it.

[Javaman]

19. Having worked in video editing for years and have ample experience

with digital effects, I have never believe for one second any of the tapes as far back as 2001 were real. I think they are nothing more than an amalgamation of tapes from the 90's, then having an impostor dub in what ever is needed.

[Pawel K]

34. What, technically speaking, makes you so sure the videos are fake?

I'm curious as to what evidance you have of this to make such a conclusion.

In this recent case my gut certainly tells me this is a fake, but I am not going to go out and claim the Bush administration produced this until we can get some real proof, and if they did do this people like you with your years of experiance should be able to point out the evidance without breaking a sweat.

[Javaman]

37. aside from my general distrust of the admin*...

just my trained eye alone can spot all the doctored video. One thing that I picked up long ago was the drop outs. That's when the video loses picture and either causes no signal (image) to appear or you get garbage on the screen.

the drop outs are the easiest place to hide edits. Unless you have the original source material, you really can't detect it unless you are looking for it. Because it just looks like garbage (scrambled, pixalization, interference, etc) However, if you know what to look for you will detect a subtle shift in the color quality.

What really needs to be done, is to take a tape and put it on a vector scope and a wave form monitor. it will show us everything we need to know.

The vector scope will show us the color shift and the waveform will show us how the authentic the signal is to the edits. If there is a cut, no matter how well matched, it will show it.

What is being done, as I see it, they, (whom ever they are) that are putting these videos together are relying on the fact that the more crappy the image looks the more "authentic" it will appear. They are trying to tell us that a guy who supposedly masterminded 9/11 doesn't have access to a either a mini-dv video recorder?

all these tapes look cira 1991 VHS. That was the very first thing that tipped me off.

[eridani]

52. Do you have access to a vector scope or a wave form monitor?

If so, is a YouTube replica adequate for determining authenticity?

[kineneb]

56. how about this idea

I tend to agree with you, especially about the video quality. So here are my (tinfoily) thoughts...
...given the timing of this "release" and others,
...given the fact that the WH folks think they understand technology (their lack of understanding even how e-mail works makes me doubt they have real IT people around),
...given the poor quality of all the videos, when OBL can buy whatever he wants,
...given that the current release looks like OBL from the early 1990s, instead of his later photos,
...given that OBL was/is rumored to be on dialysis, and would not have been getting the best care in the caves,
(The last photos look to me like a person who's body is breaking down due to poor dialization. I know what this looks like, up close and personal; Hubby is not doing well. OBL appeared to age rapidly, which is consistant with the effects of poor dialysis.)

...I am willing to bet that someone in the pay of the WH has been producing these releases.

There, now donning my tinfoil hat.:tinfoilhat:

[Tunkamerica]

78. bingo

He's the head of the scariest gang in the world and he's using a thoroughly obsolete camera? I mean even the cheapest consumer mosel that's out now would be better, more compact, easier to upload onto the internet. I mean, is he really so tight fisted he can't spring for a decent camera?

[slampoet]

81. Actually the question is what happened to the Good camera he already had?

All the video from 1996-2001 are picture perfect.

[slampoet]

80. Bravo. Good explination. As an audio expert let me add my comments.

The audio on this tape and all the ones since 2002 is horribly distorted and has nearly every frequency above 2000 hertz removed. It sounds like this was done with a non-resonant Low Pass filter, a digital one. That kind of filter is standard in video editing software like Adobe Premier and Vegas Video.

If the video was edited with a circa 2000-2005 software, then why is the camera used not a digital camera? All the video shot before shot in caves before 9-11 was with a digital camera.


The frequencies above 2000 hertz up to 5000 are the area that our ears are most sensitive towards and contain the most information for distinguishing between people's voices. (Fletcher-Munson curve etc.)



Also why in some of the videos is Bin Laden speaking directly into a microphone yet the audio has the rooms' echo?

If Bin Laden is speaking into a mic (a cardioid mic pointed up at his mouth) then there should only be the direct sound of his voice and a little echo off the wall in back of him. Any person recording him would have fed a line from the mic he was talking into DIRECTLY into the audio jack on the camera.

Yet in the videos we can hear that the audio has the echo of the room in order to give the impression that he is speaking in a room with lots of reverb. This means whoever doctored the audio wanted to give us the impression that he either A) was speaking to a room full of people and the mic that can be seen is for a sound system, or B) they added reverberation to obscure something in the audio that needed to be hidden. My guess digital aliasing from a particular kind of voice morphing. Either that or they got a "Rich Little" and want to add enough noise that people can't hear the difference in voices.

I have gotten a good copy of this suitable for spectrogram work and will be reporting on anything i can find.

But let this be said. If i had to do a job like this under any conditions, I'd expect my work to be MUCH better than this, whether i was doing a real interview and then smuggling tape by camel or if i was in Blackwater's basement with a Macbook and some old grainy archive of stuff.

Remember that a good digital camera can shoot BETTER than broadcast video, cost less than $300, be smaller than a juicebox, can connect to the internet in seconds, and can save the video and audio to a Flash Ram Card so small you could fit it under a postage stamp. You can fit a whole recording studio in your pocket and a full fidelity hear-a-flea-fart microphone in the other pocket and both camera and mic can run off of the batteries found in every land in the world.

There is not such a thing as "He's in a cave" when it come to this.


The audio in these videos is VERY suspicious.

[Pawel K]

90. Thanks for the explaination, that's exactly what I was looking for

I have no clue what a vector scope is so excuse my arrogance but is there anyway to do this to a video that is not the original but the copy? If so why hasn't this been done yet? Or has it?

[tom_paine]

21. The forgeries are debunkable and clearly so

but the vast VAST majority of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika will NEVER get 1% of the information necessary to make their own judgement one way or another.

The ballistic arc of Tyranny...

[Kelly Rupert]

22. Two huge problems with this conspiracy theory:

1. The Bush administration has been downplaying this tape's importance and OBL's importance in the war on terror. It does not make sense to fake-up a tape of him and then say over and again it's no big deal and that he's not a threat.

2. It's pretty fucking easy to morph someone's mouth. It'd be no big deal at all to just make his lips move to correspond to the new audio--in fact, it would be easier to do than to create the new audio.

I might believe that some supporters of his released this with a (soundalike providing a dub), trying to convince the world he didn't die of kidney failure in 2003 or something. But Bushco? Not a chance.

[ooglymoogly]

30. I have already heard several right wing propagandists

say B L sounded like one of those crazy liberals. B. L. = liberal = 9/11 = evil. Propaganda 101

[Raksha]

33. That's what ALL the RWWs say. I tell them it's because

Bin Laden's lines were written at the Heritage Foundation and then translated into Arabic. I was being semi-sarcastic, but I guess I was more right than I realized!

[JuniperLea]

32. Really?

LOL

[Kelly Rupert]

36. Care to respond,

or just to laugh in incomprehension?

[PATRICK]

38. Bushco equal shoddy

and shoddy works for them as well. It seems to grant plausible deniability to many Bush critics who can't nail down the intentionality from the incompetence. Voting machines blatantly breaking down and breaking down in such ways as to almost always serve WH interests. in fact, it is in the breaking down that most of damage is done. But why would they not make slick, invisible pickpocket machinery instead? maybe because they shrug and realize how tough it is and the more you go for perfection the harder you fall. They game the insufficiencies themselves and save a pile of money.

The tapes(or rather the USE of them even more than the source of their actual provenance) are equally a taunt to anyone to DO anything about the blatant fraud, a taunt even against Al Qaeda to get off its butt and do something beautiful for Bush. Al Qaeda or WHOEVER made these tapes is Bush's terror Diebold. Using the full professional resources of the "evil" CIA or whatever will have the potential of leaks from using
outside the inner circle tools with a dawning conscience. Note the attempt to plant WMD's, Diebold, the recent flying of nukes. It is all an unmistakable pattern and it works on a dare no one takes up and on full monte exploitation very few can wrap their imagination around.

So long as they are able to continue their single power ploy- to make everything that ever happens work in their favor because that is the ONLY thing they concentrate on even in building the shoddy machinery of evil themselves. If it works in a world where they seem to reign unchallenged and supreme in actual exercise of abusive power in an unassailable office quality control if a regrettable casualty, an expendable asset. Everything is turned topsy turvy. When challengers or the Congress act in any way to play by these unspoken rules they are set permanently on their head.

The public reaction of WH and their tools is to taunt Al Qaeda and not be credited for both provoking terror and simultaneously doing nothing about it. Shoddy politics right? This is what they do. This what they get away with no matter how many billions of victimized humans can see through any part of the garbage. We are in the garbage looking out. They are piling it on, as their way of covering up the
gaps. In the study of absolutism and tyranny, these goons set new standards, new models, but the same crap just used and flung with ever fixed and determined purpose.

Nothing like having a public forum, the MSM, which cannot pose even the slightest possible query to the
blatant efforts. The great diversion is enforced by them- and their shoddiness. A scientist is simply just another "administration critic" and a stunning crisis is given little airtime and no chance at all to be pursued as a necessary challenge to WH power. Bushco is not a dilapidated, leaky shack divided, no matter how the paint peels or what boards fall.

[Spazito]

41. Not quite true....

The WH has come out saying 'bin Laden's message' shows that bush's policy to stay there is the right thing to do and bush, himself, has said essentially the same. They are using it for their own benefit, that is hardly downplaying it, imo.





In Sydney, President Bush told reporters: "The tape is a reminder about the dangerous world in which we live. And it is a reminder that we must work together to protect . . . against these extremists who murder the innocent in order to achieve their political objectives."

"I found it interesting that on the tape Iraq was mentioned, which is a reminder that Iraq is a part of this war against extremists," Bush continued. "If al-Qaeda bothers to mention Iraq, it is because they want to achieve their objectives in Iraq, which is to drive us out and to develop a safe haven."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090700279.html

[paparush]

48. SEE! This is what I don't get. The tape is a HUGE reminder of what a Fuck Up'W' is...

He said years ago he was gonna get this guy, and he hasn't done it. Period. The tape should smack Joe Six Pack in the face, and JSP should say, "Damn, I remember that guy. Hey, goshdarnit, didn't W say he was gonna get that guy? Shoot, man, W can't Git 'er Done!"

[Spazito]

49. bush has already lost all credibility with the American public with

the exception of the 23% talked about by John Dean so this tape means nothing regardless of how the corporate media tries to help ratchet up the fear in order to aid him.

The tape IS a reminder but only one of many as to why the WH, bush has no credibility, imo.

[eridani]

54. That isn't what the tape is for

It is to be used in conjunction with the right wing noise machine (it was on all the whackjob shows last week) to demonize libruls as endorsers of bin Laden. Don't you still get emails from whackjob relative occasionally about how we really did find WMD in Iraq? Years from now, this video and its related talking points will be circulated by the same whackjob elements. If you repeat lies often enough, they become truth for that segment of the population which isn't paying attention--an uncomfortably large number.

[berni_mccoy]

44. Wrong: "Bush Says Bin Laden Tape Shows Importance of Resolve (Update1) "

"Bush Says Bin Laden Tape Shows Importance of Resolve (Update1) "

From: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.mEV3movPuw&refer=home

Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush described a video allegedly featuring al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden as ``a reminder of the dangerous world in which we live.''

``It's important that we show resolve, determination to protect ourselves and deny al-Qaeda safe haven,'' Bush said following a meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at an Asia-Pacific economic conference in Sydney.

``I found it interesting that, on the tape, Iraq was mentioned, which is a reminder that Iraq is a part of this war against extremists,'' Bush said.

How timely of OBL to make this tape (or for the CIA to release it).

And 2: Not so easy unless you want to make the doctoring of the video completely obvious (it would completely show up in any analyzer that could tell compression level application and how many times the stream had been reprocessed and doctored). It's far easier to craft an undoctored fake and hide the obvious than it is to modify the bits seamlessly thereafter.

[creeksneakers2]

60. possible explanation for point 1

Nearly all Bush/right wing propaganda is aimed at wingers. Wingers are quite capable of simultaneously holding two contradictory ideas in their heads. If the winger is confronted with the fact that Bush hasn't captured Bin Laden, the winger can pull out his "Bin Laden doesn't matter" defense. If the winger is confronted with an idea that Bin Laden is no longer a threat so we don't need Bush's war on terror, the winger can call up his terrorism paranoia training. I listen to these guys on the radio and its amazing how well trained they are.

So much of what is said in these tapes is a confirmation of right wing propaganda. There are associations between Democrats and terrorists, associations between end the war in Iraq and Bin Laden celebrating victory. It all matches up exactly with the right wing messages for the weeks the tapes come out in. The timing couldn't be better for right wing propaganda purposes.

[Kelly Rupert]

63. But you and I know the solid wingers don't need propaganda.

They don't need to be shown a video of a bearded guy talking in a language they don't speak for them to think that terror is a threat, or to think that bin Laden doesn't matter, or to think that the Republicans must protect them. Partisans don't base thought in reality--and they see confirming evidence in everything.

These threads are proof of that.

[slampoet]

76. It isn't easy to morph a mouth.

Doing so leaves small pixel traces on every frame of video that are also exasserbated by the conversion from PAL to NTSC.

[Mountainman]

23. Reich wing talk radio this week was about Osama and how much he agrees with Dems.

I think this tape could be propaganda to help win more support for the surge among the American people.

[RoccoR5955]

88. That was my first thought

When I heard that it mentioned the Democrats, I surmised that this was a Bushco, Inc. production.
If bin Laden is alive, he is living in the basement of the Whore... I mean White House.

[bbgrunt]

24. and I have yet to see an explanation of how the US got this before Al Jazeera.

[Generator]

39. Research the SITE institute and Rita Katz

She's the inside gal. Very well connected, it seems.

[slampoet]

82. Wow. Good point.

[JDPriestly]

27. The language has not been nearly flowery enough in the recent videos.

Anyone who reads a lot or studies literature will know this. Bin Laden is a self-styled religious leader. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell couched all their blather in religious vocabulary. Bin Laden would have to do the same just to stay credible and consistent to his followers. These tapes are western. They are not the religious jargon of Muslims. The point of view is rational western. I also am not sold.

[Spazito]

50. I compared the transcript from the video of bin Laden shortly after

9/11 to the most recent transcript and there is NO similarity in the pattern of speech, etc. bin Laden used a form of parables often in the first transcript, exactly the kind of "flowery religious language" you describe. There is none of that in the recent transcript. The difference is glaring, imo.

[JDPriestly]

66. Parables. That is exactly one element that is missing.

Also, Muslims tend to talk a lot about the attributes of God. They seem to have a long list that they recite. One lovely lady even gave me a copy of the list one time. I think our conversation ended when I asked her why something similar to Prince of Peace was not on there. Anyway, the flowery religious language is a natural part of their speech. And it is missing in the translations that I have seen of the tapes. I believe it is an essential part of their culture and language, especially when it comes to rhetoric.

I questioned whether that style is missing because the audience is intended to be Western. But I dismissed that idea because I think the tapes are also intended for Muslim audiences. Therefore, that style, that flowery language should be there.

[eridani]

62. Exactly, but probably Arabic speaking Muslims wouldn't use that adjective

Imagine the reverse situation--Al Quaeda trying to produce a fake MLK, Jr. tape.

The following is from Martin Luther King's "I see the Promised Land"

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

How might an Arab Muslim unfamiliar with the significance and historical resonance of the term "promised land" in the American civil rights movement try to imitate this? I'd venture something like the following.

I don't know what will happen now. Historically, America has been a land long on ideals and short on practice. But I'm not concerned about that now. I'm optimistic tonight that we will actually make real progress along the road to realizing this country's best ideals, regardless of what happens to me personally. For that reason, I am not afraid.

That's the kind of thing that Arabic speakers noticed about the "bin Laden" tape.

[Norrin Radd]

29. k+r

[Mr. Ected]

40. After the Beating CBS and Dan Rather Took in 2004

I truly wish a contingent of progressive Americans SICK AND TIRED of these lies and propaganda would shove this right back up the Administration's ass.

Alas, the media is complicit. So we'll all be laughed off as some kind of tinfoil morans.

[madmom]

42. looks like KKKarl will have to get someone other than a high school

harry to make his next video!

[autorank]

43. This post is exquisite! K*R

I've been looking for something like this. It should be nominated for BuzzFlash by all of us.

Thanks to our detail oriented and thorough Eridani. Explosive!

[autorank]

45. BuzzFlash.net users - go hear and buzz eridani's story

Here: http://tinyurl.com/3aw22t

[bleever]

58. Buzzed it.

I didn't even know Buzzflash was doing that. Thanks.

[autorank]

70. Cool isn't it. The stories rarely make it over, I think.

BuzzFlash says it's not just votes, there are 'karma elements'...that are too complicated
to explain:rofl:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

46. see our government is copying George Orwell

Emmanual Goldstein revisited

[Whoa_Nelly]

47. OBL photo from the FBI Most Wanted list circa 1998

Look familiar? (in terms of the OBL in the most recent POS video)



http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm



And here from the crappy video that Americans are supposed to believe so we can attack Iran...
(aka "From the Terra Terra Terra Cheney Bunker and PNAC Dungeon)

[eridani]

64. Seems to be a lot of consensus on this and other threads--

--that the visuals are all circa early 90s.

[Hyper_Eye]

68. The things he has taken part in always astound me...

when I see that first picture. He truly looks like a kind and happy person. Of course we know the truth. This is a perfect example of how deceiving looks can be. Bush is another example (some of the time.)

[scarface2004]

51. what if bin laden is the wizard of oz!

maybe he never existed to begin with...but rather is a creation of the corporate warmongers setup to create fear and retaliation for nonexistent attacks so halliburton can up the price of its stock..remember brit hume said it presented a buying opportunity!!

[bleever]

57. Has anyone pointed out that the still shot at the end is the same as

the still shot before he comes back "live" in the middle?

You can move the cursor back and forth between the still portions and see that it's the same shot.

[killbotfactory]

59. It's a special 2007 Bin Laden REMIX

I bet lil' jon is behind it.

[Bitwit1234]

65. The two tapes have two different people.

HuffPost have the two pictures side by side. The new bin laden with the black beard has a smaller nose bridge. In fact the whole shape of the nose is different. And of course a person's hair can grow but did you ever see anyone have a different side hair line. And look at the difference in the se of the eyes. I don't know about you all but I will bet anything they are two different persons. Check the pictures out.

[EnricoFermi]

67. Let's stop worrying about the authenticity

First of all, I agree that the tape is fake. Now, I think the clear reasons for it being fake (skipping around, audio differences, frozen frames, etc) are the greatest indicator that this isn't a fabrication of the US or Israeli governments. They are better than that, come on. I would have done a better job and you can bet that they'd enlist Hollywood levels of effects, not this amateurish crap.

It is probably an indicator that he is either dead or visibly incapacitated. I would vote dead, but it doesn't matter anyway. This is a tape from al Qaeda delivering their message, one independent of their figurehead, even though they invoke him. It is an informational taunt, yet without direct threats. It seems we are getting another message soon, as also indicated by this website. It will probably have threats, OR WORSE, confirmation that it was them who carried out the next attack.

I would seriously start thinking about a terrorist attack, now rather than later, and all indications are that it is nuclear or biological, and bigger than anything we have seen by orders of magnitude. It is probably coming soon and you can bet that our administration will feed off of it, for our own benefit of course ;) Let's stop worrying about who made the tape and understand that it doesn't matter. Our government has been preparing for an attack, so they think or know one is coming soon, in the less than specific way that they did on 9/11. They are done laying down the structure for an invasion of Iran and martial law in the United States. This is how they have prepared themselves. We are their sheep.

What we need to focus on is preventing the same 9/11 -> Iraq -> Iran -> WW3 path that we are headed down while further losing all civil liberties in the process. The most despicable thing about our government is that they take these things, prepare their agenda, and use them to get what they want, all while believing that it is the right and best thing for all of us. I am of the opinion that they either let them happen, or just concede that they can't prevent these large scale attacks, so they might as well use them to their advantage.

Let us prepare by getting ready for the assault on our civil liberties. When an attack does happen, stand up to this group of thugs we call our U.S. government, by being stronger rather than backing down like before. We are not going to be naive again, not going to be blindly patriotic, not going to lose more lives for their sick agenda, because we are afraid or angry. Let's stop being primitive animals and stop getting pushed around. Like many others, I don't fear a terrorist attack at all.

I fear losing my freedom.

Let us stay focused and ready, rather than distracted and naive.

[eridani]

69. I think it matters

The reality of the wingnuts who will be staffing the concentration camps for people like you and me is constructed by such fabrications. We have as much to fear from some of our fellow citizens as from our government.

[EnricoFermi]

71. The video matters, but who it came from does not

What matters most, is that we don't follow down the same path.

We cannot focus on minor details like this. We need to look at the bigger picture.

Even worrying about 9/11 conspiracies is pointless. We need to worry about future events and getting back the rights that we have lost. We are on a path to lose more and more, and yes, maybe even concentration camps for us disorderly types.

We are going to get attacked at some point, and if we aren't ready, the net effect is that we will be far less free than before. Like in 2001, friends of mine will sign up for the military, to fight them, whoever they are, when they should be lining up to fight our own government, for the rights we are losing. People will cry and we will all "band together" in unity to then take revenge, as if we are on some football team getting ready for the super bowl.

We need to stop being gullible, stop being the patriots they want us to be, and instead the patriots we were made to be.

[eridani]

74. Yes, but how do we convince people like your friends who signed up?

I'd think that serious evidence that the government is fucking with their heads might help.

[EnricoFermi]

77. I agree

even though i disagree that this was produced by the government.

It doesn't matter though, because they are willing to go along with it, which is as bad as making it themselves.

Whatever it takes to prevent this infectious form of patriotism from taking shape again.

[slampoet]

73. For Everyone who Flamed me TWO YEARS AGO for suggesting Voice morphing. Please apologize

(Sounds of crickets as cowards say nothing)



I guess no one wanted to actually listen to someone who actually knew how to do electronic sound.

[eridani]

79. I didn't flame you--I looked up everything I could find about voice morphing

And I really wish there were some way that serious audio experts could use on YouTube level reproductions. If there is, please post here and go for it.

[slampoet]

83. I didn't say that you flamed me. In fact you included some of the best sources on this Voice morph.

Thanks. These are great sights.


voice morphing references--

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1561
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/introduction.html
http://www.ircam.fr/288.html?&L=1&tx_ircam_pi2
http://www.public-action.com/911/voice-simulation



These are all good.

For those that don't know how Voice morphing works, here is how.


The subject reads a pre-prepared text at an even voice. The text contains all the major and minor phonics for that language. For english this is easy. there are only about 50-70 phonic sounds for most of the European languages. For others I am told it is more difficult.

From the preprepared text the individual phonics are then reassembled into different sequences to form different words in that language that sounds as if they are being spoken by the person.

Also a small speaker can be put into the mouth and throat and a test tone can be played and recorded to make an Impulse Response of the throat area. This allows a computer to be able to make a working acoustic model of the person's throat and thus be able to make the spliced up phonics sound like they are indeed resonating from the person's throat.

Some of the results from home computers are actually quite shocking in how close they are.

[eridani]

84. I very much appreciate the geeky expertise that DU supplies in such huge amounts

Is there any way of uncovering voice morphing using those same home computer programs? I know squat about technical audio, and would really like it if someone could clearly demonstrate the presence of voice morphing in YouTube reproductions. Or do you have to have an original?

[slampoet]

91. I have the vid you sent the link for. Haven't seen if that has some quality or not.

I will look into it but it will take me more than 24 hrs.


Ideally I would hope that i could find an over familiar phrase that was said by both the suspect video and one that is a certified video of OBL.

Possibly if i can find something like both of them saying "Salam milakim" or something. The Hello greeting is something that is said in a consistent way by nearly everyone nearly every time.

Comparing spectrograms of that could yield results if the signal to noise ratio is decent.


I'll try but i could tell you many more ways of obscuring this than finding it out.

[eridani]

92. Please post your findings to the research section--

--and/or to this thread if it isn't archived yet.

[slampoet]

93. Cool, I'll try. But I can't post subjects.

Sorry 'bout being too poor to donate.

[eridani]

101. Yes, you can post subjects--anybody can after a minimum number less than 50

It's just the DU special interest groups that non-donors don't have access to.

[meowomon]

85. Another fake video

released by our fake president.

[obiwan]

86. When I first saw this video, I immediately knew it was fake.

The "actor" in the video appears to be the same one in the debunked "Osama" video where he is in the safehouse and declares to his compatriots there that he was responsible for 9/11. Compare the face in the most recent video with any photo of OBL that is known to be authentic. Then compare to the video referenced above. It is the same person as the one in the safehouse video. IMHO this video was shot at the same time as the safehouse video (circa 2001), and audio "morphing" has supplied the authentic sounding "voice" of OBL. And all this just before the Petraeus report. Give me a break!

[L0oniX]

89. Hmmm I remember the photo showing a 50% grey beard

Gotta love that "Just for Men" formula or maybe it was the "Grecian Formula 44".

[yurbud]

94. sometimes I think the Bushies make these obvious fakes just to fuck with us and...

show they are untouchable.

Next they'll show clips of Nicholas Cage from MOONSTRUCK or a Mexican guy in a Santa suit and claim it's Osama.

[malaise]

95. Sometimes?

I'm way past sometimes. I'm convinced they're laughing and jerking off at their success with this Bushit.

[yurbud]

97. PIC: there within inches of Eminem's "Mosh" where the background falls down and...

see Rummy and Cheney having coffee:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VOLMVQa0KD8

[malaise]

99. Thanks for that n/t

[JackRiddler]

100. This is what I think, too -

Who made this fake may not be important. What we know is this: A spook-infested mystery institute "finds" it, the regime calls it real, it's adopted as a talking point in the latest 9/11 and Iraq propaganda.

All psy-ops are experiments. By being fake in the most amateur way, the video serves to measure the extent to which the corporate media will grovel and crawl in obedience. As usual, they pass. It also tests the public's apathy. As usual, we pass.

We also get to see how dumb the left can be. An article on counterpunch.org deals with the sophistication and underlying truth of Osama's message critiquing capitalism and imperialism, without the slightest hint of irony or awareness that this could be a fake.

[Stinky The Clown]

96. You know .... its also possible that the tape, if fake, was made by the bad guys ........

.... which would be either our bad guys ......


.... or the other bad guys.

[yurbud]

98. PIC: zarqawi looks suspiciously like this guy:

http://www.nndb.com/people/535/000024463/