Has the DU community become too politically correct?

[11 Bravo]

I suppose just asking the question reveals my thoughts on the matter, but over the last five years I have come to respect and appreciate the passion, intellect, and honesty of my fellow DUers, so I seek feedback.
During the past several days I have seen posters who question the need for copious posts about the same event reviled as autocratic, insensitive, sexist, boors. Now I am seeing threads dedicated to the proposition that certain subjects are sacrosanct, and must never be spoken of lightly. As a personal aside, and to let people know where I'm coming from, I am a cancer survivor (9 years this July). Anyone who wishes to hear jokes, comments, or other examples of so-called "black humor" that might lead a "normal" individual to run screaming from the room, needs to be a fly on the wall at their local chemo or radiation oncology unit.
I'm not saying that everything should be grist for the humor mill, and I think our mods do an incredible job of drawing the line. But everyone who doesn't share your pain or your sense of humor is not automatically an asshole.

[uppityperson]

1. Are you refering to my rape/violence isn't funny topic?

Perhaps if we knew each other better, had a black humor relationship, but telling me "perhaps you ought to have your ass kicked" in that context is wrong though.

And yes, I do understand black humor as have worked for yrs in situations and jobs that need it to survive. Laughter does not nccessarily mean that someone thinks something is funny. It can be feeling ashamed or embarrased laughter, feeling uneasy laughter, ironic laughter, laughing because otherwise you would cry laughter. All sorts of reason to laugh. Our CPR instructor coming into ER dead of a heart attack? We laugh at the irony and cry with sadness.

[11 Bravo]

11. Not referencing your thread specifically ...

but it was a part of what I was pointing to. As for the "ass kicked" comment, you're right, we don't know each other well, and perhaps I took liberties to which I'm not entitled, but I thought you had already acknowledged that it was intended as a joke. There was no intent to offend.

[uppityperson]

15. Part of the problem I think is the difference between thought and action.

How do they inter-relate and not also. I can think something, but am not supposed to say it. I think something and am not supposed to think it. How does one monitor another's thoughts?

We had an uproar in our small town a couple yrs ago because a city council person (male) referred to a female as a "hairy legged broad". Knowing the people involved, yes, it was rude but meant in a humorous way (male was married proudly to a proudly hairy legged broad) and the one referenced fitted in the category also. So, uproar uproar uproar. How could he! How dare he! He has no right to say this! He has no right to think this! That was the point I took offense.

How do we get people to treat each other humanely, as people. No matter what their (pick a characteristics)? Language can and does hurt. Thought police are wrong because we have the freedom to think as we wish. This is a reason for having laws, to make sure we cannot always act on those thoughts.

Sorry, getting freethoughtish random.

Yes, pc can go too far. But it does bring up issues to talk about, and, while conversing perhaps a few will get to actually share ideas, think about things rather than just react. For that bit, I think it worth it.

Peace to you and thanks.

[havocmom]

2. Honored to give you the first R

And, yes, I understand where you are coming from.

Congrats on upcoming 9 year mark too! :woohoo: My sister told tales of the oncology unit and how blunt and funny things get in there. Guess when ya sit on a ledge overlooking a huge abyss, pretense falls away and it can be a very constructively liberating thing. ;)

[Atman]

3. Humor, even black humor, keeps humans sane

Otherwise we'd turn into a bunch of Fundie-like goose-stepping automatons. Many people on DU take the "no one should ever be offended for any reason" shit waaaaay to seriously.

.

[Swamp Rat]

4. Hats off to you!

cancer survivor for 9 years! :applause:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. A little bit OT but I'm sick of the phrase "politically correct"

It's an overused cliche, and often a cudgel to shut people up and confer immunity to bigoted assholes. Basically, you can say pretty much anything you want about anyone as long as you preface it with: "I know it's not PC but..." You get to denigrate and stereotype as usual while inoculating yourself from criticism.

[Atman]

6. I find it terribly offensive.

And there is nothing "correct" about it.

.

[smoogatz]

18. Is there an irony emoticon?

I hate that little eye-rolling thingy.

[Gabi Hayes]

10. exactly. Terry Jeffrey used it exactly in this manner on Hardball yesterday.

that said, I linked this on a thread about wind turbines, then pulled it.

guess why

[Phredicles]

24. Enthusiastically agreed; it's basically an intellectually lazy way

to excuse that which is otherwise indefensible.

[ThomCat]

157. I agree.

Complaining about political correctness is a way of saying "I should be able to insult and stereotype people, and I think it's wrong that people think that's wrong."

[11 Bravo]

158. Yup.

Every fucking time, that's all it means. Hell, I've only trolled here for 5 years in order to continue to insult and stereotype people.

[ThomCat]

159. Well, let's give you the benefit of the doubt.

Not every single post for all 5 years. Just the posts where you start by complaining about PC.

[MADem]

7. You'll always have "pet issue" people. It's just the way it is.

It doesn't mean you have to bow to them or listen to them. It's preferable, I think, not to be rude if you can manage it, though some people are just so shitty, snarky, baiting and insulting (all while claiming progressive credentials, ironically) that it is a challenge NOT to get down in the gutter.

And you'll always have people who lack an IRONY meter, or whose 'high dudgeon' switch is always on. And then, there's the hyper-offended--no matter what the topic, anything deviating from their worldview is an outrage, and must be checked with highly emotional language. And then, there's the "I feel this way because I feel this way, I have no facts to back my shit up, and let me personally insult you and tell you what YOU think--in reality, what I think you think" types! They usually start out telling you "Well, YOU think that all...." or "People like you ALWAYS...." or "You MUST be...." The old "assumptions" tactic--it's the mark of a desperate argument.

Take away the specifics, and those arguments are the kind of shit you expect from the other team. See, there ARE idiots everywhere, and not much you can do about them.

When all else fails, the "Oh well, your mileage obviously varies" farewell is often the best way to deal with it. If they stalk you, use that "Get lost" button.

I always thought we were the big tent, with a wide divergence of viewpoints. I don't go for that lockstep stuff. What distinguishes us, as a party, at least to my mind, is the willingness to listen respectfully and to keep an open mind.

That said, I'm a FAN of thread consolidation. I do get tired of people who start a new thread just to "pee on the tree" (start off with a fresh sheet of 'paper' and be FIRST to soil it, as it were). Why is it so hard to put your commentary in an existing thread, the easier to follow the discussion?

At any rate, that's not the crime of the century, just a minor annoyance.

[treestar]

71. Bravo! Great Post

I debate right wingers all the time, and have to say, I have received far nastier responses on DU than from *#($@( right wingers!

One guy I debate states categorically that I am a traitor for opposing *'s war. But he's never been outright nasty about it. But I tried to bring up some issues about calling Senator Obama articulate and got a dozen really nasty posts. I've never encountered such from the most right wing freeper (and one always accused me of being at that time of the month if I said anything he disagreed with).

[Guaranteed]

174. Very nice post.

I can tell you've done some thinking on the subject. ;)

I agree with many of your classifications and acknowledge that they are not an extensive list. Most of these issues are social, not intellectual. But I also acknowledge that individual people can be different from day to day. I have my own ups and downs.

[matcom]

8. There is NOTHING funny about homophobic Frosted Mini-Wheats!

DAMMIT!

:grr:

[Buzz Clik]

9. This quote of yours says it all for me:

But everyone who doesn't share your pain or your sense of humor is not automatically an asshole.

Succinct, to the point.

I do NOT have to share everyone's outrage about sexist comments, apparent homophobia in the NFL, anti-atheism, anit-Christian attitudes, etc etc ad infinitum. Yes, I support activism in all these areas, but I bristle when swept in with the "anti-sensitive" crowd simply because I refuse to join a boycott or don't sob myself to sleep over a perceived injustice.

[Pithlet]

124. Speaking for myself, it doesn't bother me when people aren't outraged.

It's the people who tell others they shouldn't be that get to me. For instance, it wasn't the people who weren't offended by the Snickers commercials or found them funny, but the people who insulted and denigrated the people who were offended, and told them they needed to lighten up, or they were hurting their cause. I find that is what fuels the flame wars more than simply people being too easily offended.

[RandomKoolzip]

12. How about this:

Why don't we make a pact, all of us: If a DUer feels that some other DUers are being "overly sensitive" about certain politically charged topics, even if *I* don't share their opinion or their sense of offense, I will agree to let it lie and not prod said "overly sensitive" DUer about it, since I'll probably need that "overly sensitive" DUer to help me out in other situations, back me up in other arguments, or just to be a friend.

[BlooInBloo]

13. Only to white folks.

[Karenina]

14. Behave!!! O mama gonna beat yo hindpots!!

:spank::spank::spank:

[BlooInBloo]

62. Yikes!

[Buzz Clik]

20. Really? Only white people?

That's an amazing declaration. What exactly qualifies you to speak for all non-white people at DU?

[BlooInBloo]

29. I asked every single one of them.

[BlooInBloo]

30. and have signed affadavits.

[BlooInBloo]

31. notarized.

[BlooInBloo]

33. by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

[BlooInBloo]

34. co-signed by God.

[Evoman]

173. Its true..I'm not white and I signed his affidavit...actually, I signed three, just to be sure.

[Buzz Clik]

39. Ah. Well, okay. That certainly would do it.

:toast:

[Bluebear]

16. "Too PC" usually means a rightwinger complaining that they can't say what they want

Politically correct to me always meant POLITEically correct. If somebody finds themselves saying "I know this isn't PC but...", I would caution that 9 times out of 10 they would be better of shutting up because they are about to say something boorish and insensitive.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. Thank you!

See my post about the same thing above. Also, you're not a big brave rebel just because you don the "anti-PC" cloak. You're still the same stupid asshole. I'm looking at you, Glenn Beck.

[Gabi Hayes]

19. yep....and jagoffs like Beck are always the ones who scream the LOUDest

when it's one of their own sacred cows being offered up for barbecue

the fatter the prick, the thinner the skin

[Buzz Clik]

21. "POLITEically" correct is NOT what was meant in the OP.

Many poster at DU have their heads handed to them by some super-sensitive zealot who feels slighted that the reactions to a given offense are great enough or universal. The gazillions of Snickers/Super Bowl commercial thread were testament to that.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Nice. What a wonderful way to bring someone over to your side.

And you wonder why we *cough* progressives don't see things your way.

[bettyellen]

44. there is not "wonderful" and "light" way to demand respect, okay? withold support for

from something you actually supported, instead of threatening people for asking for what they actually deserve.

[Buzz Clik]

165. The difference between tolerance and intolerance is not subtle.

Likewise, the difference between seeking support for a cause and bullying those on the fence is not subtle.

If you want respect, earn it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. why should we have to try to get you on our side. is bigotry an accepted liberal value now?

[Buzz Clik]

166. I've made it perfectly clear that I support these issues.

It's not a matter of support; I draw the line, however, at having to tolerate DUers who get in my grill because I refuse to join their outrage over something I find to be low on the outrage meter. I choose my battles and won't join the fight over every gd minor offense.

It is astonishing how many who post here cannot accept the fact the other DUers can be supportive without mirroring their emotions.

[Bluebear]

55. So you need to be coaxed to "our" side on issues? And you're "progressive"?

Cough indeed.

[Buzz Clik]

167. What nonsense.

Read my posts.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[k_jerome]

108. i'm sorry, what does "bring someone over to your side" mean? nt.

[Buzz Clik]

168. "... bring us over to your side" as in convince us to become active.

We all have a finite amount of time and energy to spend on causes. We prioritize what's important, and we fight our battles accordingly.

If I find the reaction to the Snickers commercial to be extreme, I have the right to say so. And when I do, I do not have to accept some over-hyped asshole telling me that I'm not a "progressive" simply because I don't shit my pants over every perceive act of homophobia. If you want to convince me to "come over to your side" and become active, don't question my credibilty; it's the same bullshit as the fucking knuckledraggers telling me I'm a traitor because I criticize the Chimperor.

Clear enough?

[k_jerome]

170. no, not clear yet...

are you referring to the side of civil rights? are you not on this side already? why do people need to be convinced to "come over"?

[11 Bravo]

27. Thanks for making my point for me.

I'm sorry I lack your brilliance and your certitude. It must be nice to rest assured that anyone who doesn't subscribe to your point of view is a "clueless asshole".

[Tin Man]

36. Maybe he/she was just being sarcastic?

Anyone wanna make a wager?
I'm betting the comment was made in earnest.

[jonnyblitz]

96. I am SERIOUS as a fucking heart attack !!

if the jerk is going to be an asshole in his post he DESERVES responses in kind!! it works both ways!

[bettyellen]

46. you see no middle ground between saying STFU / get over it and agreement? this martyr bullshit

"oh i'm being persecuted for not agreeing" is disingenuous bullshit.

[11 Bravo]

52. Are you a graduate of the Hannity school of debate?

You flit from post to post erecting strawmen as you go. "Oh I'm being persecuted" is martyr bullshit? Possibly, but no one on this thread said that. You were told that "Global warming is a greater threat than misygony or gay rights"? Not on this thread, you weren't. And in an otherwise incomprehensible post (#44) you referenced some vague "threats". Of course, nowhere on this thread have you been threatened. But by all means, don't let any of that curb an over-active imagination. I eagerly await your next flight of fancy.

[bettyellen]

57. your willfully obtuse bullshit doesn't answer my question. you see no middle ground?

again and again, people who were rude and dismissive to others and called on it are claiming they were asked to agree 100% with others.
Nope, they were asked to show some respect or contribute something more complicated than the sophmoric "Get over it".

and the poster i responded to threatened quite clearly to withold support to minority causes - because they minority wasn't pleasing them with their uppity bullshit. i'm sure you didn;t notice THAT behaviour all over DU this past week either. No doubt it flies right over your head.

[11 Bravo]

73. Read the OP. I explicitly acknowledge the existence of a "middle ground".

And again, your use of loaded appellations such as "sophomoric" and "uppity", which have nowhere on this thread been leveled against you, would make Hannity proud. I'm not sure if your issue is with me or with another poster. In any case, I asked an honest question and sought honest responses from people whose opinions I've come to respect. I had hoped (fruitlessly, it appears) that this would not degenerate into the type of flamefest in which you so desperately wish to engage. And yup, everything else has flown right over my head. I'm just a dumb-ass ol' ex-grunt trying to hang in there with my intellectual betters.

[bettyellen]

85. but but but..."anyone who doesn't subscribe to your point of view is a "clueless asshole".'

i see a deep chasm with no middle ground in sight. :shrug:
whatcha gonna do now, jump in your car and drive back to bigotsville because i have alienated you?
LOL!

[11 Bravo]

118. You're quite the piece of work, aren't you?

Yet another non-response to specific points of contention. Of course you realize that I didn't say, "Anyone who doesn't subscribe to my point of view is a clueless asshole." I was repeating the words from post #25, an individual who, coincidentally, is on your side of this discussion. But never mind, facts and/or intellectual honestly are clearly not your strong suit. But thanks for getting right to it and calling me a bigot. It would probably be too much to ask to request you to link to a single bigoted utterance on my part anywhere on this thread. Gay rights, which you proudly and admirably support (but which the OP had absolutely nothing to do with) have long been a passion of mine for reasons which are none of your fucking business. My posts in that regard are a matter of record, but you find it easier to accuse a man of whom you know nothing of intolerance and bigotry. In wingnuts, I find that contemptible. In progressives, I find it sad.
P.S. At the top of the page you will find a POST icon. You can use that to initiate your own thread. Unless, of course, you're too damned lazy and would just prefer to hijack another thread, railing against an injustice with which that thread had nothing to do.

[bettyellen]

121. you responded to Blitz re people who tell him to STFU as if he shld respect them- why?

"we just don't need to be told to shut the fuck up and get over it"


you were incorrectly paraphrasing Blitz's post as if he was talking about people "not agreeing" with him. STFU is a whole other thing. But that sailed over your head I guess. Okay to mischaracterize his post I guess because all the gay people wanted was 100% agreement, sure, that's it!

[jonnyblitz]

99. the asshole i responded who called us oversensitive

zealots, those of us who are concerned about homophobia, and you expect us "zealots" to just sit back? PLEASE! :puke:

i most certainly did NOT prove your stupid right wing POINT.

PC shouldn't even be in a progressive's vocabulary, it is a CONSERVATIVE term!

[bettyellen]

140. he said people who tell him to STFU!!! Not those that "DON"T AGREE 100% "- THAT is why i said

there is a HUGE middle ground that many here- and you are just the latest - totally forgets exist.
You just acted like he was an uppity gay acting for 100% approval. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

I don't give a shit what great things you claim to have done for gays, you need an attitude check. You're reaction speaks volumes.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Jonny, I love you.

[jonnyblitz]

102. the homophobes certainly don't!

:hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

119. Yes, they aren't a fan of our blatant homo talk.

:rofl:

:hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. you mean the gazillion threads that told GLBT DU'ers to shut up and sit down?

yeah that did testify to something all right. bigotry. homophobia. and general insensitivity

[bettyellen]

63. but you didnt ask in a fun wonderful way that makes the sophmoric jokester feel good about himself!

because if you did "little lady" these guys would love to help out you and yer gay friend there.
especially you, since you're such a hottie.
but you have to ask nicely, and not when the games on.

[Porcupine]

37. Funny, I thought I was just a white male liberal......

who thinks that endless cries of victimhood aren't getting any work done. I have seen numerous accusations of: sexism, racism, homophobia, class-warfare, animal-hatred, christian-hating, environmental fascism and god knows what else slapped on people.

In most cases the person accused is actually making a legitimate effort to understand issues involved. Usually going out of their way to NOT insult the victim-O'-the-day class. Actual stupidity is dealt with rather quickly by the mods.

Get a clue people. If somebody thinks that you might not need to be handled with kid gloves maybe they think you belong out here with the grownups. In the real world there are real diseases, wars, bombs, tornadoes and hurricanes to remind us that mere survival is enough of a challenge thank you. If I'm fighting to help you survive could you give me a break on some of the rest of this crap?

BTW- If we don't start helping the Democratic congress grow a spine all our arguements are moot. They demonstrate the ability to exercise power or the american people will turn elsewhere for assistance. I for one would like to see a functional government for once in my life.

[Bluebear]

40. "endless cries of victimhood" - -another tres sensitive concept

"If somebody thinks that you might not need to be handled with kid gloves".."be out here with the grownups"

...ah, kid gloves. Not basic respect, but now "special handling". Along with exhortations to get a clue, grow up, lighten up. I just wonder why people feel they have to go to such lengths to instruct the person offended, rather than just moving along? Why is somebody who is offended always the guilty party in some people's books?

[jonnyblitz]

111. this thread is just replete with every right wing catch phrase

in the book! i feel like i am on a rush limbaugh discussion board! :crazy:

[bettyellen]

45. oh see, i was told global warming was a bigger concern for me than misogyny or human rights for gay

people.
thanks for straightening me out there dude.
i don't know what i was thinking! i guess, since you can't, my purty little head coulndn't possibly hold two concerns at once!

[Porcupine]

48. You don't have a right to an audience

Here in DU we're a dinky little minority that manages to tear ourselves away from Secondlife and Youtube. That means we all have to careful about crying wolf.

The rest of the world really isn't listening. Case in point: last months peace demonstrations. So practicing manners on people who might be on your side would be a nice start.

[bettyellen]

49. asking for respect is ill mannered, huh? crying wolf is it? so your concerns are paramount...

and women and gays ride in the back in silence while you crack jokes about them. Got it.
Whatever is seconlife and is that the thing that keeps you too busy to be a multi issue person? well good for you, buddy!

[Porcupine]

77. Let me be really clear.....

If it's your body it's your problem.

I believe that you should be entitled to basic rights of food, housing, education and medical care including mental health care. Without exception.

I believe in the Constitution. I believe the law should be the same for all people regardless or race, sex, age, gender, religion, etc. etc. Marry whoever you want; no skin off my back.

I don't believe you have a right to be exempt from insult because that infringes on the free speech of others.

People make fun of me all the time. I'm a divorced, fat, straight, white, bald guy. I even used to have a ponytail; it looked awful. I hang out with my mother because she lives nearby and she's good company.

Feel free, insult me. It's a freebie on DU. Go see if you're more beautiful when you're done. That mirror will do you good.

If somebody insults your class of folk, tough shit. It probably made them look that much smaller. Bear it with pride. That's what I have to do.

:rant:

[bettyellen]

82. see your self created problems do mean little to me, i'm sort of more about society's ills....

that's why i don;t watse time on myspace, etc.... but thanks for making yourself the loser/ victim here, i knew you wouldn't disappoint.

[Porcupine]

139. Environment, health care, housing, war? Self-created?

I didn't ask for anything for MY problems. I want some help with everybody's problems.

Learn to read.

Oh, the "check spelling" button is fun to hit before the post button. I get a little dyslexic too and it keeps things on track.

[Pithlet]

145. It infringes on the free speech of others?

How, exactly, does it do that? The answer is it doesn't. Not any more than telling others to shut up and stop complaining about being offended. You believe people don't have the right to be exempt from insult? Fine, go to a board that doesn't have civility rules. There are plenty of them out there. I believe no one has a right to insult others without getting called on it, and since this is a message board that has rules for civility, people who want absolute freedom from criticism of their assholishness are pretty much screwed here.

Thing is, it goes both ways. People can be jerks, and people can call the jerks on their bad behavior. You're perfectly free to start your own blog or message board to institute your own rules and say whatever you want, and block people from expressing how they feel about it, so the constitutional right to free speech simply doesn't apply here.

[Porcupine]

155. I have no objection to manners. Manners are good.

and here on the board I would like to see more of them.

There is a difference between insulting a group i.e. "the X-men suits look weird" and insulting a specific person, "you are an idiot." (common)

On DU there are many people who generally agree with most progressive goals who are being insulted because they don't agree with the goals of some groups.

Who gets insulted and where those insults are deleted has a lot to do with "PC" perceptions. Everybody gets to insult some groups, the GOP, white guys, straight men in general. Other group and it's STFU or deleted even if the insult is clearly unintended.

When we spend so much time insulting people who are generally progressive it's not a wonder that we fail to use the power we DO have. It would be nice if everyone took a little more care and manners around here. It would be new.

[Pithlet]

162. Personal attacks are against the rules.

If you see one, alert on it. You're an idiot isn't allowed on DU.

"They don't agree with the goals of some groups" That's a nice way to sugar coat it. The people who are being insulted aren't being insulted merely because they disagree. Most of the people, especially lately, who've been getting the most flack are the "get over it" crowd. And they are rightfully getting their asses handed to them. I disagree with people all the time on DU, and have been doing so for over 5 years. And I've never been called a bigot, or a racist, or a homophobe. I somehow manage to avoid that. It really isn't that hard. I don't doubt that the people being "insulted" have some progressive ideals, but that doesn't mean they don't have some racist, bigoted or homophobic ideals. It doesn't mean they don't lack sensitivity, or just plain common sense. Good manners are all well and good, but it doesn't mean anyone has to shut up and take it quietly.

Good manners do not require one to ignore racism, sexism, homophobia or anti-semitism. Sure, there are posters who come right out and directly accuse bigotry, but those posts are almost always deleted. It isn't good manners to tell people to shut up, which is all the whining about PC really is. Shut up and take it. The majority doesn't agree with you. Know your place as a minority, and leave the judgment about what is and isn't acceptable to the majority. Really, it has been sickening, and if civility rules weren't in place on DU, the "insults" would be far worse, I think. And they'd deserve it.

And as far as your contention that everyone gets to make fun of some groups on DU? I don't believe it. I've seen plenty of threads locked for male bashing, racism against white people, the works.

[treestar]

69. I imagine it is

Since if there is no planet, there is no issue of gay rights or women's rights or anything else.

Some things are more important than others. It does not diminish the importance totally of the lesser concern, but it's still a lesser concern.

[bettyellen]

72. lesser to them, and you shld respect that. to people who do not have them, equal rights are urgent.

[k_jerome]

101. you keep using that word...

i don't think it means what you think it means.

[girl gone mad]

161. Legitimate effort?

Yesterday, you accused me of laziness for previously working at a strip club, even though you don't have the first clue about my circumstances. In your version of the real world, attractive young women can just flash their boobs and make more money in "4 hours" than a blue collar guy can in a whole week and spending 9 hours on a stage in 4 inch stilettos and another hour a day in the gym to keep your body in top shape isn't as hard as stapling shingles to a roof.

In your real world, anyone who knows how to use a computer can get a good job and doesn't have to resort to cocktail waitressing at a strip joint. Never mind that this person might be a single mother, working her way through college as a full-time student, in the only job that allows her to pick her own hours. Never mind that this person might be an underage girl who just escaped an abusive home, fully supporting herself by working the only legitimate job in town that doesn't require her to show an ID and S.S. card.

Forgive me if I don't choose to take advice from you about the real world.

[treestar]

68. IA with right wingers, that is indeed what they whine about

But for liberals, it is too much to start on them as "racist, sexist," etc. for one little foible.

I mean would you rather have Joe Biden in the WH or Chimpy, who never happened to make that mistake?

It's just a lack of perspective.

[meow mix]

92. yes. more than usually, id say 100 percent of the time.

including the original post here

[smoogatz]

22. Well, the "douchebag" thing was kind of ridiculous.

I mean, come on. It's one of my favorite words--they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead laptop. On the other hand, I've come to grips, finally, with DU's hanky-dabbing over the untimely deaths of b-list celebrities. Sort of. I kind of like it that we're trying to work out ways of talking about stuff like immigration and race and gender that aren't just about pushing people's buttons--you have to agree on the nomenclature, I think, before you can really get to the substance.

[Tin Man]

126. I thought we had settled the issue... How dare you use that word again !!!

:evilgrin:

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Yes.

[hfojvt]

28. PC is mostly okay with me

"For whatever excesses have occurred under the umbrella of "P.C.," at least the intentions were generally honorable -- mainly, trying to rid society of debilitating bigotry."

http://www.liberaloasis.com/2007/02/conservative_correctness.php

There have always been a few on DU who personally attack the people they are arguing with. Just because some do it under the guise of PC does not mean the group is too PC. There has also always been a few on DU who will point fingers at the rest of DU, saying "DU has jumped the shark". I call it the golden age phenomenon. We all remember a golden age when we first discovered DU and it seemed like it was "liberal heaven", filled with the nicest, smartest, and most dedicated activists. Then the honeymoon ends, and you notice flaws in a formerly perfect lover. Actually the cast does change and various wars come and go as we follow the news cycle. At one time there we something like 20 "Gannon wrinkle threads" which were huge. I search the archives sometimes, looking for old friends or enemies or to repeat some point I made a year or two ago and read other posts and threads too. Sometimes I think "dang, that's some fine writing/thinking" and click on the profile to find them gone. As the group gets larger it may be that there is an ever larger pile of chaff to wade through in order to find the wheat. DU will never be without "posters who _____" fill in the blank with something you do not like or agree with. Do we need a rule change or a purge? I hope not the latter because I suspect that many would vote me off the island, but also because a bigger group means more influence as well.

[Tin Man]

32. Yes.

[Maven]

35. This reminds me of that sketch on TDS about Fox News.

You can say anything if you say it in the form of a question.

[sandnsea]

38. Derogatory humor isn't funny

There is just a difference between laughing with and laughing at. The problem isn't with the ones who don't want to be laughed at.

[uppityperson]

41. Good. Very good. thank you

[MedleyMisty]

42. my 2 cents

Whenever I hear "too PC" there's a voice in my head interpreting it as "Wah, they get upset when I'm an asshole instead of taking it and asking for more. Silly uppity minority groups."

I admit, maybe that's a wrong interpretation.

I am trying to think of something that a group that I'm not a member of finds offensive that I don't and I get offended when a few members of said group say it's offensive.

Thinking....thinking....hmm....Harry Potter? I admit it doesn't make sense to me when fundies get all upset and offended about it, and in fact it does actually offend me that it offends them. Haven't personally told a fundie to shut up because, after all, I'm not offended yet, though.

I don't think that anyone is demanding that you be offended too. Just saying that it's perhaps not too polite to tell people who are that they have no right to be just because you aren't. If you aren't offended by the Snickers ads or things like that, then good for you. But if other people have a different opinion, it's still a valid opinion. Even if it is different from your opinion.

I think it's the whole "Your rights end where mine begin." thing. It's not not being offended that's the problem. It's the insistence that other people shouldn't be offended either.

And maybe you perceived it as people insisting that you should be offended too just because they were. But you get to choose what threads you click on, right? You can even hide threads. So if I hadn't been offended by the Snickers ad and other things and had been offended that others were offended by it, I think I would just have avoided those threads and read the threads that interested me.

[Change has come]

95. Good points sleebarker

Welcome to DU:hi:

[eridani]

43. Political correctness has replaced uptightness about sex--

--and I'm damned glad of it. Human beings tend toward xenophobia, and also toward being horny. We try to regulate both tendencies to varying degrees. I'd rather live in a society where people are ashamed of their tendency to be xenophobic rather than their tendency to be horny.

To be sure, some complaints about offensiveness are as over the top as the Victorians who insisted on talking about piano "limbs", but over the top is just going to happen sometimes.

[girl gone mad]

47. Maybe, but then again..

I perceive the insistence of some to inform DUers that a recently deceased celebrity isn't a worthy enough topic of discussion to be a form of Political Correctness. I also see Political Correctness in the need to compare bad college humor to the satire of Jonathan Swift.

Isn't it a matter of frustration with the inability to control how others think? Many DUers displayed genuine reactions to events during this past week. Other DUers were unhappy about those reactions for one reason or another. Telling people that their feelings are illiberal or that they shouldn't be talking about something, that's Political Correctness in my book.

[rakovsky]

53. No!

Hardly. Otherwise we would not criticize Lynn Cheney.

Besides, being politically correctly, one would never go too far in criticizing mainstream views.

[dapper]

54. Peace be my Brother...

(and sisters)

Congrats on 9 years. My wife made copies of some of our wedding photos and there was this picture of me standing over my mom. It's hard to believe only 8 months went by before cancer took her life. It's always nice to hear the happy endings... err Happy Beginnings :-)

I have to admit, I've been a bit jerky here lately. It just seems there are so many postings about people being offended for one reason or another and I'm reading saying to myself.... not another posting. So my mantra has been "I'm offended".

I don't remember the author but he basically said that someone does not make *you* angry- you control your own feelings, you make yourself angry.

ie. It's not that someone is offending you, you make yourself feel offended.


I guess that also goes along the lines of having two choices in life- Happiness or Sadness. I choose happiness! :-)

Dapper

[Bluebear]

56. "It's not that someone is offending you, you make yourself feel offended."

Holy cannoli.

[bettyellen]

59. I make myself earn 30% less than men in my field! I make myself an easy target

because I don;t bulk up and lift weights- and by being a hottie. Hmmm... what else do I do to bring on my second class status?
oh yeah, i'm soft and friendly to people, and i didn't marry that guy i dated who had a gun collection *smacks head*.

[Bluebear]

61. If somebody calls you an unfortunate name, remember, it's not THEM.

It's YOU who chose to be offended by the name.

This is some kind of alternate reality here sometimes. Or maybe it IS reality and I just thought better of humanity.

[dapper]

60. hmmm

I understand what your saying. However, If someone says "you're ugly" and you are confident that you are not, are you going to let yourself feel offended by what the person says?

You can choose to be offended by the remark (oh my gosh, I must be ugly since this person said so)
or you can choose not to be offended (this person must be nuts since I get many compliments on my looks)


I know, I know, we can knock this around pretty much all day with examples but it is the individual who chooses how they want to react to a certain situation.


Dapper

[Bluebear]

65. How about somebody calls me ugly and I am NOT confident that I'm not?

What if people have been calling me various things for years, maybe starting with my parents,so that my self-confidence level is crap? Grandmother says "you're fat, lose some weight!" Dad says "don't be a pansy, throw like a man", teacher points you out in front of class "look who forgot their book report!" How does that young person grow up "choosing not to be offended"? Some self-help tape?

[treestar]

66. Remember what Eleanor Roosevelt said

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Maybe it is my diet of self-esteem books, but I finally got it, after years of letting other peoples' remarks get me down.

You cannot hand this power to other people. If you do, they will use it.

[bettyellen]

70. it's inspirational, and may work as a one on one situation, but we are talking about combined forces

we are talking about cultural norms that oppress people.
and people who reinforce that status quo pretending than expecting any better constitutes walking on eggshells.
i love how you see again and again the threats to withdraw support for the cause.
gosh, if we are too loud and demanding, we are going to drive them back to bigotsville! if that's such an easy journey for them , you have to wonder.

[treestar]

76. They're still going to be there

There a freepers or freeper like people everywhere.

I would say keep the eye on the prize, legal equal rights, and then be the best and happiest person you can be, so the freepy types feel ashamed of trying to get in your way on a superficial cause.

Freepers need to be converted, let alone MOR people who don't care. They tend to sympathize when they know a person personally (for instance, I have heard rants against illegal aliens, but an exception made for a person the alien-hater knows). Most people are really OK, deep down. Few join the KKK or actually commit hate crimes. They deserve some space for saying something stupid like "you're articulate" or laughing at a commercial.

Nice debating with you. Your cat rocks!

:hi:

[dapper]

78. Thanks!

My Author was not Elenore Roosevelt but thanks for pointing out another person who mentioned something similar. I'll have to track down the self help book, I should know it as I loved the book. Otherwise, I love a good Biography.

Dapper

[dapper]

74. That's the point....

If you read my original message, you will see i wrote:

"I don't remember the author but he basically said that someone does not make *you* angry- you control your own feelings, you make yourself angry."


Like I said, you can argue the point until your blue in the face but it does not change the fact that an individual can choose their own feelings or how they want to react to something.

Dapper

[Bluebear]

87. 'an individual can choose their own feelings'

Not in reality. Your exhortation sounds like good pop psychology, but feelings are rarely chosen.

[bettyellen]

89. you can choose your reaction, and mine is to not give bigotry a free pass.

[dapper]

100. congrats bettyellen...

However, it seems all that pent up anger has made you confused. No where in this message thread have I made any bigoted statement.

I do have to admit after reading all the postings that you are probably hurting your cause more than you are helping it.


Dapper

[Bluebear]

103. 'you are probably hurting your cause more than you are helping it.'

Yes, she should not be crying foul so much, she's just very angry. :eyes:

[dapper]

112. People are very passionate about what they believe in...

I agree. and in no way do I think she should be quiet about those feelings.

When I see someone screaming, yelling, cursing, making accusations..etc...etc, (not to say she had done this) I tend to shut them out. I'm laid back and would rather have a quiet, relaxing discussion. Here's my view, communicate your view with me, maybe we will toss it around, maybe I will see your point of view. If I don't see things your way, atleast I understand your views.

Dapper

[k_jerome]

105. out of curiousity, what cause are you referring to? nt.

[jonnyblitz]

114. whatever cause it is it's obviously not a cause he supports.

that seems apparent.

[dapper]

115. it could be any cause. eom

[k_jerome]

127. your response seems more particular to the person..

responded to. what is their cause? or were you speaking in general terms?

[bettyellen]

131. he lied and said i called him a bigot, but i did not even imply it. LOL .

i said that's how i deal with "feelings/ reaction" Instead of controlling my feelings regarding bigotry... instead of ignoring them- which i think is what he means by not letting them get to you... i choose to speak out.
he took it kinda personally. LOL.

[dapper]

132. The cause...

If it was the message that I said that Betty was hurting her cause more than helping, I was speaking of the Gay aand Lesbian issue. If you are talking about my original post, I was speaking in General Terms.

However, before anyone blows a gasket, you may want to re-read the part where I said she was passionate about the issue.

Dapper

[bettyellen]

136. passionate, but not accusing you of bigoted statements at all.

and neither did i toward that other fellow who posts positive things about gay rights. why, some of his best friends....

[k_jerome]

137. do you support this cause, as you call it? nt.

[dapper]

148. Lifestyle?

Why do I have a feeling that I am walking into something here? I called is a "cause" and by your response, I said the wrong thing, huh? A better term is Lifestyle but I don't want you to be offended if I say the wrong thing. Perhaps it is better that you educate me. (By the way, the term "cause" was not used out of disrespect, it was used in a reference for anyone "fighting for a cause"- which probably doesn't clerify my meaning any better)

Do I support the Gay and Lesbian Lifestyle? (again, if I offend anyone with the word Lifestyle, please correct me)

It depends on what you mean by Support. Have I given money to Gay and Lesbian organizations. No I have not. I don't donate much money but in the past I have donated to DU, Environmental causes, I donated money to a family whose father died suddenly who was part of an organization I belonged to.

Do I support the lifestyle. That's hard to answer because I am not gay or lesbian. I do feel people are free to be who they are. I have friends who are gay/lesbian. I believe in a previous post I mentions tht I have bowled, played sports with and work/worked with people who are gay/lesbian and have treated them with respect. There was one guy who I thought was a jerk (attitude problem).

One does not need to "support" a gay or lesbian lifestyle to respect/admire a gay or lesbian person. You do not need my approval to do anything in your life.

If it means we get along, I can respect and admire someone who is gay or lesbian, that I "accept" your lifestyle (I quoted accept because I don't like the terminology- it's like you need my approval or something) We can live together in harmony :-) Then I have to answer that I "support" the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle.

Dapper

[k_jerome]

156. maybe we are misunderstanding each other...

i meant cause in the way you used it. what is the cause to your understanding, and do you support this cause?

[jonnyblitz]

110. self delete

nevermind. useless.

[11 Bravo]

120. Good luck, dapper.

I initiated this thread, and it nothing to do with the pernicious and ongoing anti-gay bias in this country. Yet, somehow, johnnyblitz and bettyellen (who have clearly misssed scores of my other posts dealing with homophobia) have decided that I am a homophobic bigot.
I wish you luck, my friend.

[dapper]

129. you BIGOT! :-)

When I responded, I wasn't talking about anything in particular. I too have seen scored of posts where people are offended by one thing or another.

Although I only have around 500 posts under my belt, I read through DU Morning, Noon and Night, I do see a shift in the "I am offended" posts. I don't want to invalidate anyones feelings, sometimes I like to add my 2 cents but to see the way people get slammed for their opinions or having a different opinion is... not what I would expect from DU. I don't mean we should all have the same opinions but... the board is insulated from Right/Left banter, this allows us to discuss topics that relate to being Democratic/Liberal. But lately it seems like the banter is going back and forth like the Righties and Lefties having a smack down.

Maybe everyone needs to stop and take a breath. We don't all need to be on the same page and don't need to agree on every topic out there.

I was planning on making something for dinner about 2 hours ago.....

Peace


Dapper

[jonnyblitz]

133. awww...sounds like a victimhood post to me.

GET OVER IT!! ITS ONLY BLACK HUMOR!! lighten up...GEEEZ :eyes:

seriously i doubt you are a homophobe. you just aren't looking through the same prism. I would never in a million years have the audacity to tell a group who has been historically prejudiced against that they need to get over being ridiculed. that is all.

congrats on 9 years cancer free, btw.

[bettyellen]

130. i never said you were a bigot, i said i choose to react against bigotry instead of managing feelings

as per your recommendation. lot's of defensive flying off the handle here. thanks for putting words in my mouth! LOL.
and also, tks for the psychobabble, been years since i've heard anything so trite!

[dapper]

134. btw, I was joking about the Bigot remark...

just in case... I have to stop joking around :-)

Can I make some dinner now? :-)

Dapper

[sniffa]

169. y'know, i resent being caLLed a homophobe

when i'm a just an enabLer.

[dapper]

In reality, you can choose your own feelings...

Granted, some of those feelings you choose are basically "pre-programmed". If you have been insulted all of your life, your first reaction might be to get angry. However, if someone comes up to you and insults you, you can pause for a second and ask yourself how you want to react. You can choose to be angry or choose to handle it a different way. "Who Cares what you think" and walk away. And then you can be happy that the person who tried to insult you did not push your buttons this time.

Do you ever get really angry at something and later say to yourself "I could have handled that better" or "it really wasn't such a big deal". How did you choose/change your feeling?


Dapper

[Bluebear]

98. Of course I say I could have handled it things better after the fact...

but feelings and emotions to me are visceral.

[dapper]

107. Depends on if your interested or argumentative...

You know how people say they are going to put a Quarter in a container everytime they curse.
and then when they realize they cursed, they curse again because they slipped and have to put a Quarter in the container :-)

This is basically how it is done. Before you respond to something, think about it for 5 seconds and ask yourself, how should I respond. You can decide to respond in anger or you can think of another way to respond. Try to respond without anger.

I dated someone for a few years who was a button pusher. She could really push those buttons and for a long time I was become infuriated. When I stopped letting it effect me, that's basically when the button pushing stopped.

If your serious about trying it out, see how well you can do. I have to admit that I do not live hard and fast to this rule. In fact, my boss got an earful about two weeks ago because I went with my first reaction. Afterwards, I felt really bad! I knew I should have taken about 5 minutes to cool down before I went for the juggular.

Dapper

[Bluebear]

113. Well now you are talking about behavior modification

You can decide how to react, but that is completely different from "choosing feelings".

[dapper]

122. Not exactly

It definately is behavior modification.

and I guess it does depend on the "feeling". In the event someone died, your going to feel remourse and ... your probably right on this one. I wouldn't want anyone to start being happy at a funeral. Although people do take comfort that "they have gone to a better place" or "they are no longer suffering".

In my own experience with Anxiety.... man, the panic set in. I remember walking around a store, I was aimed to beat the demon :-) and although that feeling did not go away, I was able to control my reaction to it... so in these respects, you really cannot choose your feeling, only your reaction to it.

Jelousy, Anger and other "feelings" you can do something about, atleast in my experience. Again, most of it is behavior modification, thinking before you act, understanding the effect on yourself and on the other person.

People can modify their behavior on their own in many cases, other times they may need the help of a doctor or a medicine. What I've been writing isn't a cure all but you would be amazed at what you can accomplish when you put your mind to it :-)

Dapper

[bettyellen]

67. i can believe that somehting is misogynist or homophobic and not be wounded- YET i can still do

what i know is the right thing and speak out on it.
if you look at the threads this past week- it's the wise asses claiming victim status, crying about free speech, having to walk on eggshells, etc...not the gay people.

[Pithlet]

135. If that is so, then shouldn't that go both ways?

You're letting the PC crowd here at DU get to you to the point you had to start a thread about it. If it bothers you that much, then just choose not to be bothered by it. Voila. Problem solved. Edit I just realized you're not the OP. My basic premise still stands though. If the overly sensitive can just choose not to be offended, then the people being accused of being insensitive can simply choose not to let that bother them. If emotions are simply a matter of personal choice, then that should apply to everyone. Personally, I don't think they are, and people who claim that usually just want to be protected from the consequences of being a jerk.

[Beelzebud]

58. Yes I think so. When someone questions your humanity based on a subjective advertisment, yes.

Someone told me they questioned my humanity because I didn't find the Snickers advertisement to be offensive.

I'd say thats going overboard on the PC nonsense.

PC at its core is just an attempt to stifle free speech, free thought, and free expression.

[treestar]

64. Explain more your cancer survivor story

I am curious - when people are being treated for cancer, they have a "black humor?"

I can imagine it might be hard to take any of the kinds of things DU gets bothered about seriously when you've had cancer. (I never have, knock wood.)

[ulysses]

75. I'll vouch for that.

when people are being treated for cancer, they have a "black humor?"

I did, anyway. I remember it being a comforting distraction at the time. :shrug:

[treestar]

79. What kind of things were funny?

[ulysses]

80. I was eleven then.

I remember getting on one very long kick with my parents where, when I went in for chemo, we passed the time coming up with names for dishes with dog as the main ingredient. Chow "chow", great dane gratin, dachsund delight, that kind of thing. Pretty odd in retrospect, especially since I've always loved dogs. I don't remember how we got started on that.

There was other stuff. It wasn't at anyone's expense, that I recall, but a lot of it was more bleak than the dog thing, at least to an eleven-year-old.

[treestar]

93. Oh, man, I'm sorry you had to go through that at that age

My favorite people on the planet are that age now. (My nephews who are twins). Just the thought is awful.

I'm glad you beat it! I'm sure you are, too.

[11 Bravo]

83. One example.

One of our radiation/oncology techs was a stone fox. Every guy who came in for a session flirted with her. One morning, while a group of us (men and women) were sitting in the waiting area, one of the other men asked me if my wife cared that I flirted with Rhea, because his wife couldn't care less. Before I could answer, a woman in the group leaned over and said, "Of course she doesn't. You can have a little fun because she thinks you're going to die and she'll hit the insurance lottery." Every person in the area laughed until they cried. I damned near pissed myself. Maybe you had to be there.

[ulysses]

84. LOL!

Yup. :D

[William Bloode]

81. Maybe, but let me tell you what offends me.

What offends me is people telling me what i should find funny or amusing. My sense of humor is personal to me, part of me. i don't need some thought police fool trying to get in my head and tell me why i should or should not find something hilarious.

So i reserve the right to ignore such people. They have the right too illustrate their views to me and others. I do however reserve the right not to pay attention.

[k_jerome]

86. notice how it is always the so-called repressed minorities...

that do the whining too. shouldn't they be doing more to win people over to their side?

[bettyellen]

88. u mean all those white men walking on eggshells and repressing their free speech

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

91. "We can't say what we wanted to with impunity for decades & we don't like it!"

nt

[k_jerome]

97. i mean, what is with playing the victim all the time?

yeah, no civil rights and general persecution, but victims? jeez.

[Bluebear]

104. Yes, you don't "help your cause" that way

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=176635&mesg_id=178192

[bettyellen]

106. "so called" cause, the poster has yet to agree to the existance of this alleged repression

[dapper]

153. Helping your cause....

Back from dinner...

I tend not to hang on every word someone says because I know people do not always articulate correctly exactly what they want to say. If you hang on every word, you can find fault with just about anything. In fact, in the previous posting, I clerified it. In fact, when I said "Accept", I mentioned I hate that word as I found it to mean- you need my approval.

"Helping your cause", "Helping your case", "Helping your argument".... Sure I could have said "Shouting, yelling, cursing, beating people up, will not help you change peoples minds or attitudes about the gay and lesbian community" but I used the words that it is not helping your cause.

Sorry but I just think the way you are going at it will have the opposite effect. I know when people are shouting, yelling..etc at me, the next time the particular argument comes along, that person ends up arguing by themselves.

I hope that explains it better.

Dapper

[NashVegas]

90. It Took Me 30 Years to Understand Your Last Line

"But everyone who doesn't share your pain or your sense of humor is not automatically an asshole."

It came when I was extremely upset and agitated over a family matter. The person I was talking (about the reason for the upset) to got very worried for me and was attempting to calm me down with logic.

I sent her an email that said, "look, I'm upset. It doesn't mean you're an asshole, and it doesn't mean I'm an asshole. So just let me be upset."

I think there are a lot of people around DU - and everywhere else in the US, for that matter - who haven't figured that out yet.

[Karenina]

125. There is nothing more UNPRODUCTIVE

or obnoxious than one attempting to dictate to another how s/he "should" feel. We feel what we feel and it's ALL FINE. It seems to me that where we get into conflict is in giving voice to those feelings, particularly in the presence of those who are not inclined to leave us to work them out.

"Political Correctness" in my mind is about recognizing and acknowledging sensibilities. It's about being sensitive and embracing that as a value without resentment.

In the past weeks, we all have seen many examples of crossed wires. Those who feel insulted because they could not relate to others' pain and those pained who lashed out at another perceived attack.

What was lacking were QUESTIONS and a willingness to LISTEN with an empathetic ear, see with an empathetic eye. Those not affected insisted the reactions of those affected were "overblown." Those affected immediately put such replies into the "enemy" camp.

My question is WHY those who cannot relate to cries of pain INSIST that those crying be disregarded or reply in such a manner to marginalize and minimize the outcry. It is the same dynamic being played out in Iraq. Can anyone else reading this see the parallel?

I'm not surprised we're all in such turmoil. The U.S. *MIC is hellbent on destruction, the likes of which are unprecedented. We ALL feel the vibe and assign it to whatever is closest in our environment.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Mother Nature will put us out of our misery, while rescuing HER ability to support life forms more benign than we.

[NashVegas]

143. Well, Yeah, But You Know What?

My question is WHY those who cannot relate to cries of pain INSIST that those crying be disregarded or reply in such a manner to marginalize and minimize the outcry.

Well, this is a public message board and not a therapy session, for one thing. Message boards attract debate, but one cannot debate what is and what is not a legitimate emotion (although, IMO, what is an appropriate expression of said emotion is very much on the table).

I haven't seen anyone say, 'get over it.' (It's possible those were deleted before I saw them.) For every one poster saying they saw the Snickers spot as satire against homophobes, it seems there are three to respond and more or less call that person a clueless asshole. And yet, when a poll was made, there was a 2:1 margin leaning towards those who were not offended. So, who's being shouted down?

[Karenina]

147. "I haven't seen anyone say, 'get over it.'"

Apparently not. Perhaps those 3 responses might clue you in to something you may not have picked up on before. But as long as the hetero majority has a 2:1... Who are these who would DARE have the audacity to "shout down" the dominant culture. Perish the thought.

Crisco, do you really feel so strongly about your RIGHT to DEFEND questionable expressions that so clearly cause others pain?

[NashVegas]

154. In This Country, Yes

The old adage, "I disagree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it." I guess it got banged into my head a few too many times. Until fairly recent times (the last 15 years?), the prevailing wisdom among progressives was to give bigots of all kinds "enough rope to hang themselves." This is why we allow groups like the KKK to march, this is why we allow Annie & Rush to speak, because to do otherwise puts us in the position of being the oppressors, while allowing them to speak openly gives decent people a chance to hear with their own ears how fucked up they are.

I don't like the idea of defending Snickers as it is commercial speech, but those who've posted in these forums, thoughtfully and respectfully disagreeing about its intention or appropriateness, no I don't have any issues there. Thoughtful posters who've gotten fed up and gave some back to people who are calling them bigots and RWers, I don't have any issues there, either.

My hat's off to Skinner & the other admins for allowing the discussion to run its course.

Oh, and, to get back to your original reply to me? "Political correctness" in my mind, is directly related to Claude Rains' line in Casablanca: "I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind is from Vischy." What is politically correct speech strongly depends on where and to whom you are saying it.

[Guaranteed]

176. Haven't really seen any "cries of pain," either. I see a lot

of immature, nasty behavior.

[VelmaD]

109. In a word...NO

While there's nothing wrong with passion, intellect, and honesty...all of these can be demostrated (and in fact are more likely to be demonstrated) by those who also do not engage in sexist, racist, homophobic or other insensitive and offensive nonsense. In fact as soon as you open your mouth and something offensive comes out...you're probably not really saying anything intelligent.

It isn't about sharing anyone's pain or sense of humor. It's about sharing a sense of outrage that we STILL live in a world where some people are considered second-class citizens because of their race, gender, or sexual orientation. It's about sharing a belief in the equal worth and dignity of ALL human beings and their right to equality under the law. It's about not being an asshole.

It is really very simple to get your point across without being offensive. Most people do it every day. But every time I hear someone go on an anti-PC screed...I have a gut reaction because nearly everyone I've seen or heard do this in real life was genuinely of the belief that they should be able to say any offensive thing they wanted and suffer no social consequences for doing so. I find that most anti-PC ranters don't genuinely believe in free speech...they only believe in their right to say whatever they want. They aren't so keen on other people's right to call them on it.

[Bluebear]

116. VelmaD put it perfectly, I can add nothing to this post. nt

[bettyellen]

123. but Velma! The OP has actualy supported gay rights in the past! So he can do no wrong.....

or so he would claim. he feels our pain. :lol:

[Katherine Brengle]

128. Well said. nt

[jonnyblitz]

138. good post, Velma!!

send me brownies!! :P :hi:

[donco6]

144. Wow. I wish I could just recommend your post.

I really don't want to recommend this thread, but your post is worth seeing on the front page.

[Madspirit]

152. Bravo Velma!!

I wouldn't have needed to post my below post at all if I had read you first. Well put!!
Lee

[uppityperson]

160. If I could recommend only 1 post today, this would be it.

[Duncan Grant]

163. One of your best posts ever.

Your last sentence was the perfect summation. Thank-you. :applause:

[LostinVA]

171. Excellent post, Velma

[porphyrian]

117. I am. - n/t

[many a good man]

141. It's all about CONTEXT

A comment that may be acceptable in one context is abhorrent in another.

Exactly what context is DU?

100,970 different contexts because we are not face to face.

[Madspirit]

142. Too politically correct?!

:rofl: :rofl:

I don't think it's too politically correct to not think rape is funny, racism is funny or homophobia is funny.

I was actually shocked how Non-politically correct a lot of the posters are.

Lastly, what's wrong with being correct, politically? It's what I strive for and I actually have a great sense of humor. I just simply don't think those things are funny.
Lee

[jonnyblitz]

146. 11 Bravo I do appreciate your PM to me even though

we were at each others throats on this thread. thanks. :thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

151. Likewise

:thumbsup:

[Raine]

149. Not from some of the stuff

I've seen around here lately. It seems like a little more PC could be used regarding insensitivity toward others. I 've seen so much rudeness, incivility and inappropriate so-called "humor" it's downright repulsive. x(

[Dastard Stepchild]

150. I don't think it's politically correct to be offended when someone laughs at your sensitive spot...

It's a human response to hurt. That said, those that laugh are not assholes, although when informed that the joke isn't funny and is rather hurtful, it does seem, at best, impolite to keep laughing.

Kindergarten playground rules - it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Then the game should probably stop.

[Hubert Flottz]

164. YES!

K&R

[T_i_B]

172. Yes

All too often the left is more interested in PC posturing and tokenism then in actually helping other people.

[Bluebear]

175. Oh do tell.