The Catholic Church has always been odd

[MoseyWalker]

http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/castration/eunuch/

Dining peculiarities aside, most boys ushered into eunuchhood were made thus in order to become members of an exotic "third sex". In Italy the practice reached its pinnacle in the form of the "castrati", the young she-males who lent their angelic voices to the choirs and operas of the Catholic Church. Dolled up in their foppish clothes, with their rounded faces, and pale complexions, they were said to exude a profound sense of "otherness" -- to the delight of some and the horror of others. Their voices, raised in song, were unlike any other human voice. They sounded neither male nor female – nor even like that of a child. They were unique. They were“castrati”.

Although the musical ability of eunuchs had long been recognized in other cultures, and had no doubt been part of the Catholic music scene itself for quite some time, the Catholic Church did not officially acknowledge these boy “castrati” until 1599 when Pope Clement VIII became smitten with the sweetness and flexibility of their voices. Women were banned from singing in the Church, therefore it was the high vocal range of the castrati that gave devotional music its appealing angelic quality.

While some Church officials suggested it would be preferable to lift the ban on women singers than to continue endorsing the castration of little boys, the Pope disagreed, quoting Saint Paul, "Let women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak." Of course since it was illegal to perform castrations (transgressors could be excommunicated), all castrati presenting themselves for the choir claimed to have lost their genitals through tragic “accident”.

After the Pope’s official acknowledgement and acceptance of castrati, the number of these "accidents" increased dramatically. Parents seeking upward mobility towed their little lads down to a barber or butcher who separated them from their testicles for a fee. However, mere ball lopping did not a singer make. One still had to have a remarkable voice to qualify for the choir (and later, the operas). As a result, many boys found themselves needlessly lightened of their rightful loads. Still, few were left completely out in the cold. Since celibacy and pre-pubescent castration went hand in hand, many of these lads eventually found other places within the Church. As a result, all the churches in Italy soon had castrati staff.

[sandnsea]

1. What's odd

is that you post a link about castration and eunuchs in various cultures, then only focus on the Catholic Church.

[scarletwoman]

3. I don't see why it's odd at all. This is part of the heritage of Western Civilization.

Castrated boys in China had absolutely no bearing on the culture I grew up.

The Catholic Church and European history -- being of European heritage myself, as were the "Revolutionaries" of the 18th century -- are very much more relevant to the development of the United States than any such phenomema in any other culture.

sw

[MoseyWalker]

4. good point

[saltpoint]

2. Alexander had a eunuch lover -- Bagoas -- an inheritance from the

court of Darius of Persia. So I don't think you have to be Catholic, or Protestant, or Jewish, or anything else to be aware of this theme. I don't hold Catholicism accountable for the idea, and not all Italian church parishes were peopled by castrati, nor did all church choirs of the time require pre-pubescent castration of male youth. many musicians, though not all, were Catholic, and many wrote for instruments and not the voice.

Female genital mutilation in some countries occurs today, overwhelmingly in non-Catholic cultures, and has nothing to do with music.

Mosey, I'm not taking issue with the historical fact of the castrati, only suggesting that the practice does not characterize the whole Church.

[MoseyWalker]

6. thank you for your

well thought out reply.

[JDPriestly]

8. I've never heard of protestant or jewish castrati.

Has anyone else?

[saltpoint]

10. Alexander was a pagan. My point was that prior to the rise of

Christianity eunuchs appear with some regularity in some cultures. Very likely eunuchs predate the reign of David, the Catholic Church, and the Protestant Reformation by some centuries. I believe castration is forbidden under Talmudic Law -- the Torah prohibits castration of both people and animals (Leviticus 22:24; Talmud Shabbat 110b, Chagigah 14b).

Bagoas specifically would have died somewhere around 300 BC., long before the ministry of Jesus and the rise of the Catholic Church in following centuries.

[HappyWeasel]

14. I really want to know about whether there are any in the theocratic right that are castrated

[saltpoint]

16. No need, evidently. Ted Haggard had four or five appointments

in counseling and presto! -- he was rewired and good to go with the ladies.

Counseling, then, for anything involving the nether parts, no matter the subject.

[HappyWeasel]

5. yeah

For example, the Chinese castrated people as a common punishment and even had eunuch warriors. One of them is said to have discovered America in 1421.

and also, the bible endorses castration as an act of devotion to God.
I wonder if there are any castrated republic fundigelicals....

[silverweb]

7. The Rotten Library is endlessly fascinating...

...to say nothing of amusingly written.

How anyone with internet access to such can ever, ever claim to be bored is well beyond my imagining!

:D

[MoseyWalker]

9. I will never be bored again, though

I may be boring...........

[silverweb]

13. LOL

:D

[BlueAlert]

11. Catholics Monks were on the forefront of brewing technologies....

in the middle ages.

For which I'll always be thankful :)

[saltpoint]

12. Welcome to DU, BlueAlert.

Yes.

They still make some damn good beer, too.

[HappyWeasel]

15. seriously, this is as great as unyclopedia.