Law of Attraction (metaphysics), comments please

[steve2470]

I just learned the "formal name" for this metaphysical "principle". Being of a scientific bent, I'm not totally accepting it. I'm also of a spiritual way too. I'm not posting this here to promote it but rather to read your opinions and viewpoints. I value the intellects and educations of DU'ers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction

The Law of Attraction is an idea that is widespread in New Age and New Thought philosophy. It posits to never dwell on the negative, as the metaphysical principle of life is embodied in a "law of attraction': "you get what you think about, your thoughts determine your destiny." <1>

Dick Sutphen affirms that the Law of Attraction states, in a nutshell, is like attracts like.<2>

Books have been written on the subject by Michael Losier, Jerry and Esther Hicks, Penny Jordan, Sheryl Woods, Robert Anthony<3>, Kristi Gold, Liz Gerstein, David Hooper, Sandra Anne Taylor, Ernest Holmes, William Walker Atkinson, Norman Vincent Peale, Robert Collier, Israel Regardie, Anastasia Kile, Mark Allen, Bob Proctor, Joe Vitale, Dr. Wilfredo Chevere<1> and Lynn Grabhorn<4>.

One web site offers contacts with business, spiritual and life coaches who include the "Law of Attraction" in their approach. <5>

Esther Hicks, a professional channel, is one of the best-known proponents of the subject. Her web site describes it as "The most powerful law in the universe."<6>

In March 2006 a film The Secret based on, and explaining, the "Law of Attraction", was broadcast through the internet. Larry King, Ellen Degeneres, and Oprah Winfrey have recorded shows based on the film. A book based on the film has recently been released. <7>
<end of article>

[EVDebs]

1. Newtonian vs. Quantum physics ?

At smaller levels the rules of the Newtonian world give way to string theory etc. and potentially 11 simultaneous levels of 'existence'. You might just have well have asked 'what do women want ?' !!!

Birds of a feather...it takes one to know one...God knows His own, let Him sort 'em out...

"like attracts like." Opposites attract, right ? Am I losing my mind ?

[steve2470]

oh better men than I have posed that question

I will stick to something like quantum mechanics :)

[EVDebs]

4. I like Rowan & Martin's version of String Theory

Spy #1 : "I've got the yo-yo"

Spy #2 : "I've got the string"

[Marnieworld]

2. I think it's hooey

My boss is very new-agey and lately he's been "encouraging" his employees to watch "The Secret". It's very hard to say no. I've seen it. It was an over produced (think graphics endlessly moving with sound effects) informercial that could have conveyed the same information in a third of the time. It was one New Age writer or teacher after another in a single camera shot saying the same thing over and over. Halfway through you are still wondering "So what's the Secret?" and then eventually you realize that this is it.

It's a combination of common sense and wishful thinking. Obviously if you are in the process of acheiving a goal, first you visualize what you want, see getting it, and believing in acheiving it. The Secret implies that this is all you have to do and you will just "Attract" it. It just works! Of course you have to do see what you want, but you generally have to do a lot of things to get it. So on the one hand it's common sense and on the other it's just fantasy. How valid is a theory if it can't be tested? Proved or Disproved?

I also thing that the whole concept is infantile and arrogant. To think that your thoughts and words have the power to change reality is so arrogant. You imagining yourself godlike. To want this, to believe this, is infantile. Literally infants think that they are the center of the universe. Not coincedentally, so does my Boss.

So, does that answer your question?

;)

[steve2470]

5. I certainly have your opinion :)

I also saw that movie. The lack of emphasis on ACTION disturbed me, too. The traffic accident example, for one, bothered me some too. Also, the overemphasis on money.

[I Have A Dream]

3. I'm a very spiritual (not religious) person, and I absolutely believe in...

the Law of Attraction. To me, it's a very powerful tool to bring into my life what I want in it.


I have no desire to debate the issue however. If others don't believe in it, I'm OK with that. If people think that I'm silly for believing in it, I'm OK with that also. :)

[helderheid]

26. I'm with you

:hi:

[I Have A Dream]

27. helderheid, how could I have been at DU so long without ever "knowing" you...

before now? It's always such a gift to find a kindred spirit!

:hi:

[helderheid]

29. c'mere!

:hug:

[rumpel]

6. On the science

since thought is energy I do believe it is very possible.

Here is what those energies can do
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

and Prof. Pibram
http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

[Why Syzygy]

15. The second link

contains a link for a review of the book, "The Holographic Universe" By Michael Talbot.
Coincidently (ahem) I had asked a friend if I could borrow his copy. He dropped it by this evening.
The page also contains many other interesting links. Thanks!

[rumpel]

16. thought energies...

"at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something"

:)

btw, Pribram seems to still be faculty at Georgetown U - he must now be about 90 or so...
correction: he is not

[Speck Tater]

7. My observations Self fulfilling prophecy

Once upon a time, a long time ago when I was working in retail, I had a regular customer who believed that everyone in the world was rude and inconsiderate. In fact, he treated people in a way that invited them, and fact almost demanded of them that they treat him rudely. His behavior toward people conditioned them to treat him rudely. His was, in short, a complete a**hole, and in HIS world, everyone WAS rude and inconsiderate.

That was a pretty blatant case of self-fulfilling prophecy, but in many more subtle ways the manner in which we respond to others can condition those others to treat us in a particular way. Whether we succeed socialy, or in our career can be affected very strongly by the manner in which we approach our friends and coworkers.

It would be very difficult to decide to what degree our attitudes can mold the world around us to fit our expectations, but I think it is safe to conclude that people who dwell on doom and gloom probably "attract" a lot of doom and gloom in their lives, not as the result of any "mystical" force of nature, but more as a result of the effect those attitudes can have on the people around them. Some very large percentage of what happens to us in this modern world has more to do with other people than with natural causes. A bad attitude can ruin relationships and "attract" all manner of "tragedy" from the people with whom we interact.

As far as worry attracting earthquakes or tidal waves, that's just nonsense. But the tragedies in our lives are most often more related to relationships than to natural calamities. I have no doubt that a bad attitude can attract social and career disasters.

[rumpel]

8. MIT Dr Swanson

The Synchronized Universe
(Running time = 22 mins)

http://consciousmedianetwork.com/members/cswanson.htm

[Duppers]

31. and bush got degrees from Yale & Harvard

Even MIT puts out some stinky apples.

Saying that things are "paranormal" and "spiritual" does not mean that they cannot be eventually explained by science.

Science is but at the edge of the quest to explain our universe and reality. As enigmatic, abstruse, and profound as it is, this shall be a long quest. And it does not mean that we should look to things not yet understood and assign them mystical qualities, such as earlier civilizations did the stars.

[BlackVelvet04]

9. I think there's something to it.

The Bible states that you should dwell on the good things. It also says that "as a man think in his heart so he is".

If nothing else, I think we are happier people by not dwelling on negatives.

[pitohui]

22. the bible says you can't add one inch to your height by thinking on it

the bible says a lot of things, people who are afraid to think about negative possibilities, we have a name for them -- losers -- because they are unable to make long-term plans for the future and end up being burdens on family or society

the person who thinks it can't happen to him doesn't buy insurance

[BlackVelvet04]

24. I think it says worrying about it....

not thinking about it.

I'm not talking about never considering the possibility of something negative, I'm talking about always worrying and contemplating the negative.
Making plans isn't dwelling on negatives.

Lots of people make plans and then sit around worrying about the what ifs.

You sure sound angry.

[revree]

10. Read F. David Peat's "Synchronicity"

He's a physicist, writes a lot about resonance theory and synchronous theory, that energy synchs up at equivalent vibratory rates. Like energy attracts like, and it seems our thought works on a similar basis.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. The Law Of Attraction Absolutely Impacts Us.

Thoughts are amazingly powerful for changing one's perception within themselves, which can help an individual most definitely attain more positive outcomes based just on their own merits. Those powerful thoughts can also easily cast a subconscious vibe that is picked up upon by those around you; which in turn alters their interaction with you.

Thinking positively and with strong mind is always the way to go. Negativity breeds negativity and no good can come of it.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Excellent post, OMC

That's exactly how I see things. I know if I change how I think about things, things change. When I have a negative outlook about life, it seems I attract negative things to me. It's like I'm Pigpen from "Peanuts" or something, with a cloud of bad stuff around me. :rofl:

Thinking positively (which is sometimes difficult, no doubt) gets rid of that cloud. I now that sounds simplistic, but I find it to be very powerful.

[omega minimo]

14. And There Is Absolutely No Irony

in the fact that HE ALWAYS COMES OUT SWINGING :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :puke:

[omega minimo]

13. Silly, what do you think happens when you post a thread?

:hi:

"It posits to never dwell on the negative, as the metaphysical principle of life is embodied in a "law of attraction': "you get what you think about, your thoughts determine your destiny."

[LaurenG]

17. Thanks for posting this

:thumbsup: :hi:

[OxQQme]

18. Many books I have read

convince me that in the moment when we awake from the sleep state into the daily
world, we have a choice to either mentally smile at the new day or frown. Choice is all.
We humans are not bound to our present but for our consent.

[pitohui]

23. "choice is all" is an anti-democratic concept

the rightwing fucktards believe "choice is all" and that people are poor because they had the bad taste to think the wrong thoughts and choose the wrong parents

i think any progressive with eyes in her eye should know better -- choice is a very tiny part of life, you do not choose your parents, you do not choose your color, religion, or gender, you do not choose your class, you do not choose your genetic predisposition to disease

i was born w. a genetic illness, which i had from birth

the concept that i have choice is not just a lie, but to me, a hateful lie, because it was used by others to discriminate harshly against me

you see, if i was a good person in some other bullshit life, then maybe i would not have been born sick

somehow i chose that

i cry bullshit

i used to be quite active in the new age but i just got sickened by all the rightwing nonsense

we need to call this crap down whenever it's pushed in our faces

[Ladyhawk]

19. My cousin wants me to make her a copy of "The Secret."

I watched it. My mouth dropped open. I forgot to eat the lunch I had just prepared.

Why? My Bullshit-o-meter was off the scale.

WHAT A LOAD!

[onager]

20. No kidding. This is all very Old Age Thinking...

Check out Emile Coue, who can be found on websites that usually feature a LOT of unnecessary !!!exclamation points!!!

Coue was a big influence on such deep-thinking modern philosophers as Norman Vincent Peale and Napoleon "Think And Grow Rich" Hill.

I haven't seen anything in the Law Of Attraction that improves on their Old Age idea of positive thinking. Except the mandatory modern nod to poorly stated ideas stolen from quantum physics.

And that Wikipedia article has some of the worst testimonials I've ever seen:

Esther Hicks, a professional channel, is one of the best-known proponents of the subject.

Taking lifestyle advice from a channeler makes as much sense as asking for investment tips from Ken Lay. I've never seen a channeler who didn't strike me as, at best, a self-deluded crackpot and at worst an outright fraud.

Jeez, it's amazing how much New Age bullshit is just slightly repackaged bullshit from an earlier time. Hicks and her husband, for example, stole their entire act from Jane Roberts and her "Seth Speaks" scam.

Then we have those really impressive celebrity testimonials...

Larry King, Ellen Degeneres, and Oprah Winfrey have recorded shows based on the film.

Well, then it MUST be true! :eyes:

I have to partly retract my previous swipe at Norman Vincent Peale. That lineup makes Peale look like Plato.

[Ladyhawk]

30. Here's the e-mail I sent my cousin after I had recovered...

...enough from The Secret to type:


Hi XXXXXX,

This movie a complete scam. There are no gods, no ghosts, no woo-woo New Age attraction vibrations. The natural world is all there is and science is the key to understanding it. You don’t need more of what, in my opinion, is no better than Christian fundamentalism. The message has changed, but the shysters are still there, ready to waste your time and/or money.

We can, of course, discuss this in detail, if you would like. I do believe that “spirituality” can be achieved, but I only trust what can be proven and tested empirically. Meditation, for example, is proven to change brain waves. I am open to new things, but this “law of attraction” doesn’t pass the “Bullshit-o-meter Test” at first glance.

I encourage you to pick up some books on logic and critical thinking. (Dawkins’ latest, The God Delusion is pretty good. He mostly focuses on the concept of god, but also addresses other areas of fuzzy thinking.)

Check this out: http://www.skepdic.com/news/newsletter71.html

“The Law of Attraction is a New Age belief that one's mental disposition attracts similar external circumstances and events. In other words, your mental intentions and attitudes draw people and things of like intention and attitude to yourself. On one level this is trivially true. We generally hang out with people who think like us and share our values and we avoid people who disagree with us on important matters and don't share our values. But a moment's reflection should reveal that this ‘law’ lacks truthiness.

“Grieving vulnerable people don't attract vulnerable people; they attract vultures and vampires who take advantage of their grief. If you say that grief and greed are both negative so this example supports the law of attraction, then this law is impossible to test. It's too slippery to have any meaningful content if obvious contradictions to it are said to support it. When kindness begets not more kindness but resentment, a New Age defender of this ‘law’ can always claim that the kindness wasn't genuine. “

Take Care,

LH


P.S. It’s all about rationality. :)

[pitohui]

21. this is the oldest of superstitions

what are you asking? how it works? it's simple, it's the principle of like calling to like, if i want to catch a bird, i sew up a feather in a bag

clearly it's a superstition that doesn't work and that people only resort to when technology fails, just like prayer or other forms of cheap magic that involve no real investment in effort and so can be easily tested as to success or failure

if you could get anything you liked that easily, who would be poor? who would be sick? who would be without anything they desired?

it's not just non-powerful, it's sad and pathetic

[LWolf]

25. My thoughts:

I don't pretend to be a scientist. While I am fascinated by science, I'm also repelled by it. Science without conscience is more destructive, imo, than all the superstitions in the world.

The law of attraction? Strip away all of the hype and dogma, and what you've got is intriguing, to say the least. I love unanswered questions. Other's fear them. If it's ok to have yet unanswered questions, I ponder these:

Does like attract like? What attracts, and what repels?

Science tells me that opposites attract, and that sames repel. I've seen that work with relationships as well as with positive and negative charges.

Quantum physics also proposes that everything is energy, and everything is potential. If our thoughts are energy, that energy can act on potential.

Have I seen like attract like? Maybe, or maybe it is a different phenomenon. Some examples:

Some things increase as they become a primary focus.

Hate begets hate, fear begets fear. Focus on "negative" forces like hate and fear increase stress levels, and have a direct effect on physical and mental health. Conversely, people who consciously choose to spend their time focused on positive things tend to be happier. Just my observations, of course. Are there studies to provide evidence? I don't know. When I can see it work right in front of me, I don't look for other proofs.

Here are some common generalizations that show, at the least, that the "law of attraction" has been recognized, or believed, in some form for a long time:

You reap what you sow.
What goes around comes around.
karma

While a belief is not a "proof" of anything, when different groups, different cultures, different peoples at different times all have a version of the same belief within a different structure, it's worth another look.

None of my ponderings are evidence, or intended to convince you of anything one way or another. You asked, so I thought. :)

Without a definitive answer, does it hurt to focus on positive things, and let negative things go?

I don't mean that we ought to quit work and think positively about winning the lottery, lol, or that we ought to sit back and expect everything we want to just "happen" without our efforts. But is there harm in focusing on our goals? Is there harm in focusing on what's good, what we love, what we enjoy about life, rather than what's bad, what we hate? Which is likely to lead to a state of happiness, serenity, contentment, joy, or whatever you see as positive?

[lonestarnot]

28. I had some nice video links to this subject, but they are on my

old computer. It is a practical faith science; that's wierd sounding. heh And since man can't control his own thoughts, he will never be the master of his own universe.