Parents sign theirs kids over to CBS for reality show experimentation

[KurtNYC]

(and we still ask when the MSM will shine the light on civil rights abuses? They are profiting from them and making them the new normal...)

Parents of minors starring in "Kid Nation," the controversial new CBS reality show, signed away their rights to sue the network and the show's producers if their child died, was severely injured, or contracted a sexually transmitted disease during the program's taping. The blanket liability waivers are contained in a detailed "participant agreement" prepared by the show's producers and signed by parents. That document, a copy of which you'll find below, also gave consent to CBS and its production partners to make medical treatment decisions on the minor's behalf (including surgery), though the network made no promises about the "qualifications or credentials" of medical professionals that might treat the stars of "Kid Nation," which was originally titled "The Manhattan Project." The show, which debuts next month, features 40 children (ages 8-15) living in a New Mexico "ghost town" for 40 days without adult supervision. Concerns about possible violations of child labor laws have prompted state officials to investigate the TV production. A copy of the participant agreement was provided to TSG by the New Mexico attorney general's office in response to an open records request. By signing the agreement, a parent gave CBS the right to "search the Minor's person and the Minor's belongings (including, without limitation, by x-ray or similar device)." Additionally, the agreement notes, "Kid Nation" participants "will have no privacy," except when they are in the bathroom. Provided, of course, that the child is actually "in the process of showering, bathing, urinating, or defecating."

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0823071kidnation1.html

This is LEGAL ???

[rocktivity]

1. I've seen two or three commercials for the show

But not lately--which I hope is a good omen.

:headbang:
rocknation

[supernova]

2. Labor laws? What about willful neglect?

Purposefully sending your kid off where you know, in advance, that there will be no responsible adult supervision!? :wtf:

I think these parents need to be taken to task as well as the "producers" of the show.

[Mojorabbit]

20. There was adult

supervision from what I saw on a report on tv. Even had a child psychologist on the team.

[supernova]

23. Doesn't mean they acted ethically or professionally

I am highly skeptical of this entire enterprise.

[backscatter712]

3. Just what we need...

A reality show version of Lord of the Flies.

TV has sunk to a new low.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Legal? Looks like it to me.

They're not really going unsupervised, since there are camera men and so on everywhere in case something bad actually happens.

The waiver sounds like the sort of thing plenty of parents sign for summer camp, sports, etc.

[rocktivity]

6. Camps provide the EXPECTATION of ORGANIZED adult supervision

Unless what the parents agreed to states otherwise, the camera crew's obligation is to record, not supervise. It may be legal, but it's so unethical that CBS may have already decided that this show shouldn't see the light of day.

:headbang:
rocknation

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Yes, and this is unorganized.

It's like an unorganized summer camp that they're filming.

:shrug:

[rocktivity]

13. And by the way, I hope the backgrounds of the camera crew

were THUROUGHLY checked...

:headbang:
rocknation

[atreides1]

9. Not This Parent

We sent our son to USN Sea Cadet training one summer, and while I remember we authorized them to provide medical care, it was to be provided by trained medical personnel on the base he was at, and I don't recall any part of the permission form that indicated that I gave up my right to file a lawsuit.

[KurtNYC]

12. Labor laws vary by state but govern the hours during which minors can work

their rate of pay and their rights as employees. The parents receive $5000 for whatever amount of time their kid works for the producers but it is revocable if they do anything the producers don't like. That seems to violate labor laws on its face.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Labor law may or may not apply.

Since the kids aren't actually doing anything.

[KurtNYC]

18. Of course labor laws apply - this is performance for pay (eg $5000)

Any contract which violates federal or local laws is invalid (eg. unenforceable) with respect to all such clauses.


The New Mexico attorney general's office said Thursday that in light of the controversy around the show, it is reviewing the complaints raised by a parent and the question of whether it violated the state's child labor laws. There is also a dispute over allegations that "Kid Nation" producers denied state inspectors access to the production site during filming in April and early May.

...
When the inspector asked to see the children's work permits, the official was asked to wait while producers wrapped filming for the day. After waiting for an hour or so, the inspector decided to come back again a few days later. By that time, CBS lawyers had corresponded with other state officials about the work permit issue. The specifics of what was determined in that correspondence are in dispute and are among the issues the attorney general's office is reviewing, Sisneros said.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117970788.html?categoryid=1236&cs=1

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. There isn't any performance.

:shrug:

[KurtNYC]

25. well they dont get the money if they dont perform

so your statement is not accurate.

and New Mexico agrees:
When a state labor inspector, Abe Tapia, visited the ranch on April 13, to see if the production had work permits for the children, he was told to wait in a production crew dining area for a producer. After waiting for about an hour, Mr. Tapia was told that the show's executive producer, Tom Forman, would not be available that day.

Mr. Tapia returned to the site the following day and on April 16, but was stopped at the front gate and not allowed onto the property.

[kirby]

5. Blame the parents!

Yes the media sucks, but these idiotic parents exploited their children for a reality show. Where is the outrage at their pathetic lack of parenting skills.

[supernova]

8. Yes, thank you

You have to be completely moronic to participate in this mess to start with.

[slampoet]

27. Most parents don't give a damn about their own children's rights within the family

why should they be different with strangers?


Every one of the parents who signed this should get a visit from Child Services.

Also this is a perfect thing to bring up in custody battles too..

[Bucky]

33. I think you should question the scientific accuracy of the study you based that statement on

"Most parents don't give a damn about their children's rights in the family"? Isn't that a bit of an overstatement?

[Occulus]

24. On the other hand, consider their economic background

I wonder how mixed that breakdown is. If they're all from wealthy families, then yes, by all means blame the parents if something goes wrong, but I'm willing to lay money on at least one family grabbing the money because they need it. This is more than likely to be one of the younger kids who doesn't yet comprehend the broader social ramifications of their own economic conditions.

In either case, this is crossing the line for "reality" shows. Not that I ever watched them or cared about them; I personally think it could be a good concept, one that could inspire social change, but they're all currently so poorly executed and focused on "making celebrities" that I just don't give a damn, usually.

In this case, though, I do. There's a big difference between child actors working on set and a frank acknowledgment by way of legal contract that there's a possibility the child could die. This shit needs to be shut down, and I'm never watching CBS again for any reason.

[AlCzervik]

10. this show sounds like Lord of flies.

[Gormy Cuss]

30. Get out of my head.

That's exactly what it sounds like to me,just repackaged and updated for the 21st century.

[AlCzervik]

31. heaven help that groups "Piggy".

[VenusRising]

11. Here is an article that gives more info.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-et-kidnation27aug27,1,2448150.story?coll=la-entnews-tv&ctrack=3&cset=true

[Niche]

15. Please note: there are child labor laws here in CA

which apply for productions casting children. Legally the production has to hire social workers to watch children on set (i.e. turn around, meals, rest, study, etc.) That includes reality programming which is scripted.

I do think it is a shame that parents sign such agreements though.

[Golden Raisin]

16. Why doesn't the American media

just cut the intermediate steps and jump straight to live, gladiatorial combat to the death, with actual slayings? There could be an audience participation "thumbs up/thumbs down" segment. That is where this is all heading. From 'Leave it to Beaver' to 'Lord of the Flies' in only 50 years!

[rocktivity]

26. Better yet, let's REALLY cut to the chase

and set up cameras all over Iraq and Afghanistan?

:headbang:
rocknation

[Xithras]

17. I REALLY don't get the controversy with this show...unless it's guerrilla marketing by CBS

Stir up a fakeroversy to get people watching, or somesuch thing.

As I see it, this is really no different than sending your kid away to summer camp. You have to sign all the standard liability waivers, and give the camp the right to act with a parents authority if needed. FWIW, none of these waivers apply if you can prove negligence (that right cannot be signed away). My older boy went to a 3 week summer camp last year, and I signed most of the same rights away. If you don't want to do that, don't turn your kids over to other people for extended periods.

The other common objection to this show is that the kids will be "neglected". Umm...who do you think will be running the cameras? Do you really believe the dozens of adults it takes to run a show like this are simply going to stand by while children are being raped or are starving? That would be criminally prosecutable in all 50 states, and CBS knows that. While the kids were free to do their own thing for 40 days, they were never alone or unsupervised.

The last objection to this is that it's a violation of child labor laws. I'd agree if they were acting, or if they were doing any labor. From what I've seen, their labor consisted of little more than covering survival necessities (like cooking and cleaning) and playing games. They weren't building structures, or digging wells, or even reciting lines for a TV show. They were just doing their own thing for a month or so. The fact that cameras were rolling on it really doesn't bother me.

Personally, I'm curious to see what kind of society kids would build without the intervention of adults.

[KurtNYC]

28. "without the intervention of adults?"

We won't know that since this show was design, edited , finance and directed by adults.

There is nothing real about reality television -- it is staged entertainment. When they use adults they give them alcohol and keep the "Amarosas" on the show because the show has to have conflict. This isn't kids free to do whatever they want. A glance over the contract will show that producers controlled the activity of the kids, their money, their clothes, their other possessions, access to medical care and parents.

Do these children have no rights? Their parents can sell them off for $5000 and they could be killed, traumatized or infected.

[rocktivity]

36. I certainly wouldn't send my kid to a camp that didn't feature organized supervision

by qualified adults. If CBS is suggesting that there was no such supervision when there really was, that's false advertising, not "guerrilla marketing." And if CBS means to make money off this show, why shouldn't the kids get a piece of the action?

:headbang:
rocknation

[Xithras]

37. I was a Boy Scout as a kid. We didn't have organized supervision either.

The Scoutmaster was only there to stop us if we tried something that might injure us. All activities, leadership, and even medical care was provided by other scouts.

And heck, the only qualification my Scoutmaster had was that he sired one of the other boys in my troop. I think he was a truck driver otherwise.

FWIW, I tend to encourage independent thinking in my kids, and WOULD send them to camps that involve self-supervision and minimal adult interaction. Kids don't grow mentally unless they're given responsibility.

Then again, I'm a pretty unconventional father. My older son and two friends dropped a canoe in the river behind my home a few weekends ago and canoed several miles downriver. When they were done, they paddled and portaged their way upriver again back home. The oldest of the three boys was 11, and there were no adults with them. Some parents would freak out over that, but I abhor coddling parents and believe that kids are more than capable of organizing themselves when needed. I was proud of him.

I guess that's why I like the concept of the show so much. I have no idea if I'll like the implementation. I should mention that I liked the CONCEPT of Survivor originally too...it was sold as a reality show where people are left on an island and had to survive using their wits. I pictured Survivorman meets Gilligans Island. What we ended up with was a lot different (I HATED Survivor). The optimist in me is hoping they took a more hands-off approach with Kid Nation. The realist in me understands that this is probably going to suck just because it's a reality show, and "reality" is the last thing they want on your TV.

[misanthrope]

39. Ever read "Lord of the Flies?"**nm

**

[Xithras]

40. Yep, loved the book.

You'll note that I never advocated leaving kids completely unsupervised for days on end. Even as a scout we always had at least one adult around to tell us to knock it off if we started going too far or getting too rowdy.

[Occulus]

19. That contract cannot possibly be legally enforcable

PLEASE, DU layers, tell me that contract isn't legal.

Regardless- I'm not watching anything on CBS ever again, period.

[soothsayer]

35. it would never hold up. most contracts are not worth the paper they're written on

[Giant Robot]

22. I do not plan on watching the show for many reasons

First it holds no interest for me, and it borders on being sick in some way. Cruel maybe. And of course I do not want to provide viewership to something I find objectionable.

But also I have the nagging feeling I am going to see something neglectful or some mistreatment of the youth. I don't want that to become a standard of entertainment. And I don't want to have to find out which child protective services branch I need to report this too, because I think that would come up in my head and heart if I watched it too.

This is an awful experiment and I intend to spend very little more time on it.

[zalinda]

29. Okay, I'm betting that all of the kids begged

their parents to let them be on the show. All reality shows "audition" their participants with video tapes. They have to be inventive and eye catching to get a second view from the producers. Kids are not idiots, they are more capable than most here seem to believe. It is an interesting social experiment. Would it be Lord of the Flies, or something much more civilized? I believe it would be much more civilized. There are many kids in this world who are living on the street and surviving, some as young as 2. Usually the older kids bring in the younger kids and take care of them. Should this be happening? No, but it shows that humans are basically good, and will try to survive without hurting one another.

These kids will be supervised 24 hours a day. Yes, shots will be edited in such a way to portray drama, but that is TV. What these kids will be hoping to prove is that they are not stupid, that they can take care of themselves, which is what we all have tried to prove to our parents at one time or another. To think that these parents are "making" these kids do this show, is laughable. Would I have done it when I was a kid, you bet I would have. Just like any of these "reality" shows, medical aid is right there and available. Hollywood has grow up with the Jackie Coogan laws and do take care of their youngsters.

I really think that Lord of the Flies is the myth, and these kids will prove it.

zalinda

[Bucky]

32. New Idea for reality show: "Drop my Kid in a Trash Compacter" (please sign this waiver first)

How is child abandonment considered entertainment?

I assume the next series coming out will be "Hey Doctor, Why is My Untreated Blister Festering?"

[LuckyLib]

34. From the first ad for this, it gave me the creeps. As an educator and parent,

I believe the producers and network are bonkers, and right behind them are the nutball parents who will do ANYTHING for 15 minutes of fame -- even shilling their children.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Have not heard of this show, but it sounds awful. Lord of the Flies stuff