Here's an interesting question...is it morally wrong to subdue likely agents provocateur?

[BreweryYardRat]

In response to this thread, where the Quebec cops planted rock-toting undercover cops at a protest: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1671292

I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to knock the bastards down (or out) and hogtie them, then hand them over to their fellow cops. These guys are going to be the excuse for the worst elements of the police force (since riot cops seem to be the ones most likely to be corrupt/in it for the violence) to abuse their power and authority, and quite possibly get people severely injured or killed in the resulting swarm of baton-wielding cops. Additionally, they're violating your right to free speech/assembly. It's hardly "free" if the authorities have someone there to give them an excuse to crack down on you. As far as I'm concerned, that means you have carte blanche to knock their corrupt, un-American asses out.

The police shouldn't be able to legally press charges against you or rush the crowd (although the legal aspects may not stop them), because you can say something to the effect of: "I was just making a citizen's arrest and saving you the trouble, officers. How could I know he was an undercover cop?" Just yell "Citizen's Arrest!" as you drop the guy, and you ought to be fine.

And in the (unlikely) event of subduing a legitimate (if imbecilic) protester -- well, things haven't quite gotten bad enough that everyone should be taking up whatever weapons they can get hold of. Peaceful protests still have a chance to make an impact, so anyone stupid enough to try violence at this point in time needs to learn a lesson.

[rfranklin]

1. If you do that you will be charged with false arrest or worse....

Hey, are YOU a provocateur?

[BreweryYardRat]

4. False arrest? Care to explain how?

So far as I know (which, admittedly, isn't much), the citizen's arrest is still on the books as a legal measure.

And no, I'm no provocateur -- you can believe me or not. Just a headcase looking for a way to punish the corrupt.

[ThomCat]

2. No, it's not morally wrong.

If you see that someone is about to provoke violence then you are perfectly within your right to prevent it. If that requires tieing them someplace until the police can come and get them, then so be it.

And if that person happens to be a cop, then it's justice.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Huh? Forget this citizen's arrest stuff and get...

video of a rockthrower and "nonviolently" subduing him without breaking any laws yourself.

And get a damn good lawyer.

[BreweryYardRat]

5. Care to explain how I'm supposed to non-violently subdue someone probably twice as muscular as I am?

The undercover cops picked for agent provocateur duty are going to be the ones who work out a LOT.

The Quebec protesters had the advantage of numbers, so the guys who first spotted the cops were (as I understand it) able to convince their fellows to force them over toward the police line by sheer pressure.

I'm horrible with convincing large numbers of people, and I don't belong to any organized group. Which means that strategy is ruled out.

But I could probably get one or two folks to tape me.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Did I say you do this alone? Did I mean that you actually...

have to subdue him if you can't? Just stop him from throwing the rock in some other way A bunch of people with cameras hanging out while he's getting ready to throw might do it.

You don't have to bag him, just expose and embarass whoever's behind this. Besides, if you let him throw the rock and injure someone while you could have stopped him, where's your moral authority then?