Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".

[madfloridian]

Here comes Bill Nelson and the posse.

They seem to forget that Florida is the one who did not follow the rules.

I am so disgusted with them.

Florida Dems to Dean, Back off

The members of the delegation, who have met privately with Dean in an effort to fend off a clash, say in the letter it was their "understanding the Democratic National Committee intended to satisfactorily resolve any potential rules problems arising from the decision by several states to move up their 2008 primary dates.

"Yet it was reported just today the DNC still appears poised to assault this basic right," says the letter signed by Sen. Bill Nelson, along with Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Alcee Hastings, Kathy Castor and Kendrick Meek.

"If true - and if the DNC strips Florida of all or some of its delegates to the national convention - we would ask the appropriate legal officials to determine whether this could violate any state or federal laws governing and protecting individual voting rights."

Furthermore, the letter says the delegation will recommend that Florida Democrats "send the party's entire delegation to the national convention in Denver next year anyway."

They are going to have the DNC investigated by...whom? And charged with...what?

Enough already.

[madfloridian]

1. Seriously, folks. Who does investigate "voting rights."? Gonzo?

I really am serious.

And will the DNC committee folks go to jail if found guilty?

Talk about all the slippery slopes our party is going down lately...yikes.

:wow:

[EST]

10. Dean threatened the Florida bunch because of their recalcitrance

surrounding who goes first in the primary. He threatened to disallow their delegates' standing in the all-show-no-substance convention, and thereby their ability to make a show vote for the nominee, who has already been picked. That's the vote they're talking about.
Nobody really gives a damn, outside of the party structure , who votes or doesn't vote, so the Florida delegation's counter threat to involve some kind of law enforcement is an empty gesture.

The convention, and its votes for various positions and procedures, is purely for bragging rights, pecking order, and publicity.

[madfloridian]

12. I know. I guess I am being facetious because it is all so stupid.

So many tragic things happening in our country, and Blll Nelson and posse head after Howard.

It's really strange.

[xxqqqzme]

15. Howard didn't 'threaten' anything

It's DNC rules the FL Dems are ignoring.

[EST]

34. I chose my words poorly.

Dean insisted suggested that the rules should be followed. I remember only vaguely the actual fuss, but it seems to me that Howard did suggest they might be stripped of their delegates.

[madfloridian]

40. He did more than suggest.

.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Will enough glaciers melt to turn FL back into a swamp? nt

[madfloridian]

3. Who are the "appropriate officials"?

to investigate your own party???

I am sick and tired of this state.

[soothsayer]

13. Isn't it already a swamp? I should know, I live in DC (still a swamp)

[porphyrian]

43. Not all of it, but enough to put me minutes from the beach. - n/t

[RB TexLa]

4. Yep, can't have Florida's hispanics, African-Americans and urbanites trying to vote before

rural whites in Iowa and New Hampshire.

[madfloridian]

5. That statement is offensive. Florida again.

But let Florida go ahead and sue and investigate. I think it would be a lot of fun.

It is almost laughable.

[iconoclastic cat]

8. But a freakin' Jan. primary gives them *less* of a voice!

These early primaries are going to be relegated to straw poll status--not to mention that this gives us even less time to learn all the strengths and weaknesses of the candidates over a longer period. The argument that the early primary is a benefit is based entirely on the misperception that the earlier primaries have a greater say in the nomination.

[mitchtv]

28. THE TIME HAS COME for rotating, regional primaries

this squabbling is counter productive. TS on Iowa and NH and SC

[napi21]

9. Personally, I think this whole "We want to be first" thing is just plain

STUPID! I understand why some states would want to move their primaries up. I've certainly lived in enough States who held their primaries so late that I as a voter KNeW my vote didn't really matter much! But come on people! This is now getting ridiculous!

[madfloridian]

14. I agree.

:hi:

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. What happens in January and February in Florida?

The snowbirds are here in force? Do you think that has anything to do with it?

[napi21]

29. Maybe, but they're still there in February & March too!

As I said, I understand States wanting to more their primary earlier so they can feel relevant. If Fl. is so damn concerned about being relevant, why don't they just join in on shat some are calling super duper tuesday?

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Well, where are these seniors coming from?

I'm just wondering if the idea is to get them to vote in Florida where history has shown it's easier to steal votes?

[napi21]

33. Well, they have been called snow birds. I suspect lots are from NY,

Pa, the NE States, etc.

[hfojvt]

31. the ridiculous thing is how quickly and sheeplike

the rest of the country jumps on the bandwagon of early primary winners. One part of the problem may be that when lower tier candidates drop out, like Vilsack, they throw their support to the front-runner. Not that they have that much influence, but it is like a pile-on.

[EST]

35. Same thing that always drives people, I guess.

Money, power, influence and attention.

How do we fix it?
The primary, here in Illinois, in 2004 was March seventeenth, as I recall. Again, as in other years, I asked myself why was I even bothering to vote in a primary that was already decided, other than as a cheerleader. As in other years, it occurred to me that there should be a primary three months before the general, with all the states voting in the same week.

Then there is the argument that says spacing the primaries out gives a lot of voters the opportunity to learn more about the candidates and how big a whopper they are willing to tell to get the job. That would argue for two states per week to hold primaries right up 'til the general. Or whatever.

I think, maybe, the solution would be to make the primaries whenever anyone wants, but elect the nominee by popular vote, so the popular vote just keeps increasing but the candidates don't actually win a state's primary. There would be no "states" to win, with the candidates running until their money runs out or they're so far behind in the popular vote that they drop out.

[Sapere aude]

6. it looks like a fight between FL Dems and the DNC not the state of FL.

[madfloridian]

7. I think most people here know that.

So I am not going to change the subject line.

[madfloridian]

11. As our soldiers die in Iraq...as our phones are tapped with expanded Bush rights.

The Florida Dems swoop in to save us all by .....investigating the DNC.

Calling Gonzo.

[Malikshah]

16. What Florida Dems? All we have down here is Republican Light

The "leadership" of the DEMS here is crap.

McBride?
Davis?

C'mon.

A closeted Repub is now our governor and he doesn't even have the cojones to censure Naugle (oh, a Democratic Mayor of Ft. Lauderdale who's aligned himself with the likes of Dozier and Folger to terrorize the GLBT community)

It's long past due to write of the Dem "leadership" in this state.

Wasserman-Schultz is the only Rep I can stomach at the moment.

[madfloridian]

17. Amen. I just got off the phone with Nelson's aide.

Well, I never got my question answered. I asked who will be called on to do the investigation, and I said don't say Gonzales or I will laugh out loud.

He did not know, but first he said internal party investigation. I said which...the rules committee that meets Saturday and is furious with Florida?

He did not know.

[HockeyMom]

18. SO tempted to register as an Independent

in Florida. I just moved here. I don't trust them.

[Malikshah]

20. Don't-- I'm hardly the leftiest progressive, but the "ldrship" down here

is so in bed with their Republican overlords.

So very much the Stockholm Syndrome. They are an embarrassment to the Democratic Party.

Oh for the days of Graham...

I, for one, will never forgive them for turning on Reno and putting up that yahoo McBride-- something could have been done in Florida had Jeb lost his last term. So much could have been done...

[SoCalDem]

19. Gee , with "friends" like this, who even needs republican enemies?

:eyes:

[Debi]

21. That's just silly - yes I said silly

And what voting rights will be violated? Everyone is going to get to vote - all their votes are going to count - awarding of delegates is a party proceedure, not a tasked performed by the Secretary of State or Governor. And all delegates will count in the end anyway.

Once the nominee is determined he/she will announce that all the states' delegates are reinstated at the national convention (really, who wants to be the nominee with states pissed off at them?) the DNC (and Howard Dean) has lost control of this party. Florida will go when it darn well pleases, take its punishment and then laugh as all their delegates take their seats at the national convention.

What a mess.

[madfloridian]

23. The right wing dems have control over the party...not the DNC

That's the problem, has been the problem, and it's why we being eavesdropped on with Dems blessing,why our soldiers are dying in Iraq...why we have no health care.

[madfloridian]

22. Best I can find out via phone....it's a bunch of BS and loud noise

because no one is able to tell me anything about the kind of investigation.

Most offices of those who signed that are not even aware the DNC rules committee is meeting Saturday. They are pouting over the meeting with Dean today, I guess, which I gather was not productive for Florida.

Two offices agreed that if they pursued this course it would end up in the AGs office. They agree with me of the outrageous sense this gives. Gonzales investigating the DNC...how pathetic.

I am especially disappointed in Kathy Castor.

This is pure and simple power play. The aides seem to be embarrassed overall...as they should be.

[madfloridian]

24. Here's the letter. They make me sick. Power play by Nelson and Florida.

Pretty lame to say someone is taking their voting rights away. Hey, guys, in 04 I did not get to vote until March 9th when my candidate was out of the race. When I complained, I was told it was good to have a later primary.

They have no consideration of the other states involved.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/08/congressional-d.html

The Honorable Howard Dean
Chairman
Democratic National Committee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003

Dear Chairman Dean:

It has been our understanding the Democratic National Committee intended to satisfactorily resolve any potential rules problems arising from the decision by several states to move up their 2008 primary dates.

Florida - as directed by the state Legislature and signed into law by Gov. Charlie Crist - advanced its primary to Jan 29. Our goal now is to protect the right of every citizen to vote and to have that vote count.

Yet it was reported just today the DNC still appears poised to assault this basic right. According to ABC News and other news publications, the DNC may sanction Florida if the state's Democratic Party doesn't make the new primary a nonbinding straw poll - or in effect, a "meaningless . . . beauty contest."

If true - and, if the DNC strips Florida of all or some of its delegates to the national convention - we would ask the appropriate legal officials to determine whether this could violate any state or federal laws governing and protecting individual voting rights

Furthermore, we would recommend to the chairman and leadership of the Florida Democratic Party that they send the party's entire delegation to the national convention in Denver next year anyway.

It always has been a priority of our party to protect the right of every eligible American to vote. We would hope the DNC will continue to honor this right, when the Rules and Bylaws Committee meets Saturday in Washington.

As has been discussed privately on a couple of previous occasions, there is an easy compromise to resolve this situation: the states with administrative officers legally empowered to do so can move their primaries up seven days from when they were originally planned. This would keep the same sequence and timing for all the states in the presidential selection process.

Sincerely,

Sen. Bill Nelson
Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, Democratic Chair, Florida Congressional Delegation
Rep. Kendrick Meek
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Rep. Kathy Castor

Posted by: | August 23, 2007 at 02:19 PM

They don't even know who the appropriate legal authorities are until pinned down that it would be the attorney generals' office and then they sort of have to laugh. Pathetic.

And the paragraph that says they always thought the DNC would work things out is not true. From the beginning he said the rules would be enforced.

Governor Dean said the Florida drama was not yet over and he was right.

[madfloridian]

25. Alrighty then, I must be wrong.

Because Daily Kos says it is a very good thing.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Isn't it funny when Florida politicians start thinking about state and federal regulations

when it's their rights they want to protect? All the other times, they're just winging it playing "try to please the crony."

[graywarrior]

30. Bill Nelson, traitor. Sells out the people by voting for the bankruptcy bill.

He can go to hell.

[BlooInBloo]

36. It's nothing but bluster. Dean isn't gonna strip FL or MI of their delegates - lol!

[Debi]

37. Even if he tries - the nominee will fully restore them by convention time n/t

[BlooInBloo]

38. He won't.

[Debi]

48. I agree - but I do think he'll try. n/t

[madfloridian]

50. Dean has other states counting on him.

I think he will stick to his guns as much as he can. In the end, as we all knew...the big money power Dems will win.

They always do.

[Debi]

52. Dean was warned this would happen and ignored advice to that regard n/t

[madfloridian]

54. He did not make the rules.

But that's ok, it was nice having a chairman who cared at least for a little while.

[Debi]

56. So he was never in control? He was the Chair of the party

He didn't attend ANY of the meetings? He didn't give ANY input? If all he ever was was a figurehead then he was really never Chair, was he?

[madfloridian]

57. No, he is just pretending to be chair.

There was a procedure on how all this was arrived at. It has been posted, it is quite accessible online and at the DNC now I think.

I know you think you are being funny, but you are not. It was a committee appointed by Terry McAuliffe that made the rules, and the state members voted on them.

[Debi]

69. I am not trying to be funny - I am very angry at Dean

Like I said before he was offered assistance and advice and naively ignored it. He thought everyone would play nice and obey the rules, he was warned differently way back in 2005. Again he just ignored those warnings. PM me if you want proof.

[madfloridian]

39. Come Saturday, the committee meets.

The rules are there. If they give in to Florida, hubby and I are considering our options.

It is not funny to me, not the way Bill Nelson treats us, and his office treats us. To see Kathy Castor doing this is sad.

Not funny. But not about Dean. About my state being just plain stupid.

[madfloridian]

41. If it is all bluster, if nothing matters, if Florida rules supreme again...

then tell me again why we should keep on keeping on?

[BlooInBloo]

45. Whoa. I said, suggested, or implied that "nothing matters" *where* again?

[madfloridian]

49. I said it when I said it was not funny this time. Florida Dems are lying.

They are blaming others for what is their own fault.

[Cameron27]

42. I just caught this, did you see it?

"Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards says he won't let his party's efforts to control the primary calendar dictate where he campaigns.

Edwards told The Associated Press in Las Vegas yesterday he's running a national campaign.

The former North Carolina senator says it's not his job to make the primary schedule rules.

Edwards' spoke after the Michigan Senate approved a measure to move the state's nominating contest to January 19th, ahead of Nevada and South Carolina.

The Democratic National Committee has threatened to dock delegates from states that jump ahead of its first four states, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. Any candidate who campaigns in a state that breaks the rules is threatened with losing delegates."


http://www.wlos.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.nc/29b69db2-www.wlos.com.shtml

I don't envy Dean right now and I don't understand how anyone can fault him when these rules were actually voted on and appproved.

[Debi]

46. It would be beneficial if the candidates decided to stick to the rules

even if the states won't. The candidates should (as a group and both Democrat and Republican) say that they will compete in the states as voted on in the DNC Calendar Commission. That way the states that leap-frog get ignored by the campaigns until later down the calendar. If the candidates aren't in the state the media won't be there either. Florida was in line to get plenty of attention (as was Michigan) on the dates the DNC originally set for those states. I guess Edwards doesn't believe in the rules?

[madfloridian]

47. It is being done to undermine. Michigan is doing it now also.

I am surprised at Edwards, but after today I find myself not giving a damn who is president or anything else.

[Debi]

51. Edwards comments are hurting him in Iowa...

http://blogs.dmregister.com/?p=8196

[Cameron27]

53. I'm not sure why it's happening, but it's not going to help

the party to flaunt the DNC's rules. Like I said, Dean's unfairly taking the heat for something that was decided by a vote.

[madfloridian]

55. Well, see, there are many on this thread who don't even know that.

Even though it has been explained. Florida has done a good job at propaganda, and people think it is his fault.

It's the American way.

[porphyrian]

44. Nelson is a conservative tool.

Unfortunately, the only other option was a republicunt.

[cobalt1999]

58. Legal question.

As I understand it, the states legally control their own voting rights. So, If the Florida legislature voted for it and the Governor signed it into Florida law...what legal right does the DNC have to strip those votes from counting?

I'm not debating that they broke DNC rules, but asking do DNC rules constitutionally supersede Florida law? Does Dean and the DNC have a legal leg to stand on, or where the DNC rules more of a "gentleman's agreement"?

[madfloridian]

59. I assume the DNC can withhold delegates per their rules.

They can't stop the vote, but they can apply the rules about delegates.

The point to me is that they are accusing Dean and the DNC of not letting the votes of Florida count.

They are LYING. They are the ones who did not follow the rules that were voted on.

[cobalt1999]

60. So there is no legal reason to stop them from not counting the delegates?

I know they didn't follow the rules, I just didn't know how constitutional the rules are. As long as everyone follows them, it's not a issue, but can the rules to deny the delegates actually survive a court challenge?

[madfloridian]

61. Well, you want the courts involved in party disputes? That's scary.

I find that upsetting.

I guess if you want the government making sure the party rules suit them....then what can I say?

That's kind of sad you feel that way. Dean is so much better a man than those who end up investigating him.

[cobalt1999]

62. Where did I say I wanted anything!?!

I'm simply asking a question to understand the legal grounds each party has?

Calm down! Read the posts without projecting your emotions or assuming something, because you just made a whooping big and wrong assumption.

If you don't know, so be it. I'm still curious if the DNC has legal footing to do this.

sheesh.

[madfloridian]

63. "but can the rules to deny the delegates actually survive a court challenge?"

Those are your words.

No, I am very angry that you would even agree with the court system we have in this country getting involved.

Those are your words.

[cobalt1999]

64. Those words are a question! Not a statement of desire.

Can't you read?

Where did I say I WANTED anything? Personally, I think it is a bad idea (note: this is the first time I've given my opinion).

Now, if you don't know the answer...FINE! Stop attributing intent to my simple question.

Do the DNC rules have legal standing over the Florida election laws? What's it take to ask a simple question around here?

[madfloridian]

65. Perhaps you are the one who needs to calm down.

Think about what you asked. The answers are there. I am backing off.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

67. That's a personal attack.

.

[madfloridian]

68. Strange argumentative post by the FDP at Kos tonight.

From Daily Kos tonight by the FDP staff. It is the letter Karen Thurman sent out tonight for everyone to hound the DNC.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/23/22449/0609

"Remember, the Democratic Congressional members fired this warning shot in the hopes that they would never actually have to ask for a voting rights probe.

And know that if the DNC sanctions Florida, the Republican Party will no doubt file for an investigation. How terrible would it be for the GOP to be the Party to stand up for the voting rights of minorities?
-FDP Staff"

They are going to push it hard, I think.

More:

"And to be clear, it would be the DNC that would put itself in the position of being in a court venue. Again, Florida has several counties covered under the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Would you rather Democrats bring up the potential for legal action now? Or let the Republicans come up with that idea later? It would be terribly unfortunate if the DNC issued the sanctions, and the Republican Party ended up being the one to stand up for the Voting Rights Act. This is a very serious concern that the FDP is not comfortable with.

-FDP Staff"

That sounds like a direct threat. They appear to talking a lot with the Republican party here.

They seem to want it to go to court.