Misogyny bares its teeth on the internet

[atommom]

A woman's place isn't in the kitchen these days but some malcontents are trying to make sure that it's not on the web either. The internet is proving to be a hostile place for women.

Death threats, rape threats, verbal abuse, condescending and unwelcome comments about looks and intelligence are all par for the course for many female web users.

Last year a University of Maryland study found that web users with female pseudonyms are 25 times more likely to be harassed online than users with male or ambiguous pseudonyms. And, according to haltabuse.org, women make up 70 per cent of the victims of cyber harassment and stalking.

An internet war is being fought against the online feminist community by a hive of crackers and tech geeks who call themselves "Anonymous".

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/misogyny-bares-its-teeth-on-internet/2007/08/20/1187462171087.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

http://tinyurl.com/yp5kr8

[crikkett]

1. This is so way out of proportion

nothing else to say really.

[ThomCat]

2. This is no surprise. Women have been talking about this,

posting about it, complaining about it for years.

[Katherine Brengle]

3. That shit gets really ugly.

I think I tried to post about it a week or so ago but no one really read it.

[bobbolink]

79. Yes, you did try, and yes, it's not "popular"

The struggles right here on DU are shocking.

Really, just shocking.

Thanks for trying.

Oh, and since you have your full name here, I hope you don't get attacked at home like I did.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. I did my own experiment when...

I had an AOL account and invented JenifferXXX who was hot and ready.

OK, she wasn't for serious talk, but just to see what that hotties see.

IMs were coming in at two-second intervals when she was online, which might have been AOL's own system limit. Guys were hitting on me constantly, and sending me pictures. The best one, unfortunately lost, was two blondes doing pullups on his three-foot erection-- spit take on teh keyboard when I saw that one. One day, I dug through all the IMs and found one guy had cybersexed me. If only he knew... This lasted maybe a week, and I just gave up on the whole thing. It was getting stupid and a major waste of time. To say nothing of how wierd I felt about the whole thing.

So, this may not be what all women have to put up with all the time, but it still sucks rocks to have to put up with any amount of this kind of shit.

[havocmom]

19. My AOHell screen name was not provocative at all and I got all sorts of bad IMs

My screen name similar to here. Profile clearly stated middle aged. Constantly treated to a barrage of abuse by some real charmers :eyes:

One jackass was so persistent I broke down and told him guys like him were why I learned to shoot. He then complained about 'dangerous bitches out there'. Yeah, dangerous bitches with no intention of becoming victims or putting up with intimidation and abuse.

edited for accuracy

[Turn CO Blue]

52. I didn't understand the post until I figured out you're male.

I had to re-read a couple of times (I'm slow today)

You've walked a mile in a "hottie's" shoes...

[TheWraith]

5. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

"Death threats, rape threats, verbal abuse, condescending and unwelcome comments about looks and intelligence are all par for the course for many female web users."

Nevermind the fact that studies have shown only a miniscule percentage of women online actually recieve any kind of serious threats, beyond the typical level of internet squabbling.

"Last year a University of Maryland study found that web users with female pseudonyms are 25 times more likely to be harassed online than users with male or ambiguous pseudonyms."

Except that that's not what the study said. It found that female users on CHAT ROOMS were 25 times more likely to receive sexually explicit messages, which is hardly a surprise given the tenor of most of the unmoderated chat rooms online.

"And, according to haltabuse.org, women make up 70 per cent of the victims of cyber harassment and stalking."

A group whose entire premise and funding is based on the idea that cyber stalking is a problem of epidemic proportions.

"An internet war is being fought against the online feminist community by a hive of crackers and tech geeks who call themselves "Anonymous"."

Of course, this is a completely made up idea, since anonymous postings are by definition without an attached identity. So basically, they're just saying this because it makes the story sound more dramatic if there's a "war" involved, and it provides a villian, even if they're pulled out of whole cloth.

[atommom]

7. There is actually a concerted effort by anonymous misogynists to silence women.

A number of feminist sites were recently hit with DOS attacks and flooded with porn postings. I'm sorry you haven't gotten to see the evidence yourself, but this is a real problem.

[Chulanowa]

65. Yes, hacking is a real problem

And a surprising amount of non-feminist sites get hit with it, too. In fact some might call it an epidemic, even.

[The Straight Story]

8. I was writing something similar

But is too early and have not my beer...err coffee...yet and I opted for something more simple.

What are people proposing to do solve it, or is it something that has no solution but can be studied and a topic of discussion?

People treat others like crap on the internet at times, some mean stuff out there. I don't think that is ever going to change though. Note to people using the internet - it's a wild dangerous jungle, watch out for the quicksand and use common sense :)

[Katherine Brengle]

14. It's difficult to do much about it unfortunately --

it's not just your run of the mill annoying troll activity - a lot of these are concerted efforts by groups of tech-saavy hackers who can literally shut down a website without being traceable.

[The Straight Story]

18. Well, here are some thoughts on that

This happens to a variety of groups from people who don't like them. From feminists to fundies there are people who use technology to shut down their sites, and it is wrong across the board.

I just think the discussion is much more broad and instead of narrowing it down to one subset of a group we should look at issues together and find a way to thwart people who misuse technology to attack others (not with words, but with DOS attacks and such - which involves a physical component and not simply verbal).

Anyone, attacking anyone else's website or sending death threats for any reason should be held accountable.

[nashville_brook]

21. so, you're cool with calling out hate as you're not a woman

[TheWraith]

64. Got any proof of that?

I'm always dubious about these stories about the "evil hackers." They tend to be rooted entirely in myth. And I'm not talking about DDOS attacks, which are neither untracable nor particularly sophisticated, and are typically run by one single person. I'd like to see evidence backing a claim that there are hacker groups specifically targeting "feminist" websites.

[nashville_brook]

20. what do you think the purpose of reporting RACIAL hate is?

did we not have to go thru years of "raising consciousness" to get to the point where society frowns on racist speech.

i think you could apply the same thing here. obviously even liberal men who ostensibly love their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters have a difficult time SEEING the problem here.

the author cites a real example of this sort of hatred -- imagine for a second that this passage was directed to a person of color -- lets say a black MAN; or a Persian MAN.

"I'd like to tie you down, take a knife, and slit your throat. I'd penetrate you over and over in all orifices, and create some of my own to stick myself in."

women are expected to roll with these punches. we don't get any back-up from our "brothers." even our "brothers" on DU.

[atommom]

27. Good point. It's hard to address the problem when so many refuse to see it. nt

[The Straight Story]

31. My overall point was - everyone is attacked on the net

We should focus on that and not just which group is doing it to whichever other group.

Hatred is by individuals and groups against others, and instead of looking at it all in a separate manner we should apply the same rules to the problem for all people - you threaten someone, shut their web site down, etc it is wrong and should be dealt with based on the actions taken and not simply because of whom it was against or why.

Is it a problem? Yes - but not just for women, or gays, or fundies, or minorities (and that is hard to define on the net as it is world wide and who is the minority online anyway?).

No need to divide ourselves on this issue - there are thousands of reasons/causes of it across the whole spectrum of people. It is a broad problem and a narrow focus won't fix it - especially when it gets into a blame game like 'men suck online and women are the victims' - the problem is PEOPLE suck, and there are plenty of victims all over the place.

[nashville_brook]

35. ugh -- i've always liked your posts -- saw you as a sensitive person

the fact The Straight Story can't see the problem here only underscores the need to keep talking/educating about this.

[cgrindley]

50. WTF!

the straight story just conceded the point that internet misogyny is real and prevalent... it is a problem... everyone knows it's a problem... but it's one of a great many problems with abuse on the internet or are you telling people complaining about internet racism (and there are only like a billion more racist sites than misogynistic sites on the internet unless you want to count all of porn as misogynistic... please not another porn thread) to take a number?

[Katherine Brengle]

12. There have been organized attacks on feminist blogs on mutliple occasions --

and yes, rape threats, death threats, posting of pornography, and threats to actually physically track down these women bloggers in real life, are not unusual.

If you don't understand a situation, try actually learning about it before assuming you get it.

[TheWraith]

61. I understand perfectly well.

I also understand that it's in the interest of such sites to publicize any threats that they receive, because it gets more attention for them, and the bigger the problem is perceived to be, the more attention.

I'm always surprised that DUers, so cynical a group on most things, will unquestioningly accept stories that fit into their world view.

[blogslut]

15. Anonymous exists

But that threat that the author of the OP cites doesn't sound like them. Also, conflating a /b/ attack with a supposed threat against women on the web is just laughable.

[Lorien]

22. Just check out the comments on any YouTube clip featuring

an attractive woman. "What a worthless whore" "stupid f*cking bitch" and "I hope someone rapes that c*nt" are just a few of the comments you might find. I don't know where all the vitriol and hatred comes from out there, but there certainly is a lot of it!

[Zookeeper]

58. Then there is the ultimate YouTube compliment...

"I'd DO her!!!!"

Wow, really? I'm sure she'd be honored, but wouldn't your hand get jealous?

:sarcasm:

[TheWraith]

63. So the existence of a handful of morons proves a vast misogynist internet conspiracy? NT

[Lorien]

77. Did I say that?

No, I did not mention a vast conspiracy. However, the internet has more than it's share of misogynists. Far more than a handful, in fact.

[TheWraith]

108. The entire world has more than its share of assholes, of every race, creed, sex, and color.

To present it as being somehow being a black and white issue of one group against another is disingenuous at best.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. As opposed to any one featuring a guy attractive or not......

.....that usually ends up with comments like "U R So gay" and "This dudes a total fag".

[Warpy]

26. If you don't think this is a problem, try an experiment

Sign on with the mildest female name you can think of, something with "mom" in it. Sign on to a chat anywhere: Yahoo, IRC, AOL. Just sit there, say nothing but "hi" and do nothing. Just wait for it.

The problem is out there and it is pervasive. Now it is getting organized, and that is very scary to a lot of women.

Why are so many men so hostile and vicious? Why is there such a deep seated and pervasive hatred of half the human race? What the hell is WRONG with these guys?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

82. Log on with a profile saying you are a 12 year old boy

It might take a little longer, but it won't be any less disturbing.

[Warpy]

87. That's seduction, completely different

There is something deep in the psyches of many men that make them want to threaten random women anonymously.

These men are pure, unadulterated evil and you probably know quite a few of them.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

89. It is? I bet the vast majority of women online get "seduction"....

....before they get threats....

But I'd also say log onto almost any chatroom with a screen name like "Obama '08" or "Hilary for Prez" or "ImpeachBush" and watch what happens as far as the threats go.

It's no less disturbing to me.....

[NashVegas]

98. People In Random Chats Act Like Idiots

You really can't expect very much out of chat with no particular topic, or moderator.

[Gormy Cuss]

42. True, the U. Maryland study was limited to chat room attacks

but the results showed a startling difference by gender-specificity of the username even when the "user" was a silent bot. The female user names generated significantly more attacks than the male or ambiguous ones.
http://www.enre.umd.edu/content/rmeyer-assessing.pdf

[TheWraith]

62. Sexually explicit messages, not "attacks"

And that sort of specificity is surprising only to somebody who's never set foot in unmoderated chat rooms, which are typically infested with all the half smart teenage boys you could ever imagine.

[Gormy Cuss]

66. Malicious attacks, including but not limited to sexually explicit messages.

Their language, not mine.

For the purposes of the experiments conducted in this paper, the definition of an attack was restricted to malicious behavior that could occur through IRC. This way, it would be clear that the attack was a result of IRC activity and directed towards a particular bot or user. The set of behaviors defined as attacks included attempts to send a file to the user, attempted DCC chats with a user, malicious private messages sent to a user, and links sent to a user.

The results are based on that definition.

[Terran]

74. questions

What is a "DCC chat"?

Why is an attempt to send a link or a file considered malicious? If that's malicious, then all spam email is malicious.

Just to be clear, I am a male and I play a female character on a well known MMORPG, and I do see some extremely ridiculous behavior by some males, mostly young boys, in the game. But a lot of it is also simply a greater degree of attention paid to me by guys who think I'm female and are clearly hoping in some vague way to become friendly on that basis.

I would be interested in seeing links or other proof of cyber attacks against feminist sites, because that would really worry me.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. When you have a chance, read the pdf at the link posted in #42.

It explains the terms used. In the context of this discussion "attack" in the study doesn't mean only insults or unwarranted sexual attention from strangers -- it covers a whole range of unsolicited traffic.

[NashVegas]

97. IIRC DCC Chat Is a Private Sub-Chat

It's been a long time.

FWIW, I think this whole story is kind of silly. My prior (haven't been on in a long time) experience is that guys will try to pull you aside (DCC chat or other private messages) to see if you're up for some flirting. If you respond well, they continue, if you're not into it, you get left alone.

Many of the younger men (14-25ish) I got to know when I was gaming (Utopia) were either nice kids who *really* needed a 'mom' type figure in their lives, or really bitter kids who needed the same and gave up.

[TheWraith]

107. The definitions are pretty bullshit-laden.

A "DCC chat" is simply a form of direct private communication. Not an "attack" of any sort.

Links and files are sometimes malicious, i.e. viruses, but mostly just spam. These are done by unmanned "bot" programs, and have absolutely no connection to the perceived gender of the user--they simply see a potential target.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Good Rebuttal. You And StraightStory Below Put It All In The Proper Perspective.

Good job you two!

[Mushroom]

100. LOL Atta Boy!

A couple of posters retell the story and you'll swear to it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. I Think They Did A Great Job In Putting It Into A Reasonable Perspective.

If that bothers you, well too bad so sad.

[The Straight Story]

6. OK....what is the proposed method to fix the problem?

Or did I miss that?

[nashville_brook]

39. we aren't allowed to talk about this until we have a solution

yeah -- there's a standard by which to conduct your entire political life. that's a pretty high standard for allowable criticism.

[Terran]

75. non-answer

Who's preventing you from talking about it? :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

9. American men: a nation of cowards.

[The Straight Story]

10. Actually, I think it is the illegals on the net doing the job us American men won't do

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

11. BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[mudesi]

13. It's the Internet

There are racists, pedophiles, and psychotics on the Internet too. This isn't really news.

Edit: I take this back.

[Katherine Brengle]

16. Some of these assholes have gone so far as to

track down a feminist blogger's identity and make false reports to the police and child services about her - that's pretty serious.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cgrindley]

32. Who, exactly, has defended internet misogyny?

Your post is broadbrush criticism of an entire group and is unacceptable.

[nashville_brook]

38. then step up to the plate -- lets see a statement of solidarity

a statement of solidarity that doesn't include any sort of qualification.

[mudesi]

40. I take back what I said above

I won't edit it, but I'll take it back here.

This article seemed like a statement of the obvious to me at first, but after thinking about it for a few minutes now, I realize that my being male gives me an inherent bias. I think we all need to acknowledge our biases if we are to be truly objective.

Had an article been written about the prevalence of pedophilia on the Internet, I may not have posted a "so what" kind of response. This article is simply a statement of truth that I think we all need to acknowledge in the same way that we acknowledge the other horrible things such as racism and homophobia on the Internet.

I have checked myself. Not giving an article about misogyny the same kind of weight as an article on racism, homophobia, etc, is misogynistic in itself.

[Sapere aude]

45. Being an ass hole on line does not have the repercussions of being an ass hole face to face with

someone.

People with integrity would not be and ass hole on line to women or anyone for that matter. Ass holes are more free to be ass holes on line so I can see why they do it.

But these ass hole in no way represent the millions and millions of men who are on line daily. Without limiting the freedom of the net you can't get rid of the ass holes.

Good and bad exist side by side in this world.

[lonestarnot]

90. The world needs the nuts, sluts and deviants.

We'd be boring otherwise.

[atommom]

46. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

:thumbsup:

[wicket]

69. TY

:hug:

[nashville_brook]

81. wow -- thank you! this is/you are DU at it's best -- thank you for saying so

it's why we're here -- to raise consciousness to our issues and allow ourselves to have our mind changed.

[Sapere aude]

44. Your way or the highway. Sounds a lot like Bush!

[cgrindley]

47. Ooooookay

internet misogyny is bad.. is that good enough? Where, precisely, did I say that it wasn't bad?

I believe that I said:

fucking d'uh, of course the internet is full of fucking misogynists... it's full of fucking racists and furries and zoos and a million other things that shouldn't be as well... but to expect that the internet wouldn't be full of such miscreants is hopelessly naive. It's also hopelessly naive to think that the internet can ever be reformed.

[mudesi]

51. Think about how you would have replied to a thread about anything else

cgrindley, I did the same thing as you. I posted a "well, duh" type response.

Now imagine if a thread is started on sexual predators that prey on children online. Would you reply with "duh"? Sure, an article about pedophilia online is a statement of an obvious fact, but it is how we, as men, respond to the threads about misogyny that is at issue here. We are showing our misogynistic tendencies when we post these dismissive responses to women's issues.

Open your eyes to your own biases. It's enlightening.

[cgrindley]

54. How is recognizing the obvious existence of the color blue

being dismissive of the color blue?

[mzmolly]

43. Isn't it thought? Shows you how far we've yet to go.

:(

[smirkymonkey]

78. How do we know that DU's men and these bloggers aren't some

of the same people. YOu can't convince me that more than about 5 men on all of DU actually give a shit about what women put with from the weaker, more pathetic men out there. I never see anything but hostility from the men on this board anytime a discussion about feminism or discrimination against women comes up. They're always so afraid it going to translate into somebody taking their porn away. bwaaaaaaaaaa :cry:

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Can we create an "I hate men" board?

It'd sure cut down on the flamewars in GD.

[smirkymonkey]

96. See what I mean?

Speak your truth and get called a man hater.

Show me a thread where the majority of the comments from men on this topic are supportive and understanding and I will accept the label of man hater, because that would mean I was wrong and unfairly judging the men that pounce on these threads to beat down the women who are trying raise some consciousness about these issues. However, you can't because they don't exist.

I don't hate men, I hate men who are misogynistic assholes. The fact that there are so many of them isn't my fault. Why do men always blame women for everything? Sheesh.

[Darth_Kitten]

101. How about a "well, I can never see things from a woman's point of view..

so I'll make it all about me" victimization board?

I'm sure it can soothe more than a few egos?

:sarcasm:

[cgrindley]

17. What sort of moron wrote the article?

nihilistic nerds?
crackers?
tech geeks?

I'd flame war someone over that sort of writing any day.

It is a serious issue though, but to suppose that it's an issue that only affects women is a little much. The internet is a rude, wild west place, and it isn't going to change any time soon. People get flamed everywhere for just about everything. Posters with female sounding names are probably going to get flamed along gender lines because everyone on earth knows that the way that you hurt a woman's feelings is by posting a bunch of misogynistic crap. It's just the way it goes. It's an ugly ugly internet, and although I hate to be the voice of utter despair, I just don't see it changing any.

[nashville_brook]

23. everyone on earth knows that you hurt a woman's feelings by threatening to rape and kill her

[cgrindley]

28. That's why they make those sorts of posts

because those sorts of posts get reactions. This article was written like no one could see the why's behind the misogynistic bullshit. People attacking women attack them in those ways because those ways hurt.

[Scout]

57. "to suppose that it's an issue that only affects women"

did you bother to read the article? did you read the excerpts?

where does the article say what you are claiming?

[cgrindley]

68. That article has been circling around the internet for quite a while

and it isn't a situation that only applies to women. Or does no one remember the Halo online scandal with the constant harrassment of players who get identified as being African Americans? The internet is a nasty place and there are a lot of groups being singled out and attacked by a bunch of jerks? Penis griefing in Second Life anyone?

[Scout]

73. no one here, or in the article, is saying that the situation applies

only to women.

So why do you keep telling us it doesn't apply only to women ... we know that, we aren't saying that it does. What we ARE saying is that the victims of internet abuse are disproportionately women.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

[Akoto]

25. Internet fact: anonymity often turns people into jerks.

I started on the internet back when it was still largely unknown and/or seen as a nerdy, unpopular thing to use. My subject statement was as true then as it is now. People will say things online that they wouldn't say in person because they don't have to look you in the eye.

[cgrindley]

29. No, it frees them up to be themselves

look over at the debate regarding the gay advocacy group wanting to publish the names of everyone who signed a petition... people behave in a certain, more honest way when given anonymity.

Those people who post misogynistic crap might not say it out loud to someone's face, but they sure as shit think it.

[LanternWaste]

105. Freed up to be themselves = turning into jerks in more cases than not...

Freed up to be themselves = turning into jerks in more cases than not...

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

33. Um, I don't think people here on DU are ok with hate against women

or anyone else (except maybe bush...).

We want to stop all the hate, not just a subset of it.

[nashville_brook]

36. you've spent this whole thread saying threats against women are no big deal

that we are no different than your imagined "anyone else" who are cyber-stalked, etc.

you are effectively saying that we don't get to talk about the hate and violence we experience because somewhere out there, there's someone else experiencing violence.

to the back of the bus!

[The Straight Story]

41. Threats against anyone is a big deal

Which was the point. Working together to fight all those making threats towards others is something we have in common...or are you saying threats against women are somehow worse then threats against gays, blacks, whites, etc?

[cgrindley]

48. I don't think people are getting our point

which I'm assuming we share:

a. the internet is a fucked up place
b. misogyny is rotten and inexcusable
c. see a.

[smirkymonkey]

80. Do you dismiss complaints of racism and homophobia that way?

"Oh girls, just get over it, everyone has to put up with it." Yeah, everyone except WHITE MEN.

This particular thread is about WOMEN and MISOGYNY ON THE INTERNET. If you have nothing constructive to say about that particular topic, then go start a thread about "People who are mean to Gays, Blacks and White, etc." on the internet.

[cgrindley]

34. What are you talking about?

Who the fuck defends misogyny?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Messing With People Who Haven't Messed With You Is Messed Up

Why are folks surprised to see the same aberrant behavior on the net that occurs in "real life"?

And the net is worse because it's fueled by anonymity...

[Patiod]

49. I've seen posts on boards for recent law school grads

The guys are just animals. Men can post fairly unmolested (fairly), but anything that women post are greeted with "she's saying that because she's ugly" or "Look her up her picture, she's a pig" . The harassment is appalling, and this isn't based on the content of the females' posts, it's solely because they're women. And these aren't chat rooms, but comment boards like this.

I stick to liberal websites and business-travel websites (mostly grownups who are going there for information purposes vs. entertainment) and haven't had a problem, but I've seen others attacked, especially on sites that attract a lot of young men.

It is frightening to see the amount of sexual aggression and misogyny out there.

[BlooInBloo]

53. O wow - they're no anonymous there, are they?

If not, that's a cut above (or below) the normal grade of picking on women.

[noiretextatique]

55. i used to belong to a usenet group

alt.african.american.culture. tt became so overrun with pea-brained racists that it had to be moderated.

[Caria]

70. I was on a cancer support group with a similar problem

Some trolls were even sending private attacks to women on the list, telling us we deserved to die of cancer because we had careers, or were single, or were immigrants, or had abortions, or were democrats or whatever.

[noiretextatique]

71. amazing

what assholes some peole can be.

[OzarkDem]

94. OMG! That's horrible

I've always suspected there is an undercurrent of hostility against cancer victims, women in particular.

The right wingers will do anything to blame breast cancer on abortion, no matter how much scientific evidence refutes it. One congressman even made the accusation to a group of 60+ year old breast cancer patients who visited him in his office.

Its the "just world" syndrome - right wingers would rather blame people for their illnesses than pay for research or access to health care.

[Caria]

99. Yes the anti-abortion fanatics were the worst

And they call themselves "right to life"??????

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

85. Usenet is just one big festering pool of hate

There are cases of people calling the FBI, child welfare, driving by others homes to take pictures, leaving death threats on voice mails in regards to SPORTS newsgroups, fer cryin' out loud.

[femrap]

59. I wonder how many of these anonymous

women haters are rapists. Recalling the recent lacrosse team of D'
Anza College in N. California where males had sex with a young women who was totally unconscious and yet were not repentent in the least....as if it was their absolute right to use a woman if she was drunk and passed out. What's next for these males...necrophelia?

What would happen if the shoe were on the other foot?

[OzarkDem]

95. Seems to be a problem w/ some young men today

More peer pressure and media exposure to demeaning messages about women.

[Patiod]

102. And demeaning pornography

I won't go into detail for fear of getting moderated, but the predominant themes of regular (not B&D themed) porn now seem to offer almost exclusively female degradation, pain, choking, humiliation and subjugation.

[Mythsaje]

60. I heard about a lot of this kind of crap

from the women when I was on AOL. I truly don't understand people like this. That's probably the foremost problem in dealing with it--we don't "get" it. Women don't get it, men who'd never DO it don't get it. No one gets it but those who do it, and who the hell knows WHY they do it.

[badgerpup]

67. I've always used ambiguous pseudonyms for this very reason.

...and I still get hit on every now and then by both (alleged) males and females.

Some people are either
A). desperate
B). trolls, or
C). taking unfair advantage of the intarwebz anonymity to be total jerks...
because if they tried this kinda shit in REAL life they'd probably get their asses handed to them...
with a 'new one', freshly ripped.
:eyes:

[THUNDER HANDS]

72. the web is racist too

every click on the comments of a youtube video featuring black people. it's freakin' terrifying.

[BlooInBloo]

86. On both fronts, it accurately reflects America. DUers just think it doesn't exist...

... because white folks/men commonly hide it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

91. Who said it doesn't exist?

Go back through the thread and try to show where THAT was said.

While we're waiting for that reply that will never come.......let's get the next sub-thread started.........quick, someone claim white folks and men here deny that homophobia on the 'net exists......

Holy shit......talk about people not reading what's in plain sight.........

[BlooInBloo]

92. I'm sorry you're able to neither recognize mere lipservice for what it is...

... nor able to see threads beyond this one.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

93. I'm able to recognize the usual bullshit when I see it

And the usual fertilizer salesman who likes to spread it around here.

[idgiehkt]

88. yep, youtube is horrible

every male musician is a "fag" and every female musician is talked about in sexualizing terminology. It's scary in there sometimes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. Men tend not to believe that women are getting harrassed, or they think

it's not so bad because it rarely happens in their presence.

[smirkymonkey]

106. Or the usual suspects who show up on these threads come

here to harass and intimidate because they are the men who do these kinds of things to women and they are defensive about it.

Just a thought. :shrug: