Michael Vick, "pets", and horse racing

[SHRED]

Both animal torture.
One glamorized and one punished severely.

Here in Del Mar, CA there were 24 horses, last year, slaughtered via drugged up "racing" and subsequent crippling.

How many of you like shredded beef tacos?

This world is fucking crazy.
Do you see my point?

Some are called pets and some are called food, yet all suffer.

Guys at work were calling him a "fucking asshole" today.
I told them, in so many words, to get off their high horses.
If you think feed lots and slaughterhouses are humane then think again.

Basically, my view is that only Vegans have a right to bitch about Michael Vick.
All others contribute to animal torture and death.

So for me, and fellow meat eaters, to not be a hypocrite I say, "Free Michael Vick...LET HIM PLAY!!!"

[Avalux]

1. You have a point, but it's not that black and white.

People who eat meat from animals bred for the sole purpose of food are passively contributing to animal torture and death.

Michael Vick (allegedly) actively participated in animal torture and death with domesticated animals who are bred for the sole purpose of companionship.

There is a difference. I'm not a vegan and I have every right to despise Michael Vick actions - I don't want to see him in a football uniform again.

Oh - let's not forget Vick lied to his coach and the commissioner about his actions.

[MGB4EVA]

2. Unless those vegans live as old timey hermits, they contribute just as much.

The rain forest is striped bare for their food just as much as anyone else's, their medicine gets pumped into dying monkeys just like everyone else's, and the trash they produce fills the same dumps and wrecks the environment just like everyone else's.

[Hoof Hearted]

19. Or so the right-wing REPUKE nutjobs would have you think. Don't take it personally

I buy local food. I buy very little produced outside of the great plains area. It limits what I can get in certain seasons but most people would be surprised how much that actually adds to ones life. Living by the seasons is very rewarding.

We've cut our waste by more than 75% with almost no effort at all. I think only a repuke would have a hard time with the concept of cutting back, making an effort, composting, and recycling just because it's the right thing to do, etc.

It's so much easier to pretend that everyone else is just as big of a fat selfish ass as you are.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[napi21]

3. Dog fighting is ILLEGAL!!!! Slaughter houses are not!

So is gambling by any professional athlete!

No mater what excuse YOU try to conj our up to exonerate Vick, he admitted to committing crimes!

I don't ever want to see him on an football field again!

[SHRED]

5. I am not defending Vick

Just trying to point out what I perceive as hypocrisy by those indignant with him yet enjoy a good horse race and a steak.

[Kingshakabobo]

7. So when you said: "Free Michael Vick...LET HIM PLAY!!!"

You were just talking out your ass. Noted.

[SHRED]

10. Nope

I am saying that in my mind there is no difference between animals as pets and those as food.
In fact the food animals are the ones we should "outraged" over.

But no...somehow we justify our actions.

[napi21]

13. I understand you, as a vegetarian or a vegan believe that.

I don't support the methods used to slaughter our cattle, chickens, hogs, or any other animals we use for food. I watched a TV show "How do they do that" a week or so ago, and they showed how they hatch chicks, separate them, and ship them. I was appalled, but I also understand I'm such an animal lover, they would have had to pet each one on the head before putting them in a little padded bed for shipping before I was partially happy!

It is part of our culture to raise animals for food. It is NOT part of our culture to strangle and mutilate dogs, that we consider "our best friends".

[yewberry]

24. He's not veg*n. nt

[Johonny]

43. No it's a part of our culture

To take the excess dogs and cats to the animal shelter where a nice person (not long these places have a high turnover rate, wonder why?)kills the perfectly healthy animal by lethal injection. It's out of sight and thus out of mind. So we can go on pretending we as a society LOVE our pets and treat them great. Yes in a world where millions of "pets" are killed due to lack of homes to place them and breeding without any thought or care, is it a surprise some people like Vick conclude killing them himself ain't that different. The beauty of out of sight out of mind. Those dead American soldiers don't seem so bad cause Fox news don't show them on TV.

[TZ]

45. Ummm

Have you ever actually seen race horses? There is a HUGE difference between having a horse run around the track (something they love to do, horses that don't usually never make it to the track)
and viciously setting on animal on another for sheer entertainment. oh btw, dog fighting is ILLEGAL.
And this is what I can't stand about a lot of vegans...that just because I eat meat means I don't care about animals! Well I am all for the ASPCA and the work they do.
Please get off your high horse about how you think others should live...
N

[jgraz]

4. We're pushing that analogy a bit far, don't you think

Yes, many feedlots and slaughterhouses are places of horror, which is why I only buy certified humanely-raised meat. You can't compare a quick kill of a free-range food animal to the kind of torture that Vick inflicted on those poor dogs. He's a psychopath who needs to be kept away from society for the rest of his life.

[Double T]

6. WTF are YOU talking about? vick is a psychopath criminal........

that tortures, then kills animals for sport or for NOT performing up to his psychotic standards. Attempting to equate vick's behavior to a slaughterhouse is absurd. vick belongs in prison for life and certainly NOT given the opportunity for a PR firm to 'rehabilitate' his image so he can be a role model for YOUR children. YOU are as crazy as vick, get some professional help!

[SHRED]

8. If you think I am defending Vick...

...then you are the one that is crazy.

[Robson]

9. Sorry must disagree .... Vick shouldn't play pro ball

While it is true that humans throughout history have been less than humane with their feed lots, we have never accepted behavior of extreme cruelty to pets. I'd prefer that animals are always treated humanely, although realistically animals as living beings will always be in the food chain of nature.

It is important that Michael Vick, as an athlete, role model and idol to our youth, should unquestionably be made accountable for his actions. No slap on the wrist. Usually the team owners twist arms so that the high paid pro sports "talent" are allowed to continue with their career even though they should be made into examples, if they demonstrate illegal and bad behavior, just as their idols in the public will experience.

Under no circumstance should Michael Vick ever play football again in the NFL. He should instead be given a job as stadium grounds keeper so that he and fans are reminded daily of the importance of ethics and common sense in our daily lives.

[ecstatic]

11. The scandal does strike me as a bit hypocritical nt

[UTUSN]

12. Neh, I have a right to bitch. Put VICK in an arena with fighting dogs. n/t

[flying_monkeys]

16. Ummm, isn't cruelty to critters

cruelty to ALL?


Why advocate Vick getting chewed up by dogs if you are AGAINST cruelty?


Hello, if you (general you) are against CRUELTY, then don't advocate cruelty towards the dude, either....

[CitizenLeft]

14. Oh Jesus Christ

I just posted this on yet ANOTHER "why the outrage?" thread, so I'm putting it here too.

I really resent the continuous insinuation that people can't ALSO be upset about MANY issues, including animal rights. I guess those who care about this also are going to have to put a disclaimer in their sig line listing all the things they care about first before they can then say, damn, that was awful what Vick did.

Or else not say anything at all.

People wonder why this issue has angered so many people? I can only speak for myself. I have 3 dogs. They sleep in my bed. I love them, they love me. They are all rescues. Let's take one as an example - the one who was so cruelly abused, probably SEXUALLY, that she had to be removed from the bastard's home by the police. I got her a week before she was scheduled to be put down. She was hostile, terrified, emaciated, and "unadoptable." Ten years later, she's gentle and loving. If she got lost, I would frantically search to the gates of hell for her. And the gates of hell could easily be a cage in a dogfight compound, if she were picked up and sold to such a place. And it's not too difficult to consider what would happen to my gentle sweet dog if she were tested in a barbaric dog fight. She would lose. She would then be tortured - AGAIN - drowned, electrocuted, shot, or slammed against a wall until her brains were scattered on the floor. All my love for her could not save her. It's a vivid image that breaks my heart - as do other issues - but this is personal for people who own dogs. There are 60 million dog owners in America. Yeah. That many. What Vick did outrages at least 60 million people on a personal level. That doesn't include people who just plain hate brutality. That's a lot of people.

Why can't people be angry about this without having their value system questioned??? Don't we have a right to our opinions and feelings about animal brutality without having to take a test to prove our worth as human beings to YOU or anyone else? Point me to the "Are You a Caring Person Or A Selfish Hypocritical Shit" test so that I can have my "care" quotient mapped on a graph.

Oh. And yes, I care about horses, too. Jesus.

[idgiehkt]

15. if these were abstract concepts instead of real creatures

I could see your point. I don't think it's a good idea to get hung up on intellectualizing things like this. When you lessen the suffering of one creature, that matters. It doesn't mean that other creatures don't suffer, and it's good to point that out and create awareness, but calling people who show compassion for the suffering of an animal 'hypocrites' isn't very compassionate. Maybe they will make the leap, and maybe they won't, but still if one dog is saved a horrible death because of this, then it matters very much to that one animal. I may not be making myself clear, but it's like that quote from "Schindler's List", something along the lines of 'If you save one man you save the whole world". I believe this, you do save the world through that person's eyes. I could get into deeper concepts like the interconnectedness of all beings and the collective consciousness, but I won't...that is where it leads though.

[Hoof Hearted]

17. Well, as a vegan, I feel qualified then to tell you that your position is full of turd blossom.

I do not advocate the killing of any animal, however, the analogies you have made are piss-poorly thought out.

Dr. Temple Grandin. Google that, and then resume your survey of this post.








Did you read?

Humane slaughter seems like a contradiction in terms, and it is, but I am grateful for the work done by doctor Grandin. This is the direction that most of the industry is trying to move in, if only for publicities sake.

To compare this to the deliberate, egregiously cruel, and willful execution of powerless, voiceless creatures is just ignorant at best.

Let him play? No. If you love Vick, send him some soap on a rope.

[CitizenLeft]

18. thank you for the link

I bookmarked it. Saw Fast Food Nation a few months ago. Got it from Netflix, and watched the special feature pieces. It was an eye-opener. And left me shaky, too. I hope you're right about the change of course for the meat industry. Burger King recently announced they would only buy their beef from humane meat sources (you're right, that's a contradiction in terms too). They'd better hold to that, the animal rights groups are watching them.

[Hoof Hearted]

20. We simply cannot sustain current practices.

Our culture has gone meat STUPID. It's not a luxury to be consumed in moderation any more. It's no longer respected. It's equated with the size of mens ball's. It's the S.U.V. of food catagories.

[CitizenLeft]

21. "the S.U.V. of food catagories"

LOL, so true. The image of the guy in the apron grilling a steak on his grill is the modern equivalent of the Marlboro Man. Not that there's anything wrong with grilling steaks... I love my cheeseburgers, but I do watch the labels on the meat at the grocery store, try my damnedest to stick to the cageless eggs and organic meats. It's hard (because that meat is more expensive), but I try. I hope that one day labels like "organic" will be unnecessary.

[fightindonkey]

22. When the Horses Start Going For Each Others Faces And It's A Spector Sport

Then maybe I'll agree with you!

[Hoof Hearted]

23. I think I speak for many when I say. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

What the hell are you talking about?

[whoneedstickets]

25. I say let Vick play, the NFL is 'human fighting' anyway....

At least one player has died on the field in a regular season game (one recently died in the Arena league). Others have expired in practice or shortly after. The number of paralyzed players is many times this figure. The average NFL player loses over a decade from his actuarial life expectancy. A high number of NFL vets suffer from debilitating joint injuries. Recently, commonly experienced concussions have been found to be related to mental illness among NFL vets.

He's been 'in the ring' his whole life.

[Marrah_G]

34. Not even close to being the same thing

When football players are forced to rip each other open (literally) and are electrocuted when they lose a game, when cheerleaders are strapped to rape stands to breed more players then we can talk.

I love football and I hope they ban him from the sport for life.

[IndianaJones]

26. false outrage is common. Hateful statements toward Vick is the cool thing to do. nt.

[LibInternationalist]

27. Animals killed for food *can* be treated humanely

Dogs used in dog fighting can not. That is the difference, and it's a big one.

[IndianaJones]

28. Do you feel that the majority of the animals we eat are treated humanely? nt.

[LibInternationalist]

29. I didn't say the majority of them were

No. I do not eat animals that are killed inhumanely to the best of my ability, though, and eating animals is not necessarily inconsistent with humane treatment.

*NONE* of the dogs used for dog fighting are treated humanely.

[IndianaJones]

31. If they are killed humanely, yet are raised in conditions that are not..

humane, does that make it better?

[LibInternationalist]

32. Uh, somewhat, I guess

I would advocate for animals both raised and killed in humane conditions.

Personally, FWIW, I try to eat wild-caught fish and I do not eat other animals (which is why I defaulted to "killed" humanely rather than "raised" humanely - I try not to eat any animal that has been raised).

[IndianaJones]

35. Understood. Personally, I don't like dogfighting and feel it is appropriate...

for it to be illegal. However, I am under no illusions that the animals I eat are in any way treated humanely. It is simply a double standard I am comfortable with.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

30. Give me a fuckin' break

So you think that eating a taco is basically the same as beating a dog to death by smashing it against the ground --

Shred... Come on dude.

Then, if that is the case -

If you are disgusted by the act of child molestation, if you really care, I mean really... really care...

You would become celibate and never engage in consensual, adult sex.

The two things really are kind of different - huh?

BTW Shred - I wont argue this with you (much) since I know you will argue all day since you are home from work today and I need to get some shit done around here.

[southpaw]

33. It is possible to eat meat and still have a negative opinion of Michael Vick

This reminds me of those who insist that anyone who drives a vehicle with an internal combustion engine can not have an opinion on second hand smoke.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Work out the rationalization however you like. Vick simply MUST be crucified.

[IndianaJones]

37. I've seen other words used. But you seem to be right. nt.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Just tryin' to capture the zeitgeist.

[IndianaJones]

39. the reaction is almost comical in its over the....topness. nt.

[flvegan]

40. I'm a vegan, and this is complete stupidity.

It's not hypocritical for anyone to be outraged at Vick and/or dogfighting, regardless of what they eat, etc.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

41. I'm going to swim upstream against the current here..

And agree with SHRED.

Hypocrisy is not a binary condition, there are levels.

Everyone is a hypocrite to one extent or another.

I have a dog I love dearly, she sleeps under the covers in the bed with us.

I'm an animal lover, I'll stop in the road and move a turtle somewhere a bit safer.

Eating meat is something I do and I really don't have the time or money to pick and choose even if there is a choice available.

People do not want to think about the horrible things that are done to feed, clothe, heal and entertain them.

Then they go all bananas when terrible things done to animals gets splashed in their face.

I'm a hypocrite if I condemn Vick for what he did.

Level to be determined, but a hypocrite none the less.

[SHRED]

44. Thank you

Well put!