Hey since the Dems are doing such a lousy job. Why don't we tear the party down now

[xultar]

so we can get ready for 2k8.

Who's with me?

I mean all they are all DINOS and they went back on everything we voted them in for in 2k6.

So let's rebulid right now...or stay home in 2k8. That way we'll have our party together 2k12 and it will be just perfect.
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I'd really like to use this thread as a planning thread. What is the plan people? We scream and yell about how the DEMS suck and how we need to purge and we need to kick Pelosi and Reid out and vote out all the lame as Dems in Congress...

Talk is cheap.

What is the plan. So. Post your plan people. What is your plan for kicking out the incumbents you don't like and voting in people you do? What is the plan for rebuilding the party?

What is the time frame for all this do we do it now in 2k8? What are the risks involved? Should the plan be conducted under a Democratic, Republic or Third-Party president?

Need details. You wanted people to listen. I'm listening. What is the plan.

[MADem]

1. I'd rather just toss the garbage over the side...turn 'em into fish food!!!

It's really not that MUCH garbage, but it sure stinks the joint up...

[Burma Jones]

2. Why don't we all just become Republicans

That would confuse them.........

[xultar]

5. I can't become a republic. You can call me just about anything...even the c word

but not a republic. Calling me a republic is grounds for a beat down.

[Burma Jones]

8. then we're going to have to have a viable Progressive Party

Corporatism has become so deeply ingrained that I don't know how to shake people out of it.

[xultar]

12. So what do we all do? How to stop corporatism?

[Burma Jones]

29. Corporatism has to screw itself up

Like it did in the Great Depression, or Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.......

[xultar]

30. I agree with you on that. Do you think this new wave of Dow up n downs

is the beginning...oh and the collapse of the real estate boom?

Do you think there should be curbs on corporate giving to candidates. Say...limit corporation giving to 5k for any single candiate and 10k to any party per year? I like that idea. We could also outlaw corporate lobbyist. I'd have no problem with that.

What about union giving. Put them under the same corporate rules for the union as a whole but individuals can give what they want.

[Burma Jones]

33. The Supreme Court has said that Money is Speech

We'll have to get past that first.

I have hope in the under 40 crowd, that the basic method for getting their news is changing from the Rupert Murdoch model to a more Anarchic model, but I fear the sort of future painted in the film "Minority Report" is more likely, a future where the advertising goes right into your head and that advertising gets more and more indistinguishable from news.

[The Stranger]

3. I'm with you.

We have to clean house if they ignore their base. Not to mention pass legislation that obliterates the Constitution and the fundamental rights of the people.

If they can't do these simple things, then fuck them -- they have to go.

[BuyingThyme]

4. The Party is stronger than ever. The leaders blow.

[xultar]

6. So how do you propose kicking them out. Do we need to vote them out?

If so I think we'll have to wait another 4 years before we can win. Because of the incumbent situation. So either stay home or vote the dems out by voting for 3rd parties. IF there is not third party then we'll need to vote Rethug or not vote @ all.

What is the plan?

[BuyingThyme]

7. I plan on forcing Nancy Pelosi to resign in shame.

[xultar]

9. OK. So Nancy Pelosi is the only problem in your eyes?

[BuyingThyme]

17. No, but she's the genesis of much of it.

Well, actually, the genesis might be traced to the Dry Powder gang who surrendered habeas corpus, but you can't really put a single face to that.

With Pelosi I see a face of lawlessness -- a woman who exhibits disdain for the Constitution and urges appeasement for the most dangerous criminals ever to exist.

I think it would be a huge boost for Democrats if she would step down and apologize.

[xultar]

21. So, you see Pelosi I see a face of lawlessness and that she has disdain for the constitution.

So we boot her out. I don't think Sheehan will win so the Republican will take her seat. Good. then she's out.

[BuyingThyme]

26. There's no way for a Republican to win that seat.

And if Pelosi does the right thing for the country, and steps down, it won't be hard to find a qualified Democratic candidate.

[xultar]

28. Any candidate you know of in the wings out there? I like Cindy but she is a 1 issue

candidate. I think the district needs a little more.

[BuyingThyme]

31. Well, if Pelosi steps down, the Dems can support Sheehan.

I think Bernie Ward lives in that district, as perhaps does Ray Taliaferro. (Lots of talent over there.)

[xultar]

37. Sheehan is a one issue candiate. I don't think she'll be good in the seat.

[BuyingThyme]

39. She's already infinitely better than the one who occupies the seat.

How would an official status hamper her efforts?

[BlooInBloo]

11. Primaries. And point out the jackass fuckwipe Connecticut electorate the whole time....

... If that doesn't work, then it's the electorate's fault.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

14. Vote for Ron Paul?

I disagree violently with him on some subjects and agree equally violently on others..

At least with Paul you know what you are getting.

[xultar]

18. Do you really? Mike Gravel seems on top of it. What about DK?

They seem to be above board WYSISYG type of guys.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

27. Yes I like Kucinich and Gravel also..

But the OP was about tearing down the Democrats.. So I didn't mention Dem candidates.

[Mojambo]

10. Gotta tear down the system that only allows for the party we have now

Big job. HUGE job.

[xultar]

15. How do we do that?

[stimbox]

13. DLC flamebait

:puke:

[ecstatic]

16. Do you know how much damage can be done in 4 years?!

Sorry, the country can't afford it. Yes, our so called opposition party seems worthless at times, but I think that somehow things could get worse if we relinquish control again.

[Beelzebud]

19. I have a better idea. Let's sit in silence when they make mistakes!

Let's just let them get away with MURDER like the Republican base did.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Yah! Because everybody knows those are the only two possibilities!!!

:rofl:

[xultar]

23. I don't think that is a good idea. What do you propose instead? We vote them all out in 2k8.

What do we do with the party prior to that? How to oust Dean and the rest?

[Perry Logan]

22. The OP would flunk a simple quiz on what the Democrats have accomplished in recent months.

[Forkboy]

25. Perry Logan would flunk sarcasm class.

[Madspirit]

32. You don't know the OP

She is being insincere and snide. She is very pro the ones we have right now. So don't worry. This was really a flamebait call-out to the most leftist of us who do think the Democrats suck right now.

Lee

[zippy890]

24. Whaaat?

Dems are doing such a lousy job?

sorry xultar I don't get it. I think they are doing a good enough job in Congress considering everything. not a big enough lead in the senate to really do much more.

am I out of step here?

[endarkenment]

34. Which wing of the War Party should I support?

How will that end the war?

[Exiled in America]

35. While I don't believe the sincerity of your post one bit, I'll answer anyway:

It's not even remotely complicated. In fact, its quite simple.

The key to a strong party is for its members to remain committed to its core principles and demand - at all costs - accountability from the party's elected officials.

It is short term, narrow minded thinking to be afraid to hold party leadership and elected representatives accountable for fear that it might result in a loss of party power. Sometimes it will result in a short term loss of party power. However, in the long term it is the only way to maintain a party with any power at all.

The idea of "party loyalty" must be loyalty to core principles, not persons, be they party leaders or elected representatives. When a person betrays those principles, he or she betrays the trust given to them by the people. Those persons should be replaced.

When the party strays very far from its principles, as the Democratic Party has done for years under the wilting pressure from conservatives attacking those principles from within, it becomes weak and ineffective. We've lived under this for too many years, while apologists cry that if we ever take a stand and stop voting for weak, ineffective, bought-and-paid-for, closet conservative pieces of crap, we would be "hurting the party" or ensuring a Republican victory.

There are worse things in life than a short term Republican gain. Like a long term Democratic failure. After a decade of Republican control over most of government, Democrats finally had the chance to make a stand. The fact that they have not done so (the congressional leadership and enough "blue dog" democrats) is why ultimately this opportunity to reestablish long term democratic control will be squandered. The best thing that could possibly happen for this country and this party is for democrats to start having principles rather than just doing anything and supporting anyone with a "D" after their name in order to "win."

What exactly is won when we do that? Nothing. Sometimes "disciplining" the party in order to create necessary course corrections to stay on principle means suffering an election cycle where the other guys win. I'm sorry, but that's how politics works. If you don't like it, sit down, shut up and sit on the sidelines... and to borrow a phrase, let the "adults" be in charge. Winning at all cost gets you next to nothing. Voting for any democratic simply for sake of party "loyalty" gets you ineffective, compromising, cowering, pathetic representatives who take YOUR philosophy (simply winning at all cost) and make it THIER philosophy (not every doing what's right and simply trying to win reelection.)

The only option for a better long term future of this country and for the party is to demand accountability from elected representatives.

First, we need to come to a consensus on that the core principles of the party actually are. Everyone always talks about the "big tent” of the party. But if there are no lines of distinction between this party and any other party – if every point of view is “supported” then there is no party in the first place. We need to come to agreement on what the essential principles of the party on, and then maintain freedom in the non-essentials.

Second, you then demand accountability from the people you elect and from the leadership of the party. When elected representatives betray essential party principles, you refuse to vote for them again. Ideally you ensure than someone else wins the democratic nomination. But if they are the candidate for reelection, you don’t vote for them. You don’t vote for people who don’t uphold the principles of the party of the reason they were elected in the first place.

YES, this man mean in the SHORT run that the other party wins the election instead. Sometimes it could even mean turning congressional control over to the other Party. And in the short term, that’s a sad thing that can potentially mean hard times for real families. But that’s the price you pay. It’s aint all pretty flowers. In the LONG run, you fill the party with strong leaders, people of principle and courage, people who care more about doing what is right for the country and the party than they do about their own careers. And when you do that, you can guarantee that the party WILL come to power again, and when it does, it will KEEP power longer, be more effective, and do more to aid the wonderful people of this country.

In 2008, if I had the ability for vote for all Democratic Congressmen, I would not vote for a single one that vote to approve the war appropriations bill. That act needlessly signed the death warrants of countless American men and women and innocent Iraqi civilians. I would not vote for a single Democrat that voted for the enhanced surveillance powers or the leadership that capitulated with the administration to give them what they wanted. That was an outright betrayal of the Constitution of the United States of America. I would hope that a better, more courageous democrat would win the nomination. But if not, then when a Republican replaces a worthless Democrat “in name only” the message can be sent loud and clear to the leadership of the party, “we will not tolerate democratic party representatives that betray the parties core principles. We would rather LOSE than win by STANDING FOR NOTHING or by adopting the policies of our opponents!

That’s how you win in the long run ….. you have to be willing to lose in the short run, if that’s what standing up for what’s right means.

[xultar]

38. Well I don't really care if you belive my sincerity or not. So you'd rather let the Republicans

win the congress and the white house in the next election so that we can win in the long run?

But you pose a good point. I'll post it to DU @ large and see what they think.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

36. Fishing for fan mail from some flounders?

It's really not worth it. You're better than that.