Jose Padilla so mentally destroyed that he loves Big Brother Bush

[HamdenRice]

I am listening to DemocracyNow's interview today with Jose Padilla's psychiatrist. Dr. Angela Hegarty interviewed Padilla for 22 hours. This is one of the most chilling news items of the hundreds of chilling news items ever to emerge from the Bush era.

Among her observations:

* Because of his torture and isolation, Jose Padilla now deeply identifies with his torturers, the government and President Bush. One of the reasons he refuses to assist his attorneys is his concern that if he wins his case this would impair President Bush's ability to keep detaining the terrorists at Guantanamo Bay. She says that Padilla exhibits "Stockholm syndrome."

* Padilla appears to be brain damaged. Dr. Hegarty noted that severe isolation for just a few days can cause psychosis. Padilla suffered severe isolation for several years. The result seems to be not just mental illness, but hard wired brain damage.

* The torture he experienced was intended to accomplish the complete destruction of a human being.

* The isolation was intended to give Padilla the overwhelming impression that there was no possibility of his ever getting out of detention.

The similarity between what happened to Padilla and what happened to Winston Smith, the main character of George Orwell's "1984" shows just how sick the Bush administration is.

I'll post more when the DemocracyNow rush transcript appears.

[The Stranger]

1. Don't let them destroy the records of everyone involved.

There will be justice -- even if it is the last thing that we do.

[HamdenRice]

5. I wonder about that also -- why would any torturer think he will get away with it

All of these people are eventually going to prison, for extremely long periods. Their lives will be destroyed.

They are incredibly stupid for participating in these atrocities.

[The Stranger]

9. It is all cloaked in secrecy based on lies about "national security."

I am afraid it will be far, far more difficult to get to the perpetrators, but it must be done.

[file83]

52. "National Security?" - DoublePlusGood, I say.

# Report Thoughtcrime

# War Is Peace

# Freedom Is Slavery

# Ignorance Is Strength

[Hydra]

19. You have no idea!

This stuff has been going on for decades. It's just now that the polite fiction has been dropped.

Tens of thousands of torturers practiced their bloody trade, then retired to luxury and public respect...unless we bring down the system, business as usual will continue for another 1000 years.

[KaptBunnyPants]

44. Why do you think justice will ever be served?

Bush isn't a fluke. There won't be any investigations, what he did will stand and become official policy unless we somehow get someone in office who gives a damn. Bill Clinton let Iran Contra stand, and Hillary is going to sweep this under the carpet as well, if she gets a chance. And God forbid one of those nutcases running as a Republican get in. I would not bet on the chance of the US turning back into a lawful country.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

was the doc permitted to testify?

THAT is the key.

bastards. We AMERICANS did that to an AMERICAN CITIZEN. On purpose. Deliberately.
fuckers.

[HamdenRice]

6. She is testifying in his trial

As I understand it, she is testifying that he is incompetent to stand trial because he can no longer assist in his defense.

He apparently hates his defense -- any defense team -- because he now thinks the government is all powerful and should not be resisted.

He also believes that the only person who can save him is President Bush.

[KittyWampus]

17. Curious to think what happened in the psychic makeup of Freepers to be so similar.

I am not trying to make a joke.

That's a serious statement.

[Ahpook]

43. They just love all this carnage..

They watch it on the boobtube like a fucking ball game. But i know what you are saying.

I was on a site earlier and saw some of them talking about different cults. I couldn't help but stir it up a bit and said i see the similarity in that and this current Bush Cult. That was about equal to jamming a stick in a hornets nest.

Mind controlled parrots came out of the woodwork with the talking point bullshit.

They just can't or won't think for themselves. It scares the shit out of them to do so.

[Maraya1969]

48. You've got a point there.

Not sure if it means anything but.........

[buddhamama]

2. his treatment is a shame this country

will forever have to bear.

Habeas Corpus suspended
torture...

:cry:

[spanone]

3. he's ripe for a position in the bu$h* cabinet....

someday i hope someone pays for the crimes of this administration....sadly it could be innocents who suffer the reprisals of our created enemies...ala WTC

[leftchick]

4. Padilla is a US citizen

born in Brooklyn. This could happen to any of us. Thanks for all of those checks congress. :puke:

[buddhamama]

7. it is important to remember

it could happen to any of us.

i get the feeling a lot of people in this country foolishly believe it won't, can't happen to them because they're law abiding citizens...blah blah blah.

:puke: is right.

[leftchick]

11. "if you are not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about"

Tell that to Jose. Oh yeah, you can't, his brain is mush now. :puke:

[zehnkatzen]

16. At least, not until they make what you're doing retroactively illegal.

I know everyone else is thinking this. Don't lie!

[followthemoney]

36. The dialog continues between Chicken Little and Pollyanna.

Will Padilla get his voting rights back now that he has been converted to the Bush faithful 26%?

[HamdenRice]

8. That's what Dr. Hegarty noted

The administration has mistakenly picked up other people and detained them as enemy combatants. She says that this could happen to any citizen and the administration's approach is that such a person just disappears forever with no hope of trial to even determine whether they have the right person.

[CoffeeCat]

26. Welcome to hell...

...where the leaders of today were yesterday's mealy-mouthed, little shits
who ran around beating lunch money out of unsuspecting, decent kids.

Scott Farkas is in charge now.

[Wednesdays]

27. My God, it's the Soviet Purge of 1938 all over again

:scared:

[wicket]

10. Horrifying.

:cry:

[Horse with no Name]

12. Or was he simply brainwashed?

I can surely imagine men in white coats with electrodes shocking the shit out of anyone who says that they don't like Bush...Hell I have nightmares of that myself...

[Canuckistanian]

32. I thought I heard something about "injections" once

What would they be injecting him with?

[CoffeeCat]

13. This is so upsetting and disgusting...

Obviously, this is what his torturers wanted.

They traumatized him so egregiously, that he is unable to testify against them.
I'm sure they used systematic methods that ensured his mental destruction.

They tortured him, took away his hope and probably convinced him that they
were the good guys for not killing him. He's trauma bonded to them.

These tactics are similar to what serial killers and pedophiles use to
traumatize victims into silence.

We are the terrorists. We are scum. I am so ashamed of this government.
It's not my government. They can all go to hell.

[HamdenRice]

15. Pedophiles and abusers

That's exactly what the doctor said. She said that child abusers always convince the victim that he or she must never tell what happened or horrible things will occur.

She says that is what they've done to Padilla. Among is greatest fears is that if he cooperates with psychiatrists and tells what happened people will think he is insane.

And sadly, he is, in fact, insane thanks to them.

[zehnkatzen]

14. K/R. N/T.

[Junkdrawer]

18. I keep saying...there are secrets in the prisons that the BFEE do NOT want revealed...

especially about the relationships between the Saudi GID, the Pakistani ISI, the rogue CIA, and al Qaeda...

[lala_rawraw]

20. i keep thinking - tin foil hat alert

is that they are building soldiers

[Hydra]

22. Not tinfoil

if you are interested, start digging at the grave of MK Ultra.

Look especially at Dr. Cameron.

It's a deep rabbit hole, and not for the faint of heart. :puke:

[Junkdrawer]

23. I think, after the collapse of the USSR, the MIC/Big Oil guys...

extended the Safari Club and built themselves a new Boogie Man...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1281780

al Qaeda was formed just about the time Cheney was bemoaning how hard it was to get Congress to keep defense spending at Cold War levels...

[lala_rawraw]

49. i have actually thought this very thing...

and have to keep slapping myself silly back to rational thinking... but this is what it seemingly appears to be... the creation of an enemy we need in order to justify a war we have created.

[Junkdrawer]

54. reprehensor did an excellent thread a while back: Deconstructing "al Qaeda"

I especially was interested in the work of one Nafeez Mossadeq Ahmed:
Profile: http://nafeez.mediamonitors.net/background.html

His essay for Rep. Cynthia McKinney’s congressional briefing; “The 9/11 Commission Report One Year Later, A Citizens' Response: Did the Commission Get it Right?
http://www.911blogger.com/node/2966

MP3 of his hour long talk: "Creating Terror":
ftp://www.radio4all.net/pub/files/[e-mail]/2704-1-20070720-creating_terror_part1edited.mp3

[HamdenRice]

25. I think it's part of the terrorize the population strategy

Not only have they done this and let the information out, but they have "mistakenly" detained other citizens.

The idea they are trying to instill is don't get out of line or this can happen to you.

[Mnemosyne]

46. My tin-foil says secret executions. n/t

[AntiFascist]

39. How many of these victims end up becoming intelligence assets? n/t

[Hydra]

21. K&R

So much for "It can't happen here."

It can, it does, and you're next if you don't act like a good christian and support the party line.

Still, the scariest thing is that this is out in the open- this used to be a deep secret that never saw the light of day.

[rucognizant]

55. So the next discussion about Presdential Candidates?

Do you really think we have the luxury of debating the pro's & cons of the forthcoming election?
I took a polling point poll with a picture of Hillary on it. ( A sidebar on some website which I now cannot find or I would post it. The multiple choice questions, didn't address the issues I wanted to answer, and there was 1 question, which candidate would yuo vote for. There were 8 Democratic candidates alright: BUT Dennis Kucinich & Mike Gravel, BOTH of whom have formally declared their run for Pres. were EXCLUDED! In their place were Gore & Clark, neither of whom has declared a run for president. TALK ABOUT MARGINALIZED!
In the box that allowed typed opinion, I made it clear that I would vote for Kucinich in the primary and do a write in at the Nov election!
IT'S TIME TO STOP THIS "HE'S UNELECTABLE" NONSENSE! HE IS BETTER PREPARED FOR THE JOB THAN ANYONE ELSE INTHE COUNTRY, AND HAS DEDICATED HIMSELF TO IT FOR SOME YEARS NOW! IT'S TIME TO (REWARD?) HIM FOR HIS HARD WORK, AND SELFLESS DEDICATION TO SERVE! HE' IS THE ABE LINCOLN, NOT JR.!
BTW Any one wonder where the Washington sniper is today? He WAS a military man! Is he REALLY in prison? I felt that that was a false flag operation. And where is tha wonderfuil Seriff Moose? Hero of that day? WHy haven't we heard any more about him?

[Dragonbreathp9d]

24. Jesus Christ....

K&R for everyone affected in this manner

[BlooInBloo]

28. Hearts and minds....

... destroying them.

[Synnical]

29. It's up at Democracy Now! Website

EXCLUSIVE: An Inside Look at How
U.S. Interrogators Destroyed the
Mind of Jose Padilla


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/16/1416242

[HamdenRice]

30. Thanks -- a few disturbing excerpts here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/16/1416242

Also he had developed, actually, a third thing. He had developed really a tremendous identification with the goals and interests of the government. I really considered a diagnosis of Stockholm syndrome. For example, at one point in the proceedings, his attorneys had, you know, done well at cross-examining an FBI agent, and instead of feeling happy about it like all the other defendants I’ve seen over the years, he was actually very angry with them. He was very angry that the civil proceedings were “unfair to the commander-in-chief,” quote/unquote. And in fact, one of the things that happened that disturbed me particularly was when he saw his mother. He wanted her to contact President Bush to help him, help him out of his dilemma. He expected that the government might help him, if he was “good,” quote/unquote.

...

Well, I think one of the things you have to realize is he was adamant that he would not reveal any quote/unquote “classified information.” He in fact refused to provide a narrative of his account. He essentially -- on the second day, after spending four hours on the Monday and we developed some rapport, on the second day I brought him in a list of materials and interrogation tactics that had been already -- you know, they were in the public record. And I asked him just merely to say yes or no to some of these things. And this included slapping, exposure to heat or cold for long periods of time, forcible showering. He was terrified, actually, about being taken to a thing called the “cage.” This was supposedly “recreation” -- I’d like to put that in quotes. He spoke about the lack of sleep, the relentless clicking and then banging of the doors of other cells that would wake him up.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[treestar]

31. If he has Stockholm Syndrome, that means they were kind to him

from time to time - not defending them, just that's a part of how they get the person into that mode.

It sounds like a classic case.

[HamdenRice]

35. Only if by "kind" you mean momentarily not torturing him

Stockholm sydrome occurs within the context of an abusive relationship. Good cop/bad cop plays or occasional "rewards" may play a part in cultivating Stockholm syndrome, but in no way can it be called being "kind."

[treestar]

47. ...

http://ask.yahoo.com/20030324.html

become sympathetic to their captors. The name derives from a 1973 hostage incident in Stockholm, Sweden. At the end of six days of captivity in a bank, several kidnap victims actually resisted rescue attempts, and afterwards refused to testify against their captors.

While some people are suggesting the recent Elizabeth Smart kidnapping sounds like a case of Stockholm Syndrome, the most famous incident in the U.S. involved the kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst. Captured by a radical political group known as the Symbionese Liberation Army in 1974, Ms. Hearst eventually became an accomplice of the group, taking on an assumed name and assisting them in several bank robberies. After her re-capture, she denounced the group and her involvement.

What causes Stockholm Syndrome? Captives begin to identify with their captors initially as a defensive mechanism, out of fear of violence. Small acts of kindness by the captor are magnified, since finding perspective in a hostage situation is by definition impossible. Rescue attempts are also seen as a threat, since it's likely the captive would be injured during such attempts.

It's important to note that these symptoms occur under tremendous emotional and often physical duress. The behavior is considered a common survival strategy for victims of interpersonal abuse, and has been observed in battered spouses, abused children, prisoners of war, and concentration camp survivors.

[BlackVelvet04]

33. Polls show that

30% of our fellow americans are mentally destroyed.

[Solly Mack]

34. and yet the Bush regime are still free and still in office

but let's all pretend America isn't a war crime nation

[Junkdrawer]

37. K&R

[HamdenRice]

38. Breaking Today: Padilla convicted of terrorism support

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2956345

[Karenina]

40. BIG CANNON SHOT across the bow!

[bobbolink]

41. That's what happens to people incarcerated in mental institutions.. but the connection is NOT made?

How can it be accepted for one group of people, but not for another?

[Kurovski]

42. K&R. (nt)

[Disturbed]

45. If the judge in this trial is half decent he would release Padilla

with time served. Hasn't he been punished enough for his alleged visit to an al Q training camp?

[glitch]

50. Perhaps he thinks we "need another 9/11" maybe he can run for office from prison.

Soon all the Republicans will be doing it.

[noise]

51. For what end did they torture him?

The same people who condone this supported the invasion of Iraq because Hussein tortured Iraqi citizens.

Claiming the government must torture people to prevent terror attacks is a "good German" rationalization.

[tom_paine]

53. Kinder and Gentler Nazis is what the Bushies ARE

They show it openly at every opportunity.

They are irrevocably tied to and related to the Nazis, their way of thinking, their embrace of Comforting Total Lies Told Them by Noble and Godly Leader, their use of demonization, and a dozen other characteristics.

[myrna minx]

56. That our government could do this to a human being, let alone

an American citizen should not only break our hearts, but chill our blood and outrage our spirit.

[Tigers07]

57. Seriously.....

I am all for Habeas Corpus and not allowing the Gov't to strip rights from American citizens, but come on. This guy was going to set off a dirty bomb in the middle of an AMERICAN city. He doesn't deserve any rights!!!!! You guys are a bunch of freakin' idiots!!!

[B3Nut]

58. If those allegations are even true

there is no justification for mentally destroying *any* human being or detaining *any* human being without hope of trial. Be careful of refusing to extend basic human rights to any accused person no matter how heinous the accusation. You *will* end up imperiling your own rights. If there actually was evidence and bona fide guilt the place to prove it is in a court of law. If guilt is truly proven an appropriate punishment can be then meted out. Our country's action in this case is completely inexcusable.

Be careful what you wish for.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[Altean Wanderer]

59. The US dropped thousands of dirty radiological bombs on Iraq

It's called depleted uranium. Everytime I hear this scaremongering about dirty bombs I want to show pictures of deformed depleted uranium babies to the idiot crying wolf.

Even IF Padilla is 100% guilty as charged, he didn't deserve to have his mind totally destroyed. This is Nazi doctor stuff. Makes you proud as hell to be an American - NOT.

[HamdenRice]

60. The feds dropped those charges

They no longer allege that Padilla was trying to set off a dirty bomb. He was convicted of filling out an application to join al Qaeda -- that's all.

But no charge whatsoever justifies torture.

[Tigers07]

61. So....

his rights are more important than the security of the nation. He sides with the enemy, he no longer counts as an American in my book. This guy may have had vital info for the future plans of Al Qaeda and we aren’t allowed to interrogate him. Remember, even the democratically run congress couldn’t show that any torture had been perpetrated to any detainee. Plus, any person in isolated captivity would show mental strain. It doesn’t mean there was torture. The psychiatrist obviously has a soft spot for dangerous criminals.

[HamdenRice]

62. I rarely say this outright, but

this is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Where to begin? By all accounts his mind and memory have been destroyed. Therefore, he is no longer able to give reliable information about any terrorist network, if any, he was involved in. Even the military now acknowledges that torture is counter-productive, because the tortured person tells the interrogator what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear, rather than the truth. At any rate, what has emerged is that this guy was only marginally involved with anyone. They tortured a wannabe for several years for nothing.

But if you are so gung ho pro-American, why aren't you pro-American about American values?

One of those values is this: Americans don't torture people. Period.

By the way, enjoy your brief stay.

[Tigers07]

63. Allright puppydog.....

If you are so gung ho American values, why don’t you hold the right of Americans to defend themselves?

[HamdenRice]

64. Straw man

the most transparent rhetorical trick of them all. I never said Americans don't have the right to defend themselves.

I said Americans don't torture people to defend themselves.

See the difference?

[Tigers07]

65. Assuming he was tortured.....

without any evidence. How's THAT for a transparent rhetorical trick!!

[HamdenRice]

66. The evidence is overwhelming that he was tortured

Maybe if you turn off Fox News and join the reality based community you would know this.

[Catherine Vincent]

67. Amen! n/t

[FredScuttle]

68. We don't have to assume he was detained illegally for 3+ years without a charge

Constitutional rights and protections? Ha! Not in Bush's America! :sarcasm:

Why do you hate America?