Dying to be thin.

[SoCalDem]

I am sorry if this is mistaken as "another Anna-Nicole thread", but i intended it to be another thing entirely.

It always strikes me as sad, when a young woman with a "pretty face", feels like she MUST be bone-thin to be attractive.

People near her mean well, but they often say things like .."you have such a pretty face dear, if ONLY you could drop a few pounds, you would be PERFECT".

Who does not want to be "perfect".

Shame on a society that prefers "pretty" to healthy.

In an alternate universe, poor Anna would probably be a plump-but gorgeous 39 year old woman in Texas..tending to a couple of kids, and doing an ordinary job....leading an ordinary life.

Little girls all over America (and the rest of the world too) are endangering their health by trying everything and anything to "get slim"...


and it's not ONLY aimed at women

Diet companies tout their "merchandise" 24-7, with promises of "the slim life"...."I'm in a size T W O !!!"..."I'm sexier than when I was in high school!!!"... "Now my wife doesn't think I'm as disgusting as before"!!..

The underlying message is this.. If you are not always at the optimum (by whose standards:grr: ) you are worthless, and not deserving of love and acceptance.

The companies who pimp the diet aids are probably subsidiaries of conglomerates whose "other" companies gleefully push frankenfoods loaded with empty calories and fats.

Years of yo-yo diets take a toll on the body, and I am not surprised that a 39 yr old's heart might give out. Karen Carpenter died even younger than that...she was bulimic, but the body-image issues of all these disorders are often the same. Hating ones own body has a toxic effect .

How does one GET such body image issues? Just look around..and listen to what's said.

If you are NOT gorgeous and slim, and looking 19 forever, you are NOTHING...or even less than nothing.

At some point in most people's lives, most people DO come to terms with the fact that nature intends us all to be at our best looking when we are young, and that we CAN accept aging as natural..(and accept the extra weight too), but there are always some who are willing to die trying to hang onto fleeting (or unattainable beauty).

The poor little baby girl, who's only 6 months old will now grow up as an object of a tug of war between the "two dads". She will never know her mother or her brother. Do the dads want her because she "may" inherit money her mother never lived to inherit? or will they soon tire of being Mom-Dad to her?

I always felt sorry for Anna-Nicole, and hoped she would get her life together.

[trumad]

1. She went from one extreme to another

and it seemed really quick.

[hippiechick]

5. there's no way ...

... she could have lost that much weight, that fast, without some kind of plastic surgery.
The amount of hanging skin would have made her look like a freak show exhibit.

[Katherine Brengle]

7. Loose skin after weight loss depends on a lot of factors --

she was probably like 250 at her highest, so it's not like we're talking about hundreds of lbs lost - at most she probably lost 100-130 lbs total.

Skin elasticity is primarily reliant on genetics, so some people can lose 100 lbs and have no loose skin, while some will have tons of loose skin.

I'm not sure what the time frame was for her weight loss, it did seem quick but I also didn't follow her story closely so I can't be sure. Some people can lose 100 lbs in a year healthily, some cannot...

Highly subjective.

[Nikia]

51. Not sure how fast she lost weight

When I was deep in anorexic, I was losing three pounds per week, and I was "normal weight" during that quick weight loss and not taking diet pills.
Some people have cycled through EDs in their life. She may have gotten large due to binge eating. If she took diet pills and restricted and/or purged, she probably could have lost weight faster than I did if her obese condition was caused by binging instead of a slow metabolism.

[LiberalFighter]

70. It should be done natural -- preferably

Most if not all commercial means of losing weight are either 1)scams, 2)temporary, 3)medically unsound, 4)waste of money and/or 5)deadly. By commercial I mean advertised snake oil unproven methods.

There is nothing wrong with losing weight but there is nothing wrong with maintaining your weight that a person can handle. Being bone thin is taking it too far. I remember Tracey Gold of Growing Pains. She was I thought at a good weight until she suffered from anorexia.

[Katherine Brengle]

2. K&R

So many people would be so much better off if they didn't think they had to be perfect.

I'm a huge advocate of leading a healthy lifestyle, but there is nothing healthy about the images we are expected to live up to...

:(

[Morgana LaFey]

12. That's one reason I LOVE the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty &

their "real women" models who have real bodies (tho very pretty ones) that aren't model-perfect. Oprah has had the models on her show several times.

[Katherine Brengle]

20. It's a great campaign. nt

[SoCalDem]

22. Jamie Lee Curtis did a magazine spread a while back that I loved

If I recall it was something like.. "Here's what a REAL 50 year old looks like. I think she was in her underwear, but it was totally un-airbrushed, and showed the dimples & wrinkles..

here's the pic:
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/17/Floridian/Hey__she_s__Perfect__.shtml


What is shocking about Jamie Lee's "makeunder" isn't just the sight of a real middle-aged woman in her underwear. For a post-feminist generation of women who were raised to reject artifice before they ever had anything to hide, it is a shock to learn that we have betrayed ourselves. In the struggle for liberation, the battlefield, as Germaine Greer once observed, is still our bodies. Equal partners with our husbands, at the apex of our careers, we are still undone by the sight of ourselves in the mirror. Jamie Lee, by celebrating the real, might be giving us all a lesson. If we aren't grown up enough to be cool with our real selves at 40, when is it going to happen?
—Karen von Hahn, "Flab and all," The Globe and Mail, September 7, 2002

Earliest Citation:
The makeover section, where a tatty subject is given a physical reconstruction as a pleasant way of saying "you are a total barker, get your life in order", is good viewing. It's been mooted that a refreshing change would be to see the reverse operation; a sort of makeunder.

Ms Hutton or Ms Bailey could be perfect subjects, with a "before" snap of them in their designer gear and expensive hairdos, followed by a ceremonial removal of makeup, a bad perm job from a smoking, trainee barber, and the donning of a sloppy joe and tracksuit pants.
—Tony Squires, "While daggy Clive does the Big Apple, Deb does Dior," The Sydney Morning Herald, July 30, 1994

[YOY]

3. I wouldn't be surprised if she made the Darwin Awards

Curse me for sepaking ill of the dead, but this is the ultimate clebrity news snuff-fluff about the demise of perhaps the dumbest human being possible.

Comparing her demise to the real disorder that can lead to the death of regular folks seems a bit...off the reality chart.

[Fran Kubelik]

6. really?

So once a person becomes a celebrity they cease to be real in your opinion?

And she\'s the dumbest human being possible?

Your empathy and compassion are really inspiring.

[wicket]

9. Welcome to DU!

:kick:

[Fran Kubelik]

15. thank you!

[Bluebear]

8. 'Curse me for sepaking ill of the dead' - gladly.

When she became a celebrity, did she become any less human?

[wicket]

23. Amen Bluebear

AMEN.

[mzmolly]

36. "Peace corps?"

ANS was a human being who, according to friends a "zest for life" before her son died. I heard another friend say today that "she didn't have a mean bone in her body." I guess I'd rather be dumb and kind, than smart and heartless. She was flawed and addictive. That didn't make her less human.

[crispini]

76. This returned peace corps volunteer ....

agrees with you....

[lapislzi]

67. You can't qualify for the Darwin Awards if you've reproduced.

The point of the Darwin Awards is that the recipients remove themselves from the gene pool before they've had a chance to pass on their defective genetics.

[Avalon Sparks]

95. Actually she wasn't dumb at all....

I watched ever episode of her show on E. I dunno why, I don't even watch that much TV but for some reason I watched the first episode and I remember thinking I couldn't look away and I kept watching.

Anyway, at first I thought she was pretty dumb, but then it seemed like she was on pills - like valium or something and she seemed very 'slow'. But on some segments she was really coherent and almost a completely different person - like she hadn't taken a pill yet or something. She seemed pretty bright then, and I was surprised.

As I watched more shows I realized she was pretty smart about summing up people and situations - even if she wasn't book smart and I think that she played up the dumb blonde most of the time.

I have to admit I didn't really like her before her show and watched initially I guess to kinda laugh at her. I ending up liking her a lot even though she was definitely a high maintenance kinda girl - well I am too in some ways - but not in a bitchy way - more like a cute girly way - and she could pull it off quite well. She seemed like a lot of goofy fun most of the time.

I was very sad to hear about Daniel and also sad to learn of her passing. Underneath all the drama, there was just something really sweet about her.

[wicket]

4. She was attacked mercilessly in the media when she got fat

I feel immense pity for her, and sorrow for her family.

Rest in Peace Anna.

[burythehatchet]

10. Very nicely stated...a very important issue.

[SoCalDem]

14. Thank you

It's always sad when anyone young dies..especially when they didn't have to..

The "glitz" business grinds them up and devours them when they die too.

Now we will all be subjected to All- Anna- All- the- Time for days to come..and there will be a smattering of attention paid to the roller-coaster diets she was on for most of her life, but in the end it will be about the MONEY from the lawsuit and the periferal stuff that haunted her life.

I know she made those decisions, but I owuld be willing to bet that her weight was what she thought of most often..

The fact that she did that horrible show and humiliated herself...to make money..showed how desperate she really was.

[burythehatchet]

21. in some ways she does indeed epitomize the

way in which many young people embrace an illusory existance, lacking the critical thought skills needed to avoid the hypnotic drum beat of Madison Avenue.

[SoCalDem]

29. Looks = money

and money drives the bus

[patrice]

11. She was a manifestation of everything that is wrong with U.S.

The same cultural traits that lead to Invasion of Iraq produced Anna Nicole.

Her fate is very likely our fate if we don't REALLY change what we are as a nation.

P.S. Don't misunderstand me; I think this IS very sad. She was another ultimate victim of what "we" are.

Rest in Peace Anna Nicole.

[Teaser]

13. Do we know what killed her?

Frankly, if it was my son that had passed away, I would probably not be long for this world myself.

[SoCalDem]

17. My guess would be an overdose of something or other.

perhaps not deliberate (she did have that new baby).

She had suffered from depression before, and for a long time.

We all know that rich/famous people have little trouble getting doctors to prescribe just about anything the patient wants, so perhaps she just took a lethal combination of something that led to her demise.

People up their own dosages of medication all the time and usually "get away with it".

[kimmerspixelated]

19. Losing a loved one the same day you give birth

and then continuing with TRIM SPA...who the heck knows what's in it? Sad, really sad..

[Maven]

18. No but I have to wonder if "Trimspa" had anything to do with it.

Not exactly sure how it affects the body. I do know it used to contain ephedra before that was banned.

In any case, I fully agree with the OP. Some of those Trimspa ads are still up in the subways here, showing the new, thin--and therefore, "happy"--Anna Nicole frolicking on the beach.

Very sad.

[SoCalDem]

25. I hope they take those down..

I wonder if her lawyer-husband will now sue Trimspa?

[angstlessk]

16. I do not recall which show I was watching, but two anorexics looked at each other

and each thought the other looked too thin, but they each thought themselves to be too fat...both looked like death warmed over. If not for their skin, their bones would have just been displaced. You are correct...being skinny is so socially acceptable and being 'fat' or even buxom is sinful! SHAMEFUL!

[MedleyMisty]

24. EDs

I spent a good few years on a large eating disorder board. I can tell you that a great deal of the posters had been abused and/or had a few other mental disorders.

A lot of them would say that it wasn't for some boy or to look good or to fit society's ideal. But one does wonder if we would choose the same way to act out our issues in a society that wasn't so fucked up about weight and gender and sexuality and well...pretty much everything.

[SoCalDem]

26. Yep.. just because you smile, doesn't mean you are happy.

childhood abuse can lead to mental issues and body image issues.

Lots of people try to "feed the need", then feel terrible about how they look, and how society looks at them.

People are sure complicated organisms..

[EFerrari]

32. Welcome to DU, sleebarker.

:)

[seleff]

85. Touching a raw nerve...it's really complicated

I live every day worrying as a father of an 18 y.o. who is "in recovery" after her third round of inpatient therapy in 2 years. At her worst she entered a treatment facility at 75 lbs (5'2-5'3"); this past fall it was at 88 lbs. Both times she discharged at about 102-106 lbs horrified that she was 'shamefully' fat and uncomfortable with her body. She has had anxiety/depressive episodes since 6th grade and her ED seems to be triggered by issues of poor self-esteem and feelings of inattention. We have been unable to determine where her obsession with thin-ness has come from, but she is dead certain that if she doesn't maintain control she will binge and balloon in weight. In her last IP she learned about purging and uses it as a threat to get us (her parents) to "back-off" if she perceives that we are expressing concern and worry about her losing weight from restricting or over-exercising (she runs 45 min every day and does 2-3 60 min dance classes each week). ED's are a dreadful disease, and it's not just stemming from societal and media images. Mt daughter does not emulate models or anything like that. Co-morbid depression and anxiety seem to be common threads (I spent alot of time around the ED clinic this time as it was local, and listened to the women alot). It is like a demon that has grabbed hold of their life and won't let go.

Check out the HBO documentary "Thin" by lauren Greenfield that ran this fall (www.thindocumentary.com) to get a flavor for the hell that comes with EDs. It still shows from time to time, or it is available from Amazon or it has been posted in about 9 segments on Youtube. My daughter was at the Renfrew Center where it as filmed and is pictured in Greenfield's accompanying photobook with the same title. I wish she were past this, but she's dropping weight again (although happy about her life at least some days).

If ANS suffered from ED and was purging, I'm sorry for the pain she had to go through.

I lost both my parents this fall. My worst fear is that my daughter won't make it to her 21st birthday

[SoCalDem]

86. Hugs to you all.. Just keep plugging away at it.

My friends thought their 19 year old daughter would not make it, but she did and she's still "ok" 4 years later.

The key to her "recovery" (oddly enough) was when her friend started having babies. At first she looked at them gaining weight, and was repulsed by it, but her therapy helped her see her body as a "machine of sorts" and food was the fuel... and to have a baby, the body needed extra fuel.

Sounds simple, but for her it was a lightbulb moment.. She and her boyfriend are planning their weddiing, and at 23 she seems to have things looking up for her.. I know it's not an easy thing to "cure" and the demons may haunt her again, but she's determined to stay well for the children she plans to have..

I hope for good things for you and your daughter :hug:

[seleff]

87. Thanks!!!! eom

[proud patriot]

27. as a woman I faced the struggle too

as a teenager I made some BAD choices in the hopes
of losing wait . I still struggle with self image issues .
but am living healthier and have accepted that I won't
be a toothpick ever . I try to focuss on muscle tone
more that what the scale reads .

I'm weak when it comes to fast food x(

[SoCalDem]

28. I'm with you!

I figured out a long time ago, that I will NEVER EVER again be that 103 lb 20 yr old, and as long as I can find clothes to fit, and people don't throw up when they see me, I'm ok with that :)

[kineneb]

35. stress/antidepressant weight increase

is so common, yet people don't realize the cause. Dieting is only of slight use; it simply stresses the body more.

I will never be 130 lb. again; at 5'9" I would settle for a robust but healthy 175. Since I don't seem to be able to lose the extra 25 lbs. I carry around, I intend to rejoice in the body type of my ancestral Valkyries..."with my spear and magic helmet" and 107/76 blood pressure.

Skinny is not necessarily healthy.

[proud patriot]

60. Huzzah !

That's a great and healthy attitude to have . :hug:

[Qanisqineq]

68. I made too many bad choices too

And I am now paying the consequences -- my hormones are completely messed up from starving myself as a teenager and in my twenties. I started having chest pains from taking 5 to 10 dexatrim (when dexatrim still contained the "good" stuff) back in high school. My teeth are now in horrible shape from forcing myself to vomit 3x a day in my 20's. I wasn't even overweight to begin with but I always had to be smaller. I am still so self-conscious about my body that I don't like to go out some days but because my hormones are all messed up now I can't lose these 25 lbs. no matter how hard I try.

I can't help but feel so bad for Anna Nicole Smith.

[EFerrari]

30. Guilty. And in 1987, I remember reading that 40% of fourth grade girls

in San Francisco were on a diet. :wow: You don't even get to be a kid before you have to be a figure. :wow:

I'm afraid to update that number.

/oops

[SoCalDem]

31. My friend's SIX YEAR OLD daughter did not want a plaid skirt

because "plaid makes you look fat" :eyes:

[EFerrari]

33. OMG. That's horrendous. And of course plaid makes you look fat.

So do horizontal stripes.

I wish there was some way to excise from the brain this cr@p we learn. Never will forget when I achieved my weight goal and my then young husband said to me, "I thought you looked great before." Isn't that awful?

A big :hug: for women whose body image waffles on them. And for the children. :(

[SoCalDem]

34. An old man once told me this..and I often think of it.,

His wife was about 80, and we were all talking about getting old and he said:
"When I look at her, my mind's-eye still sees her that day we met, when she was 16..she's always been 16 to me".

Love makes people look good to their partner, no matter how they look to the rest of us.

[EFerrari]

63. So true. Love projects with fairy dust. Thank heavens.

lol

[wicket]

55. I was in 4th grade in 1988

That sounds about right :(

[EFerrari]

61. I have three nieces under 14. They're drop dead gorgeous

all three of them. And I'm afraid to ask. :scared:

[wicket]

65. At my bf's sister's wedding....

At my bf's sister's wedding last summer, I sat at a table with several of his female cousins. They were all barely nibbling on the food for the rehearsal dinner & they told me they were on diets. The youngest one was 7!!! So sad.

[EFerrari]

90. It really tells you about how much this culture is just plain old scared

of women.

What are we going to do, bite them? Sheeeeeeeh.

At 50, I'm still fighting that flipping body image thing. It's ridiculous already. And my nieces deserve to have their childhood which is every day being stolen from them by the corporate media.

There's something here about disabling women to just plain keep the people down in general, imho. I think that's the bigger picture that gets inscribed on the bodies of our young women.

And they take it on as their "fault" somehow. That makes me really, really mad.

/oops

[mzmolly]

37. As women we really have to take back our "beauty." We have to go Tyra Banks on this society.

I'm reading this book now: Zaftig: The Case for Curves

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/1883211174.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

The book speaks about the changing standard of beauty over the decades/centuries. The author uses art from the ages to demonstrate that female beauty standards actually used to be "realistic." Now we have the Paris Hilton/Nicole Richie generation who are struggling with bulimia and drug abuse in order to become complete objects.

I think it's time for a mass rebellion, personally. We as women, need to refuse to support designers etc. who don't support women being "women." We come in all shapes and sizes, and as they say, variety IS the spice of life.

On to Anna Nicole. Very tragic, I used to tune in to her reality show from time to time. I admit to watching for the train wreck effect, but if there is one thing I "respected" it was her "realness." She was who she was, and didn't care who liked it. I liked that about her. Of course, when her son died, she lost her zest for life, and became severely depressed. You could see she was missing in action. Her soul was half gone.

RIP Anna Nicole.

[SoCalDem]

40. please read this article..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=159311&mesg_id=159943

[mzmolly]

45. I love Jamie Lee for that.

And, I adore Diane Keaton for vowing never to have plastic surgery.

I think it's great to read what the men had to say.

Thomas Chiffriller, 36, also a student barber, comes over wearing a regulation black robe and carrying a broom. He hears the question and asks warily, "You want to know if, as a man, I like it? - I applaud it," he says. "I think it's neat. I wish more women were happy with their appearance."

[Lorien]

43. A close friend of mine is an ex-supermodel

she says that she never knew any woman in the modeling world who was NOT anorexic, bulimic, or a drug abuser (herself included). Unnatural methods of remaining unnaturally thin were the only way to achieve what the fashion world demanded...and this was back in the 1970s. It's even worse now.

Fortunately, most of the men I know prefer "real" women with curves. But I find it a bit odd that many of my female friends still believe that there's no such thing as being "too thin".

[SoCalDem]

46. Sad isn't it? I "blame" the clothing industry for a lot of it.

They changed women's sizing for clothing, and all of a sudden a size 12 became "plus", and the smaller sizes became even weirder.. Why would anyone want to be a size ZERO?..(to disappear, maybe?)

What kids of today don;t even realize is that the size "chee-eeew" (2) they covet today would measure up to be a 10 or 12 that their Moms & Grandmas wore..and Plus sizes used to start at 18 back then ..

It's all just a numbers game anyway..The more expensive the garment, the more "generous' the cut..

a size 14 that fits, makes a woman look thinnner than to jam themselves into a sausage-casing size 10..

[mzmolly]

50. I'd love to see former models work to change the industry.

I am glad to see the trend away from heroine chic in some fashion arenas as well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14748549/

Spanish fashion show rejects too-skinny models - Women with very low body-mass index not allowed on runway

[SoCalDem]

54. I think Italy and Brazil are on board too.

and I have seen some older models speaking out...but as long as the "big money" goes to emaciated 14 yr olds with tons of makeup, not much will change

[LiberalFighter]

71. Most if not all of those models are way too skinny

They don't represent the average women.

[Neecy]

38. it's a real balancing act...

First of all, that women who crows about being a size "te-ewww" and horse laughs throughout the ad is one of the biggest idiots on television. I despise that commercial!

I'd rather have these people promote the health benefits of their diet rather than having these ninnies brag about their sex lives or being 'trophy wives'. Obesity is a serious problem in our society and creates tremendous health risks but these diet companies decide to promote the beauty aspect of losing weight - and this is a dangerous concept to young men and women who may be prone to EDs. Very irresponsible ----

[SoCalDem]

39. There's scant money to be made by making commercials that say:

Eat less junk food, exercise, don't drink alcoholic beverages (empty calories)..

Those are all things that most people can do without spending $100 a week on "delicious food delivered right to your doorstep".:grr:

[mzmolly]

41. You said it! She's fargen obnoxious!

If my husband EVER referred to me as a "trophy wife" he'd get a @#$ trophy upside the head.

Here's my new philosophy: http://www.intuitiveeating.com/

I went on my last diet in January 2007. I have lost two pounds since I've stopped dieting and depriving myself. Through out my life, I've been all over the scale. My thinnest was 102 pounds in my 20's at about 5'5" tall. It's been feast or famine. Since my 20's I've been up and down on the scale. I'm tired of the cycle. I'm 40ish and I'm done with diets, period. (Gawd help me.)

Thankfully, love is blind in the case of my husband. He seems to appreciate my "curves." ;) I wish every women had a husband who thought baseball hats, sweats and a few extra pounds were attractive.

[Left Is Write]

42. I agree with your points, but have just one small quibble.

Karen Carpenter was anorexic, not bulimic.

[SoCalDem]

44. Oops.. You are right... It's been so long ago, and bulimia seems to be in the news more

I forgot :(

It's so sad to think of her wonderful voice silenced..all because she thought she was fat..

My friend's daughter went through anorexia & bulimia and it darned near ruined their family. She was uninsured (not in school and past 18), and her Mom & dad had to take 2nd jobs to pay for her treatment.. But it seems to have worked. She's healthy again, and I think she's going to be ok. (I hope so)

[mzmolly]

48. She was both anorexic and bulimic as many girls who suffer from E.D. are.

I posted a reply to the reply below. :hi:

[mzmolly]

47. She was both from what I've read?

I heard that ipecac had a role in her passing?

After six years of battling this disease, Karen looked as though she was on the road to recovery. She gained fifteen pounds and she was proudly telling everyone. Unfortunately the ipecac syrup she took to induce vomiting and the thyroid medicine to increase her heart rate to burn calories, took its toll on her, permanently damaging her heart.

http://www.morbid-curiosity.com/id127.htm

[gratefultobelib]

49. Coping with eating disorders is difficult to say the least, and I speak from experience.

[femrap]

52. I wish our pathetic patriarchial culture

would devote half the time on development of sharp mind, good heart, and a kind soul as it does on pushing shapely bodies.

[Nikia]

53. In my personal experience and of other ED people who I have met

Anorexia and bulimia are not really about looking beautiful exactly. It can be about a lot of different things.
The place where society comes in is that it equates thinness with goodness, achievement, and discipline. Many people with eating disorders feel that they are worthless, unsuccessful, bad, and cannot seem to accomplish the goals that they most want. Becoming thin seems to be a soltion to some of those problems. Society also contributions by making it normal for people who are not obese to go on diets. This increases the chance that suspeptible individuals will continue to restrict indefinitely just like people suseptible to alcoholism become alcoholics by drinking alcohol. It also makes it difficult to catch in its early stages because it is "normal" for girls 10 pounds over the low end of BMI to diet to lose those pounds. The anorexic may also receive positive reinforcement from others as they lose weight until they are really hurt themselves. Society also makes recovery harder because everyone seems to be saying that there was nothing wrong with what you were doing and that it was good.

[Missy Vixen]

56. Thank you, SoCalDem

I heard the results of a study a couple of years back that had an overwhelming number of women say that they'd give up one year of their lives to be constantly thin.

I know exactly how they feel. I'd like to go about my business for just one day without dealing with what I deal with on a daily basis as a less-than-svelte woman.

Julie

[rzr77]

57. heh. I get criticized by thin women for only liking curves (hips, thighs, butt, breasts)

When ANS first hit the scene guy like me were esctatic; finally a bodacious womanly body, instead of the emaciated, fashion model type.

I think in general, most guys like curvy - porn stars are way curvier than the fashion models women seem to idolize.

ANS did get too heavy during the time period of her reality show - though she went to overly drastic, perhaps unhealthy, measures to lose the weight. She did look good after she lost it though, can't lie about that.

[SoCalDem]

58. What's really sad is that it didn't used to be that way.. Google and you'll see

that most girls in any graduating class before the mid 80's would be considered "fat" by today's standards,,

[Missy Vixen]

62. Oh, yeah

>that most girls in any graduating class before the mid 80's would be considered "fat" by today's standards,,<

I'm 5'4". I graduated in '79. I weighed 140 pounds in high school, wore a size 10-12, and thought I was too FAT. I look at my photos and see that I wasn't fat - I was healthy and happy.

Julie

[SoCalDem]

64. I always laugh when I think of my vain friend who ordered a Dior suit

from a vintage website. It was a size 6.. She wears a "4", so of course she thought it would be TOO BIG for her and she would have to have it altered.. I didn't say a word..

When the suit came, she would have needed a shoehorn to get into that skirt.:rofl:

Luckily for her, Dior had a very generous selvage, and there was enough fabric to make it fit her butt, but she had to have the waistband removed and have an elastic waistband put in so she could sit in it. The jacket she was never able to button..

:rofl:

[Beausoir]

73. Me too! I'd love to have my high school body back. Can't believe I thought I was fat.

I'm 5'9 and I weighed 160 in h.s. It was all curves, too.

I starved myself to maintain that weight. I ate nothing.

[rzr77]

75. Damn, it sounds like you were "built like a brick house"

Tall and curvy. :loveya:

Nothing sexier than an imposing, hourglass figure. :loveya:

[Beausoir]

78. It's my favorite song!

My husband sure went for it!

[Scout]

77. sounds like me

I'm 5-4, and weighed 145 in 9th grade, and was told and believed that i was fat.

I'd (almost) kill to be that weight now!

[wicket]

59. I feel the same way about men

Bones are for dogs! :D

[RebelOne]

66. I always have believed that diet pills killed my sister.

All her life she had a weight problem. When she started taking prescription diet pills in the mid-'90s, she lost an enormous amount of weight. So, to maintain her weight, she continued to take them. Well, she died a few years ago of kidney cancer. I am sure that those pills contributed to her death. She was only 54.

[davsand]

69. Body image is the bane of so many women--and it starts SO young!

I am serious like a heart attack when I say that Material Girl was FOUR and in pre-school and she came home one day and asked me if I thought she needed to go on a diet.

Yep, you read that correctly, my FOUR year old was worried she was "too fat."

I was about ready to have kittens I was so pissed off. I immediately asked her (as sanely as possible given how freaked out I was) where on earth she'd even gotten that idea from. Her response was she'd heard the teachers talking about how fat they were and their diets. She thought it was what "real women" are supposed to do.

We had a conversation about body image and being a woman and that healthy is the ONLY goal "real women" should ever have.

Now it is five years later and I have taken off about 35 pounds with a cardiac friendly eating plan. Kevsand had a heart attack in late May and we go to the gym about four days a week--as a family. Our eating habits have changed, our lifestyle has changed and we look a lot different as a result.

While his heart attack was no fun, and I can honestly say that exercise is NOT really addictive (trust me--I am certain I CAN quit any time I want to!) it has been amazing to me how many people have commented on how good we are looking. I always knew that being overweight was an 800 pound gorilla in the corner socially, but this is simply staggering to me. People really LIKE to see thinner bodies in a way that is absolutely terrifying to behold.

I lost weight and began an exercise program for health related reasons, for both myself AND to support my husband. Yet, it is universally seen as some sort of quest to be better looking or to improve my social acceptability. Wow.

The entire time we've been talking to Material Girl and we are explaining to her what Cardiac Health is, and what role diet plays in health as a whole. We are working to embed in her the idea that you are physically active because it makes you healthier and makes you live longer and better. We have been talking about food choices and why many sugars are not a good food choice and WHY you need to choose things that provide nutrients rather than only a sweet or salty taste.

I finally realized we'd done it right when we were watching TV one night and that diet commercial came on with the bubble-head who managed to get down to a size "Tu-Ooooo." Material Girl looked at the before picture and said, "What was wrong with her before? She looks healthy to me in that Before Picture..."

If I am anywhere with Material Girl and somebody makes a comment on how "good and how thin" I look I explain that it is rooted in a health decision rather than one of vanity. I'll admit it is nice to have more energy, and it is nice to be able to pay for clothing in places other than a specialty store, but I sure as hell didn't do this because of vanity.

I've recently grown my hair out to the longest it has been since 1976. I actually am using a blow dryer and hair spray now (Gawd, I HATE that part of it!) THIS decision is rooted in vanity. Weight loss and working out is not.

SoCal, you are dead on when you talk about women and body image and how some of us are killing ourselves to fit some externally enforced image of what "beauty" is. All any of us can do about it, however, is to educate our own daughters and all the other daughters, about what the real image of beauty is.

Regards,


Laura

[SoCalDem]

72. Wow,Laura.. i did not know about Kevin's heart attack

I am SOOO glad he's ok, and you are all getting healthy :) Someday before i die, i promise myself to try that too :)

[Missy Vixen]

74. Davsand, I hope for improved health for all of you!

Thank you so much for your comments. Your little girl is lucky to have you both, and I know she will grow up with a healthy body image. I'm thrilled to read that the exercise and cardiac diet is doing so much good at your house, too.

>I always knew that being overweight was an 800 pound gorilla in the corner socially, but this is simply staggering to me.<

It's always surprising, isn't it? I have read those so many times who insist that they are concerned about the fat only from a "health" standpoint, but wait a short time, and the nasty comments start coming out.

It's not a health thing. It's an appearance thing. We don't fit in, therefore, we're less than human, and it's okay (okay? Hell, it's encouraged,) to treat us as such.
Julie

[saracat]

79. I am gonna get flamed I am sure but I see nothing wrong in looking as good as you can forever!

I don't see accepting aging and "extra weight" as natural. For me, I would consider it "lazy". I work hard to maintain my weight and I am not a kid. I weigh less than I did in high school and I want to keep it that way, thank you.I also would consider plastic surgery if I really needed it.I have several friends who are the same age as I am that are overweight and look older.I have tried to help them but they would rather eat whatever they want and be overweight.It is their choice, but I have made my choice and I resent the tone of the OP that implies those of us who care about our weight are victims of society.Anna Nicole looked gorgeous when she lost the weight and looking for reasons to blame her death on her weight loss is just searching for a defense for obese America.
I do not defend anorexia or bulimia but obesity is every bit as dangerous and some seem to excuse it.It is just as much as a disease and as likely fatal as being too thin!

[Scout]

80. Why do you feel you have to look young even when you are not?

could it be societal pressure? do you feel older women are worthless unless they "look young"? Do you get your self worth from what other people think about you? You may look good on the outside, but how's your blood pressure? cholesterol? triglycerides? are you strong and fit? are you flexible?

I think you are conceited and sadly misinformed about the "dangers" of being overweight.

I have several friends who are the same age as I am that are overweight and look older.I have tried to help them but they would rather eat whatever they want and be overweight.
Judgmental much? I'm glad I don't have any friends like you... You assumed they wanted your "help" or did they ask for it?

[saracat]

81. It is not "conceited" to want to be the best you can be for yourself!

I don't think one has to look "young" but I think we have an obligation to ourselves and our families to be the best we can. As for my health, thank you for inquiring. My cholesterol and triglycerides and my blood pressure are fine. I am flexible and do yoga. As for my friends, they asked me for help but then kept eating.You might be interested to know that one friend has dangerously high cholesterol and refuses to take her meds. I have begged her to at least eat properly but she exists on junk food and fries!You ask why I feel I have to look young when I am not? I don't "have" to look any way.It is what I choose to do. I am not bowing to societal pressure and I certainly don't think women are "worthless" unless they look young. I don't look "young" but if I needed an eye lift to help me see or a face lift to make me feel "refreshed' I would do it if I could afford it.I wouldn't look young but how you feel also counts! I do feel that it is a reflection on some if they don't take care of themselves! And I am not uniformed or exaggerating the health risks of obesity.If you don't believe me I suggest you listen to Bill Clinton who is such a stalwart advocate against childhood obesity. Obesity is far more of an epidemic in this country than is under-eating.Both are serious conditions. And if I really determined my self worth about what other people thought I wouldn't post on DU!
;-)

[blonndee]

93. Thank you...with "friends" like that...

well, you know. :eyes:

Obviously the OP was about excesses and unhealthy (emotional and physical) pressures that are based upon ideals that are largely unattainable. Why someone would take this as some sort of attack on being healthy--thin or otherwise--makes no sense. And as Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it's not true! :) So I tentatively conclude that such protests have more to do with, as you say, conceit, or more likely, a need to prove something. Perhaps something along the lines of..."I'm NOT one of you." But that's just speculation, of course.

[SoCalDem]

82. No flames here.. I'm sorry you resent my feelings. I never said that obesity was "acceptable"

or desirable.. What upsets me is how some people feel pressured to always try to fight what is just Mother Nature exerting her plan for us.

Most people reach their "peak" in their late teens/early twenties, and no amount of dieting/plastic surgery will retain that blush of youth & vigor.

I have seen many 30/40 somethings ruin their health by dieting to excess, trying to recapture what is gone forever.

And I have seen very young girls humiliated because their body type is not "skin & bones".

There's a lot of difference between OBESITY and OVERWEIGHT.

And even people who are obese, usually benefit from a carefully planned program for weight-loss, than a series of pill-induced crash & burn diets. Our society "values" fast & easy, and those two things are not in sync with weight loss.

I am glad I had sons...and I am also glad they inherited their Dad's body type..but even having said that, we always taught them that all they had to do was to look at nature.. Not ALL trees are redwoods, and not all animals are giraffes. Variety is perfectly acceptable in humans too, and that they were not going to everyone's "perfect someone" either.

Words can cut as deep as a knife, and too many women ruin their health/lives from trying to "measure up" to images they cannot attain and keep...and live a happy life at the same time.

What you are doing works for you, and I congratulate you on it, but the "success" and proliferation of the diet "industry" shows that you may be the exception to the rule .:hi:

[saracat]

83. Actually, I agree with you. But I see far to many people

who use the celebrity anorexic trend as their own excuse not to lose weight.Hey I used to call myself "ruebenesque" when I gained weight and said I was healthy not anorexic! What I was was not motivated.You are correct about the difference between overweight and obesity but neither is disesrable.That being said no one weight or body type is right for everyone.All I am saying is that each should be the best they can be for themselves no matter what body type or age they are and not use a "celebrity" death as an excuse for lack of motivation. I agree with you about the diet industry as well.It is too bad they don't have a self esteem industry instead.I believe many overweight people would then "naturally shed the excess pounds!

I don't agree with you that people "peak" in their 20's and its downhill from there.I know lots of people who are in better shape in their 50's than they were in their 20's. But it does take work and most fols don't want to work that hard. I don't! But being fit is not something that has to be "gone forever". You may not be young but you can be healthy enough to enjoy life.I think of Sofia Loren, who in her 70's is still absolutely gorgeous and puts the young girls to shame!

[SoCalDem]

84. "Peak" is meant in an evolutionary sense. Early adulthood is when

everything's working at tip-top function. People can and do LOOK good well beyond that time, but ask any woman who was pregnant at 22 and then again at 39.. The first one will usually be a breeze compared to the later one. again I am talking about MOST women,...not the lucky ones with good genes and good early-life/childhood habits.

I'm a prime example .. ALL MY LIFE (well most of it) I had the one great thing happening.. I had the flattest stomach ever (even after 3 c-sections in a 5 years span). I could cope with the thigh/butt "thing" ( I have that in my heritage)...but within a few years after menopause I developed what my doctor jokingly referred to a "buddha-belly".. I was MORTIFIED (as well as just plain uncomfortable).

I had to get rid of clothes I loved and had worn for DECADES...my favorite ole raggedy jeans:cry:..

NOTHING I DO (or did) would rid me of this damned belly. I swear, sometimes I would DREAM about it..:)

All my old stuff still "fit" except for the fact that there was no way in hell I could zip/button/snap or even GET some of them over that damned belly.

I am 57 now, and I have accepted it..I am in NO WAY happy about it, but ..there ya go.. a concave belly is a thing of the past for me, and I have learned how to dress with it..I still hate it, but as I look arouns, I see many women my age with a similar "affliction", so I know I have lots of company.

I could beat myself up about it, but then I look at pictures of my elder female relatives..and y'know what? They had it too .. Damn genes.. I prefer my old levis.:)(pun intended)

[saracat]

88. I hear ya! I have always had the butt and thigh thing but

the good news is after bemoaning them all through my youth, they improved considerably in my "older years".I sort of think it is almost too late to do any good but I am resolved to enjoy myself anyway.Better late than never is my moto.LOL! It reaches a point we only have to please ourselves and no one else.For instance Mr.Saracat would love me to have long hair but I feel I look better with short hair sooo,I have short hair.Some people think I am too thin, others just right.I like me.Can't please everyone.
I always remind myself the treachery and experience trump youth and beauty every time and I am quite happy to be me!
You sound like a wise and happy person and that is all we can really hope for!

[SoCalDem]

89. The butt/thigh thing..

Even when i weighed 103, and wore a sz3, my butt called out for a sz 5 :)

[saracat]

91. Absolutely! Me too! Always! Actually that is really good!

I am always 2 sizes more on the bottom no matter how thin I am! I went a on Stillmans in HB and went down to 105 at %'6 and still was a 5 in pants but smaller in tops! Go figure! But still I am happy! Grin! LOL! My waist is at last way smaller than my thighs!

[SoCalDem]

92. You know I still "hate" you

:P..

my "waist" is long gone. It would take a team of archaeologists and some sharp knives to find it at this point :)

[saracat]

94. BTW, I meant to say "High School" instead of HB. I will never see 105 again nor do I want to!

I look like a concentation camo victim or a frilled toothpick, take your choice.It was hideous!