Putting the SURGE in perspective. The data we need prior to September's snowjob.

[skip fox]

We need a two year month-by-month graph plotting several lines such as these:

# of Americans/Coalition Troops KIA
# of Americans/Coalition Troops wounded
# of Iragis killed
# of Iraqis wounded
# of Iraqi refugees leaving country
# of Iraqi refugees internally displaced
# of IED attacks on American/Coalition Forces
# of Iraqis kidnapped and tortured, found dumped
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to insurgency
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to al Quaeda

Does anyone have links to reliable sources of such information?

[JeffR]

1. This site might be useful:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[skip fox]

2. Exactly. I'll put together a file of such links and try to collect the numbers.

I'll print to DU periodically, providing links and numbers.

Maybe someone can offer to to a graph or two.

(I used to do this at DU for Harkengate, Halliburton, etc.)

[skip fox]

3. Already a FLAW in the way they look at the data:

09/06 10/06 11/06 12/06 01/07 02/07 03/07 04/07 05/07 06/07 07/07 08/07

00075*00108*00076*00113*00086*00084*00084*00116*00129*00108*00088*0040+

3,539*1,539*1,864**1,752*1,802*3,014**2,977*1,821*1,980**1,345*1,690*00599+



Note: Aug. is slightly less than 1/2 over.
Data does not include non-Iraqi contractor deaths, or any wounded or refuge data.

Whereas American deaths declined by nearly 21 deaths from the average of the previous two months 128 & 108) the Iraqi deaths increased by almost 20 deaths from the average of the previous two months (1,345 & 1,690), which makes the overall killing pretty level from May to the present.


Checking the site below or going over the data I collected above might prove many useful observations, the type we might want to begin learning to make, the kind reporters SHOULD be doing. (Listening Keith?)




From:

Iraq Coalition Casualty Count:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[JeffR]

5. Keep in mind that US casualties have been lower each July

over the past few years. Someone recently posted a chart that showed this. Wish I'd bookmarked it.

[skip fox]

6. Yes, we need links to sites that may have charts. Or maybe someone

at DU is putting all this together already????

But it's the time to see what is out there and what we have so far in preperation for the Sept. report which will likely try to gild the pig so to speak.

[JeffR]

8. Good charts of US casualties at the bottom of this page:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

[JeffR]

9. The bottom chart here is what I saw on DU the other day:

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html

[skip fox]

4. How can I present the data in better rows &c.

I'm not very good with computers.

[JeffR]

7. Short of using a chart

it might be better to show the time vertically, with columns for casualties to the right of each month.

eg.

MONTH US Iraqi

02/07 86 1,802

03/07 84 3,014

You can improve the spacing by inserting <sp> tags to separate columns, but use square brackets, not arrow brackets.

[skip fox]

10. JeffR, Great! I'm adding these and will try the vertical table soon. Preview function will help.

Here's what I added. I'll post the entire tomorrow and then every day or so, keeping it easy to use. (Unless someone else is already doing this?)


Great graphs focusing on US causalities here:

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html



And here is a table of US deaths and two graphs of US killed and wounded:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

[JeffR]

11. Good for you for keeping this front and center

:toast:

[skip fox]

12. Like this?

********US/UK deaths***Iraqi deaths


Sept. 2006*****75*****3539
Oct. 2006*****108*****1539
Nov. 2006******76*****1864
Dec. 2006*****113*****1752
Jan. 2006******86*****1802
Feb. 2007******84*****3014
Mar. 2007******84*****2977
Apr. 2007*****116*****1821
May 2007*****129*****1980
June 2007*****108*****1345
July 2007******88*****1690
Aug. 2007*****40+*****599+

[JeffR]

17. If you use tags

substituting square brackets for < and >, you'll get white space between the columns.

[skip fox]

18. I tried, but it doesn't work. Here's how I now have it:

We need to collect data in preparation for the September whitewash, especially when we see the surge touted as working even when we have over a 100 Iraqis killed in explosions, like yesterday. See links, below. This will probably become a links source for DU (esp. since I can’t present the data easily).


The numbers of US/UK and Iraqi deaths in last year:

Dead: | US/UK | Iraqi


09/06 | 75 | 3,539

10/06 | 108 | 1,539

11/06 | 76 | 1,864

12/06 | 113 | 1,752

01/07 | 86 | 1,802

02/07 | 84 | 3,014

03/07 | 82 | 2,977

04/07 | 116 | 1,821

05/07 | 129 | 1,980

06/07 | 108 | 1,345

07/07 | 87 | 1,690

08/07 | 45+ | 599+ (over 175 more on Tues.!)

[JeffR]

22. Apologies, skip

I was giving you the wrong tag for non-breaking space. It should be : sp :, but remove the spaces between "sp" and the colons. Sorry!

[skip fox]

25. I'm trolling for links to data/stats sites on Iraqi War. Please send. I've finally learned

How best to present the data:



Dead: | US/UK | Iraqi


09/06  |  75   |  3,539

10/06  | 108  |  1,539

11/06  |  76   |  1,864

12/06  |  113  | 1,752

01/07  |  86   | 1,802

02/07  |  84   |  3,014

03/07  |  82   |  2,977

04/07  |  116  |  1,821

05/07  |  129  |  1,980

06/07  |  108  |  1,345

07/07  |  87   |  1,690

08/07  |  45+ |  599+ ( and over 200 more just yesterday)

[skip fox]

13. I want to get this ramped up before school starts back next week.

This is all I have so far. I can't make the tabs work. Perhaps I'll learn.

********US/UK deaths***Iraqi deaths


Sept. 2006*****75*****3539
Oct. 2006*****108*****1539
Nov. 2006******76*****1864
Dec. 2006*****113*****1752
Jan. 2006******86*****1802
Feb. 2007******84*****3014
Mar. 2007******84*****2977
Apr. 2007*****116*****1821
May 2007*****129*****1980
June 2007*****108*****1345
July 2007******88*****1690
Aug. 2007*****40+*****599+


Note: Aug. is slightly less than 1/2 over.
Data does not include non-Iraqi contractor deaths, or any wounded or refugee data.

NOTE: Whereas American deaths declined by nearly 21 deaths from the average of the previous two months (128 & 108) the Iraqi deaths increased by almost 20 deaths from the average of the previous two months (1,345 & 1,690), which makes the overall killing pretty level from May to the present.

Checking the site below or going over the data I collected above might prove many useful observations, the type we might want to begin learning to make, the kind reporters SHOULD be doing. (Listening Keith?)


From:

Iraq Coalition Casualty Count:

http://icasualties.org/oif /


But we need more links. Links for more reliable data so that we might create something like a two year month-by-month graph plotting several lines:

# of Americans/Coalition Troops KIA
# of Americans/Coalition Troops wounded
# of Iragis killed
# of Iraqis wounded
# of Iraqi refugees leaving country
# of Iraqi refugees internally displaced
# of IED attacks on American/Coalition Forces
# of Iraqis kidnapped and tortured, found dumped
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to insurgency
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to al Quaeda



Great graphs focusing on US causalities here:

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html



And here is a table of US deaths and two graphs of US killed and wounded:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

[gratuitous]

14. And not just the body counts

We should be demanding -- now -- verifiable numbers for things like reliable electricity, schools and hospitals that an American would recognize as open for business (rather than someplace that looks okay for two hours with massive patrols around it), and so on. Because you and I both know what is going to happen: No matter what September looks like in Iraq, if it's still a patch of land you can find on a globe, the Bushies will declare "acceptable progress" and stay the course through January 2009. Anyone who says differently just doesn't like progress or whatever.

You could hear it last night when Kristol was talking to Jon Stewart: Give us a chance, you haven't given us a chance. As if they haven't been prosecuting this mismanaged debacle from the outset. "Sure, we've screwed the pooch for over four years, but now we're getting it right." Of course, during all that time the pooch was being screwed, folks like Kristol and his ilk were denying anything was wrong then, too. A year from now or three years from now, they'll finally admit that the 2007 surge was just more dicking around, but things didn't really start going to shit until the Democrats finally pulled us out of this sucking sinkhole of a quagmire.

Just you watch.

[skip fox]

15. Yes, that data AND data on governmental progress (that which is quantifiable).

Great idea! A master file of data on Iraq situation. I can collect links and put them in order, but as the above indicates, I'm not great at displaying data.

So if anyone has links (or a site) that includes any of the numbers everyone has suggested, please send them to me on this discussion, I'll compile and post tomorrow even more . . .

Onward . . .

[skip fox]

16. Reminder: Please send data links.

:)

[rodeodance]

19. try this linkK (or email him)

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject taking the hill
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1585015#1585015
1585015, taking the hill
Posted by rodeodance on Tue Aug-14-07 01:30 PM

or NOT!-------look at the stat!




.......... Number of unidentified bodies, assumedly murdered by death squads, found on the streets of Baghdad in June: 453, a rise of 41% over January, the month before "surge" operations began, according to unofficial Iraqi Health Ministry statistics taken from morgue counts. ..........

........... Percentage of water engineers who have left Iraq: 40%, according to Oxfam's report. Similar percentages of middle-class professionals - doctors, teachers, lawyers - have evidently fled as well. According to Oxfam, some universities and hospitals in Baghdad have lost up to 80% of their staffs. ..........

............ Increase in bombs dropped in Iraq in the first six months of 2007 compared with the
first six months of 2006: Fivefold. ...........


........ Estimated total cost of the Iraq war, if Robert Sunshine's "optimistic scenario" - 30,000 US troops left in Iraq by 2010 - plays out: More than $1 trillion. (If his less optimistic scenario proves accurate - 75,000 troops in 2010 - closer to $1.5 trillion.)
.........

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH15Ak03.html


DISPATCHES FROM AMERICA
Escalation in Iraq by the numbers
By Tom Engelhardt
Aug 15, 2007

.......................

Here, then, is escalation in Iraq by the numbers - almost all of them continue to "surge" - as of mid-August 2008:

[skip fox]

24. Great! Not all stats are in graphs, and this article has MANY good ones.

It will be well annotated. I love the material on contractors, costs, # of attacks, etc.

[Breeze54]

20. Check the replies to your posts today.

A whole bunch of stuff was posted, last I checked.

Check Unhappy Camper's diary.

[malaise]

21. The Oxfam report should be helpful

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/bp105_iraq.html

[skip fox]

23. I'll be collecting links this morning and will have a post which

will annotate the material in each (I'm an old biblographer) with hot links available. A research instrument. Then each person will have the data and can interpret it form him or herself. And we can all make observations. And most importantly, when the administration spin kicks in, esp. on Fox, we'll have all the information that is reliable and public.

I realize my incapacity with computers, so I will not try to present the data, but maybe someone else could do that.


Ideally we could have one a two year month-by-month graph plotting several lines such as these:

# of Americans/Coalition Troops KIA
# of Americans/Coalition Troops wounded
# of Iragis killed
# of Iraqis wounded
# of Iraqi refugees leaving country
# of Iraqi refugees internally displaced
# of IED attacks on American/Coalition Forces
# of Iraqis kidnapped and tortured, found dumped
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to insurgency
# of American deaths and serious injuries attributed to al Quaeda

and another few graphs to show all the other indicators listed in the posts above.


I'll post all links, but am especially after those unassailable by the right and Fox.