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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 07:52 AM
Original message
Incarcerated Youth
"We are faced with evil. I feel rather like Augustine did before becoming a Christian when he said, ‘I tried to find the source of evil and I got nowhere. But it is also true that I and a few others knew what must be done if not to reduce evil at least not to add to it.’ Perhaps we cannot prevent this world from being a world in which children are tortured. But we can reduce the number of tortured children. And if you believers don’t help us, who else in the world can help us do this?" – Albert Camus


My younger son recently started a job in a "youth facility" that houses about 150 young men, ages 12 to 18. It is a challenging job, and he is finding the nothing from a class room or text book fully prepared him for what he is encountering inside the institution. My son is intelligent, compassionate, and focused on doing his job in such a way that he helps those who he works with; those same qualities, of course, can make his line of work an eye-opening experience.

As his father, and as a retired social worker, I’m confident that my son is the type of person who will do very well at his job. But I did like when he called me one day to discuss some of the concerns he has, not so much about his particular job, but rather, about the "system." He noted, for example, that a some of the young people who have been sentenced to spend their teen-aged years in the institution probably would not have been there, had they come from a family that provided any type of support for them.

For longer than my son has been alive, the number one growth industry in New York has been its prison system. I tell him that the connections he sees between the culture’s family systems, it’s penal institutions, and the economy is not that long arm of coincidence, wrenching itself of of socket, but is the hard, cold reality of a system that for a variety of reasons, requires a growing number of human beings to spend much of their lives incarcerated.

Part of the reasons that we have arrived at this point, can be viewed as we travel on the roads between our house and that institution where my son is employed. My driveway is part of an old Revolutionary War era turnpike, that led from what was the "western front" of the 13 Colonies to Ithaca. The first place it went through was one of the hamlets made up largely from an extended family. The name of this type of farming community is usually based on the family name; hence we find that around the late 1700s and early 1800s, there are places with names like Smithsville and Knapps’ Settlent.

When you drive by the oldest farm houses, they usually will have additions built on. That is because they housed extended families. When the children grew up, one would get married and remain in the central house. The parents (now grandparents) would live in the addition. Other adult siblings would build houses close-by. This provided a strong support system for each child growing up in the community. They had not only their parents and siblings, but also grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and a network based upon the extended family to provide support for them.

A little further away, we come to where there was a canal in the early 1800s. The canal system opened the upstate to a level of economic influences that the turnpikes had not. Some of the young adults from the farming hamlets began to move to the villages along the canal’s path, in order to find employment. Their children would still be attending small neighborhood schools, and were in close contact with their extended families. The village was a network of extended families, and it provided a strong support system for the young people within it.

Soon we cross an old railroad track, built shortly after the Civil War. The railroads ushered in a new era. Farms went from being largely self-sufficient, where a small amount of a surplus of beef , garden produce, or fruit was used to trade for the few things the extended family required, to part of a larger economic unit that was focused primarily on producing milk products for distant cities. Because dairy farms required more land but less workers, more of the young adults left the hamlets and moved to towns that grew along the railroad tacks. The extended family was transitioning into the nuclear family. They got together for holdiays and other events, but the primary influences in the children’s lives was shifted to first the parents, and then the community. Schools were growing, and the young people were seeing options other than farming or the trades of their parents.

After crossing the railroad tracks, we come to a highway. It was built after WW1, and it allowed the towns with greater access to the distant cities. This opened the era of the suburbs and nuclear families. It was still common to pack the car and drive out to see the extended family in Hooterville on the holidays, but the kids were in less contact with the grandparents and aunts and uncles. But for most of the year, it was a very different lifestyle, with dad in an office or in a factory from 9 to 5, mom at the white picket-fenced home, and 3.5 children going to larger schools that prepared them to be office workers, cogs in a factory, or good housewives.

Although real life after WW2 was not a series of episodes of "Father Knows Best," the majority of middle class Americans had little idea of what Daniel Patrick Moynihan was speaking of when he warned about the problems that were associated with single-parent families. But they were soon to find out. As the industrial age gave way to high-tech society, business needed workers who were not shackled to annoying things like family commitments. They needed workers who were ready and willing to spend long hours at work, and who put their "careers" first.

The nuclear family was shattered, and single-parent families became far more frequent. For many of the parents who headed these families, that house with the white picket fence was not an option. They could only afford an apartment in a town or city, often in a building that had previously housed one family, but which had been converted into numerous apartments. The children from single parent families often miss out on healthy relationships with the non-custodial parent, and on the stability that half of their extended family might provide.

This is not intended to "point fingers" at single parents. Indeed, for several years, I was a single parent with two little boys. It is a difficult circumstance to be in. However, statistically, the children from single parent families are at increased risk of experiencing difficulties at home, in school, and in their communities.

One option our society has is to build more prisons for adults. And that requires that there be more youth facilities built as a sort of prep school for future prison inmates. It is a big business nation-wide.

Another option is to address the issues that are at the root of the problem. I am not suggesting that we do away with individual responsibility – quite the opposite, we need to not only hold "criminals" responsible for their action, we need to become a more responsible society.

One political party believes that we are our brother’s keeper. And I’m not talking about keeping your brother in behind bars. One political party recognizes that single parents need and deserve the support of their community when they try to raise their sons and daughters. One party believes that our society is enriched when it invests in education, and in providing each child with a quality education. It is the party that believes that it takes a village to raise a child.

The other party doesn’t share these extended family values. Too often, they are only concerned with the lives of their own children or grandchildren, and do not appreciate the connection to others in the larger community. And their leaders view other people’s children as mere cogs in the money-making machine. There are examples other than the institutions that house the hundreds of 12 to 18 year olds: each day, we hear about more American youth, ages 18 to 25, dying in Iraq in what can only be viewed as a republican business investment.

The 2008 elections will have consequences for every family in America. We do not have the option of going back in time – but we can learn from the past, and apply those lessons to our current conditions. I do not think that we can afford to continue down the path that we are on now. I am intent on doing my best to be sure that we elect the officials who can begin to institute real change, so that fewer kids get caught up in a penal system that capitalizes on man’s inhumanity to man.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommend
early and often.

That's terrific.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thank you.
Much appreciated!
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Another great post
There is a boy's prison on the edge of town here that has the distinction of being the first of its kind in Illinois. Built in the early part of the 20th century, it had a gymnasium, greenhouse, and no concertina wire to keep the boys in.

Our church has a Christmas program for select boys - boys the chaplain has selected and who have stayed out of 'trouble' and/or followed the house rules - around Christmas each year. One year after Christmas I contacted the chaplain there and asked him what else we could do for the kids that wasn't being done. Some from our congregation and other groups in the surrounding town go there for tutoring... but I had hoped that there would be something else we could do.

He gave me a tour of the buildings that were falling into disrepair that they can't allow anyone to go into for safety reasons. And other than tutoring, he couldn't think of anything more that outsiders could do for them.

Somehow I can't accept that - they are still on my mind. They are so very young and some of them are in there for truly avoidable reasons. Would be interested to hear if the prison near you has any programs that could be duplicated here.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. When I worked
with children & youth, and on parenting-related issues, I used to use the old commercial regarding automotive oil changes as my motto: "You can pay me now, or pay me later." For example, I ran a "parent aide program." Some areas have them, and some don't. There are questions about if they are cost-effective. A good parent aide program is geared at providing supportive services to parents who have issues with neglectful and/or abusive behaviors with their children.

Often, these parents are young, perhaps single parents, and lack the parenting skills they need to be adequate parents. The issues tend to be generational -- so they haven't had the example that the extended family used to provide. They may not have access to the resources they need. The parent aide is a role model/parent advocate. They program is, from my experience, cost effective.

Also, I supervised similar programs that were geared to meet the needs of "at risk" children and youth. These included a "big brother/sister" -type program, and an independent living skills program. The first is something most people are familiar with: the idea of having an adult who volunteers to be a stable friend and role model for a kid in need. The ILS targets teens who have been in foster care, and who are not going to be adopted or return to their family of origin; the program teaches some of the skills they need to live on their own.

I had less experience with kids in an institutional setting. One thing I did have was a brother-in-law who was recognized as the best counselor in the NYS DFY. And when I had a kid who was really acting out, we used to do a modified "scared straight" -- bringing the youngster to a youth facility, and giving them food for thought. Our goal was to change the young man's attitude, and then behavior, for a period of time that might range between 6 and 12 months.

It was based on something that my friend Rubin Carter helped develope at Rahway State Prison in the 1970s. That program led to two tv documentaries: "Scared Straight," which kind of over-stated the effectiveness of the program, and "You Are Your Brother's Keeper," which tried to provide a more realistic view. No program is the answer to all problems, of course.

We got very good results. So good that the local probation department attempted to do the samething on a large scale. They failed, because they wanted to do it on too large a scale, too fast. And I mention that, because I think it provides insight on a number of things .... including the need to be creative, to meet the individual youth's needs, and to allow a system to be flexible to allow creative workers to use their talents.

I'm not sure if that answers the questions you raised, at least not directly. But I hope it helps.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. These kids do have adults
from the community who come in and offer tutoring and friendship of a nature. The prison has become more a prison and less a home for wayward boys. The nature of the institution is now more about punishment and less about rehabilitation.

I am not sure what the answer is yet but I am still looking for it and I trust it will come after it percolates in my head a while or I ask for suggestions from others. Whatever it is, I think it needs to involve the kids in the community. I want them to feel connected in a positive way. As many of them are not allowed anything that could be whittled into something sharp, that is a problem with reactivating the greenhouse or giving them mechanical devices to repair...
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. I worked as a delinquency worker in the past
There are good programs for kids and there are bad ones. Some programs are good for some kids and bad for others. Some kids have committed crimes of such a serious nature and require a very high level of security while in custody.

We had some excellent programs at the time, both private agencies and state facilities, and some bad ones. The large, campus-type programs were usually the best, because it got the kids out into an environment with lots of outdoor activities and sports, along with the counseling and the academic attention. The one-on-one attention given in the school programs, in particular, made a difference for a lot of the kids.

But the high-security lock-up for the worst juvenile offenders is a holding facility for the adult system. They give them psychiatric services and do the best that they can for the kids who do want help, but for the ones who don't, there's not much that can be done.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Right.
There is no one program that provides the "answer" to the complex issues involving family systems and youth. But it helps to have social work attract talented people who are confident that the system they work within will allow for creative approaches. And the earlier the supportive services can be provided, the greater the chances of helping a person get on the right track in life.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Recommended #5
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. k&r
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent post!
k&r
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. attended a meeting Wed.
about "Children of the Incarcerated". Pointed out that at least half of these kids will end up being incarcerated themselves. They are forgotten by the penal system, and often left without resources to deal with the trauma of having a parent removed. Visiting their parent(s) is itself often traumatic. They also see this cycle as somehow normal, without a village to raise them.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. It is common
for children to reach the approximate social status of their parents. Hence, for children of the incarcertated, there is going to be a very real risk that they will view incarceration as being something very different than children of non-incarcerated parents do. It is certainly, as you note, a multi-generational issue.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. Great post H2O Man
as usual :D
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'll kick that. - n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. One Party Doesn't Care If The Blood Of Children Is Shed
as long as it's other people's children as theirs are too busy becoming the next participants in taking citizen's rights away.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I find the president's
attempts to feign sadness when he speaks of the troops' sacrifices particularly obnoxious.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. Compassion and love would make a world of difference with these kids...
yet they are tossed aside like trash. :(
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. "The judicial system
is like a deep, swift river -- and once you are pushed into it, or jump into it yourself, the current just takes you anywhere it wants to take you." -- Rubin "Hurricane" Carter; 1978
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thank you for that.
I know someone that applies to and I will share it with him.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. h2oman, do you know about/believe in evolutionary psychology?
ever read 'the moral animal' by robert wright? i find it a very interesting way to look at the human condition. one of the main pretexts is that it is a very risky venture to be altruistic. a species which was unrelentingly altruistic would be extinct in no time. so, we have a sophisticated mechanism, part of our prenatal development, that shapes our brains for the kind of world that our mother's stress hormones tell us we are likely to meet. if mom is stressed the whole nine months, whether from lack of food, or a violent environment, or simply from having to work too freaking hard, she will have a baby that is born to fight for survival. reflexes, muscles, willingness to gamble, and a tough 'soul' are built in in the womb. if mom has a peaceful pregnancy, is well fed, rested and loved, the baby's brain will develop more intellectually, emotionally, with a bigger frontal lobe, etc. peace generates peace. pain generates pain.
to me, this put a different light on the whole subject of kids in prison- ie, they have not so much 'gone wrong' as they have adapted to the world they have been brought into. adapted as a million or so years of evolution have shaped them to do. (one aspect that we sort of understand- adhd. i don't think it is a disorder, i think it is an adaptation.)
in the past, many of these kids grew up to be warriors. (hero worship is a way for their offspring to survive if they are killed.) in the more recent past, they grew up to do the dangerous and dirty jobs. what do those kids have now? and would it change anything to look at them in this light? i think a real understanding of this would lead to more intelligent schooling and rearing, and a different set of expectations.
what do you think?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Interesting.
I have not read "The Moral Animal," but I do enjoy DU because so many intelligent people recommend good books. Thank you.

Even the individual who is considered by many to be unrelentingly altruistic spoke of
being wise as serpents, though harmless as doves. (Matthew 10:16) I think that it is important to not be victims .... of either other people, or of ourselves.

It is interesting to consider how the parts of the human brain that were essential for our survival for most of human (and pre-human) history, are viewed as less helpful by much of our society today. Yet our brain responds to the environment in the same general manner that it did when we were on the savanna, though we are in a very different environment today.

People are machines, and our bodies -- including the brain/engine -- is a product of genetics and environment, just as surely as the color green is a product of blue and yellow. I had stopped working with children & youth before ADHD became so frequently diagnosed. It used to seem to be too frequently diagnosed to me, and I thought there were too frequent prescriptions given for behaviors in young folk that I did not view as "problemed." Two of the people I had the most respect for (one a supervisor who worked with children, the other a nationally respected pediatrician) told me that they viewed ADHD as something being caused in part by environmental changes that wererapidly changing brain chemistry in children. But I think they viewed it as a maladapted form of change. Neither viewed drug therapy as a first choice.

Is it good, or a worthy goal, for example, to force children ages 5 to 12 to sit for long hours in a classroom setting? Certainly, people of different ages can be institutionalized, but is that an advantage? To the individual? To society? And to what extent?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. i homeschooled my kids for 8 years.
i wish i could have kept doing it. i think that there is so much wrong with the sit down, shut up school of education. and these 20% of kids who are said to be adhd are being so poorly served, it should be a crime.

i highly recommend 'the moral animal', as well as his more recent book- 'nonzero'. in that book he looks back at the long history of war, and answers the question- what is it good for? he then goes on to explain why our history points to the day when war will die off, like the way we lost our tails and our fur coats.
it changed my view of war and violence to acknowledge that it has served the human species well, but it is just time to evolve. it is no longer sustainable. as you can plainly see by the constant failure of the military to reach their recruitment quotas. the clash between those that are worried about today and those that are worried about tomorrow will have to shift, or the planet, as george carlin says, is going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas.

the practical application of all this- my all purpose remedy for the ills of the world- take care of pregnant women, and small children. at least remove the stress of hunger. if every hungry mother to be in my state could get a steak dinner every night, we would save millions of dollars taking care of preemie babies, let alone jail cells. make prenatal health care a priority. if you can't help every addict, at least make sure that any addicted pregnant woman, anywhere, has a bed in drug treatment on demand. small things, yet large things. but if we really did them, in a generation, war would whither on the vine.
well, we can always hope.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Until the public opinion swings back from retribution to rehabiliation, we will get more of the same
The entire system is operating on the concept that punishing people will get the desired results, and punishing them more harshly will get the desired results quicker.

That is wrong on every count.

In almost every state sentencing guidelines require the Judge to take into consideration rehabilitation of the the offender as a factor in fashioning a sentence. However, it is universally ignored today --especially where mandatory minimum sentences are involved.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Using impatience
to curb others' impatience rarely, if ever, works. Likewise, using anger and rage in an attempt to resolve others' anger and rage seems unlikely to produce the desired results.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. 'What Came Before He Shot Her' by Elizabeth George
is a fictional account of what happen to a 12 year old boy, mixed race, in England and the circumstances which led to him being incarcerated for life. It is a depressing tale of a child who was only trying to protect his brother and how after his father was shot dead in the street and his mother was placed in an insane asylum, the lives of he, his brother and sister were headed in a downward spiral and beyond their control.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. It is a strange system.
Even "just" the county jail system. People may start out thinking that they will remain flint hard, and not allow the institution to change them. But they always have to accommodate, because jail does not change to meet the individual's needs or demands. And after accommodation, there is often a resignation, then acceptance, and then compromise. And then, that person is, by all definitions, "institutionalized." And when that happens, society has an individual who is able to function within the institution, but lacks the skills needed to function on the outside.
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Summer93 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kick and recommend
This is a good topic to keep discussing.

I was raised in the extended family model and found in it a great many strengths. Unfortunately, my entire family is now spread around in different cities so we don't get much time together.

Thanks for your contributions.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Thank you.
I think that the grass roots democrats are the group with the greatest claim to having family and community values.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. The vast wasted potential of these incarcerated youth is incalculable.
Edited on Mon Aug-13-07 12:52 PM by annabanana
If there were other, well run institutions and opportunities, other than the prisons and the killing fields...Places and organizations where the restless energy of youth was well spent. Suppose the Peace Corp was as well funded as the military.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. One of the
most powerful parts of The Autobiography of Malcolm X is when he discusses the loss of human potential that is associated with crime and incarceration.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. Double
:kick: :kick:
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. It is tragic to know of young people in jail
It seems often related to no support from family or the parents have major problems themselves, which becomes a cycle. I know growing up in the city, many of my friends had families where one parent was an alcoholic. And then these people have major tragedies happen as a result of that. We are very far from having "villages", but we will have to have them again someday, as I think that is how humans were meant to live.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Our society needs
to re-define concepts such as "family" and "social responsibility."
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-15-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. I just tried to recommend this thread.
Unfortunately I'm a day too late.

One political party believes that we are our brother’s keeper. And I’m not talking about keeping your brother in behind bars. One political party recognizes that single parents need and deserve the support of their community when they try to raise their sons and daughters. One party believes that our society is enriched when it invests in education, and in providing each child with a quality education. It is the party that believes that it takes a village to raise a child.

Boy, did you sum it up H20Man. Thank you.
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