I ask tonight is there a God

[Monkeyman]

Maybe I miss my wife and friend. But I look at the world and ask why would God let good people die. And let a person like Bush be President. I feel Hate unlike I ever felt before for the right wing. Even in Vietnam I never felt this kind of hate. I see men and women coming home from this war without arms and legs. I see their minds have been destroyed. I just cannot understand anymore why a God would let this keep going again. Is it my loss or is it just me? I been a man of faith but that seems to being turned into real hate. We been lied to by Bush and company. If we say no more we are swift boated. So I ask is there a God and where is he or she?

I just need to rant I think . I know tonight I miss my wife more then anything. But I still have to ask why God Why?

[More Than A Feeling]

1. If God exists outside of the human imagination, and is supposed to be good

then either the situation has divine approval, or will be rectified in some divine way.

Let me know whether either happens. In the meantime, I hope you get to see your wife soon.

[papau]

47. We are supposed to know the mind of God now - otherwise its imagination? In any case

I case, seeing loved ones soon is indeed what will happen.

In the meantime, I understand his grief and, while inadequate for that grief, can only wish him love and good wishes, thoughts, and prayers.

[More Than A Feeling]

51. That's right. If you don't know the nature of God, all you have are human ideas from imagination.

Is there a problem with that?

[az chela]

2. Have you read the poem "WHY" by Cindy Seehan???

We all are doubting a personal god that cares about us.I think we are our own gods and are responsible for our fate.My son died 3 years ago and i find no faith left in me so I know how you feel.
I wish I had the answers but I dont and those who say they do are just accepting things on blind faith

[Redstone]

3. Probably not.

I'm sorry, I wish it were otherwise. But it doesn't seem to be so.

If I could take your pain from you and add it to mine, I would. Know that.

Redstone

[TomInTib]

6. I am so GodDamned tired...

see number whatever.

[Redstone]

13. What is it about tonight? Monkeyman's lamenting his wife, and I'm glad to see him

back here nonetheless, you're just fucking tired, and I'm sitting here on DU because I can't sleep because I told Mrs R about the nighmare memory I had last night, the one that got me up at 3 AM and still has me up now.

Why do you suppose the Ghosts of Viet Nam are haunting us all tonight?

I want to take Monkeyman's pain. Nobody should have to feel that bad. Nobody.

Redstone

[TomInTib]

24. The thing is...

the circle just goes 'round and 'round.

Monkeyman lost, hard.

We just lose a little bit every day, Redstone.

Know what I mean?

Tom

[Redstone]

28. I do know what you mean. Monkeyman lost hard, indeed; MUCH more than

most of us, and God damn it, I have some spare capacity for pain left, and I wish I could take some of his pain to lighten his load.

And the days keep chipping away at us, taking that little bit each day as you said, but what can we do but to pick and grin and take what enjoyment we can?

There's no other way.

Redstone

[TomInTib]

33. Dammit, Redstone...

You oughta write a book.

Or start a Journal on this place.

So, I will continue to continue (with apologies to P Simon)....

Take care...

Tom

[Redstone]

38. Well,

You oughta write a book.

I did.

Or start a Journal on this place.

Would have, except for laziness & pain & those V and Vs.

So, I will continue to continue (with apologies to P Simon)....

As will we all.

Take care...

And you do the same, OK? hearing words such as these from someone such as you, it helps. A lot.

Redstone

[Runcible Spoon]

4. maybe there isn't a God...

but there are people who care about you and are working harder than God is to end the corruption, violence, death and hatred.

Hang in there. I know what those nights feel like. :hug:

[TomInTib]

5. Shake it. Monkeyman...

You know how it works...

We all feel crazy..

I went over a lot of my stuff tonight...

God bless you, man...

For what it is worth, I am with you...

[Monkeyman]

8. Allot Brother Allot

[SeattleGirl]

7. Oh, Monkeyman

I know you are hurting, and I know there's not much I can do for you, except offer you my caring thoughts. :hug: :hug: :hug:

Your anger is born partly from your pain, but it is also justifiable in and of itself.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. My dear Monkeyman........

I believe God exists.......

But I don't believe that s/he controls the world......

I do believe we have free will, and that this allows the world to unfold in terrible ways.......

You have my complete sympathy tonight, and for the unforseeable future....

My deepest condolences on the loss of your beloved wife......

:hug:

[Monkeyman]

11. I won't sleep tonight I have to try to understand this feeling

[TomInTib]

20. Damn, Monkeyman...

I was gonna go all over the place with this.

But I am just going to go silent.

You know you, Monkeyman..

Riding alone..


You can do it.


Damn, this may seem a bit disjointed..

But so am I...

Tom

[Redstone]

25. Yes, he can do it. I believe this. We, the damaged ones, we still persist. And we survive.

Do you hear me, Monkeyman? Remember, we're the strong ones.

We are. Listen to TomInTib. Listen to me.

As Tom said: you can do it. Look into your life, and you'll find a reason why you have to do it. There's someone who needs you, isn't there?

We're the strong ones. No matter what happens to us, we persist. We survive.

I do believe this.

Redstone

[fizzgig]

10. peace to you monkeyman

i know your anger but not your loss. i also know what it is to ask why.

i have no answers friend, all i can offer you is :hug:

[AirmensMom]

12. I'm sorry, Monkeyman.

:hug:

I don't know why God lets good people die and bad people live the good life. It's just too unfair. :(

I don't believe the whole war thing is God's fault, though. He gave us free will and some people have abused it terribly. It's all very heartbreaking.

If I could take your pain away, I would. :hug:

[leftofthedial]

14. Monkeyman,

we are all frustrated and angry and bewildered by the sheer magnitude of the evil that pervades the world today. It's up to good people like you, armed with the memory and love you still have for your wife, to help us unravel the web. We have to carry on to make a good place for those yet to come and to honor the memories of those who went before us.

Your task now is not to understand. I fear that is impossible. Rather, your task is to strive for understanding along with the rest of us. I'm sorry for your pain. I carried a similar burden for too many years. Please know that you have friends here who value you precisely because you are the kind of person not afraid to ask these questions.

[Monkeyman]

16. Thanks that helps I need to go and just I think to cry it out

[oldtimecanuk]

27. Monkeyman.... I really wish I could say that I know what your are

going thru, but I don't.... I gotta tell ya though, I so feel your pain.. Just by your writing's... I am so sorry for your loss, and wish/hope that I can do something for you to help ease the pain... As I am writing this, my keyboard is getting wet (and I truly mean that) Please let me know if there is anything that I can do to help you.... I will PM you.... God I wish that we could all get together for a group hug.... I so need it right now.... "Shape up man, you are not supposed to cry" yeah ok dad...

ww

[papau]

49. Crying it out is the way I react - but while it helps, even time will not

cure the pain - it will only make it dimmer.

We can not know the mind of God, but seeing loved ones soon is indeed, I believe, what will happen.

In the meantime, I understand your grief and, while inadequate for that grief, I can only wish you love and good wishes, thoughts, and prayers.

[Porcupine]

15. No but there is a Dog that will be glad.....

to see you when everyone else treats you like shit. Sometimes I think humans learned love and devotion from dogs because people suck at it.

I'm partial to queensland heelers but there is probably a perfect breed for you out there. You need a dog buddy.

[proReality]

17. As a believer...

you should read Deepak Chopra's newest book: "Life Afer Death". It's not only comforting, it makes a lot of sense out of the chaos that is our lives.

[Erika]

18. Shush monkeyman

Go to sleep tonight thinking of her feel and smell. You will sleep tight.

[The Traveler]

19. Oh man

I don't know you yet but I wish I did. I know how debilitating all the frustration about the evil being done to and in this country can be, and on top of that you have another burden. We gotta stay strong, my man. We are the old farts, guys like you and I. We gotta stay strong and never quit fighting. We got to help our younger peers rise up from all the wreckage these bastards have wrought around us.

I know you're hurting, and I know you are mad. But I must confess I hear no trace of back down in your words. Guys like you carry me through this shit ... that's why I come here. To know for sure that I am not alone in my thoughts or feelings as I confront all this madness. You just told me, once again, I am not alone.

Neither are you, brother.

Trav

[hickman]

21. Monkeyman, I am so sorry.

God just gave us free will. We did the rest. Your post sound so much like Allen Ginsberg's Howl. Unfortunately money will always rule. The pawns will always lose life and limb so Paris Hilton can jet from party to party. It's the life we're stuck with. I'm so sorry for the loss of your wife.

[I_like_chicken]

22. No there is no God

There is no meaning to the suffering we see in the world. In fact our lives are meaningless. All we can do is except this fact and try to create our own meaning for existence. This is a very painful idea to except, but once you do, it can help you create a richer and more rewarding life for yourself.

[Redstone]

30. "Accept," not "except." Both times you used it. Just some friendly advice.

Redstone

[bridgit]

23. i'm hearing you, Monkeyman, i sometimes think the wheels aren't coming off the bus...

i sometimes think that they're no freaking wheels on this bus. i've been broken, beat on, kicked, torn into, picked over, and the last one picked for fun or out of spite...

so this evening, this moment i say peace to you, that's what i say :hug:

[TomInTib]

29. Good God Almighty, bridgit...

we are all bailing the same boat...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=154670&mesg_id=154778

[bridgit]

32. peace to Monkeyman this evening, peace to you Tom...

i hear the 'righteous' upon their feathered wing trying to gain position atop internal matters only each to every man, every woman, every child...know my mind: would that it were in my power to do so, i would stop all the pain & sorrows of this world with the blink of my eyes
:hug:

[TomInTib]

36. "with the blink of my eyes"

Should it be so simple.

God bless you, bridgit.

Tom

[Divine Discontent]

26. I've been there too

and I keep coming back to the basis that God wants to have our complete devotion and understanding that without Him there is no life to begin with, in the Believer's opinion, and of course, we're going to doubt, but we should always turn that doubt over to Jesus and ask Him to heal our frustration, because, man, you and I share much human anger over the B*sh cabal and their level of stinking corruption, but our souls shine brightly for appreciating good and loving things, something apparently they cannot ever grasp!

The things in life we take for granted everyday, I never want to take for granted again. With my Dad dying in Oct. and my dearest bro being ill for years, I must continue believing that God knows all and sees all and will reward His children one day for proving their love to Him.

I pray that Bush will either resign or be caught, and that he's not as evil as he appears... because they appear pretty damn evil at this point and time in our human history!

Regardless, thank you for sharing how you're feeling, I'll pray for you and all of us suffering under the Shrub, regardless of our beliefs!


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[Dean Martin]

31. I don't know

I'm very sorry for what you're going through Monkeyman.

I personally don't feel that there is a God in the religious sense. In my opinion all the scientific evidence is just too overwhelmingly against the relgious aspects.

That doesn't mean that something did not start everything off though. On that I don't know. It also doesn't mean we don't all go on somehow after we die.

If you've ever felt she was watching over you, then it's possible she is.

Take care, and hang in there.

[uppityperson]

34. I am a pragmatist. I don't know if there is a god or why much of anything.

wishes of peace to all that are hurting in so many ways. There is enough pain around to not have to hurt each other any more. God? I don't know. I think when I die I am dead, but then again I saw my recently died mother in a vision. I don't know and sometimes not having faith can really hurt. Peace to you and all.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. John Lennon said "God is a concept by which we measure our pain."

Sometimes, especially in the dark watches of the night, that pain...bitter, aching, soul-deep loneliness and desolation...is just too big to be compassed by any concept, even one as big as God. Just remember...so long as we can communicate with at least one other person, we're never truly alone...whether God's there or not, we still have ourselves, and each other. That may not seem like much, but sometimes it's enough.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. I think God's role is purely inspirational (if he does exist)

I think that if God does exist, his contribution is the knowledge that his believers have of his unconditional love (I use "his" for convenience because I believe God transcends gender). Unconditional love gives people the ability to keep going when they otherwise have no hope and no one else to turn to. However, unconditional love alone doesn't solve their problems, they need to use the inspiration to make their own lives better.

[NuttyFluffers]

39. patterns run long as pain runs deep

it is hard to see even glimpses of relatedness when sober and alert, let alone when crushed with blinding grief. so do not try to use a finite form to fathom the infinite. melt into the endless truths shared throughout the anima world, in those truths a chance for transcendence and peace can come.

but you don't need to hear such things now. dwell more on your curent state and in time this process will be effortless and unconscious, when the time is right. for now take heart that you are surrounded by sympathy. as it is often said, you are never alone...

[QMPMom]

40. I ask your question every day, Monkeyman. The answer

keeps eluding me. The why of the unfairness and hatred in this world eludes me.

I will keep *all of you* in my thoughts. And prayers on the days that I actually think they work. I believe in God, but I really need some tangible proof that He/She is out there.

[The Straight Story]

41. My answer - heck ya, and to answer 'why do such things happen' ?

We have all the abilities to make the world better, yet we don't use them.

How can we expect god to do what we are unwilling ourselves to do.

Think for a moment - say there is no god. We must ask the same questions of ourselves as humans.

We have all the power, all the knowledge, and yet we are still fucking up this world we have.

God? No - He/She left us a long time ago. Put it all into our hands, and we have made a mess of it.

God is there - waiting on us to come home and live a good life, a peaceful one based on love. But mankind will have none of it.

The evil in this world exists because we made it. We have rejected good and then sit wondering why bad things are occurring.

I can't bitch at god for the things that go on. God gave humankind a chance, knowledge, and we have used it to kill each other and make nukes.

We can find peace, but first we must let go - and let god into our lives.

Yeah, I know I am sounding like a fundie maybe - but then I am a christian.

God gave us freedom and intellect, and we have rejected it. Why would one even bother with such a species as ours is beyond me at times.

I can see why god is not bothering with our issues - we can't even help each other and we live in the most powerful country in the world.

God is not the problem. We are.

[Divine Discontent]

42. I can see why god is not bothering with our issues - we can't even help each other

"God allows everything thing that would break our hearts only to use the suffering and saddness in a way that will eventually turn out to Glorify His holy name" ==== I've always believed this to be true. Out of many heartbreaks I've been through, this still rings true - Jesus hears us and weeps with us in our troubles and from what I've seen in my own life, does the above.

Life is tough, and it's through great people like on this board, of all views, that help make it easier to deal with because we're all concerned for you, God bless

[SmallTownIAGuy]

43. Draw closer to God and He will draw closer to you

I don't know what else to say.

[tkmorris]

44. No. There is no "God"

"God" is a crutch we humans have used for time immemorial to excuse that which we find too painful to bear. The fear of death, the loss of a loved one, the ennui of a life which lacks meaning.

I am truly sorry that you have lost your wife. I feel the pain in your words. Please do not doubt this, it's true. The popular perception is that we atheists do not possess this empathy, that we lack morals, that we lack feeling.

It isn't true.

If anything we have it more than anyone. We do what is moral not because a book tells us to, or because some local spiritual guide tells us to, but because WE, ourselves, know it is right. Morals matter more to us than to anyone, because we know that we cannot easily derive them from some accepted text or guru. WE must find them, for ourselves, and in doing so they are thus all the more valuable.

It remains to us, the people who are the highest life forms on this planet, to make it work. If a Bush foments evil in the world, it is up to US to stop it. It is up to US to teach that war is an abomination. It is up to US to teach the world that those who have view us as mere means to an end, their end, and our welfare is of no consequence to them.

I wish I could tell you that I believe your wife is in a better place Monkeyman. I cannot. I can tell you though that I believe whatever love you showed her made her life worth living, and you honor her existence in your missing her. Your words tell me that you loved her, very much, and however she passed, that made it easier to do. She MATTERED. To you. And thus to us.

Be well Monkeyman.

[michaz]

45. I felt like that when our 16 year old son died unexpectedly.

Monkeyman, everything gets turned upside down. Our feelings for everything are like a roller coaster. Up and then down. When we are down nothing seems good. It is so hard to understand this world as it is but when we face the loss of a loved one it is 100 times worse. Our whole perspective on life in general is affected. For a long time I couldn't understand why God allowed this to happen. But I stayed close to him and tried to remind myself that he knows better than I. I came to realize that God did not cause Michael's death. An undetected heart problem did. He died while playing soccer at his school. The mess that this world is in is caused by man and we need to get a grip on it. We need to fight to get this world back to where it should be. We need to elect people that are good and understanding of this. Trust me, Monkeyman, your faith in all good will come back. Yes, you are missing your wife and you will forever. It is still so fresh and the only thing that helps is time! I use to say all the time "there is no way around this, you have to walk right on through it". That is what you are doing and it hurts like hell. I wish I could help you but all I can do is tell you that you will be okay and I offer you my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong.

Michele

[theHandpuppet]

46. She's with you, Monkeyman

There's a song that immediately came to my mind when I read your post. I think I'm supposed to share this with you...

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
There's a golden sky
And the sweet silver
Song of a lark.
Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams
Be tossed and blown
Walk on
Walk on
With hope in your hearts
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone.

[Jonathan50]

48. I do not believe there is a God.

I was raised a conservative Christian and deconverted all on my own at about sixteen, lo these forty years ago now.

I have a loved one doing hard time for a non violent "drug crime", a living hell if there is one.

If you believe in a God at least you have the comfort of thinking that your wife has gone on to a "better place" and I hope that may give you some comfort, small though it may be.

We are social creatures and the cruelest torture of all for us is to be alone with no one to comfort and no one to comfort us.

I lost my parents thirty five years ago and I can tell you that the pain does eventually become bearable. Not really any less sharp, but less freqent as time passes.

[NewWaveChick1981]

50. I don't know if there is a God...

...but there is a lot of evil in the world. :hug: I know you miss your wife terribly. :pals: I'm sorry you're going through this.

[fla nocount]

52. In a traditional sense......I think not.

Cognizant, aware, interactive, keeping a running inventory of sparrows as they fall. Grey bearded father figure on a big stone throne in the sky and since its always referred to as HE; really now, what's God going to do with a penis? I don't think the traditional ideas of God whether Christian, Muslim or Jewish can be defended any better than a Grimm's Brothers tale.

As a universe of predictable reactions that always responds the same given the same stimulus that we could use as tools if we only learned or could intuit the rules; I think the idea of God in this milieu might be defended and as I get older it has more appeal. It does seem though that the universe hates an empty cup and prefers shades of gray to black and white. It seems to want to balance but cheats with a quality we sometimes lack, patience.

Since all that I am and all my universe is esperienced through my own awareness, nobody else's......MY awareness, I tend to believe that this God thing is also pure awareness and nothing else. If this is true then we will never know the nature or the intent of this God thing for the same reason a fish doesn't know it's wet. Said fish however does know when it's not wet and we know when we're not in our element as well.

Since summer 2001 I've lurked more than posted Monkeyman and you've always been a favorite. I'm sorry for your loss and want to believe that the questions you ask are a normal part of the human experience as I've asked them myself. I hope that you get wet again as soon as you're comfortable with the idea.

[BluePatriot]

53. Well...

*hugs*

Sometimes I think God/the Universe puts humans through bad things so we can get angry and stand up for what's right when it matters. Learn from the experience, and all that. Maybe we have to go through Bush to finally learn a lesson about the consequences of ignoring those who call for change. These consequences need to be so profound that they reach all the people who are plain ignoring the world around them and their effect on it...It still hurts, though, so hang in there.

[Megahurtz]

55. Great Post. n/t

[Selatius]

54. A god who takes away free will is a god I would reject and condemn

If it is true that God gave free will to humankind, then it naturally follows that problems people inflict on each other are the responsibility of people themselves. It also follows that if people use freewill to help others rather than destroy or exploit others, then that is the responsibility of people as well.

Free will is the realm of man. If you want God to stop the evil that men do, then naturally you are opposed to the very idea of free will or a god who would even grant humans that kind of power.