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'Plot Would Have Killed Thousands' - Chertoff on Last Year's Liquid Explosive Plot

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:37 PM
Original message
'Plot Would Have Killed Thousands' - Chertoff on Last Year's Liquid Explosive Plot
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 07:05 PM by RamboLiberal
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3451976&page=1

Terrorists who had planned to detonate gel-based explosives on U.S.-bound flights from London last August would have achieved mass devastation, according to new information from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in an exclusive interview with ABC News.

"I think that the plot, in terms of its intent, was looking at devastation on a scale that would have rivaled 9/11," Chertoff told ABC's Pierre Thomas. "If they had succeeded in bringing liquid explosives on seven or eight aircraft, there could have been thousands of lives lost and an enormous economic impact with devastating consequences for international air travel."

Sources tell ABC News that after studying the plot, government officials have concluded that without the tip to British authorities, the suspects could have likely smuggled the bomb components onboard using sports drinks.

The components of that explosives mixture can be bought at any drugstore or supermarket; however, there is some question whether the potential terrorists would have had the skill to properly mix and detonate their explosive cocktails in-flight.

But they can work — scientists at Sandia National Laboratory conducted a test using the formula, and when a small amount of liquid in a container was hit with a tiny burst of electrical current, a large explosion followed. Video at the link.

On edit Larry Johnson last year on this plot:

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/08/bushs_weapon_of.html

Bush's Weapon of Mass Deception

First, no evidence has emerged that the plotters had in hand a functioning prototype of the device they wanted to take on board a plane. That's an important point. The Bojinka plot of 1994--when Ramsi Yousef, Khalid Sheikh Mohamad, Walid Khan, and Hakim Murad planned to blow up 12 jumbo jets in the Pacific--was preceded by Ramsi Yousef's December 1994 success in testing a bomb that exploded on a Philippine Air flight and killed a Japanese man. Yousef, Mohamad, and Murad are in jail. Walid Khan is dead. No one from that group is around to provide technical advice on the amount of explosive required to down a plane.

There is a press report from Pakistan that monitoring of one of the plotters, a fellow named Rauf, revealed that:

the plotters had tested the explosive liquid mixture they planned to use at a location outside Britain. NBC News has previously reported that the explosive mixture was tested in Pakistan. The source said the suspects in Britain had obtained at least some of the materials for the explosive but had not yet actually prepared or mixed it.

We'll say it again--the plotters had not yet actually prepared or mixed a potential explosive. More importantly, they did not have a working prototype of a viable explosive charge that would pass muster at a screening checkpoint. The British plotters reportedly did have hydrogen peroxide. Big deal. Go to your local drug store and you too can buy some. Hydrogen peroxide is not an explosive and there is no easy, safe way to make an explosive with it. The plotters in Britain still had alot of work to do in order to carry out their plot.

I'm also struck by the fact that more then twenty people were allegedly involved in this plot. The Al Qaeda of Ramsi Yousef's day had a viable plan for blowing up 12 planes using only 5 people. Now we learn that the radical Islamic copycats need 20 folks for at least 6 planes. Is this evidence of Al Qaeda's degraded capability?

Second, no evidence has emerged that the group had purchased tickets or even had passports that would allow them to board a plane to the United States. How exactly were they supposed to bomb planes that they could not even board.


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pretty_lies Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. What A Load Of Crap This Was
There is no viable liquid explosive mixture that can be bought from a drugstore.

All the methods that have been mentioned are simply unworkable, unless the perpetrators were able to smuggle a laboratory aboard without being noticed.

The entire charade of discarding liquids is absolutely useless - well, it has served ONE purpose -- fearmongering.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I didn't know markets stopped selling Mentos and Diet Coke
:sarcasm:

Yeah, Chertoff is handing out the weekly dose of crap terror scare from the Bush Admin. If I remember right the UK "Jihadists R' Us" didn't even have their airline tickets or passports/visas.

Also, Chertoff is acting like this is a brand new plot. Bet before this scare last year he could've asked most DU'ers what was the Bojinka Plot and we'd have been able to tell him.
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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Fearmongering and Bottled Water Sales
Amazing how the water we throw out on one side of the barrier -- factory sealed, full, unsuspicious -- is so dangerous and the water we buy on the other side is just fine.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jesus, I'm scared shitless
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. yeah yeah yeah whatever.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is so full of crap on so many levels -
You think - if someone pulled out their carry on bag and and started mixing things - presumably on the pull down tray - together - they might not have attracted attention?

Presumably in four ounce bottles labeled "shampoo" or whatever.

How many people would have beaten him to death - exactly??

Joe

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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. And in tubels labeled "toothpaste", and little cartons labeled "yogurt" -
and we STILL can't carry stuff like that on to planes.

Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Exactly -
Give me a fucking break too

Joe

How stupid do those people really think we are???
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Oops, that would be "tubes", not "tubels"
past the editing period.

I hate to look like a moran...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Richard Clarke agreed.. News Hr. showed planes blowing up about 3 x
tonight on the evening show.


the only sentence of caution was a one liner saying they did not know if terroritst could have pulled this off on a plane.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, Chertoff's agency actually did kill thousands on the Gulf Coast.....
through criminal neglect.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Seems you are more likely to die in an avalance..even if you don't ski!
I like the 'you are more likely to be struck by lightening while purchasing a lottery ticket' scenario..since more purchase lottery tickets than ski (though skiing is not mentioned in the more likely scenario.. but hey)..and they are pretty much more stupid too, so they get it!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Don'tcha love the teeny-tiny caveat:
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 06:53 PM by WinkyDink
"The components of that explosives mixture can be bought at any drugstore or supermarket; however, there is some question whether the potential terrorists would have had the skill to properly mix and detonate their explosive cocktails in-flight."

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, I have a GUT FEELING! nt
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Funny!!
Joe
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Here's a whole explanation . . .
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. The friend who thinks explosives are a blast
Says that they would most likely have blown the door off the washroom and/or killed themselves by inhaling the fumes, rather than doing any irrevocable harm to the plane.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Did they do the simulation in an airplane lavatory?
That's what I want to know.

And how were they going to get the beakers and such on the plane?

That video was worthless.

And why are thet floating that crap right now?
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. Chemistry 101: Mixing an explosive on a plane in the lavatory is impossible.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just another "Be Afraid, AND Don't Forget, WE Keep You Safe" by turning the country into
a police state and suspending the Constitution.

Just in case you had any doubts about the new draconian wire-tap law.

And yes, I do think that they think we're idiots.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bullshit..you lyin' piece
of fascist garbage.
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