Randi just hinted that some Leaders in Congress are being blackmailed by Bush

[LSK]

"How can a president with an approval rating in the 20s demand Congress to stay until the bill is the way he wants it? Photos!"

- Randi about 2 minutes ago.

[Bluzmann57]

1. And the proof is where?

Just wondering.

[LSK]

3. i said she hinted

Its called speculation.

[onenote]

25. actually its called baseless speculation

[Cronus Protagonist]

33. I call it a tongue-in-cheek joke

:P

[Voltaire]

48. Blackmail would certainly make more sense

than the mealy-mouthed platitudes that were spewed out over the weekend

[htuttle]

2. Unfortunately, I think that's wishful thinking

[Vincardog]

14. Who would WISH that blackmail was the explanation for the Democratic cave in to *?

[htuttle]

I would find it easier to take than the Dems simply being feckless and complicit

It would be nice to think they were at least under duress, rather than merely being dishonest about their motives.

[tridim]

4. I think it's threats, not blackmail

Same result, different method.

[CrispyQ]

16. The main threat being:

Do you want to maintain your place at the trough? If so, you'll do what we say. If not, we'll replace you with someone who will.

The dems realize they are not going to be first in line at the trough, but second place is better than nothing so they will not rock the boat.

[tridim]

26. No, more like, "Does your family enjoy inhaling anthrax?"

Threats work for everyone, blackmail works only for the blackmailable.

[CrispyQ]

70. Never underestimate greed.

I think threats to cut people off from the trough work pretty well too.

[LSK]

32. what trough?? The Dems now control Congress and the GOP is in trouble

[CrispyQ]

35. It doesn't matter who controls Congress, the trough remains. --nt

[Canuckistanian]

63. Mind if I use that line?

That's a brilliant observation.

[CrispyQ]

69. It's not an original, so use it freely!

A really good read is "Pigs at the Trough" by Arianna Huffington.

http://www.amazon.com/Pigs-Trough-Corporate-Corruption-Undermining/dp/1400051266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2338533-6255352?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186452658&sr=8-1

You can only read it in small doses, however. :grr:

[Zodiak]

5. Well, that is one way

There are many scenarios, and we can guess all day long but we will never get closer to the truth until either the Democrats start howling about it or they start standing up to him.

Until then, I am done with fantasies that our Democrats (as a whole) are going to help one bit in stopping the Bush administration because it is the right thing to do. I will just react to their actions, or lack thereof.

[LSK]

8. Well the Bill could have been stopped by Pelosi, Reid or Hoyer

They control what comes to the floor and how its debated and passed right?

[Zodiak]

20. Yes they do

and from what I understand, the DEMOCRATIC version of the bill that did not violate the 4th amendment needed a 2/3 majority to win. The Bushco bill only needed a simple majority.

We set the rules for that...so please explain how it is that when we have control, the Republican bill was favored?

This is THE question on FISA that will determine whether the Democrats were railroaded, or they tied themselves to the tracks on purpose and then come to us as if they were the victms and not the American poeple.

I know one whistleblower already made a victim to this capitulation.

[Ian David]

6. The Anthrax attacks gave Bush unfettered access to Democratic computers and files.

Not to mention all the laptops stolen from Democratic campaign offices.

And all the fire alarms and various evacuations in Congress.

And let's not forget the Republican staffers who ADMITTED to hacking Democratic computers.

[LSK]

10. yes that was Orrin Hatch's staffers

[Richard D]

12. One word will do it:

Wellstone.

[Ian David]

17. Three years ago I would have said you were nuts. n/t

[Richard D]

22. Three years ago . . .

. . . I would have said I was nuts too. Now I think things are far more complicated and evil than I had imagined would be possible.

[cynatnite]

7. I fleetingly wondered if they cut a deal on this FISA mess...

dumping Gonzo, perhaps...

But then I woke up.

[tekisui]

34. I had the same dream

sign the FISA-AG, Gonzo resigns. No need to have a confirmation, the next in line--Clemet, i think, becomes acting AG until bushit leaves.

[Solly Mack]

9. So what's in the photos? Murder? Rape? Hookers? Drug deals?

Bribes? Racist talk? Sexist talk? Beating their spouses? Beating their kids? Adultery?

Exactly what have members of the Democratic Party been up to for anyone to be able to blackmail them?

Cause I'm not seeing it...

[leftchick]

11. the more likely answer is

they are complicit.

[LSK]

13. that is logically IMPOSSIBLE in this case

This bill allows Bush to spy on ...


...


....

DEMOCRATS!!!

[Individualist]

19. Yours is the correct answer

I never bought into the cowardice/blackmail excuses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1525073&mesg_id=1525073

[LSK]

21. why would Dems allow themselves to be wiretapped?

Makes no sense.

[Individualist]

27. They'd allow it because it would confirm their complicity

Complicity: a secret agreement or cooperation between two parties for an illegal or dishonest purpose
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=complicity

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

[leftchick]

55. thank you

I thought it was very obvious by now, but apparently not.

[Ian David]

15. Here's ONE way to fight back. Invent a "Harry Caul" machine for C-SPAN footage

Invent a device that let's you filter-out and clarify individual conversations from C-SPAN of congressmen milling about the floor of congress.

Do we think maybe the Republickers have already been doing this?

[LSK]

18. oh that would be one hell of a device

But Alberto is probably already bugging the Senate Chamber.

[MasonJar]

23. I have posted two or three times lately that I think that the GOPers

threaten the family members of our reps. I feel confident that they did that to Daschle. I would not be surprised at all to find they have done so to several in the current Congress. I most especially feel that the big bad boogie men have intimidated John Conyers. These pugs are powerful and they are mean.

[LSK]

28. Not Conyers

"Conyers is one of the 13 founding members of the Congressional Black Caucus, and is considered the Dean of that group. Formed in 1969, the CBC was founded to strengthen African-American lawmakers' ability to address the legislative concerns of Black and minority citizens. He has served longer in Congress than any other African-American. In 1971, he was one of the original members of Nixon's Enemies List."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conyers

His problem is he doesnt think he has the votes on his Committee for Impeachment.

[defendandprotect]

61. Daschle got Anthraxed . . . and right-wing demonizing that I think really, really frightened him --

Those things were in the open -- and very frightening --

[Uben]

24. To be honest guys.......

...none of us here are privvy to what intelligence is floating around right now. I think we are all aware that there could be some reason to suspect that terror cells are operating in the U.S. as we speak. If that were the case, I could see why congressional dems might be willing to go along with increased surveillance measures. All we need is for there to be an attack before the elections and we come off looking weak and not up to handling terrorists. This thing is under so much scrutiny now, I don't think the bastards would abuse it for political gain.

Only another attack on the U.S. llke 9/11 could keep a democrat from taking the presidency in 08. And even then, there would have to be circumstances that show the reason it happened was because this congress did not pass certain measures to prevent it.


I am not saying I agree with the passage of this new FISA bill, just that there could be things we just do not know, and our congressmen do! We either trust them or we don't. Not being privvy to all intelligence gives me reason to believe there was legitimate reason for passing this new bill. After all, we have the majority and could stop it if there were reason to do so.

[LSK]

30. but from what I hear the FISA court approved 90% of requests

AND

You could go to the court AFTER THE FACT.

The reason Bush doesnt want to go to the court is he is SPYING FOR POLITICAL REASONS.

[defendandprotect]

62. No one is asking for the details -- but one JUDGE resigned --

and, of course, Ashcroft stood against the ideas being offered to him as Comey? did --

Also, quite a large handful of DOJ attorneys were prepared to resign???

These people sho uld be brought in and their testimony taken at least in closed session . . .
to protect them.

[MrCoffee]

39. "We either trust them or we don't." You can include me in the latter.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

29. Personally I vote for threats...

Those who are willing to kill hundreds of thousands for personal gain wouldn't balk at killing a few hundred more.

Can you say "Blackwater"?

Sure, I knew you could.

[defendandprotect]

64. I agree -- the most logical --

Hoover's way was probably easier . . . simple blackmail --

but I don't think the public is shocked any more when someone has an affair --

or is homosexual. Yeah, a transvestite would probably be open to ridicule????


Think of all the prejudices that used to apply --

I think the messages are out there in the big, big open that if you give these people a hard

time you are going to have problems -- with your business -- I mean the networks worried about

that; losing their licenses --

And I'm sure that even former AGs who have talked are worried --
They were threatened in not such subtle ways -- !!!!!
And I'm sure some still fear what might be done to their careers in future.

And then we have all of the plane crashes --

Too much has gone on to be coincidental --

too, too much.

[MrCoffee]

31. Can i play Let's Make Shit Up to Cover Their Sorry Asses Again too?

i love that game. we're getting REALLY GOOD at it, too.

[Lint Head]

36. Bush can't be blackmailed. His crimes areout in the open and nobody

gives a shit. :dem:

[Fearless]

37. Hey I give a shit!

[LSK]

42. uhh, try it the other way around

[AndyTiedye]

38. Blackmail, Death Threats, and Actual Death

They have the ultimate blackmail machine

With enough tapes, they can just cut-and-paste to come up with something that would be utterly damning on the 6-o'clock news.
They have their US Attorneys always ready to prosecute Dems who get in the way, no matter how flimsy the evidence.

If that doesn't work, they have this anthax.


and they can make their airplanes fall out of the sky.

[flyarm]

40. it's obvious!! you would need blinders on to not know it!! eom

[onenote]

41. so it just happens that they "have something" on the conservative Democrats

But not on the liberal and progressive democrats?

[goodgd_yall]

60. Does anybody want to answer this?

Because I can't think of a good answer. Were they perhaps the sacrificial lambs? Or maybe not? What if the constituents of the pro-FISA Democrats are happy with their reps votes? In that case how would their votes be sacrificial?

[shance]

43. Why don't they simply SAY IT? Why dont they hold a press conference and say they are being threate

threatened?

[AntiFascist]

58. UMM, maybe because they're not proud of what could get disclosed?

:shrug:

[Hersheygirl]

44. I don't think that is too far off the mark.

How many here remember Chandra Levy, the girl who was hooked romantically to Gary Condit, a Dem rep from California. She disappeared, then was later found murdered. He said he had nothing to do with it, but resigned anyway. Believe me, I'm sure she wasn't the only mistress of senators and representatives. And I'm sure Rove is another Hoover.

[onenote]

49. quick get the tinfoil antidote

Let's review. First, Gary COndit was a well-known creep. Second, he was a Blue Dog who, after he resigned, was replaced by another Blue Dog Democrat, but one who voted against the FISA bill. Doesn't seem like the set-up of Gary Condit intimidated him. And since virtually all of the Democrats that voted for the FISA bill (a) voted for a timetable to withdraw troops and (b) are conservative, are we to conclude that they weren't intimadated on the former and that no progressives have anything in their past that they could be blackmailed on?

[LSK]

50. Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer CONTROL WHAT GETS VOTED ON

This bill should have been tabled indefinately and they should have told Bush to go F himself.

[onenote]

53. what does that have to do with blackmail?

[peaches2003]

45. They just want to be reelected

They are not being blackmailed- Bush doesn't have to bother with that. They FEAR the 30 second commercials Rove will put out that they are soft on terrorism and won't give the govt what it needs to defend us and prevent another attack. And if there should be another attack it will be blamed on the Dems denying Bush what he needs to have prevented the attack. People will believe this carap; Bush has them so scared.

I am NOT happy with Randy today. She talks on and on blaming the Repugs and doesn't want to lay the blame where it belongs- Pelosi and Reid for their inept leadership (why did the bill come to the floor???) and the Dems who voted with the Repugs. Why is she so hesitant to speak the truth about Pelosi and Reid??? Personally I think she is too friendly with some of these Congress people and lays off them to keep her inroads into Congress. JMHO.

[LSK]

46. yeah, that one caller a few minutes ago wanted to go there

And she kinda brushed it off.

[peaches2003]

52. Right you are

Randi does 99% of the talking on her show and takes relatively few calls. So she sets the tone and topic of the discussion and today there was very little pointed at the individual Senators/Congressmen for their pro-Bush votes.

She sure brushed that caller you are talking about off- some crapola about there is nothing she can do about changing the leadership. There is plenty she can do, but I think she doesn't want to make waves and wants to keep her 'friends' in Congress. That's the problem with the progressive press and media. Very disappointed in her and I fully expect next time she sees NPelosi or one of these Dem traitors she will be giddy with excitement.

[Beelzebud]

47. Blackmail is easier to handle than the truth: The Democrats are complicit...

[LSK]

51. they are complicit in spying on themselves???

That doesn't make sense.

[Beelzebud]

56. They are complicit in getting rid of the constitution...

[defendandprotect]

66. Those who vote with the GOP have the SAME interests . . . we can only presume why . . .

we don't know. And, seemingly, Reid and Pelosi aren't working to preserve their majority status -- they're not holding the field -- they're not using their power which is quite obvious to most of us.

We can guess at what's going on . . . but I think we have to wait until someone on the inside tells us. Bernie Sanders says fear. Maybe he's naive? I've found that hard to believe.

Threats -- I can believe that. But, again, we don't really know unless someone begins to tell us.

The only thing we can conclude is that we don't like the behavior --
so, let's simply try to get something done about that --

Knowing the motives for this behavior would be helpful in understanding what we need to do.
But I don't think anyone is going to tell us.
Who might tell us?

And I do think we have to consider complicity --
Not because they fear being tapped -- they probably already are tapped.
But, perhaps, because they consider it part of the privilege of being part of the elite who know?

Keep in mind they had bugged Einstein's Princeton home? They've bugged the UN, the Supreme Court -- members of the Senate Intelligence Panel.

Nixon bugged Kissenger's home -- !!!!

[Buttercup McToots]

54. I think they are being blackmailed...

Ever wonder if warrantless wiretapping might have provided the leverage to get this FISA 'concession' from Congress?

Posted by:
Date: August 6, 2007 4:44 PM


To follow on, ask yourself why Rove has occupied the corner office in the West Wing for the last six years while he could be making millions more raising funds and consulting.

Ask yourself why he holds the title Deputy Chief of Staff.

And then understand that that corner office and that title brings the ability to ask for information and be briefed by the collective resources of the US federal government. He has access to an incredible level of information and data.

Access and data that would not be available to Karl, private citizen.

Posted by:
Date: August 6, 2007 5:19 PM

[AuntPatsy]

57. It would be unwise if you ask me to just ignore that very real threat.

After all, it is not beyond the realm of possibility with these guys.

[Holly_Hobby]

59. No shit. n/t

[Semper_FiFi]

65. I like Randi...but I doubt she is correct on this. n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

67. Joe Wilson said something about them attempting to blackmail him.

I certainly don't think they are above using blackmail for political purposes.

I was listening to an interview with Joe Wilson a month or two ago (I cannot remember the show) and he said that when he was trying to sound the alarm that the yellow cake stuff was bogus, they tried to blackmail him to keep him quiet. He said he'd have none of it and that's when they went after his wife.

The interviewer didn't ask him any more about it, as it was just a part of a longer answer he was giving. I wish somebody would follow this up sometime asking him more particulars about where and who the blackmailer was. I think it's a heck of a story.

[orleans]

68. i only heard randi for about the last twenty minutes today

but i did hear her say something (maybe a caller suggested this idea) about trent lott saying they had to get out of washington d.c., that there is talk in d.c. about another attack coming in d.c., and that the dems don't want bush to ever be able to say the dems didn't do everything they could in order for bush to protect us. so when the shit hits the fan the blame will be squarely on bush.

that--i guess--makes sense to me. at least at this point.