how should you deal with a crazy wing nut?

[mopinko]

i know that my approach is usually to bash them in the head, usually metaphorically, where applicable. which usually only feeds it. i can't really resist fighting it, apparently.
but when it is a family member, someone on the job, a neighbor, what do you do? what do you do when it is here are du? what do you do when it is a very public situation?
i was recently smeared on the neighborhood nut blogs. so far i have resisted, mostly, since they don't post what you send them anyway. but i did have to lay a smackdown on someone, and had my real identity come out as a result. i am working on a new blog, and am trying to resist the urge to go tit for tat with these people.
i also just pissed off a long, long, long time friend, because he was spouting the right wing bs about gore. big house, yada yada. we both knew we had differences. but i just couldn't take it. i couldn't ignore it any more for the sake of friendship.
blech.

[Demit]

1. Shame about your friend. But the differences were always there.

You'll either both learn to skirt the subjects that bring you to loggerheads or your friendship will just naturally fade away. I'm afraid I speak from experience.

[mopinko]

4. yup

not the first. not even the worst.

[Solly Mack]

2. I draw a circle and then tell them to walk a straight line

keeps'em occupied

[mopinko]

5. would that is was so easy.

and what if you are talking on the phone?

[Solly Mack]

8. I hang up

[mopinko]

12. i had to.

man.

[PBass]

3. Mockery and sarcasm work VERY well. Yelling, arguing and fingerpointing, not so much (NT)

[Sparkly]

6. Sometimes it's best to feel sorry for them.

If you have to be civil, remind yourself that they've been deceived and deluded by some shrewd salespeople who knew how to play on their fears. (And that's what it always boils down to -- fear.)

[Gregorian]

13. Pity is the gateway to forgiveness.

I just made that up. So it might be totally bs. But it seems to work for me. Sort of a tilting of the playing field. I'm lucky, and smart, to have almost no freepers in my entire life. I can't imagine.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. It depends upon the situation

But one important thing to do is to listen to what they are saying. If, for example, all they are doing is saying negative things, ask them what they would do differently-what positive change would they make? That is often harder to explain. If they are dissing a Democratic candidate, and have specifics (example: they are pro-choice), ask them what they think of Guliani, since he, too, is pro-choice. I know one DUer here who stopped a rw co-worker from going all out for Fred Thompson by telling her of his ties to pro-choice groups.

The strategy here is not to change their ideas-doubtful if you can- but to guide them away from any of the GOP candidates that have a chance of winning the Presidency. If he or she says they like Huckabee, just nod in agreement and say you think it is wonderful that he was able to lose 100 pounds and become more healthy (which really happened, and it is is nice when someone can do that)-you've said something nice but non-political about a candidate that doesn't have a prayer of being nominated, thus enforcing their support for said candidate.

[mopinko]

10. sad part- my friend says- all politicians are crooks and liars.

if voting changed anything, they would outlaw it. bill clinton set the women's movement back 50 years.
so, he refuses to vote. even to get rid of george bush. i don't mind that so much, but he insists on making me out a yuppie chump. after a 25 year friendship.

[Habibi]

16. Well,

I'm beginning to get on board with "All politicians are crooks and liars", myse'f. Does just agreeing with him work to further the conversation?

Otherwise, how 'bout a waffle iron in a pillowcase?

Just kidding. Of course.

[mopinko]

19. i can't agree.

i give him 70%, maybe 75%. but i have worked with some truly decent people, and helped them get elected, or tried to. and i know they are out there. to say they all are corrupt is to leave those who need us out to sea. can't do it.

[Habibi]

20. Much to my chagrin,

I agree with you. The folks on the local level mostly seem to be--well, on the level.

But for emergencies, please consider the waffle iron.

:D

[mopinko]

22. i'll keep my eye out in the thrift shops. i don't have one.

i do, however, have several aluminum bats left over from the little league days.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

38. well, take heart in the fact

that his vote isn't cancelling yours. People like that are best ignored.

[hobbit709]

9. I usually ask

"Are you natural-born stupid or did you take lessons?"

[mopinko]

11. thanks for the laugh.

i will have to remember that one. i could probably get a lot of use out of it.

[sutz12]

35. It also works to ask....

"Were you born an asshole, or have you been working at it?"

J/K. ;)

[rucky]

14. They don't seem to be worried about it when they spout off. n/t

[Bluzmann57]

15. As one who has had a bad temper

I can tell you that it just isn't worth it. Just laugh at them and walk away. I have tried reasoning with them, debating them in a reasonable fashion (good luck with that), yelling at them, threatening them, and none of that stuff works with the hardcore 25 pct. but laughing at them, not with them, usually shuts them up.

[mopinko]

17. trying to walk away. resigned to lefty friends, or

none if that is what it is. family, too. such our our times.

[tabasco]

18. Try to be nice.

That's the way to be. If they're not nice to you, avoid them.

[PDJane]

21. It's sometimes all you can do.

They ask me stupid questions....things like, "All taxation is, is taking money from those who earned it to give to those who can't. Do you think that's fair?" When I answer yes, it usually leaves them totally speechless for that important few seconds.

"I don't have kids. Should I pay for someone else's brat to go to school?" (And why not? Someone else chipped in to educate you, no matter how badly educated you are...)

I could go on, but it's the same thing we all have to deal with sooner or later, I think. I get less of it, usually, because I live in Canada, but it's still there.

[annabanana]

39. Should I pay for someone else's brat to go to school?

How well educated should your doctor be? The guy who designed that airplane you're getting on tomorrow?

[Shine]

23. Don't get sucked into talking and focusing on what your differences are

It's just easier and more pleasant to find the things you can agree on.

As it's been said before, "What you resist, persists."

I would tend to be a bit more flexible and allow people their own opinions, as misguided as I may feel they are.

[mopinko]

27. i did for a long time.

he is someone who has helped my work on my house. building things together was great. he is also very attached to my kids.
but when he said al gore was a liar and a thief, that was just too much for me.

[Shine]

28. I'm sorry, it sucks that a good friendship like that has to be lost over politics

:hug:
in the end, do his opinions about Gore really matter THAT much when you stack it up against all those years of friendship and connection?

Isn't he entitled to his own opinion, as different as it is from yours? Can you simply agree to disagree? Yes, he has different values, but I'm sure there are some you DO have in common.

Life would be too easy if we were only surrounded with those that agreed with us all the time. :D Conflicts can either provide a great opportunity to create positive change OR they can take us down a path of great suffering. We get to choose. Do we choose Separation or Connection? In my heart of hearts I believe, ultimately, we are all ONE.

I don't mean to sound as if I'm demeaning your reality and your feelings, mopinko. It's just that I'm all about building bridges between people, not burning them.

:hug:

[mopinko]

31. i just don't know.

we seem to be finding more and more things to disagree about. he seems to think that i have become a yuppie. i'm not really sure what that means, but to him it seems to mean having a decent income, and not having too much to sweat. he recently married and had a kid, and maybe he is just feeling the weight. i dunno.
the bigger issue we have is local. he hates ritchie daley, and i think he is a great mayor. he thinks the olympics will destroy too many neighborhoods, even tho the footprint is amazingly unobtrusive.
i just think if you don't vote, you can't bitch. if you make a virtue of not voting, maybe i just can't get along with you.

[jazzjunkysue]

24. Laugh.

[Warpy]

25. I generally tell them they're absolutely wrong and that they don't

know what they think they know because they're listening to the wrong people. Then I walk away. Fighting them and trying to bury them in facts just makes them more defensive as they try to cling to rubbish they're basing their whole lives on.

I don't give them tacit approval. I just tell it like it is and that's that. Few spout at me again. A very few start to ask questions about where to get the other side of the story.

I'm afraid a lot of people are going to be buried in unpleasant facts they can no longer afford to ignore as the housing bust starts to hit them in ways they never expected. American prosperity has been built upon the ability to leverage debt for far too long. A lot of folks who think they're middle class because of what they're paying off are going to discover that their net worth is more important, and they won't have any.

[mopinko]

26. pretty much what happened.

he says i sound just like his sister, so at least he has someone who talks to him. maybe he will start to see a little light, and at least realize that we have had the damn conversation a million times, and let it go.

[struggle4progress]

29. Depends on context and the point of the interaction.

If there's no chance of a meaningful conversation on a particular topic, why bother?

If the person might at some point change viewpoint, but is opinionated and ill-informed, try a one-on-one conversation based on questions, not argument: you ask (rather specifically) Well, what did you think about such-and-such? where their knowledge is quite likely to be limited. Be pleasant and act as if you thought they knew something about the topic. Respond to idiotic and misleading soundbites with specific questions: What were his/her exact words? What exactly did the bill say? What is the evidence for this-or-that? If the other person begins asking you questions, you can always make your statements as questions: Didn't he say such-and-such? The point is that highly opinionated people will react aggressively to any opinions you express, so you're trying not to provide that opening.

On the other hand, if it's a necessarily public conversation, conducted in front of people who don't know you well, but who's minds might be open, be fairly firm in your statements of fact, avoid complicated grammar, don't talk in paragraphs and don't be defensive. Try to avoid a discussion that degenerates into a shouting match or name-calling or monologues: if the discussion degenerates, express disappointment and immediately terminate it (I'm not interested in name-calling)

As far as neighborhood blogs go, try very hard to avoid writing anything that is long, complicated, emotional, insulting, or slanderous. Regularly post a few facts with a link. If somebody slanders you on the blog, and your behavior has been good, ask to have the remark removed: if somebody called me a "traitor" on a neighborhood blog, for example, I'd seriously consider having my lawyer send them a little note.

[mopinko]

32. the blog thing is too long to tell all, but

i got the howard dean scream treatment at a public meeting. then, i lost my cool at a comment made about me- that i was a tool of the party. i tried to respond and still keep my anonymity. that failed, and some nasty things were said about me, and my artistic achievements. it just might get ugly, as i am supposed to get some work on a hotly disputed mural project. yes, people can be jerks about a mural. really stupid jerks. youtube, here i come.

[Mz Pip]

30. I approach this

from the conservative point of view. I recommend reading "The Bush Betrayal" by James Brovard. He shreads BushCO.

I know I cannot win an argument if I just argue from the liberal perspective. So I learned how Bush Co is not conservative and go from there.

Talk about a mind fuck.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[mopinko]

41. oh, he hates bush

he just doesn't see the diff between al gore and george bush. so deep, i can't breathe.

[Beerboy]

33. At my union job,

anyone voicing anti-Democratic and anti-union statements ostracize themselves from our community, it's kind of like junior high again. Union members need to stick together to stick it to the man, and we don't need any round-heels.

[KAZ]

34. Kick them in the balls. But you best have a really good aim.

Those suckers are hard to find.

[valerief]

36. Tranquilizing dart gun works best. nt

[tech3149]

37. Since they generally can't deal with facts and logical thought

I just laugh at them and offer the opportunity to come back when they have a reasoned argument. If it's truly a friend, the best thing is to enlighten them one small baby-step at a time. They can only deal with reality in small bites.

[mopinko]

42. trouble is, he thinks he is informed.

and i may get in some trouble here by saying this, but maybe someone can give me some insight. i suspect that part of the problem is this- he is 40+ but fairly newly married, with a small son. he is blissfully happy. i have actually never met his wife, but know she is black. he and i are both white. i think she is big in the church here. this is chicago. there is a strong streak of "stick it to the man" in the philosophy of many of the african american congregations. i got the feeling that is where some of this stuff is coming from. when he insisted that he got info from a lot of places, he mentioned "the call", which is the nation of islam paper.
what really pissed me of was that he insisted that my problem was that i only saw things from my white, upper middle class, tv formed perspective. like all the sudden, i am white. i have been white the whole time.
oh well.

[youthere]

40. Just pop that wing nut in your mouth and crunch down hard...

oh wait..I'm thinking of a CORN nut.