So Many Dark Things we Don’t Know about

[Time for change]

I walked into El Presidente’s office two days after he was elected and congratulated him… I said “Mr. President, in here I got a couple hundred million dollars for you and your family, if you play the game – you know, be kind to my friends who run the oil companies, treat your Uncle Sam good.” Then I stepped closer, reached my right hand into the other pocket, bent down next to his face, and whispered, “In here I got a gun and a bullet with your name on it – in case you decide to keep your campaign promises.” I stepped back, sat down, and recited a little list for him, of presidents who were assassinated or overthrown because they defied their Uncle Sam: from Diem to Torrijos – you know the routine. He got the message. – John Perkins, quoting an anonymous source in his new book, “The Secret History of the American Empire – Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption”.


I’ll get back to the above excerpt from Perkins’ book in a little while. But first I’ll talk a little bit about Will Pitt’s (hope he returns to DU) recent intriguing and somewhat cryptic post titled, “I’m sticking with the Dems, and I’m a good progressive. Here’s why that’s true”.

Discussing how bad things are in our country today, Pitt focuses a good part of his post on our military industrial complex. Starting with World War II, he says:

From then on, right up to this day, a significant foundation of our economy was the preparation for and fighting of wars. The defense contractors who got rich in WWII became wealthy beyond imagination, and their influence grew even more… By 1960, the private apparatus of war production was a kingdom unto itself. The loop of self-justification was set, and it became a frictionless machine that devoured tax dollars and turned out weapons to make sure we always needed weapons and would keep paying those tax dollars to get them…. Corporations with human rights, enriched by war and the permanent establishment of the wartime economy, made rich again by 25 years of war, and by 1976 legally able to use their vast wealth to buy and control the entire government. These are the super-citizens, who have all the rights you have and ten million times more power to press those rights.

To make the point of how ingrained into the heart of our nation this system is, Pitt says:

It comes down to this. Any politician of either party who reaches national stature has, at some point before, signed on the dotted line agreeing to support and maintain this situation. The Democrats do this just as the Republicans do. Every president since Kennedy has done this. On this all-important point, there is truly no difference between the parties.

A book that I recently finished reading, “House of War – The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power”, makes a similar point. Written by James Carroll, the son of a three star U.S. Air Force General, the main theme of the book is that the Pentagon has become a tremendously powerful entity unto itself, beyond the control of anyone, even American presidents. In the last pages of his book, Carroll says:

The Pentagon defines America’s reach across the world, and for countless millions that reach is choking… The Pentagon is now the dead center of an open-ended martial enterprise that no longer pretends to be defense. The world itself must be reshaped… The Pentagon has, more than ever, become a place to fear.

Both Pitt’s post and Carroll’s book ring very true to me. And yet, the scope of power at issue is so vast that I can barely comprehend it, and so many more questions are raised than answered. Why can’t a U.S. president exert control over the Pentagon, all of whose employees report directly or indirectly to him? Even after reading Carroll’s excellent “National Book Award” winning book, I still couldn’t comprehend that. And why, as Will Pitt says, do all political candidates who reach national stature have to “sign on the dotted line agreeing to maintain and support this situation”? Is it simply because our corporate news media will rip them to shreds if they don’t? Or is it something darker than that. Perkins’ book suggests that it’s something darker than that.


What John Perkins has to say about this

Most people may be more familiar with John Perkins as the author of “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” than as the author of the book I refer to at the beginning of this post. Perkins describes the role of an economic hit man as follows:

Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet's natural resources. Their tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.

The EHMs are responsible for the first phase of what is usually a two phase strategy. The EHM tries to get a country’s leader(s) to play ball. In general, only when the leader refuses to cooperate are extreme measures such as assassination or overthrow resorted to. As Perkins explains, overthrowing a government, through assassination or otherwise, can be extremely risky. Therefore:

No sane person assassinates a head of state without first trying to bring him around. No politician or CIA agent would consider it. Not even the most hardened mafiosos would do that. It is simply too risky. And too messy.

Perkins’ anonymous source who provided the opening quote of this post was also an EHM. He confided the above quoted exploit to Perkins (who had already published “Confessions”) because he was disgusted with the whole business, though he didn’t know how to safely quit, and he needed someone to talk to about it.


Thoughts on the accuracy of Perkins’ claims

Not surprisingly, Perkins has been called a (gasp) “frothing conspiracy theorist”. But what he has to say is hardly based on “theories”. He worked as an EHM for many years, on many different projects in different countries. He has extensive personal experience with how the system works.

And anyhow, it’s not like the idea of our government having its hands in the overthrow and assassination of foreign leaders is hard to believe. The CIA overthrew Mohammed Mossadeq, the democratically elected Prime Minister Iran in 1953; it overthrew Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, the democratically elected president of Guatemala in 1954; it overthrew Salvador Allende, the democratically elected president of Chile in 1973; it participated in the overthrow of Achmad Sukarno in Indonesia in 1965; as described by William Blum in his article, “A Concise History of US Global Interventions, 1945 to the Present”, the United States intervened in eleven different South and Central American countries during the Cold War; and the Church Committee interim report published in 1975 determined that “American officials encouraged or were privy to coup plots which resulted in the deaths of Patrice Lumumba of the Congo, Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, and Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam.

The above list includes only the episodes for which good documentary evidence exists. Who knows how many similar episodes have gone undocumented? Perkins supplied two more in his book – the two plane crash deaths of Omar Torrijos of Panama and Jaime Roldos of Ecuador, in 1981 shortly after Ronald Reagan took office. Manuel Noriega tried to introduce evidence of the assassination of Torrijos, at his trial in 1991, but the evidence was not allowed to be introduced because it would have violated the Classified Information Procedures Act.


Assassinations within the United States

A common theme to the above noted foreign assassinations is that most of the victims were trying to do right for the people of their country, and in so doing they posed a major threat to entrenched interests. Well, foreign leaders aren’t the only ones who pose threats to entrenched interests. Yet, many Americans who don’t have much trouble acknowledging our government’s assassination of foreign leaders nevertheless consider its assassination of our own leaders or other citizens of our country to be in the realm of “conspiracy theories”. But consider the following:

John F. Kennedy
A few months before he was assassinated, John F. Kennedy gave a great and radical speech on behalf of peace that probably seemed terribly threatening to the military industrial complex. Here are some excerpts:

Some say that it is useless to speak of world peace or world law or world disarmament -- and that it will be useless until the leaders of the Soviet Union adopt a more enlightened attitude. I hope they do. I believe we can help them do it. But I also believe that we must re-examine our own attitude -- as individuals and as a Nation -- for our attitude is as essential as theirs. And every… thoughtful citizen who despairs of war and wishes to bring peace, should begin by looking inward -- by examining his own attitude toward the possibilities of peace, toward the Soviet Union, toward the course of the Cold War and toward freedom and peace here at home.

First let us examine our attitude toward peace itself. Too many of us think it is impossible. Too many of us think it is unreal. But that is dangerous, defeatist belief. It leads to the conclusion that war is inevitable -- that mankind is doomed -- that we are gripped by forces we cannot control…

Let us focus instead on a more practical, more attainable peace -- based not on a sudden revolution in human nature but on a gradual evolution in human institutions -- on a series of concrete actions and effective agreements which are in the interest of all concerned.

There is no single, simple key to this peace -- no grand or magic formula to be adopted by one or two powers. Genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts. It must be dynamic, not static, changing to meet the challenge of each new generation. For peace is a process -- a way of solving problems.

Six weeks later, Kennedy announced to the American people the first nuclear test ban treaty between the United States and the Soviet Union. He then undertook secret negotiations with Fidel Castro in an attempt to come to an accommodation with him. And, he began talking with his close associates about pulling out of Vietnam.

Kennedy was killed about four months after his speech. Officially, his death was the work of a lone gunman, shooting him in the back of the head from a book depository in Dallas. Suffice it to say that, in addition to a wealth of other evidence pointing towards a conspiracy, all ten physicians who treated him at the hospital on the day of his assassination have said that either the throat wound or the head wound that killed him, or both, entered him from the front.

Martin Luther King
Though Martin Luther King is well known for his heroism and leadership in our nation’s civil rights efforts, he is much less well known for his advocacy in the latter part of his life on behalf of the poor and on behalf of world peace – probably because our national news media considered those topics to be more threatening to entrenched interests. On behalf of economic justice:

He maintained that civil rights laws were empty without "human rights" -- including economic rights. For people too poor to eat at a restaurant or afford a decent home, King said, anti-discrimination laws were hollow…

King developed a class perspective. He decried the huge income gaps between rich and poor, and called for "radical changes in the structure of our society" to redistribute wealth and power. "True compassion," King declared, "is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."

And with regard to U.S. foreign policy:

King called the United States "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today." …From Vietnam to South Africa to Latin America, King said, the U.S. was "on the wrong side of a world revolution." King questioned "our alliance with the landed gentry of Latin America," and asked why the U.S. was suppressing revolutions "of the shirtless and barefoot people" in the Third World, instead of supporting them. In foreign policy, King also offered an economic critique, complaining about "capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries."

Martin Luther King was assassinated on April 4, 1968. The official story of his assassination does not mention any plots on the part of entrenched interests, though that official story has been widely questioned.

Paul Wellstone
Paul Wellstone in 2002 was probably the greatest thorn in the side of the Bush Administration and entrenched interests in general of any U.S. Senator. Had he lived, many thought it likely that, starting in 2003, he would have initiated a serious Senate investigation into the September 2001 terrorist attacks against our country. He died in a small plane crash just weeks prior to the 2002 mid-term elections, as it was becoming evident that he would win a third term to the U.S. Senate. It was thought at the time that a Wellstone victory in Minnesota would result in Democratic control of the Senate for the next two years (which would have been the case had Max Cleland not been defeated in Georgia in an obviously fraudulent election).

According to this article, “None of the typical causes of a small plane accident—engine failure, icing, pilot error—appear to have been involved.” Evidence suggests that both engines were running when the plane hit the ground. The plane had passed through the icing altitude without apparent difficulty, and it was cleared for approach to the airport. Both pilots were very experienced and skilled. The Beechcraft model in which Wellstone was flying has an excellent safety record. Though visibility was limited, it was well above the minimum required.

There had been no problems until shortly before the crash. Witnesses say that the plane hit the ground at an almost vertical angle, and the crash was followed by an “extreme post-crash fire”.

21st Century deaths of some other inconvenient persons
J. H. Hatfield wrote a scathing biography of George W. Bush, called “Fortunate Son”, which was published while Bush was running for President in 2000, and which detailed illegal Bush business dealings and a cocaine conviction that was expunged from official records. I read his book with great interest in early 2001, and shortly thereafter I was dismayed to hear of Hatfield’s “suicide” in a hotel room. When he died Hatfield was working on a new edition and had said that Bush allies threatened the lives of his family. Sander Hicks, in January 2003, announced that he was making the suicide notes available to forensics experts, to compare with handwriting samples that Hicks had acquired through the Freedom of Information Act, in order to arrive at an independent verdict in the case. I could not find any more recent information on this.

Cliff Baxter was a former Vice Chairman of Enron, and one of the few high level Enron executives who had tried to prevent Enron’s illegal activities. It was felt by many that his testimony could be devastating to top Enron officials and might even provide a vital link between Enron and the Bush Administration. Baxter, 43, was found shot to death in his car on the morning of January 25, 2002, near his home in Sugar Land, Texas. He had spoken with a friend recently about the fact that he felt he needed a body guard. As this article explains, local authorities quickly called his death a suicide, without a serious investigation or even an autopsy. But hours later, the local Justice of the Peace, Jim Richard, reversed his decision not to order an autopsy, citing intense public interest. This article discusses the autopsy findings and provides a copy of them. It notes that although the autopsy states “suicide” as the cause of death, no evidence is given to support that conclusion. It also goes into detail about how the physical findings are much more suggestive of murder than of suicide. And finally, it notes that Baxter would have had no need for ratshot, the ammunition used to kill him, and that ratshot is the perfect murder ammunition, since it leaves no evidence capable of matching the gun to the ammunition.

Raymond Lemme was the official from the Florida Inspector General’s office who was in the midst of investigating the election rigging charges of whistleblower Clint Curtis when he died. Curtis’ main allegation was that he was asked to write a computer program that would be capable of switching votes from one candidate to another, and which would be undetectable. Curtis also claims that Lemme had told him shortly before his death that he “had tracked the corruption all the way to the top”. Lemme was found dead in a Valdosta, Georgia, Knights Inn motel room on July 1, 2003. His arm was slashed twice with a razor blade, near the left elbow. The Brad Blog has thoroughly investigated this case and put forth several reasons to believe that it was not a suicide, as has been ruled by the Valdosta police.

Dr. David Kelly was a microbiologist and an expert in weapons of mass destruction. He had already blown the whistle regarding the exaggeration of British intelligence reports on the possibility of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, as the Bush Administration was trying to make the case for invading Iraq. This DU article speculates that the Bush Administration may have had yet a great deal more to fear from Dr. Kelly’s telling what he knew of the Administration’s devious plans for building a case for war in Iraq. On July 18th, 2003, Kelly was found dead in a secluded lane in Harrowdown Hill, with his left wrist slit. His death was ruled a suicide, but Jim Rarey feels that there were many red flags that indicated otherwise.

Colonel Ted Westhusing, one of the Army’s leading scholars of military ethics, volunteered to serve in Iraq in order to enable him to better be able to teach his students, as described in this article. A few weeks before he died, he had received an anonymous complaint that a private contractor was cheating the U.S. government and committing human rights violations, including participating in the killing of Iraqi military personnel and civilians. Westhusing reported all this, but an official investigation found his allegations to be “unfounded”. Westhusing was very upset about these findings. Shortly thereafter, in June of 2005, Westhusing was found dead in a trailer at a military base in Baghdad, with a gunshot wound to his head. The death was ruled a suicide. Shortly before his death he had expressed fear of being alone. His family and friends were troubled that he died “without a bodyguard, surrounded by the same contractors he suspected of wrongdoing. They wonder why the manager who discovered Westhusing's body and picked up his weapon was not tested for gunpowder residue.”

Gary Webb, the “investigative reporter who broke the story about the CIA's involvement with crack cocaine dealers in Southern California in the 1980’s”, was found dead in Sacramento in December 2004, from a gunshot wound to the head. The death was ruled a suicide. This article notes that Webb had been receiving death threats and discusses the impossibility of a suicide victim shooting himself in the face twice.


On the inexplicable inaction of our Democratic leaders

Towards the end of his post, Will Pitt in explaining why he is sticking with the Democratic Party, makes two points which on the surface appear quite odd: Though acknowledging that the Democrats are “bought in” to the system he nevertheless provides a number of reasons for sticking with them; and he notes that Bill Clinton was the most radical president of the 20th Century and almost succeeded in taking the entrenched interests apart.

On the surface, those assertions of Pitt’s don’t appear to make too much sense. If the Democrats are “bought in” to the system, then why should we rely upon them to do good things for our country? And with respect to Clinton, what about NAFTA, "welfare reform", and the Telecommunications Act of 1996?

Interestingly, Perkins has a passage in his book that provides some support to Pitt’s apparently wild statement about Bill Clinton being the most radical president of the 20th Century. In a discussion of how today’s leaders risk being “brought down” if they go too far, his anonymous source says:

Clinton went too far in his efforts to revise world currencies and he posed a huge threat to future Republican campaigns – he was just too young, dynamic, and charismatic. So Monica was marched into the spotlight. Don’t you believe that Bush has a few women in his background too? But who dares talk about them?... There are many ways to assassinate a leader who threatens U.S. hegemony.”

As for why we should trust the Democrats, a party that has “bought in” to the system, that has after nine months failed to make significant progress towards ending the war they were elected to end, that has failed to attempt to remove from office the most lawless presidential administration in the history of our nation, and that has even facilitated Bush’s Constitutional violations by voting for laws to justify them …. Well, as Will Pitt says:

Things are so much worse than bad right now, so absolutely rotten and twisted and lethal that it almost defies description. The enemy we face is more than evil, and is stronger than anything ever seen upon the Earth, and has no morality or conscience, and is capable of any depravity if it keeps their power intact.

Many of us believe that leaders who threaten entrenched interests in our country face substantial personal risks, though none of us know the specific nature or the extent of those risks. I believe it is reasonable to suppose that our Democratic leaders know more about those risks than we do. Perhaps many of them – John Conyers, for example – very much want to do the right thing but are facing constraints and personal risks that we can only imagine.

It seems highly unlikely that these things will be fixed quickly. All we can hope to do is the best we can – one day at a time.

[Richard D]

1. It's all so obvious . . .

. . . if you think a bit.
K&R'd

[frankly_fedup2]

2. It's to much to even fathom. (nt)

[dkofos]

3. Look at all the candidates people, and think, who will stop the madness.

And that will be the next president assassinated.
We are truly a vile country!!

[demodonkey]

4. Run for office and change what you can. Even if you only run for dog catcher.

Change. One. Office. At. A. Time.

They can't kill everybody.

[WhiteTara]

71. check with your county for open board positions

in our county there are almost 200 board positions not being filled. I became an official member of the central committee here in northern California and our committee has an additional 8 or 9 seats open.

I took my first oath of office to defend the constitution from enemies from both foreign and domestic. It was very emotional for me. I had tears in my eyes as I stated "I do".

[Vilis Veritas]

115. You are so right.

The battle now has to go local. It always has been really...local is the only way to take it back.

I am proud of you and your efforts. It is truly inspiring. I have recently relocated and I am working to do exactly what you are doing. I will probably do the same as you if I ever hear those words.

Peace.

[liberalmike27]

93. They Don't Have To Kill Everyone

Hell, they own the biggest MKUltra program available, the media. Hundreds of right-wing radio, and the MSM television outlets, are the best brainwashing tools available. Most people still think the press is "free" and "liberal". With that in mind, who needs to kill people.

If you want to know how duped people are just go to iwon politics, and look for some of the right-wing posts. While a few can string a sentence together, most of them are purely ignorant. They are obviously poor, and stupid, yet they are so deeply brainwashed that they will vote for the right until the day they die.

It is quite depressing, and I believe much of what was posted in the main line. If even half of it is true, then we are already done. I don't know what it will take, perhaps a goodly portion of domestic "insecurity" for those who are screwing us. Most liberals are quite peaceable, while conservatives by their nature are willing to kill to change policy, and have all the resources. Like they said in Gangs of New York, the great thing about the poor is when half of them get out of line and violent, the rich can hire the other half and give them guns to put down the revolt of the others. Still...

[Liberty Belle]

121. Then BE the media! I am starting an online community magazine in our red area.

Posting local voting records, providing links for people to contact their representatives, covering local political issues but also features like restaurant reviews and a calendar of local events and entertainment, so everyone will pass this around to their friends. I also have an RSS feed for national and international news including foreign news so they can find the truth.

Most of all I'll be covering local corruption and bad decisions by local decision makers - and stories empowering people to take action, such as covering a local town that's recalling its ENTIRE planning board after a controversial land use decision (okaying Blackwater to open up shop).

I hope to host workshops soon on training citizen journalists and teaching ordinary people how to run for public office for every position out here, from dogcatcher to Congress.

Together, we CAN make a difference.

Check out my new site (still under construction) at www.ourbackfence.org and please post comments in the SoapBox blog, bearing in mind that this is a red community of honest but largely deluded voters.

[Raksha]

163. Very nice blog! I only had a quick look,

but so far it's definitely a class act. I wish I knew how to do something like that, but I'm so computer illiterate I wouldn't know where to begin...

[Liberty Belle]

167. Find someone to partner with. I'm a techno-geek, too;

I just do the writing, editing and assigning stories, plus some photography.

So far we're both working for free but hoping to start selling advertising soon to cover our costs plus make a little income. I figure if we cover local festivals that bring business to small businesses, they should be willing to buy adds as long as the front page doesn't scream progressive too overtly.

[bbgrunt]

5. One thing is clear, however. We will never defeat

these forces without owning up to our own complicity in all the evil that has been perpetrated in our name. It is also clear that we need a leader that can focus our energy against these forces despite the fear or we will only end up with more of the same.

the protection for such a leader is a groundswell of support....and even that is not guaranteed to provide full body armor.

[Time for change]

58. That's a great point

Too many people in our country think that patriotism means shouting that we're better than everyone else, without even thinking about what we do. They think that anyone who questions the actions of our leaders is a traitor (unless our leaders are Democrats). That kind of thinking is the height of arrogance and nothing but a formula for disaster.

[raccoon]

168. Well said!

"dumbass fucktards" is too nice a term for the likes of them. :evilgrin:

[villager]

6. It springs out of WWII -- we never really "defeated" Naziism, instead ,

decisions were made (in the military/industrial corridors of power) allowing its sociopathic extremism to begin infecting us here, mutating our Republic and its institutions into what we have today...

[RufusTFirefly]

9. Yes indeed. Reinhard Gehlen. Operation Paperclip

Look 'em up.

Reinhard Gehlen
Operation Paperclip

[villager]

21. Knew about Paperclip. Not about Gehlen, specifically. Thx for the links.

"We became what we beheld," etc...

[defendandprotect]

23. We imported Nazis into our intelligence and even into NASA . . ..

See "Operation Paperclip" --

[villager]

29. Indeed I have.

Note the above posts.

[defendandprotect]

60. Very limited acknowledgment of this in MSM -- ---- --- ----

[dickbearton]

52. Imported Nazi?

We had the Nazi, Grandpa Bush, already here. Daddy Bush was
somewhat secretive about it and Junior is a Nazi wont to be.
They have been with us a long time. Now under stress Bush,
Cheney, and the rest are showing their true colors.

[JohnyCanuck]

94. Good point.

America 2007 is Germany 1930

By Norman Livergood

SNIP

Nazi Germany was created by the criminal cabal that currently rules the United States and much of the world. One of the early underlings of this cabal was Prescott Bush, Dubya's grandfather. Prescott Bush was a director of the Union Banking Corporation, which the U.S. government took over in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corporation stock shares, all of which were owned by E. Roland Harriman, Prescott Bush, three Nazi executives, and two other associates of Prescott Bush.

President Franklin Roosevelt's Alien Property Custodian, Leo T. Crowley, signed Vesting Order Number 248 seizing the property of Prescott Bush under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The order, published in obscure government record books and kept out of the news, explained nothing about the Nazis involved; only that the Union Banking Corporation was run for the Thyssen family of Germany and/or Hungary, nationals of a designated enemy country

This act by the U.S. government made it clear that Prescott Bush and the other directors of the Union Banking Corporation were in essence front men for the Nazis. By keeping news of this seizure quiet, the American government avoided the more important issue: in what way were Hitler and his Nazi cohorts set up, armed, and supported by the New York and London cartel of which Prescott Bush was an executive manager?

On Oct. 28, 1942, the U.S. government issued orders seizing two Nazi front organizations run by the Bush-Harriman bank: the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation. Nazi interests in the Silesian-American Corporation, long managed by Prescott Bush and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, were seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act on November 17, 1942. In this action, the government announced that it was seizing only the Nazi interests, leaving the Nazis' U.S. partners to carry on the business.

These were actions taken by the U.S. government during wartime, but Prescott Bush and his collaborators had already played a central role in financing and arming Adolf Hitler for his takeover of Germany. Harriman, Bush and the other cabal puppets had financed the buildup of Nazi war industries for the conquest of Europe and war against the U.S. They had also helped in the development of Nazi genocide theories and racial propaganda, with the slave labor and extermination camps as the result.

The cabal that controls America has moved as rapidly as possible to bring about the same conditions of dictatorship and fascism in the U.S. as it did in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. The first major thrust toward fascism began during the Bush takeover of the Reagan presidency. During Bush Senior's (second) presidency he pulled off the Iran-Contra drugs-for-weapons crime, the savings-and-loan heist, the illegal use of U.S. military force to protect Bush's criminal collaboration with Manuel Noriega, his man in Panama, and many other crimes of state.


http://www.hermes-press.com/germany1930.htm

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

84. And the University of Chicago...

... with Carl Schmitt, now we have the Federalist Society infiltrating our courts. <http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/12/232212/423>

[bananarepublican]

159. Prescott Bush was doing business with Germany before and during WWII.

The entire Bush family is wrotten the the very core.

[Jack Bone]

7. Great Post!!

K&R

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

8. It's becoming increasingly difficult to acknowledge how entrenched this country has become,...

,...in the strangle hold of the military-industrial complex AND hold onto a necessary belief in the possibility of change.

Excellent post. I've submitted my recommendation.

It's disappointing to read the responses to Will's posts. I think many have fallen into the trap of perpetual anger and cynicism with little room for hope or vision, anymore.

I've had to make sure I take leaves of absence from here to escape the perpetual negativity. However, I do return for the richly informative posts occasionally posted.

One thing is clear to me from life experience: there are so many decent and concerned human beings in the world worth my time and passion. My hope is that we re-learn how to pull together to spend our time and passion on the betterment of this world.

Just a few scattered thoughts.

[Karenina]

17. The Tree of Liberty...

[defendandprotect]

Obviously "change" is going to be costly .... as freedom has always been.

[irislake]

46. That is precisely why

DU is valuable. Think of the tremendous amount of information that is exchanged here by people from all over the world. The truth gets to the people in spite of the corporate medias efforts to control the information on behalf of the government. And think of the ties that are formed in the "global village". A nice example is the blog Riverbend which DU members mention frequently. I hope she is okay. She was leaving Iraq last I read.

Imagine in other wars information like this being accessible to us all? Maybe the corporate media won't report honestly on the wars post-Vietnam but look what happened because of troops access to internet. Would Abu Grhaib have come out. Lotsa stuff.

[dickbearton]

55. Plan for the future...

What makes you think the internet will always be this open.

[bagrman]

135. The internet will be one of the first things that dies with the next terror attack.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. K & R

Kucinich... if only

[Time for change]

90. Yes

He appears to be one candidate who hasn't "signed on the dotted line agreeing to support and maintain this situation".

Here's what I wrote about why I'm voting for him a few months ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x988702

[redqueen]

113. Yup... if only we had the courage to fight for what we need...

(that's the royal 'we', not you or me specifically)

[checks-n-balances]

11. Do you know which president he was referring to

in your opening paragraph/quote? Does he say?

Thanks also for this scary but enlightening thread.

[Time for change]

57. He did not say who it was

He made it clear that his conversations with his anonymous source were confidential. Providing too mcuh information could lead to the identification of either the president or the anonymous source, and in either case bad things could happen to them.

[checks-n-balances]

59. Sure, that makes sense, although that scene is really SCARY!!

I have my suspicions about who it was, though. Thanks for replying and for this thread.

[live love laugh]

12. Rec'd. for your hard work. I will have to read later. n/t

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

13. An Exceptional post! K&R

[musette_sf]

14. K&R n/t

[bonito]

15. Thanks for putting this all together

Great post!

[Greyhound]

16. K & R

[peacetalksforall]

18. How do we find, vote for, and keep representatives who think like

we do? I have the feeling that Republicans found people to run as Democrats just as they helped Joe L run as an Independent?

But that question implies that Democrats are different and that is what these posts are all about.

That is what 'scary utter gut wrenching fear' is all about.

The truth hurts. It is utterly painful. Certain so-called Dems are making us face the truth that there is no difference?

Like last night and the day before.

How about up and promising Webb and Klobuchar? Felt like I was sinking, sinking. I regret to say that I have come not to expect anything from Landrieu, Carper, and the Nelsons except to know that they must get great bear hugs from the Republicans. But, Webb and Klobuchar?

[defendandprotect]

26. Get rid of the DLC, for one thing --

Not only do the new Democrats seem to be recruited by Republicans -- but they are being welcomed with open arms by the Democratic Party!!!!

And we see more suggestions -- I've noted some by Hillary Clinton -- that the Democratic Party needs to change/compromise/be more flexible on its standards/ideals -- one case being "choice."

Addressing your most serious point . . . . don't we all know somehow that one day we are all called upon to decide whether we will give life for liberty-- ???

This gene pool of violent men has always been with us and others have found ways to defeat them -- !!!!

Our founders, unfortunately, made too many deals with this gene pool -- the compromise on slavery which led to the Civil War -- and the giving away of property to elites -- while basing the establishment of this nation on genocide against the native American Indian.

The House has always been too few in number to represent the true population -- right from the beginning.

And the Senate takes 18 years to overturn!!!! A steady thumb on any populist movement --

[Time for change]

95. I like what Al Gore has to say about this

In his book, "The Assault on Reason", one of his big themes is that the political debate in this country needs a great deal of improvement. 30 second sound bites just don't cut it with regard to informing people who they're voting for. The first thing to do is to break the corporate monopoly on the news media with responsible legislation. Then do away with legalized bribery of our legislators. Work towards a system of public financing of election campaigns so that we have a leverl playin field and have lots of debates where the candidates get the opportunity to fully discuss their viewpoints and respond to arguments.

We're a long wasy from that now.

[Skidmore]

19. Didn't stop the Roman empire from falling, did it?

Eventually you create so many enemies you can't kill everyone nor can you steal everything.

[defendandprotect]

22. Time to wake up . . . if you already don't know these things ----- !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!!

Actually, Pitt misses the point that JFK died because he defied the MIC/CIA --
JFK called off the Cold War --
and was also giving Americans a peace dividend in tax savings -- !!!!
JFK was also pulling our troops out of VN -- and would have "smashed the CIA to smithereens" --
and unfortunately, they got him before he got them.

They also got Clinton -- but only by impeaching his penis.

Yes, it is MIC, but it is also part of the CIA and certainly along with "big arms" it is also "big OIL" -- that was basically the line up in the JFK assassination and is true today.

LBJ's involvement, of course, was long term -- with OIL, with organized crime, with government corruption -- and based on his own untempered ambitions, greed and willingness to murder.

Relevant quote by Pitt: "It comes down to this. Any politician of either party who reaches national stature has, at some point before, signed on the dotted line agreeing to support and maintain this situation. The Democrats do this just as the Republicans do. Every president since Kennedy has done this. On this all-important point, there is truly no difference between the partiies."
----


ADDITIONALLY -- Pres. Eisenhower in his speech about the MIC INCLUDED THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY . . . IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF HIS SPEECH AND HE PUT IT BACK IN. IT WAS TAKEN OUT FOR A SECOND TIME. We have to understand that Eisenhower did include "intelligence" in his condemnation.
In fact, Eisenhower had been betrayed by the intelligence community, himself. The U-2 being one case where he had instructed that it NOT be flown for months prior to the Paris Peace Meeting.
Therefore, concentrating on the MIC alone without understanding the role that a rogue CIA plays is simply to confuse ourselves


Relevant quote: "A book that I recently finished reading, “House of War – The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power”, makes a similar point. Written by James Carroll, the son of a three star U.S. Air Force General, the main theme of the book is that the Pentagon has become a tremendously powerful entity unto itself, beyond the control of anyone, even American presidents. In the last pages of his book, Carroll says:

The Pentagon defines America’s reach across the world, and for countless millions that reach is choking… The Pentagon is now the dead center of an open-ended martial enterprise that no longer pretends to be defense. The world itself must be reshaped… The Pentagon has, more than ever, become a place to fear."

-------------


This political violence remains unacknowledged by our MSM which has actually worked to ridicule and shut off public debate about this issue -


And while the political violence needed to be recited -- JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, Paul Wellstone, Cliff Barnes, Raymond Lemme, David Kelly, Col. Westhusing, Gary Webb . . .

Before JFK, we have Dag Hammarskjold at the United Nations -- and Adlai Stevenson -- and probably many other world leaders who were working for peace in the world.

Political violence has been with us even longer . . . as we note from planned coup on FDR which was broken by Brig. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler -- a coup which was comprised of all the leading capitalists of the day!!!!

So -- look, as well, to Capitalism which creates great wealth for the few as also a vast part of our problem. In fact, unregulated Capitalism is merely organized crime.

America must take back control of her natural resources and remove them from the hands of a few private families which control them now.

AND NO ARTICLE LIKE THIS CAN FAIL TO MENTION 9/11 . . . AND THE PROBABLE INVOLVEMENT OF BUSHCO AND THE NEOCONS IN THAT EVENT.

Just one final point: I haven't yet looked at any of the threads on Israel --
however, I have long questioned the violence of that nation and one point which has helped me to understand it was in seeing that Nixon "supported Israel" by ARMING RIGHT-WING ISRAEL.

Israel and it's liberal politics has been overturned decades ago by this method --

Also -- I was quite startled to read that . . . "Israel's weapons production is so intertwined with America's weapons production that it is almost impossible to tell the difference between them."

Which explains a great deal of the "winking" between Sharon and Bush right after Bush's election.

[defendandprotect]

27. Somehow Fidel Castro and Chavez in Venezuela have escaped . . .

Not for a lack of trying by the CIA --

[CGowen]

20. more on MLK

In 1999, Coretta Scott King, King's widow (and a civil rights leader herself), along with the rest of King's family, won a wrongful death civil trial against Loyd Jowers and "other unknown co-conspirators". Jowers claimed to have received $100,000 to arrange King's assassination. The jury of six whites and six blacks found Jowers guilty and that "governmental agencies were parties" to the assassination plot.<35> William F. Pepper represented the King family in the trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

[defendandprotect]

28. Specifically, the FBI as I recall -- ???

Pepper did a fantastic job -- and I've seen him in a few interviews -- good man!!!

He's written a book on all of this which is in most libraries . . .

[CGowen]

30. thanks, I'm watching one now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3P7POHnJc

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6422766621060724540

[Time for change]

100. Wow, I didn't know that

Given that, I wonder why criminal trials aren't held now.

Thanks for the information.

[CGowen]

140. I just watched a video yesterday where he explained

that they did a trial for television. I think it was in 1993 and after that a lot of witnesses and people with information came out.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8419499993878733310&q=pepper+act+of+state&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[AntiFascist]

24. K&R, great post...

I might add, the military-industrial complex and the small group of individuals who maintain control over the world's resources may see their days numbered. All it will take is the replacement of oil with an energy alternative, and it will happen sooner or later as oil reserves become depleted. We have reason to be optimistic, but it still may take decades for change and things could get worse before they get better. These are the people who have the most to fear from Middle Eastern "blowback," but they will do everything in their power to transfer that fear to the rest of us, from possibly staging false flag events to maintaining a constant state of "strategic tension" within the US.

I just received a glossy, very professional investment solicitation in the mail that starts out: "Do you sincerely wish to grow rich? It's a bold question and in today's world, it is a very serious challenge...what with the latest roques gallery of despots, including Iran's Ahmadinejad and Venezuela's Chavez threatening the free-world's oil....Today's investment challenges and risks are very real and, at times, even frightening." It also includes a glossy booklet entitled: "The Great Game: The ongoing conflict for control of the world's oil and natural gas supplies" with pictures of tanks, battleships, and fighter jets.

So we're not even beating around the Bush anymore, American investors are being told that this is a Great Game all about controlling the world's resources.

We need to make wise investments in the future, ones that don't glorify the military-industrial complex which has now overtly changed from a body for national defense to one of imperialistic offense, all in the name of playing a Game.

[rucognizant]

32. Another power to watch for

Monsanto/Food/ Seeds!
I tried to buy parsely & lettuce seeds today. ( August 5, 2 more months of growing season.......) They have all been sent back already!
Two years ago Monsanto bought up 1/3 of the seed suppliers in the northeast including NB Canada. I called our local Maine seed co-op Fedco the next day. They were just becoming aware of it and took measures to dodge the bullet, discontinuing seeds from some of those other companies and expanding their seed banking heirloom seeds throughout the state.
Johnny;s seeds was oe step further ahead in the process. The next summer the seeds at all the reail stores began to disppear from the shelves mid summer
Happy to say I got Johnny's lettuce & parsley seeds from 1 hardware store today!
Are you aware that in Paul Bremmer's original constitution draft for Iraq, it was a felony to save and use heirloom seeds? JAILABLE OFFENSE! ABU GRABE anyone?
It's very dark!

[AntiFascist]

34. Speaking of "strategic tension"....

weren't we warned that the nation's food supply is particularly vulnerable? They probably don't want too many people growing their own vegetables.

[NotGivingUp]

53. i truly hate monsanto. we have got to throw all these jerks behind bars where they belong. nt

[defendandprotect]

61. War by Monsanto/Food by Monsanto -- Agent Orange

Yes -- and WATER, of course . . .

[Time for change]

69. That's unconsciounable -- making this out to be a game

With billions of lives at stake

Not that I'm surprised though.

You're right -- finding alternative energy sources could go a long way towards both saving our environment and keeping us out of war.

I think what's even more important is changing the way we think about things as a nation. This administration has encouraged nothing but contempt for international law -- American exceptionalism at its worst. This constant us vs. them attitude will be the end of our planet if we keep it up much longer.

[AntiFascist]

89. I fear that the problem itself may be more international in scope...

and possibly darker than "American exceptionalism at its worst". I just watched The Zeitgeist Movie recommended in Post 51. If you can get past the religious conspiracy theory part (which in and of itself presents some fascinating arguments I've never seen before) it sums things up quite nicely at the end with the well-supported conclusion that basically the world is run by international bankers.

There is some discussion in this and other threads about some of the darker deeds being performed by fascist and Nazi sympathizers in the name of "anti-communism". Ultimtately, their actions work to keep power and money concentrated in the hands of the few. I see the recent neocon militarization efforts as really a last ditch attempt out of desparation to grab the final remaining fossil energy resources on the planet. Really, I am quite optimistic that if we decentralize the sources of energy in the world it will ultimately work to free us from centralized control by energy enriched creditors who ultimately only want us for our interest payments.

[glitch]

124. That's where I find my optimism too: decentralize the sources of energy nt

[puebloknot]

81. Thanks for a little flame of hope! Perhaps the Wizard's curtain...

... will catch fire and the machinery of fear will be exposed.

[mogster]

25. Good post!

Did I click Rec twice? Yes, I did, just to be sure ;-) Thanks!

[AndyTiedye]

31. Congress Has to Give Him Everything He Asks For, Or Else...

[Lifelong Protester]

39. You just chilled me to the bone with that photo reminder

of the tragic death, at whose hands we may never know, of my hero Paul Wellstone.

[TankLV]

75. And his repuke "heir"...god has that idiot wrought a lot of damage...

Norm Coleman, wasn't it?

He's sure on the news a lot - right since his "freshman" days...

[Lifelong Protester]

76. Yep, an opportunistic creep who makes my skin crawl

every time I see his smug mug. Glad he turned republican; we don't need him.

[Kip Humphrey]

33. FOR THE RECORD: I will NEVER commit suicide... And I have NO family history of pancreatic cancer

you know, that rare aggressive form that took down Andy in spite of no family history either (just thought someone needed to mention Andy in this thread).

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. I think Orwell called it 'vaporising'

I think the 'disappearances' have happened all over the world. I think the USSR was pretty good at it.

[OwnedByFerrets]

102. "IS" pretty good at it........they havent stopped......

only NOW they dont even bother to hide it.

[diane in sf]

36. One of our options for slow revolution is every bit of decentralizing technology we have.

Bill Clinton helped this forward by supporting investment into computer and related technologies, which helped give us today's internet and netcasting tools. Solar and wind power at the household level will help. Cars that you can charge at home with the energy you generate will radically reduce the amount of oil we need and the influence of this industry and their hired guns, the Pentagon. Growing your own food will help or buying organic from local level co-ops. Municipal ownership of energy, cable tv and all forms of local economy will help. Restarting our politics from the local level up will help.

If we have any great ecological disasters, wars, climate problems etc. we're headed this way anyway. So it's better to get started now in any way possible.

[Time for change]

109. Yes, definitely

There's a lot more of us than there are of them. Centralized ownership of everything they can get their grubby hands on is what keeps them in power.

[Kurovski]

37. .

[eridani]

38. Even the worst of Democrats--

--can be counted on to occasionally throw sand in the gears of imperial domination. That's all we can hope for, I think.

War and prisons have become iron rice bowls for too many US citizens, and they will not be easily convinced that breaking those rice bowls will be better for them in the long run.

[BeHereNow]

40. Please watch this considering everything you have read on this thread. K&R

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo&mode=related&search=

It is huge, and yes it has been going on for decades.
What we are witnessing is the culmination of years
of agenda to amass the largest consolidation of
power in the history of the world.


Incredible post Time for Change.
BHN:thumbsup:

[SQinAZ]

77. Now that was disturbing...

The video BeHereNow posted a link to, as well as the initial blog entry, were both disturbing.

I feel helpless. I feel inadequate to do anything to stop this insanity, as it has been going on for so long, and is so far-reaching.

I don't want to be ruled by a world government. It is bad enough being ruled by the heads of our country, since they don't give a crap about "we, the people" anymore.

*sigh*

[BeHereNow]

79. Welcome to DU, and the only comfort I can give you is: You are not alone.

Some people on DU know what is going on, others don't.
Hang with the folks that do, because we are in the process
of figuring out how to survive it.
Together we stand, divided we fall.

BHN:hug:

[Time for change]

110. Thank you for the link BHN -- I will definitely watch it when I get some time

[Time for change]

154. Very interesting array of quotes

One idea from them that I look upon favorably is that of world government. I agree that national sovereignty hasn't worked. Way too many wars.

Of course, in order for world government to act as a force for good rather than as a force for evil, it would be to have to be based on the kind of democracy and Constitutional rule of law that our Founding Fathers envisioned. How to get to that point on a world wide basis will be a tremendous challenge, and something I very much doubt I'll ever see in my lifetime -- or my grandchildren's lifetime. But I think the planet is doomed without it.

[BeHereNow]

41. Trilateral Commission and how they figure into global dominance-

Some disrupters among us have attempted to use the ever-so-boring
tactic of calling the Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Affairs
"conspiracy theories." Either those disruptors are completely ignorant
or they are paid to attempt to bring doubt to your mind about the existence
of the global power elite.
What we are witnessing today is the result of decades of work by
a few hundred people who never once tried to hide their work;
they simply made sure you never knew about it.
BHN

Excerpt:
"The most important thing of all is to remember that the political coup de grace preceded the economic coup de grace. The domination of the Executive Branch of the U.S. government provided all the necessary political leverage needed to skew U.S. and global economic policies to their own benefit.

By 1977, the Trilateral Commission had notably become expert at using crises (and creating them in some instances) to manage countries toward the New World Order; yet, they found menacing backlashes from those very crises.

In the end, the biggest crisis of all was that of the American way of life. Americans never counted on such powerful and influential groups working against the Constitution and freedom, either inadvertently or purposefully, and even now, the principles that helped to build this great country are all but reduced to the sound of meaningless babblings."

And:
"It is important to note that Trilateral domination has transcended political parties:
they dominated both the Republican and Democrat parties with equal aplomb."

The issue is not Dem or Repub, it is a global domination by a very small group
of elite.
http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/the_trilateral_commission%3a_usurping_sovereignty_2007080373/
BHN

[glitch]

42. Congress has learned to take Bush-Cheney threats very seriously. K & R nt

[flyarm]

43. or have been blackmailed seriously!! eom

[glitch]

44. Whatever works - we all know from bushcult past actions nothing is beneath them.

Absolutely Nothing.

[flyarm]

47. yes indeed...and don't forget ..

MKULTRA!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. Threads like th is make me wish we could schedule an immediate conference call or something.

As I read through the responses, I either learned some new fact, shared a similar circumstance or perspective, or was exposed to a fascinating idea.

THERE IS SO MUCH POTENTIAL FOR IMPACTFUL IDEAS AND SOLUTIONS ON THIS BOARD!!!

But, there is a missing link for making those ideas and solutions a reality: imminent connection and planning.

That is why I wish we could arrange immediate conferencing when posts like these lead to the best of what we, 'the people', have to offer.

But, I guess the anonimity thing is too important. Is that because we are,...so afraid?

That couldn't be since we all advocate against the rule of fear,...right?

OR,...are we just as ruled by fear,...as those we tend to condemn?

Yikes.

[Time for change]

67. I'm not all that concerned about anonimity

I'm pretty sure that I'm not important enough that I risk ending up like Lemme or any of the others I talk about in my OP.

If you have some planning ideas I'd like to hear them, either on this thread or by pm. I have to admit that I have little or no skill at political planning, but still I'd like to do whatever I can for the cause.

[MasonJar]

48. Archives presented last week on DU exposed the Bushes and other

rich families as Nazis in the 30s, who had every intention of overthrowing FDR.

[BeHereNow]

56. Wow, Masonjar! Haven't seen you here in ages.

Nice to see you friend.
BHN:pals:

[cascadiance]

49. Add Pat Tillman to the assasination list? I guess *perhaps* we'll find out in coming days?...

And perhaps Margie Schoedinger too, though that's arguably a bit more unsubstantiated.

Raymond Camillo Lemme for supposedly committing suicide after shortly before talking to Clint Curtis about potential incriminating election fraud issues.

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/?q=node/624

[Time for change]

111. Yep, those would be good additions

The 9/11 attacks would also be a good addition, as another poster mentioned.

I did inlclude Raymond Lemme in my OP.

Margie Schoedinger's "suicide" may be unsubstantiated, but it sure is suspicious IMO when added to everything else.

[SarahB]

50. Excellent post.

I'm hardly your typical "conspiracy nut". I'm a married, suburban mom and nurse in Connecticut for crying out load, but I read and have eyes and a brain. Our country was fucked long before I was even born. Profiteering upon the deaths of millions as policy isn't hard to figure out.

[Raksha]

68. Yes, you read and you have eyes and a brain...so do the rest of us.

That is the biggest strength of this scenario, as I said in post #65. It's easy to understand for anyone with eyes and a brain. Difficult to accept, but easy to understand.

[Joanne98]

51. New movie Mike Malloy is recommending! It's awesome.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

1 hour and 56 minutes. NO BORING PARTS!

[Time for change]

112. Thanks for the link

I'll have to take a look at that later.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. Only a spoiled child will walk away pouting when faced with a choice...

between "really horrible, evil and malevolent" or "mostly good".

"Mostly good?! Forget it! I'm going to sit in the corner until the Santa Claus himself, astride the easter bunny delivers exactly what I want."

If you want to undo the governments ability to wiretap you, you need to elect democrats. If nothing else, when you vote "D" you have a 70% chance of voting for someone who supports civil liberties.

K&R

[moodforaday]

62. I call bullsh*t

No recommend, sorry. This post is a typical con-man job, where "con" stands for "confidence", note well. You're all on the side of goodness, stirring up our righteous anger, telling what many here believe IS the truth - and your conclusion is, what? Keep supporting those cowards who have signed on the dotted line? Fight the architects of evil by supporting the evil's obedient henchmen?

Oh I am so worried about John Conyers... NOT! It's barely been two weeks since he got Ray McGovern and the whole anti-war group ARRESTED for entering his congressional office! And you want people to support him, because maybe he fears being suicided if he so much as looks the wrong way at Cheney? I don't suppose he was made to run fo office at gunpoint, was he? "Oh but he means well!" You don't know what he means. Look at what he does, what he stands for, what he is prepared to allow to happen.

Please everyone, start supporting people who have NOT signed on the dotted line! There is no other way.

(And as for Clinton, that's so much bullsh*t, too. He's Papa Bush's best buddy now - maybe not a hold-my-hand type of buddy, that's reserved for Prince Bandar, but getting there close.)

ed: typo

[Time for change]

63. You're reading stuff into my post that I'm not saying

I'm not saying whom we should support or even suggesting whom we should support.

I'm just saying that I think there might be a lot going on that we're not aware of. I'm saying that it's very difficult for me to sort this all out. I'm planning on voting for Kucinich for President, as I've said before, because he seems to me more than the other candidates to be sticking up for what he believes in.

[Dr.Phool]

64. He certainly is.

I had the opportunity to spend a Saturday afternoon with him and Elizabeth a couple of weeks ago. What you see is what you get. I'm sending him money. Even if he don't have a chance to win, I want him to stay in the race.

I also got to spend 20-30 minutes with each of the other candidates. I still like Dennis. Now, if I wanted to go out and have a beer with somebody, it would be Joe Biden. As a politician, he sucks, but a very friendly likable guy. Very full of shit, but likable.

[Time for change]

66. Here's what I wrote about why I'm voting for him a few months ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x988702

[Senator]

86. Sorry, but he really isn't

I can see how it might have not been your intention to do so, but you can't front load a post with that amount of dark, cynical semi-history, conclude with a "current event" section that is not only a complete non sequitur*, but merely based on someone's "somewhat cryptic" post, and then expect people to conclude that you're "just saying that I think there might be" and that your purpose is "to sort this all out."

Your thread title is declarative.

You are (at least) implying that there are powerful forces -- known about by someone we trust -- micromanaging all aspects of our poliical life and for that reason a debilitated "leadership" should be unsurprising, let alone cause for outrage and active challenge. Because we might be risking their lives by trying to force their hands.

Intended or not, that is the gist of your post - given its shared context with the "cryptic" one. A "cautionary tale" on steroids.

---
* I'd rather avoid going into detail on why your last section is a non sequitur. Mainly because it really wouldn't be productive. But also because I think we lack a proper quorum. Perhaps it will suffice to say that "cryptic" is often just a very kind description of "baloney."

==

[Time for change]

96. Sorry, you're wrong

As you well know, I've posted almost 20 OPs strongly advocating impeachment -- and most of them can still be found in my journal. I have never stopped advocating that, and nothing I say here changes it.

I definitely do not advocate NOT trying to force their hands. If that's what some people got out of my OP, I'm sorry about that.

[Senator]

162. But, not about that...

...as I've said nothing about what you are or are not "advocating." Which is why a specifically separated your intent from the resulting effect of the post's actual content.

In fact, I'm quite aware of your strong support for impeachment. Which is why I was a bit concerned about the "gist" of the OP. Had you reiterated your advocacy for impeachment in the post it could have prevented "some people" from getting the "wrong" message.

But if, as you say in the post I responded to, that you were not really advocating any specific action. What do you think all the comments and recs are for?

--

[Time for change]

165. I don't believe that the positive reaction to this post was in any way related to a feeling that we

should accept our current situation or find it acceptable for our representatives in Congress to accept our current situation. I think it's fair to say that the good majority of people responding to this post are themselves strong advocates for impeachment, and I see no evidence that they changed their mind about this as a result of this post.

Many people have tried to explain the 9-11 attacks (those who don't believe in MIHOP, as I do) by talking about the role that our country's policies played in eliciting those attacks. For doing this they have been unfairly accused by the right of defending those attacks. There is a big difference between trying to explain something and defending it.

In my OP I was searching for explanations, not trying to defend anything. I think that we should consider the possibility that our elected representatives may be facing serious difficulties that we are not aware of. We can consider that possibility while at the same time advocating that they be more aggressive in pursuing policies that we believe are crucially important.

I am not a judgemental person. I have never called a Democrat a coward, though I have often expressed bewilderment, concern and disagreement over their passivity in the face of what I consider to be a dire crisis.

I admit that I feel ambivalence about this whole thing. I don't understand what's happening and I'm trying to understand it better.

I have advocated impeachment in a great many of my posts, including many that weren't primarily about impeachment. But I don't find it necessary to do that in all of my posts. I guess that in this one I thought that it would be off topic. Here's a letter that I wrote just this past Friday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1506121

[Raksha]

65. The truth can set us free, and maybe a lot faster than Will Pitt imagined.

I read his essay last night right after he posted it. Your commentary expands on it and provides more detail, but both essays have one very important thing going for them: THEY ARE EASY TO UNDERSTAND. Difficult to accept, of course, but easy to understand.

The reason your outline of the inner workings of the American empire is so easy to understand is because it's TRUE. You don't need to be a political junkie or Internet addict to see the big picture, if the big picture is presented in a logical fashion the way you've done it here. You can even be wrong on some of the specifics, like the Kennedy assassination or Paul Wellstone's death, but the overall picture you have presented is still true. You could even call this the "unified field theory of contemporary American politics."

My daughter recommended that I read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, and she's not the first to recommend it by a long way. I still haven't read it, but I'm sure I'll find it builds an even more convincing case for what you've said here.

My point is that it doesn't take any special knowledge or expertise to understand what you've said here. I would like to see this essay read out loud in its entirety at the Democratic National Convention, when the whole country is watching. Just lay it all on the line for the American people and let them decide what to do about it. They may have all the money and all the power, but there are a hell of a lot more of US than there are of THEM!

Oh yeah...K & R!!!

[Time for change]

114. I'll read it if they'll invite me

;)

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man was excellent, and I highly recommend reading it first. But Perkins' next book, The Secret History of the American Empire, which I haven't finished yet, appears to be even better. It's sort of a continuation of Confessions of an EHM.

[Raksha]

146. Sounds like those books are required reading

for anyone who wants to understand what's really going on in the world. I'll order them ASAP.

[Madspirit]

70. k&r...n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

72. K & R - thanks, TfC. Very, very scary. What can be done when they

own everything, including all three branches of government and law-enforcement agencies?

[personman]

88. Not to mention BOTH political parties...

JOHN PERKINS: Well, you know, Amy, this empire that we’ve created really has an emperor, and it’s not the president of this country. The President serves, you know, for a short period of time. But it doesn't really matter whether we have a Democrat or a Republican in the White House or running Congress; the empire goes on, because it’s really run by what I call the corporatocracy, which is a group of men who run our biggest corporations. This isn’t a conspiracy theory. They don’t need to conspire. They all know what serves their best interest. But they really are the equivalent of the emperor, because they do not serve at the wish of the people, they’re not democratically elected, they don’t serve any limited term. They essentially answer to no one, except their own boards, and most corporate CEOs actually run their boards, rather than the other way around. And they are the power behind this.

He's saying what Chomsky has been saying at least as long as I've been alive.

[Time for change]

116. Yes, it is scary, but

As a number of people on this thread have said, there are a whole lot more of us than there are of them. Numbers can overwhelm, especialy when united, informed and determined. We aren't there yet, but we can get there.

[Nothing Without Hope]

139. I agree. We have not only the numbers, but we CAN get the truth out -

we have to keep pushing and we have to keep hammering Congress and the press. And we have to replace the misguided or corrupt Democratic Congress members who consistently enable the current regime. Most of them aren't even opposed in their districts yet:

Here are the Democrats who voted to extend Bush's illegal wiretapping powers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1519118

They all need to hear from us, need to have the full import of what they are doing to the Constitution exposed. And if they don't listen (and I don't think they will), they need to be replaced.

Conversely, the representatives who bravely oppose the Administration's agenda ALSO need to hear from us. You can bet they are getting blasted by Bushbots - they need our support and encouragement to know they are not standing alone.

[slipslidingaway]

73. Great post, thank you for putting this together! n/t

[zoya]

74. Idealists beware

Yes, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus --- and you have made a good argument against Gore or any other idealist running in 2008. I don't think he could find a bodyguard anywhere on earth that could protect him from assassination.

[Time for change]

97. I hate to say it but

The kind of leader we need is the kind who recognizes the risks but who will serve and lead anyhow.

The enemies we face are very powerful but they aren't all powerful, especially when they go against the interests of billions of people. Castro is a good example of the fact that they're not always successful.

Welcom to DU zoya :toast:

[calteacherguy]

78. There is indeed a lot of dark matter in the universe. nt

[puebloknot]

80. Raising a glass to your scholarship and to your courage!

I remember tempering my own anger and disappointment at Al Gore, when he seemed to so easily give up the fight in 2000, because I had a feeling that he was simply not willing to take himself and his family down the "Wellstone path." And thanks for unapologetically bringing up the suspicious nature of the Wellstone tragedy.

I am one of the people on this forum who has been beating the drum for impeachment, who keeps feeling outrage at the failure of the Dems to do their jobs. I have even said that our elected congresspersons took an oath of office to defend the Constitution, just as my father did before landing at Normandy, and that they should defend the nation, even at peril of their own lives. But it's easy to sit behind a computer screen and fire such volleys, without putting myself or my family in harm's way. And to what end would the destruction of some of our best people lead us?

Still, I believe we must hold our representatives in Congress accountable, to the degree that we can. Given the scenario you've outlined in this article, it's very hard to maintain hope, not to simply succumb to despair. I saw a Book TV presentation by John Perkins for his new book a couple of weeks ago. I even began to feel suspicion of *his* agenda because I wondered how he could be a whistleblower and stay alive. I suppose that old thing about spreading the information as far and wide as possible being the best protection might be at play in his situation.

In spite of his sometimes impatience with we less-evolved beings :) I share your hope that Will Pitt will return. I don't always agree with his articles, but he serves to stir up thought on this forum -- even if he sees too much rancor and too little intellectual discussion for his taste. It seems he may be suffering from battle fatigue right now, and he has certainly been at the barricades for as long as I've been reading his material. I think he is trying to find a place to put his energy for the saving of the country, as we all are.

I think that most of us are just feeling that we've marched right up against a brick wall, and can't find an outlet for our political/social passion. I have found myself harking back to scenarios from our revolutonary history which led to our founding. There were battles, but it was not a bloody revolution, such as in Russia or France. Revolution, even peaceful revolution, seems impossible now because we have a military equipped, I fear to a great degree, with religious fanaticism and weaponry that boggles the mind in terms of crowd control and a complete takeover. Speculation that the military might revolt, if ordered to turn on fellow citizens, is the stuff of fantasy, I think.

I'm reminded of a scene from Solzhenytsen's "Cancer Ward," where there was daily discussion (I'm recaling this from memory, and it's been a long time since I read it) about some herb from the forest, some as-yet-discovered cure for the malady everyone in the ward was suffering from. In some ways, I feel we've come to such a pass with our political cancer. What can we do??? Nothing we've ever done seems to be working. What new strategy will help? Are we just going to die as a country?

I fear that Will Pitt is right, that we will not see our idealized country in our lifetimes -- his or mine, and I'm the generation older than his -- and I also must add that as I've grown older and have explored beyond my early conditioning in our schools in America, I've come to see that America the Beautiful never was all that we've been carefully taught to think it is. Waking up is terribly hard to do.

I, like you, am going to support Dennis Kucinich because he is the man I feel is least likely to have "signed on the dotted line," and his platform has always been a humane and visionary one. If we are going to live under the tyranny of a Democratic/Republican marriage, I at least want to feel that I dropped my small stone in a huge body of water, and that some small ripple effect will serve someone's life in the future.

[Time for change]

117. I pretty much agree with all you've said here, except for one important thing

I don't think that military revolt is a fantasy. It's happened many times in the past, and it can happen again. Bush in very unpopular, and he is getting more unpopular. He is despised by many.

And thanks for the compliment, but it didn't take much courage to write this. Just a lot of intense thought :)

[puebloknot]

142. That's a hopeful thought about the military. I just have to wonder...

... to what extent the right-wing fundies have infiltrated the military.

Hope springs, though!

[Karenina]

148. The fundies OWN the Air Force

and bombing is the only means left to perpetrate this "global takeover."
The grunts will be recycled until they're killed off saving billions in costs for care. The Air Force is "Christian Reconstructionist." Google it if you've never heard the term. They are a danger to us all.

[puebloknot]

149. Yes. I'm in Santa Fe, and I'm always reading about the goings-on...

... in Colorado Springs with the Air Force. I recently heard about the fact that they're taking land under eminent domain in Southern Colorado to build the largest military training facility in our history.

Too close for comfort! This is very frightening!

[Karenina]

150. Here's another link for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1517261

[puebloknot]

151. Thanks! I read it yesterday. "Christian" soldiers coming to all our towns soon. Or ...

... black helicopters flying over our roofs.

[Blue_Tires]

82. ttt----great info

[kineneb]

83. Chalmers Johnson discusses some of this in his books

and how little the US public knows about "what is done in their name"... I recommend reading the whole series.

thanks for the post... also have Gary Webb's book; I think he got too close to the truth...

[EnricoFermi]

85. It is true,

that Gary Webb shot himself twice in committing suicide, right?

In addition, I think we must always remember the October 19th 2001 anthrax letters, strategically sent to the two Democrats standing in the way of the Patriot Act. That has always been mysterious.

[Time for change]

119. Yes indeed

So many mysteries, so little time to delve into all of them.

[seemslikeadream]

92. “Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic.”

War and Globalization
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3117338213439292490&q=Hijacking+Catastrophe&total=29&start=20&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7


Hijacking Catastrophe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SltOy_F6ZII&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YlcpXBFOXA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZaWh0cJPQ&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8S_vOZqJbE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GT7ti8LZ6A&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkOtqGNJ8qI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C02QHS0D44&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YlcpXBFOXA&mode=related&search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kBX00TR-aA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jghh00bn_DA&mode=related&search=


“Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic.”


She's present in our country right now, just waiting to make her - to carry out her divine mission



http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/27/1454229

CHALMERS JOHNSON: Nemesis was the ancient Greek goddess of revenge, the punisher of hubris and arrogance in human beings. You may recall she is the one that led Narcissus to the pond and showed him his reflection, and he dove in and drowned. I chose the title, because it seems to me that she's present in our country right now, just waiting to make her -- to carry out her divine mission.

By the subtitle, I really do mean it. This is not just hype to sell books -- “The Last Days of the American Republic.” I’m here concerned with a very real, concrete problem in political analysis, namely that the political system of the United States today, history tells us, is one of the most unstable combinations there is -- that is, domestic democracy and foreign empire -- that the choices are stark. A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist, but it can't be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our system was modeled, like the old Roman Republic, it will lose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship.

I’ve spent some time in the book talking about an alternative, namely that of the British Empire after World War II, in which it made the decision, not perfectly executed by any manner of means, but nonetheless made the decision to give up its empire in order to keep its democracy. It became apparent to the British quite late in the game that they could keep the jewel in their crown, India, only at the expense of administrative massacres, of which they had carried them out often in India. In the wake of the war against Nazism, which had just ended, it became, I think, obvious to the British that in order to retain their empire, they would have to become a tyranny, and they, therefore, I believe, properly chose, admirably chose to give up their empire.

As I say, they didn't do it perfectly. There were tremendous atavistic fallbacks in the 1950s in the Anglo, French, Israeli attack on Egypt; in the repression of the Kikuyu -- savage repression, really -- in Kenya; and then, of course, the most obvious and weird atavism of them all, Tony Blair and his enthusiasm for renewed British imperialism in Iraq. But nonetheless, it seems to me that the history of Britain is clear that it gave up its empire in order to remain a democracy. I believe this is something we should be discussing very hard in the United States.

[Time for change]

118. I've read his second and third books

They were both excellent and very enlightening. I talk about his triology in this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1047116

[Norrin Radd]

87. The Sword of Damocles

comes with the prestige -- it always has -- but they chose to seek and obtain the roles of leaders (though I'd prefer "representatives" to "leaders"). However, the "Sword" isn't invincible; if it were, then there would be no reason for us to go on pretending we have a democratic and open society.

[Time for change]

122. "The sword isn't invincible"

Very true. There are a whole lot more of us than there are of them, so we make up in numbers what they have in weaponry.

I do believe that we do NOT have a democratic and open society now -- but we do have it within our power to re-establish one.

[Norrin Radd]

161. I think that society exists in our collective consciousness,

well, "ours," at least. And I agree that we can re-establish it in the material.

[Ian_rd]

91. K&R for John Perkins

If you truly want to understand how the world works. Why we fight wars, why there's famine and poverty - it's all about the global system of economics. Greg Palast and Naomi Klein are two of the extremely few journalists who really "get it." But with John Perkins, you get an inside account of how it all works.

[Time for change]

123. Yes, that's what's so refreshing and enlightening about his book

I feel that my knowledge of how the world works took a quantum leap when I read his book.

[bigtree]

98. this is a stellar post

I'm not completely buying into any theory which can't be supported by facts, but the premise that there are forces who temper these elected officials' zeal and ambition with threats or enticements rings true.

nicely organized and remarkably lucid underneath all of the tinfoil.

[Time for change]

129. Thank you -- I feel much like you do about it

Except for those evil actions that have been officially confirmed (which are a great many), I don't have 100% confidence that any of the individual events that I discuss here were conspiracies, except for the JFK assassination (Well, maybe 99.5% confidence). But there is definitely a huge and ominous pattern here that should make us all very worried.

[OwnedByFerrets]

99. There is no reason this shouldnt get 1000 Recs.......nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

101. If this is true...........

and I have no reason to think its not, Then one must understand Al Gores reluctance to run for president again. Could "you" have the cahones to face this without fear for yourself or your family? I am not that brave.

"I walked into El Presidente’s office two days after he was elected and congratulated him… I said “Mr. President, in here I got a couple hundred million dollars for you and your family, if you play the game – you know, be kind to my friends who run the oil companies, treat your Uncle Sam good.” Then I stepped closer, reached my right hand into the other pocket, bent down next to his face, and whispered, “In here I got a gun and a bullet with your name on it – in case you decide to keep your campaign promises.” I stepped back, sat down, and recited a little list for him, of presidents who were assassinated or overthrown because they defied their Uncle Sam: from Diem to Torrijos – you know the routine. He got the message. – John Perkins, quoting an anonymous source in his new book, “The Secret History of the American Empire – Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption”.ot,

[KoKo]

104. And...the stuff about his son ...

driving a hundred miles an hour in a Prius with hundreds of pills and pot...yet they checked him out and found no evidence he was "driving under the influence."

How do we know what that was about? He supposedly had problems before....but how would we know if he's trouble...or if he was marked. All those pills ....how do we know he hasn't been followed and stuff wasn't planted. Maybe because of his past record he's an easy target.

Not saying he's not a troubled kid...but if this was his third offense given the Bush Reach wouldn't he have been thrown in jail for third offense? Who would claim the evidence was planted if you knew it was because it would make the whole situation worse. But, let the kid off as a warning whether it was true or not? Would the Gore family want to push it...or just let it go? Better to let it go with a Community Service sentence.

Remember Dean's son arrested when he was running just as he got his momemtum over a prank of stealing beer froma a Country Club? Much coincidence ....although no one's saying that kids of famous people don't often have personal problems....look at the Bush Twins.

Still...

[Virginia Dare]

103. I certainly accept the idea that our government leaders..

keep many secrets from us, both parties, for varying reasons. This is a great post.

[The_Commonist]

105. And yet, the solution is so simple...

...so simple that nobody seems to even really consider it! There is something that each of us can do to stop this madness. Yet, every time this solution is mentioned, people scoff at it. Either you want to stop the madness, or you don't.

The behavior of economic hitmen does not happen in a vacuum. There is a reason that corporate interests want the leaders of nations to "play ball with Uncle Sam." A reason that has to do with YOU AND ME and him and her and everyone we know.

In Iran it was oil, in Guatemala it was bananas, in Chile it was copper, in Vietnam it was rubber, in the Congo it was diamonds, in Indonesia it was a cheap workforce...

There would be no reason for these economic hitmen to ply their trade if there was no market for the goods they represent. Corporate interests and the families that control most of the wealth on the planet go into a country, take control of its natural resources, take those resources and manufacture stuff from them and then sell that stuff to YOU AND ME and him and her and everyone we know. That's the part of the chain the WE have some control over. And yet, nobody seems to want to do anything about the part of the chain that we have control over. It's really quite bothersome.

"WalMart is the closest store to my house and I have to drive an hour away to shop somewhere else."

I don't know how many times I've read statements like that RIGHT HERE on Democratic Underground. I'm not suggesting that simply not shopping at WalMart will fix everything. I'm suggesting that there are good guys and there are bad guys, and even though a lot of people know who the bads guys are, they keep giving them their money out of convenience. Or ignorance.

If each of us made an effort to be conscious of what we buy and who we buy it from, we could change the world, pretty quickly and pretty radically. The consumer really has more control over the system than we are led to believe. All the focus is on the political, and the corporate parts of the chain. The owners of society throw a lot of distractions in our faces, and it all serves to keep us from understanding how much power we really have. And yet... there it is! A true consumer (r)evolution would make all the bitching we do about government and corporate shenanigans IRRELEVANT!

Making them irrelevant would be so much better that bitching about them. But maybe it's not as much fun...

[Time for change]

130. I'm pretty sure you're on the right track, but I don't believe the solution is simple

There is a lot of apathy, ignorance, greed, and even evil out there. Overcoming all that is a monumental task IMO.

[BlueEyedSon]

134. The same powerful forces are at work here making us all "obey and consume."

How will we get mass transit built (the alternative to personal autos) if there is a figurative "gun to the heads" of our own decisionmakers?

etc. etc....

[AntiFascist]

145. I strongly agree with this post...

The power of the boycott is the MOST powerful, underutilized, tool we have at our disposal. It may not affect those at the very top of the power chain too much, but it will certainly work to bring around certain links in the chain.

[B3Nut]

106. Mark Knopfler got it regarding this...

Don't Crash The Ambulance (off Shangri-La, a really great record)

--
Don’t often open up this floor
Since I handed in my gun
What all these keys are for
Now my tour of duty’s done
You got to know the switches
Now you got your turn
Watch and learn, junior
Watch and learn

Now you will get your
Trouble spots
Here’s one from
Down voodoo way
Bragged he had me
By the you-know-whats
Very funny, you don’t say
The big enchilada
Stealing elections
Had to go down there
Trash collection
Got his cojones
On my desk in there
Made into a souvenir
Set of cufflinks, nice pair
The rest of him’s
Someplace up here
Sometimes you got to
Put a shoulder to the door
Not so fast, junior
Listen to your pa
Here, son
I’m handing over to you
Don’t crash the ambulance
Whatever you do

What we have here’s
A dung hole place
Thought it was fly shit
On the map
Fat bastard, ugly face
And the personal crap
You can’t move the barriers
You can’t mess with oil and gas
Had to go down there
Stick a couple
Aircraft carriers
In his ass
Fancy dress
Medals chest
It’s all in here
For all the gigs
Gas mask
Bullet-proof vest
All the usual rigs
There’ll be things they missed
They didn’t mention
You’ve even
Got a whistle in there
For attracting attention

Well, I think you’re gonna
Be okay, son
You’ve had the tour, I guess
These two buttons
By the way
This one I hope
You never press
Some holy fool, just watch
Who’s not like you or me
That one’s the whole
Shooting match
Right there
It’s the whole shitaree
We don’t forget
Who put us here, jack
That’s page one
We talk soft
But carry a big stick
And pack the biggest gun
We don’t like accidents
Major or minor
You don’t want yourself
An incident
Don’t ever invade China

Here, son
I’m handing over to you
Don’t crash the ambulance
Here, son
I’m handing over to you
Don’t crash the ambulance
Whatever you do
--

Genius, that guy.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[BlueEyedSon]

133. So did Frank Zappa

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

[B3Nut]

166. Ayup.

FZ was a genius, one of my favorite artists. Too bad he couldn't have lived to see this current bunch...he'd doubtless have loads to say on the subject.

I miss Frank.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[flashl]

107. Is it too simple to just say 'People of the Lie'?

Years ago, I read 'People of the Lie' by M. Scott Peck. Ocassionaly, I consult that book when trying to understand motives and the world around me. Here is an excerpt from a review of the book:

Evil is the exercise of power, the imposing of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion". "The core of evil is ego-centricity, whereby others are sacrificed rather than the ego of the individual." These words and the following analysis that Scott Peck gives us into the world of evil are sorely needed now in America. At the heart of our political and moral meltdown is the force of evil. According to Dr. Peck (psychology) ego-centric persons are utterly dedicated to preserving their self-serving image. They cultivate an image of being a good, right, God-fearing citizens. They specialize in self-deceit and thus are People of the Lie.

He also offers:

The four stages of community formation are somewhat related to a model in organization theory for the five stages that a team goes through during development. These five stages are:

• Forming where the team members have some initial discomfort with each other but nothing comes out in the open. They are insecure about their role and position with respect to the team. This corresponds to the initial stage of pseudocommunity.
  
• Storming where the team members start arguing heatedly and differences and insecurities come out in the open. This corresponds to the second stage given by Scott Peck, namely chaos.
  
• Norming where the team members lay out rules and guidelines for interaction that help define the roles and responsibilities of each person. This corresponds to emptiness, where the community members think within and empty themselves of their obsessions to be able to accept and listen to others.
  
• Performing where the team finally starts working as a cohesive whole, and effectively achieve the tasks setof themselves. In this stage individuals are aided by the group as a whole where necessary, in order to move further collectively than they could achieve as a group of separated individuals.
  
• Transforming This corresponds to the stage of true community. This represents the stage of celebration, and when individuals leave, as they must, there is a genuine feeling of grief, and a desire to meet again. Traditionally this stage was often called "Mourning".

[glitch]

127. Excellent post flashl, welcome to DU! nt

[flashl]

157. Thanks. n/t

[Time for change]

131. I read that book several years ago -- To me it was one of the most interesting books I've ever read

But wasn't the stages of community development from another one of his books -- The Different Drum, or something like that?

[flashl]

156. I believe you are right

[Nothing Without Hope]

108. ANOTHER probable assassination: ATHAN GIBBS - got in the way of US election fraud:

Here's a piece by Fitrakis on it:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031904Fitrakis/031904fitrakis.html

His Tru-Vote voting machine was carefully designed to be safe from fraud and was attracting a lot of favorable attention. With him dead, much more...ah...amenable electronic voting machine designs like those of Diebold and others did not have this significant competition and Gibbs' very convincing voice about their vulnerability to fraud was silenced.

[Time for change]

132. I hadn't heard of that one

I'll have to study up on that, thank you.

[Nothing Without Hope]

138. Athan Gibbs died at a most "opportune" time (for election fraud), driving on an isolated

stretch of highway. Conditions of the "accident" sounded suspicious to many, and the timing was also highly suspicious. Here's a dump of my old file folder related to Athan Gibbs, including the one I posted above. It's miscellaneous and incomplete, but perhaps it will help a bit if you want to find out more about it.

http://www.commonground.ca/iss/0410159/cg159_USvote.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x355044
http://www.tnimc.org/feature/display/4960/index.php
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=355079
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=355044&mesg_id=355117
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031904Fitrakis/031904fitrakis.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4253549

I am also one of those who believe that the relentless, vicious, and ultimately deadly hounding of Andy Stephenson was more than some kind of demented personal vendetta. He threatened the functioning and continued secrecy of the election fraud machine.

[BeHereNow]

144. GREAT compilation NWH!

No doubt that Athan Gibb's "accident" was suspicious, and perhaps
even a warning to others who threaten the "agenda."
BHN

[Time for change]

152. Wow, thanks!

[wiggs]

120. Most of us live in an illusory America that doesn't really exist. nt

[rhiannon55]

125. Thanks for this post.

It's scary as hell, but we need to know this stuff.

[Cleita]

126. Great post!

As I have said before and specifically in Will Pitt's post, there is a third, covert party operating in our country. They are operating on both sides of the aisle as Democrats and Republicans but are not loyal to either party but to their own hidden agenda. They only make empty campaign promises to get elected depending on whether they are running in predominantly red or blue districts, and their actions in office prove to be quite different from their promises.

Also, one can spot, in the campaign speeches of these candidates, the very lack of details to their promises to implement them once elected. One can also look at whom they receive contributions from to get a follow the dots idea of whom they are really representing and it isn't their constituency. When a Paul Wellstone comes along, they have to elminate them because it upsets the balance of the power grab.

Nothing willl change unless we flush this underground party out into the open and expose their past murderous deeds. We could start with the presidential candidates right now and really look at what they stand for. What are the specific details of how they intend to solve those problems they have addressed? Whom is funding them? We need to look at their past records regardless of how they say they have changed? Remember George Bush promised some very liberal seeming reforms when he ran for President, while his record as Governor proved otherwise. He didn't change a bit from governor to president in his actions. Whom are they in bed with?

Then those candidates who do pass our scrutiny will need maximum protection because they will be targets, if not for ridicule, like happened to Howard Dean, for assassination like happened to Paul Wellstone. My two-cents.

[Time for change]

128. Thank you -- Interesting concept -- a third, covert party

I wonder though how much this exists as a solid reality vs. a kind of abstract concept. Definitely, there are lots of Democrats (I won't mention the Republicans in this context because they're beyond hope) who put their own interests above that of their party and their nation, and in so doing cooperate with the corporatocracy in the pursuit if their goals. But does this actually constitute a third Party, who actually get together and plan these things?

The truth may be somewhere in between.

[Cleita]

136. My Senator, Dianne Feinstein, although she was brilliant

about progressive ideas in her earlier political career, especially about women's issues, seems to me to have sold out. She has enabled Bush every step of the way since he took office. Her actions speak louder than her words and IMHO she's a total tool for some outfit out there and it isn't the Democratic Party. I am personally fed up with voting for her. I hope that the voting reforms that our SOS state here in California is attempting to make, under daunting pressure from the right, will eventually get another Democratic candidate up there in her place the next time that seat comes up for votes.

Now, I hope some intrepid, independent reporter takes my lead and investigates the possibility. Since a lot of rocks are going to have to be turned up, I believe such a journalist is going to have to be from some other country where our gestapo can't reach them with threats. As far as them getting together to plan things, I do believe there is collusion. You don't need high tech to bring a lot of like minded people together. It can be done covertly with no problems.

[Old and In the Way]

137. Fantastic Post!

1st you need to recognize the problem before you can treat it. If the general public had more grounding in what is going on around them, we'd be better off. But this message is not available through your broadcast media. What they serve is distraction and entertainment.

[Larry Ogg]

141. I know how much you like long replies so here’s mine…

I read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man after seeing John Perkins on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman, maybe two or so years ago, it is an awesome book, and I feel I can be objective in saying it is based on truth. And just so happens, to the chagrin of the books critics, even as you have pointed out in so many of your OPs, there is much historical evidence, which gives Perkins testament credibility, and if humanity survives the insanity now controlling its destiny Perkins work might be required reading in schools some day.

Just because there is no investigation, or investigations are stopped by very high ranking and powerful people, or the high ranking and powerful officials just can’t remember, which is often the case. Or it’s a mater of national security or states privilege, or investigators can only glean through documents deemed official and cleared by corrupt politicians, such as it is, justice not served does not mean justice was done.

Have we the people groan accustomed too the idea of always presuming that elected officials are in a sense, of a divine breed, incapable of breaking the laws of men, or is it part of the conformity process we must except to be a patriotic citizens, even though we know there is corruption. Even after the Kennedy assassinations and cover ups, after Martin Luther King’s assassination, after Nixon’s Watergate and Fords acquittal of Nixon and the shutting down of further investigations. People who were targets of a shut down investigation became targets of the next shut down investigation and the next shut down investigation.

And after Reagan’s / Bush’s / Iran Contra and the shutting down of more investigations that mite have changed the future that is now manifest in the greatest challenge of tyranny and evil that has ever confronted our Republic and our Democracy…, and yet the masses remain oblivious and unconcerned.

Saturday I ran across Will Pitt’s article that you referred to in your OP. Although I knew Will was a well respected and a frequent author on DU with a regular following, I rarely ever read his work, why this time? I don’t know, I guess I was just trying to get an idea as to people’s feelings over the latest congressional betrayal.

Concerning his OP, to say the least I have mixed feelings. His opening title and rant seemed more of a call too lemming conformity and a proclamation of allegiance to the same. And as another DUer put it, “The timing couldn’t have been worse”. Anticipating that this would be the gist of his article I scrolled quickly through looking for key words such as a recognizable name, and I found the name Clinton, along with more ranting and a call to lemming conformity.

I am not a Clinton supporter, reasons being of which I will not go into great detail. But I know that Bill Clinton was a member of the Trilateral Commission, and as some will say, aka the New World Order.
Clinton signed into law NAFTA, which was very good for the ruling elite but a disaster for American workers and the poor in third world countries.
And Bill Clinton Gave us the Telecommunications Act, which was claimed, going to foster competition, but instead it led to historic industry consolidation, reducing the number of major media companies from around 80 in 1986, to 6 in 2005. And we all know what the corporate mass media weapon of mass deception is all about, just another part of it couldn’t happen here.

As I said I thought I knew the gist of Will’s article, then I began to read the flame fest of replies which pretty much confirmed my assumptions of which I gave my reply too.

But then something seemed amiss, as other replies were referring to parts of the OP that I had skipped over, so I had to go back and read the entire OP and I am so glad that I did, because my reply would have certainly included the well respect that Will deserves. I am sorry if I offended him.

The main part of Wills article which I so hastily skipped is something I most assuredly can relate to, his assessment of certain historical events will indeed add to my perspective. But when Will said the following I knew he wasn’t your normal type of nut, in fact what he said, sounds more along the lines of something I would say. And it’s pretty much why nobody ever listens to me.

Things are so much worse than bad right now, so absolutely rotten and twisted and lethal that it almost defies description. The enemy we face is more than evil, and is stronger than anything ever seen upon the Earth, and has no morality or conscience, and is capable of any depravity if it keeps their power intact.

I can pretty much agree with Will except I would say, the only thing more dangerous than the evil vermin who have no morality or conscience now running this country, is the power they were allowed to steel. In that I see somewhat of a paradox in supporting the Clintons and saving this country. Maybe I’m wrong but then why do we discuss such thing if not to sway opinions or even to be swayed…
The End

While loosing sleep, and working on a reply to this subject, my thoughts were on William Pitt and Time for change, both inspiring teachers, I penned the following dedication and thank you. I hope its not to off the wall.

What is it that we gather in our thoughts, numerous numbers yet to ponder, a chronology of snippets, secrete hidden truths, a perspective of light and feeling of hope to pierce the dark shameless evil, reviled by all yet seen by few.

Larry Ogg

[Time for change]

153. Thank you for your thoughts Larry

and your tribute. I generally don't related to poetry very well, but yours is very touching.

Like you, and probably a lot of people, I feel a good deal of ambivalence over the failure of Democrats to hold this administration to account for its numerous crimes -- and not just crimes, but dire threats to our nation. I think my OP reflected my ambivalence on this. Like you, I feel that the Telecommunications Act was a disaster. Why Clinton signed it is beyond my comprehension.

It did seem quite paradoxical that Will would refer to Clinton as the most radical president of the 21st Century. By all accounts he seemed to be a moderate, perhaps leaning a bit towards the left.

I think though that what Will was trying to say was that we have to consider these things in their full context. In other words, he was saying that times are SO BAD now that, though Clinton's actions appear moderate, he was really doing about as much as he could to fight for us. How correct he is in that assessment I cannot say, but I think it's well worth thinking about, and that's part of the reason I wrote this OP.

A good analogy would be Lincoln, I believe. Though we now know that Lincoln very much hated slavery, he had to appear as a moderate on the issue when he ran for president. The slave power was just too great. If he had expressed his actual views on slavery he never would have been elected -- in which case slavery might have lasted another several decades.

[Raksha]

164. Clinton was a "radical"

because he would have declared the Cold War and most of its lethal and expensive trappings obsolete, and redircted the money saved to domestic spending. The powers-that-be COULD NOT allow that to happen, because the Cold War was the source of their wealth and power. So they had to come up with a substitute...and they did.

That's what I think Will was trying to say when he referred to Clinton as a radical, because no way could NAFTA or the Telecommunications Act be considered radical or even populist--quite the opposite.

[snappyturtle]

143. Tremendous! Wish I could K&R it. MUST read! n/t

[Uncle Joe]

147. I sincerely believe Clinton's most radical act

was choosing Al Gore as his running mate. Al Gore was the radical; empowering the American People when he championed the Internet thereby threatening the corporate media's monopoly on information, his views on global warming from his best seller "Earth In The Balance" threatened the oil, coal and automotive industries. Ironically, saving life as we know it, is radical. I believe this was the primary motivation for the Clinton Witch Hunt; as a back door attempt to keep Al Gore from coming to power. Clinton in turn gave these people ammunition on a silver platter to be used against Al Gore with the Lewinsky Scandal.

As the 90s progressed and the Internet gained in power, the heads of the corporate media felt threatened by the free flow of two way information. They didn't want the primary champion of the Internet and a staunch protector of true freedom of speech in the White House, so they just transferred their frame of attack from the Clinton Witch Hunt to the slandering and trashing of Al Gore, while enabling Bush to power. Today the same corporate media have all but nominated Clinton as our nation's very first "First Gentleman".

[reprehensor]

155. Now that's a damn fine post.

Damn fine.

[Alexia Wheaton]

158. Does this mean that both parties are complicit then?

[Time for change]

160. Good question -- I wish I knew

I doubt that the whole Democratic Party is, but there may be individual members who are.

Complicity comes in all shades and degrees however. There are certainly people who are complicit in very dark deeds who make themselves believe that they are doing the right thing. Not saying that makes it any better, but it's often very hard to tell what's happening, even for those who are involved.