Thank you to every Democrat who voted no on the temp FISA changes.

[mzmolly]

To all you patriots who risked being called "terrorist enablers" thank YOU!

:toast:

[brentspeak]

1. k and r

:kick:

[mzmolly]

2. Thanks Brentspeak.

:hi:

[Ekirh]

3. Agreed

Glad to see there was some spines passed about. . .

"sighs"

[mzmolly]

4. I am reminded of the famed WILL Rogers quote.

“I belong to no organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” — Will Rogers

Thanks to those who corrected me below. :hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Get at least one thing right: Will Rogers

“I belong to no organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” — Roy Rogers

That is fucking classic.

[mzmolly]

12. .

.

[scarletwoman]

13. Um, that was WILL Rogers. I think Roy was something of a righty. (nt)

[mzmolly]

17. Oh goodness, thanks!

It was credited to Roy LOL. And, I'm dating myself but I don't recall either very well. ;)

[ashling]

15. Ah, that was WILL Rogers

as in Will Rogers and Dale Evans
:rofl:

[mzmolly]

18. LOL, thanks!

:rofl: I think I need a Guinness!

[saltpoint]

5. Recommended, and recommended strongly.

:toast: :hi: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :dem: :dem: :dem: :pals: :yourock:

[mzmolly]

11. Thank you OC!

:hi:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. I want to know who voted yes to this. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Yes We Sure Kicked Ass!

This is GREAT!

[mzmolly]

9. We've never been very good at group think. I guess that's what makes us unique.

We did limit the bill, and I'm grateful for that as well as for those who risked being blamed for the next LIHOP.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. What?

"I'm grateful for that as well as for those who risked being blamed for the next LIHOP."

Is that your explanation?

We did not limit the bill. We removed judicial oversight, the only actual limit. Our party just suffered a huge defeat and you are praising the ones who didn't defect. Get a clue.

[mzmolly]

16. Bush wanted a permanent measure, we gave him 6 months.

That is a limitation. As far as other limitations, I have to dig a bit more as I know we wanted judicial review in 120 days. Not sure what happened on that, you?

Regardless the majority of Democrats in a "post 911" climate voted against this measure, and every R voted for it to my understanding.

[babylonsister]

21. Thanks, Warren. You're right; this is really untenable. nt

[mzmolly]

24. And what about those who voted NO?

Any comment on that?

[Maven]

54. Those who voted NO did only what they SHOULD HAVE DONE. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Yes you are right, Warren

This is just an outrage.

[mzmolly]

28. Who's "WE" in Warrens quote? The majority of Democrats did not support the measure.

eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Where did I say "we"?

[mzmolly]

39. You didn't.

The party you responded to did.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Then post to that party

Good grief.

[mzmolly]

41. Sorry if my question wasn't clear: "Who's "WE" in Warrens quote?"

These ARE confusing times. ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Ask Warren

Why are you asking me???

Sheesh.

[mzmolly]

45. You agreed, and I wondered what you agreed with is all.

Peace.

[Warren Stupidity]

61. Your "we"

This "we" here:

"We did limit the bill, and I'm grateful for that as well as for those who risked being blamed for the next LIHOP."

That "we". Or did you wish to retract that "we"?

"The majority of Democrats did not support the measure."

Yes that is true. The problem with our party and our party leadership is that enough nominal democrats keep defecting to the other side to keep handing the other side one legislative victory after another. There do not appear to be any repercussions for this behavior, the leadership does not punish these defections, there is no party discipline.

Our 'party' won the elections in November but the bipartisan War Party appears to be firmly in control of Congress. You want us to sing the praises and cheer for the members of our party who did not defect to the other side. Sorry, no thanks. I want to know what Reid and Pelosi are going to do about those defections, what they are going to do to make any progress at all against this regime, and until I start seeing some victories rather than one stunning defeat after another, I will not be cheering.

[burrowowl]

8. AND DAMN EVERY DINO THAT VOTED FOR IT!

[rodeodance]

19. I raise a glas to all the NO voters tonight. Good fight.

[mzmolly]

22. Thanks rodeodance.

I think as voters we have to let people know when we appreciate their efforts as well. :hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

56. It was great that Jane Harman did vote no. She obviously did know they would lose. They must

have counted the votes before hand.

I wound having a lovely glass of plum wine and fell asleep for an hour. Woke up to remembering this nightmare.

Peace.

[KoKo]

20. NOW...WE SEE...WHAT IT IS! NOW WE SEE!!!! n/t

[Octafish]

23. Thank you, Democrats!

The Democratic Party IS the best political party.

Thanks for the reminder, mzmolly.

[mzmolly]

25. Thank you Octafish. The MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS voted AGAINST the temp measure.

And as far as I know every Republican in office voted for it?

[IChing]

30. 2 republicans voted against it and I think Hoyer had a great speech

However, why can the republicans leadership get their troops in line and we can't?
There is power in leadership to take away power in committee assignments, privileges and purse from these traitors in the house.

I know there is such power. BTW...nominated thread

[mzmolly]

31. We've never been "organized" or guilty of group think.

It's our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

32. BIngo.

While I appreciate our party's absence of blind faith and obedience that seems to define the Republican party, I am always dismayed when the Dems can't all fall in line together when it's necessary. There are ALWAYS Dems who vote with the Repubs, and rarely Repubs who vote with the Dems, on these critical issues anyway.

Like you, I blame leadership.

[mzmolly]

35. But who decides when it's necessary?

These are not simple times.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

51. It's complicated, as you said

more succintly in your post above mine, the Dems refusal to vote in unison is both our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

However I would think that in matters relating to protecting the Constitution, a little unity might be a good thing.

[John Q. Citizen]

60. Yeah, defending the 4th amendment of the constitution is a pretty grey area...

and besides, we still have 9 left in the bill of rights. I see it as a 90% win....

[Warren Stupidity]

63. .

Now you're thinking like a team player.

[John Q. Citizen]

70. I was being sarcastic.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

33. Nothing to see there...move along and be sure to Vote Dem in '08 ..

we are looking for a change....looking for a change...hopeful for a change...think there will be a change...there will be a change...we are promised there will be a change....we are told...we heard...there will be a change. a change.

[mzmolly]

36. Feel free to enable another eight years of this shit if you choose koko01.

But, I doubt you will.

[mzmolly]

34. So Gore would have us in the same position today as Bush?

Again, the MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS opposed this measure contrast that to TWO Republicans. This, in the days of "Orange alerts" - LIHOP, MIHOP and/or incompetence and "gut feelings" depending upon your perspective.

And if you think both Parties suck, why stick around "Democratic" Underground?

[KoKo]

42. I suspect you are angrier about this than you are letting on...

It's not a good day for us MzMolly. And, I've read your posts and respect you even though I'm to the left of you. I was once a "centrist/DLC Dem." Haven't been that way since "Selection 2000." But, I don't see how any Dem can't see this vote as a dreadful warning sign.

I heard and watched Reid and Pelosi's Presser on C-Span. THEY LIED! They DID...and there's no other way to look at what they said and justify what happened with the Senate Vote and tonight's House vote.

Anyway...Peace to You...but many of us are torn between Heartbreak and Angst. I'm going for the Angst. I expected better. I was stupid to think it would be better....I don't like feeling stupid and gullible. No one does..

[mzmolly]

43. I'm as left as it gets on most issues. A Wellstone Democrat if you will.

But, I worry that DU will become a place where we fail to appreciate "nuance" while castigating Republicans for the same damn thing.

I like you Koko, always have - no hard feelings on my part. I understand people are upset, but I wish we'd collectively maintain perspective in times that are tough. I try to assist in that regard. Bush was attempting to "divide" with his stunt and he has accomplished that. He had YEARS with the R's in charge to press for this measure, he chose NOW. I hate to see that asshole score political points off of our differences.

:hi:

[KoKo]

47. I'm too upset to answer you rationally...but

thanks...

[Cameron27]

27. To all the Democrats who voted no,

and to mzmolly for posting this. :toast:

[mzmolly]

37. Thanks seasonedblue.

:hi:

[Zomby Woof]

46. Yes

The MAJORITY of the Democrats voted NO, but you wouldn't know it based on the whining and hand-wringing going on in here.

I am disappointed with Webb, because I think he has LOTS of potential to be a standard-bearer for the party in the coming years. I tend to evaluate careers over the long term, and not a misstep here and there, so I remain disappointed with him, but not counting him out for good.

Feinstein, one of my senators, on the other hand, I wrote off years ago. Her time is up.

But to quit the party over 16 votes? That's not even a third of Senate Democrats.

[mzmolly]

48. Yes, and less than a fifth in the Congress from what I gather.

:shrug: So on average I think we have less than 1/4 of Dems (total) supporting a "foreign terrorist spy bill" in the days after 911. I'd say we're doing ok, considering.

[saltpoint]

52. Good post. Let me rephrase that to: "Good post as usual."

:thumbsup: :hi:
:dem:

[mzmolly]

49. I'M OUT - THANKS GUYS! Have a great night.

:hi:

[UrbScotty]

50. THANK YOU to those Democrats AND to you, mzmolly.

It seems as if all Dems are being given a bad rap for the, um, non-progresiveness (I'm putting it mildly!) of the other 57.

So here's a :toast: to those who stood up and said NO! to this boneheaded legislation, and here's a :toast: to you, mzmolly, for putting things into perspective.

[mzmolly]

65. Thank you.

:hi:

[Maven]

53. This is pollyannaish nonsense.

I'm sorry, but it needs to be said.

There's nothing here worth toasting.

[Individualist]

62. and certainly not a time for celebration

Nothing here worth toasting, indeed!

http://counterpunch.com/lindorf08042007.html

Spy Power: Bush Demands, Congress Delivers -- Again and Again and Again

By DAVE LINDORFF

What was Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) thinking when he told Senate colleagues it was a "sad day" when that body started taking its marching orders from an outsider (the president and the director of national security), in passing a new version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that gives the president a free hand to spy on communications of Americans without a judicial review?

Is he implying that this is the first time the Senate has done this?

Isn't that exactly what the Senate (and the House) did when they passed the so-called USA PATRIOT Act in October 2001? Isn't that what they did in overturning the Posse Comitatus Act and in altering the Insurrection Act last fall? Isn't it what they did in approving the Military Commissions Act last year, which retroactively okayed the use of torture on captives?

The truth is that the Senate and House have both become little more than rubber stamps for Administration power grabs ever since 9-11. Indeed, since that date, the members of Congress have been willing sell-outs of their own institution, which today bears no resemblance to what the Founders described in Article I of the Constitution--a document which the members have effectively destroyed.

For the past six-and-a-half years we have watched as a group of political midgets have destroyed what hundreds of thousands of our ancestors put their lives on the line to create and defend--a government system that was founded on the concept of individual rights and liberties, and that was structured to limit the power of the executive.

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Indeed.

I find this grasping at straw behavior, this endless looking for the silver lining, mindless and inane. This was yet another stunning defeat. There is NOTHING to celebrate.

[saltpoint]

55. Disappointed at the outcome of the vote, I expect to wake up tomorrow still

a Democrat.

The OP has bravely asserted that a large majority of Democrats in the House tonight voted correctly and are owed their due.

I strongly agree. I applaud them and the OP for acknowledgement of those wh voted as we would have hoped they would.

In 1972 I sat and watched the election returns as Richard Milhouse Nixon crushed my candidate, George McGovern, in landslide percentages.

It was a very instructive lesson on what is at stake.

Legislation can be rewritten and done over and even challenged in the courts. I expect that a Democratic administration will bring with it in 2008 a larger and more workable majority iin both chambers, unless people like John Sununu and Norm Coleman pull some kind of magic rabbit from their electoral hats.

I would also urge people who are so forcefully opposed to the OP's point here to read the sum of her postings on DU. If you came away from such a reading not persuaded that you were dealing with an intelligent and perceptive soul, I'd be very surprised.

[mzmolly]

66. You are much too kind Old Crusoe.

Much, to kind. :hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

57. I thank all but one Democrat who voted No & the 2 Republicans. They were wonderful and were

set-up to fail by their leader. I will not toast anyone on this. It is a very tragic evening for the history of our country. Our fourth amendment was slaughtered right before our eyes.

[AtomicKitten]

58. word

cheers

[ChiciB1]

59. Nice Of You To Hand Out Kudos... But What Did WE get???

I'm done for the day, going to bed and I don't expect tomorrow to make me feel any better! It's Sunday and it going to be "talkie, talkie" on MSM and I bet dollars to donuts the Repukes will be cheering!

I have a lot of work I can do and won't be watching the "kiss up, suck up stuff!"

[Warren Stupidity]

64. I believe that we the people got

The Royal Shaft

[ChiciB1]

69. DING! DING! DING! You're THE WINNER! n/t

[dkofos]

68. HEAR HEAR