TPM: Dems did what many expected they would do: they caved.

[babylonsister]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016199.php

It's disappointing, but not surprising. After the president scuttled a compromise between Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and congressional Democrats, Senate Dems did what many expected they would do: they caved.

The Senate bowed to White House pressure last night and passed a Republican plan for overhauling the federal government's terrorist surveillance laws, approving changes that would temporarily give U.S. spy agencies expanded power to eavesdrop on foreign suspects without a court order.

The 60 to 28 vote, which was quickly denounced by civil rights and privacy advocates, came after Democrats in the House failed to win support for more modest changes that would have required closer court supervision of government surveillance. The legislation, which is expected to go before the House today, would expand the government's authority to intercept without a court order the phone calls and e-mails of people in the United States who are communicating with people overseas.

Bush is getting practically everything he asked for. Indeed, under Bush's warrantless-search program launched in 2001, the administration could conduct oversight-free surveillance only if it suspected someone on the call was a terrorist. Under the bill passed by the Senate yesterday, that condition no longer exists.

As Gregory Nojeim, senior counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology, said, "If this bill becomes law, Americans who communicate with a person abroad can count on one thing: The NSA may be listening."

As for the deal struck by Dems and McConnell, the Speaker's office told the Washington Post, "We did everything {McConnell} wants, and now he says he doesn't like the bill. They didn't move the goal post; they moved the stadium."

Harry Reid emphasized that yesterday's measure is temporary, and that the Senate will revisit the issue in six months. That's not exactly reassuring. For one thing, Dems will be just as fearful in February as they are now. For another, that's six months of the administration having largely unchecked surveillance power.

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. SO, now that they have CONFIRMED they are a bunch of sell outs and don't REALLY care about

OUR civil liberties, what now? ONLY 28 Senators had the balls to vote against this bill???? 28 out of 100!!!!!! They make me SICK! Can you imagine the damage these THUGS can do in 6 months time??? OMG. I've had it. These people have lost all sense of what's right! They will revisit this in 6 months? BIG FUCKING DEAL! They will revisit it and RENEW IT! We aren't stupid.

Our ONLY hope is the House kills this today. :grr:

[babylonsister]

2. And that's far from guaranteed; I've already read this a.m. the House

will probably follow suit.:-( Stuff the constituents and our Constitutional rights; it's time to vacation.

[bigtree]

7. I read the one sentence analysis stating that in several of these cloned articles

I get the sense though that Reid was outmaneuvered in the Senate and might have Pelosi muck it up by offering a different bill, sending it to conference.

As one poster said, though, vacations loom and conferences take time . . .

[babylonsister]

13. I really hope you're right and the House manages to 'muck it up'. A

little less vacation seems to be in order when you consider what's at stake.

[KoKo]

37. I'm hoping that House Muck's it up and it's put off until after Recess ...

and...if it isn't then I'm going to have to figure that Pelosi and Reid being outmaneuvered once again means that they both need to be replaced. There's something wrong that they come out and SAY one thing and then ACT in another. There's much than can be blamed on Repug Obstruction....but at some point we Dems need to ask...WHY AND HOW do the REPUGS keep GETTING AWAY with Obstruction? :grr: Are our Dems somehow "enablers" of the very people who bite them in the back? And, what about those l6 Dems that Reid somehow can't control?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. Last night I was multi-tasking, watching the House and Keith Olbermann. Richard Wolf

and Jonathan Turley both said the Dems would cave.

Yesterday was my day off and I spent most of it watching the House. I hadn't a clue that the House Dems needed 2/3 to win the vote. It was already doomed before it began and so the whole thing was bullshit. Grandstanding. Take a fork, and you'll see America is dead.

[EV_Ares]

3. U said it correct; "disappointing but expected" this is what the Dem

leadership unfortunately has been doing since they got in control of the house. We read in the paper where Conyers or someone else in a leadership role is going to do this or that and in the end it just disappears. As a result, they are losing respect all the way around from everyone. All you can do is hope that someone or something will change.

If people are paying attention to the investigations, at least they can get a feel of how corrupt this administration is. That is something I guess.

It just seems the Dems don't really fight back against the media and republicans. For example, the media talking about this congress having the lowest approval ever. They are at least 1 point higher than the republican congress they took over and they don't fight back that it is just not them, it is congress as a whole the people are pissed at which is why they are lower than Bush's approval. There are a lot of things they could counter if they would. Hard to understand.

But caving in on this one tops everything. Unbelievable even for them on this one.

[Zodiak]

4. Selling out your constituents is such a noble campaign strategy

That is what bothers me the most. If they are pissing off their base, who do they expect to vote for them next time?

I am not giving up my liberties that our forfathers died for to get Dems elected. It is too high of a price to give jobs to enablers and backstabbers.

[KoKo]

38. Agree....this one was a cave that it's impossible to ignore...

It's kind of the end of the road for these excuses and accountablity needs to rear it's head.

[A wise Man]

6. Bush had to get them give him a bill

that would vindicate him of illegal spying on us as an excuse of home land security. So now if this came up in an impeachment hearing towards him or Gonzo they can't use that as a charge because now they are complicit.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. I wonder whether the dems were prepared for leadership in both Houses.

They seem to act like they're still the minority party with their timidity and lack of intrepid direction of their own program. They remind me of a battered wife who suddenly is free of persecution and can't recognize a life without submission.

[EV_Ares]

14. I think they were prepared and they know how to lead. I am beginning

to think the problem is this is a "good old boys" club in DC and the # 1 priority is to protect the status quo. Don't rock the boat too much. Their interests evidently are ind DC not what is in the best interests of their constituents. Either way they are not doing what they told us and everyone they were going to do.

[loudsue]

24. The BIGGEST problem is the DLC. We HAVE to get republicans OUT of the Dem party.

Every single one.

:kick:

[B Calm]

25. BINGO!

[Individualist]

28. They've succeeded in turning the party into a submissive branch of the republican party

Damn them! :puke:

[Peregrine Took]

46. 100% correct but it won't be easy to dump them.

[VP505]

9. It would be interesting to know

WHAT IN THE HELL COULD THEY BE THINKING? Is it that they want to appear TOUGH on terrorism, they think more dissatisfied RePukes will vote Democratic because of this, or is there something more insidious going on? Regardless this on top of the other things they have wimped out on makes me want to SCREAM!

[EV_Ares]

16. If that is what they are thinking, they are really stupid. We have all known

there is a smarter way to fight terrorism than the republican idiots. It is not us they have to convince.

[OzarkDem]

10. Dems still think the GOP is in charge

I can't think of any other explanation. They must be so isolated on the Hill that they've managed to let the GOP think they don't have a majority.

Dems are still under the spell of the Stockholm Syndrome. Is it possible the GOP uses some kind of psychological manipulation to keep Dem leaders in line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal. The term Stockholm Syndrome was coined by the criminologist and psychiatrist Nils Bejerot, who assisted the police during the robbery, and referred to the syndrome in a news broadcast.

[fasttense]

11. Some people call what the Dems have done caving,

other people call it kowtowing.

[Breeze54]

12. Apparently they believe "Doh! Leader..."

"Bush has said he would reject any bill that his intelligence director deemed unable
"to prevent an attack on the country."
"We've worked hard and in good faith with the Democrats to find a solution, but we are
not going to put our national security at risk," Bush said after meeting with counter-
terror and homeland security officials at FBI headquarters Friday morning.

"Time is short."

Why does * keep saying "Time is short"?
I have been hearing a lot of this type of 'ramp up rhetoric' lately from him.
Is it more fear mongering or does he know something we don't know?

------------

I'm greatly disappointed in the Senate today.

Before the vote, Democrats excoriated the GOP plan, which Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.,
said "provides a weak and practically nonexistent court review."

They stamped their feet and pouted and then gave him what he wanted. :puke:

:grr:

[EV_Ares]

17. On top of that, remember how the Dems were going to keep everyone

in DC until the work got done, no more weekends going home, etc.

Now look how Bush looks by making them stay in session until the work is done.

Idiots.

[A wise Man]

21. I don't want to hear any F'n excuses tomorrow

on the talk shows

[TankLV]

36. I love the "we've worked hard and in good faith with the Democrats" part...

And they report this with a straight face, in all seriousness...

Is this "candid camera"?...

Or "Amerikkka's Sickest Videos"????

[Hubert Flottz]

15. Stampeded by the boy who cries WOLF, the sheep lay down like

the unthinking little defenseless lambs that they, are and cry Baaaaaaaaaah, go ahead and eat us, we're too scared to fight back!

[Golden Raisin]

18. The 6-month reassessment will be

just as phony as the reassessment of the "Surge" in September. Spying will be renewed or made more comprehensive and the "Surge" will probably quadruple.

[EV_Ares]

19. Yeah, and the surge you can read between the lines, September is

not going to be the day they decide if it is working or not. It is pretty clear they supposedly need more time now and here we are basically going along with it.

[radfringe]

20. yep

weenies and rubber-stampers

but heaven forbid we do something to make a change because we might fail and be embarassed

[The Vinyl Ripper]

22. They ought to call the Dems "spelunkers"

Since they are so into "caving".. ;)

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

23. Where can find the roll call?

[Breeze54]

26. THOMAS (Library of Congress)

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Search by bill number

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

29. Thank you, but I have no idea what the bill # is.

[Breeze54]

34. FISA -- search by keyword, etc.

Go learn how!! ;) That's how I learned.

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

42. Thanks, I actually searched for "terrorist".

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

43. FISA turned up nothing.

If you have the link please post it, I will then be able to find it for myself from now on. Thanks.

[Breeze54]

44. Someone posted the 16 turncoats names...in GD

I don't have the link. Sorry.

Maybe it hasn't been posted on Thomas yet? The roll call, I mean. It is a Saturday.

Here--> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1509581&mesg_id=1509581

[B Calm]

27. Here they are

Lincoln (D)
Pryor (D)
Feinstein (D)
Salazar (D)
Carper (D)
Nelson (D)
Inouye (D)
Bayh (D)
Landrieu (D)
Mikulski (D)
Klobuchar (D)
McCaskill (D)
Nelson (D)
Conrad (D)
Casey (D)
Webb (D)

[shireen]

40. i emailed Mikulski, politely demanded an explanation.

if you've never been active about contacting your representatives in the past, now is the time to do it. We need to light a fire under their butts and make sure they hear from us everytime they do something against our interests.

Exerting this pressure on them is not going to work unless more people start questioning them, inundating them with calls and emails.

[PassingFair]

30. Can this be stopped in the House?

"The legislation, which is expected to go before the House today,..."

[babylonsister]

31. Yes. The question is, will it be stopped? nt

[peacetalksforall]

32. I seem to be only able to see it as losing the ENTIRE PACKAGE

- they gave away our privacy, they lost their arguments and legal standing.

Please educate me.

I also see it as the DLC winning their center-right-very right crap.

I feel hopeless. Please educate me.

Why would anyone in the world feel that they have to give the killing, maiming, stealing PNAC, Baron, war mongersing corporations, Cheney and Bush families ANYTHING? WHY?

[Marr]

33. Any Congress that caves in to a lame duck President who has a 30% approval rating

is complicit. There's no other explanation. Either their agenda is the same as Bush's, or they just don't care one way or the other. There's no reason for a Congress to even *compromise* with a president in Bush's position-- let alone cave in to him.

[KoKo]

39. Good point....He can't go much lower....yet he seems to get everything he wants.

[Grandrose]

41. You nailed it.....

Not to mention spineless and enabling! I am so disgusted but not surprised, there seems to be one political party...the right and the far right.

This is not the Democratic Party of FDR, JFK and Bobby, Truman, Johnson or Carter!

Where is the pride of at least battling until the last vote? No they cave in and let the Bush/Cheney cabal reticule and laugh at the hapless Democrats!!!
:grr:

[kath]

47. You really did nail it. At this point, I'm honestly not sure how much of this I can take.

The dems continue to be friggin' worthless. We need a new party SOOOOO badly, but our ridiculous two-party system makes that so damn difficult...

[tex-wyo-dem]

48. Either that or...

They're being blackmailed with information gathered by the same spying program they are approving.

Of course, the corporate/RW controlled "news" media is no help either. Dems say it's an attack on our civil liberties, public hears "Dems are soft on terror."

[TankLV]

35. Yep

I'm not surprised...

DISGUSTED - but not surprised...

[Peregrine Took]

45. What are we going to do with this friggin' party? They aren't loyal to us yet

they want loyalty from us on election day.

[Solly Mack]

49. never give legal cover to a wanna-be tyrant

when you do give a wanna-be tyrant legal cover then don't expect people to take you seriously when you say you're against the tyrant...

[Canuckistanian]

50. Just temporary? Oh, no problem, then.

I'm sure Gonzales will be a STELLAR advocate for civil rights during that time.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: