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The Moderate Voice blogs on the Senate FISA vote

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:27 AM
Original message
The Moderate Voice blogs on the Senate FISA vote

Senate Passes Bush-Backed Eavesdropping Spy Boost Bill

By Joe Gandelman

In the end, President George Bush played a high-stakes card game with the Democratic controlled Senate, went on the offensive on TV and got just what he wanted:

<...>

Although Democratic leaders expressed disappointment that it had passed, the bottom line was that the vote passed via a coalition of 16 Democrats and Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman joining all 43 Republicans to pass the measure. Lieberman said:

“We’re at war. The enemy wants to attack us,” Lieberman said during the Senate debate. “This is not the time to strive for legislative perfection.

The White House was pleased — but some others weren’t:

<...>

From a strictly political standpoint, if the TPM piece is indeed true, Bush held out for the strongest deal he could get, went on TV and seemingly scared some Democrats to go along with him (some other Democrats clearly agreed the law update was needed) since his TV talk centered on how critical it was to give government these new updated tools to protect the U.S. And it worked — indicating a) he still has a lot of clout since he can peel off wavering or sympathetic Democrats so they join in coalition with GOPers and b) if it worked this time chances are this tactic will be used on other high-stakes measures.

Likely outcome: it’s going to further hurt the Democratic leadership with its base since it will be seen to be the equivalent of former Majority Leader Bill Frist, who seemed powerless and outmaneuvered on key votes.

Reaction from administration critics on the web, Democrats and some Republicans who are uneasy over giving this administration any new powers is likely to be swift.

The always independent-minded The Talking Dog, for instance, writes:

<...>

Its 2007, now, and Democrats are in control of both houses of Congress (really?), Iraq has gone to hell in a hand-basket (and will keep going further and further to hell), the President’s ideological and heavy-handed tactics have been widely discredited, the Attorney General blatantly lies to Congress and no one takes any action to stop him, the President’s approval rating hovers in the 20’s… and yet.

Further down TTD writes:

<...>

And after over 6 1/2 years of disastrous administration of our government by George W. Bush, Democratic members of Congress seem incapable of figuring this out. Remarkable. A long– a very long– 534 days to go.




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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:40 AM
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1. I don't think most people will realize what was passed until it effects
them personally. FISA--senate passed the law for terrorist surveilance... that's what the regular t.v reports if they report anything at all. The masses will barely know what happened to them in the dead Friday night when most were out or relaxing with friends and family.
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Senate passing this bill
with the help of 16 Dem's and LieBerman makes me want to run into the street for some primal scream therapy! This from the article sums it up:
" the President’s approval rating hovers in the 20’s… and yet.

Further down TTD writes:

And after over 6 1/2 years of disastrous administration of our government by George W. Bush, Democratic members of Congress seem incapable of figuring this out. Remarkable. A long– a very long– 534 days to go."

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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:47 AM
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3. I'm pretty sure there is a sunset clause so at least it can be revisited.n/t
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So in six
months they get to lay down again, if they didn't stand up and say HELL NO the last time and they didn't stand up and say HELL NO this time what makes anyone think they will stand up and say HELL NO in six months?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:47 AM
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4. Sixteen DEMOCRATS voted for this? Tell me again why I am supposed to hate Ralph Nader?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:20 PM
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11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:53 AM
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5. Deleted message
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april Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Ditto I am so over all of this ...what in the hell is going on ?
THEY ARE ALL PUPPETS..NOT JUST TONY BLAIR! They talk the talk and then hang us out to dry.What is our democratic congress doing ?All hail to the King and his court
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Vichy. nt
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you ProSense
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 10:57 AM by chill_wind
I have been pounding these threads on this pending debacle non-stop for almost 4 days. It's so depressing to see so many of the same rather placid rationalizations and superficial defenses of this latest Dem gift to Bush's already near totalitarianism appear again and again. It's depressing to see any at all. How much more cement and potential immunity for his crimes can we possibly voluntarily provide?

More and more, all I can go back to again and again in my own mind is that if Americans, including our own Dem Congress and all our defenders of them in their latest betrayal-- soothers and rationalizers among us right here, can't see what is at stake- well, feels like we deserve the government we get :-(

K&R!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Before you have an anti-Dem fit, look closer at the details
SO, how many secret domestic spy programs are there anyway, and are they legal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1481897

I'm reading reactions on DU that seem custom-made for the opposite forum. Alarmingly, some are not. They are real DUer's going off the deep end w/o analyzing the facts.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. What are you talking about? n/t
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