7 more Marines dead in CH-46 crash

[Mortos]

MSNBC is reporting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17021136/

Video Report

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=4d1d824d-10b0-48ae-be3f-0c207cbbad28&p=hotvideo_m_iraq&t=c2511&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17021136/&fg=

[dogday]

1. And no resolution to stop this war in sight ....................nt

[Renew Deal]

2. This is how the Soviet's were displaced from Afghanistan.

:(

[blogslut]

3. I will kick this

and I will recommend.

And now I will cry.

[CatWoman]

4. what's with all the helicopter crashes?

:shrug:

[Mortos]

6. The 4 prior to this one

were brought down with small arms fire, probably machine guns.

There has been a claim of responsibility by Iraqi insurgents and a reported witness who claims this one was shot down by a missile.

It would appear that the insurgents are adapting to our fighting techniques and improving their attacks.

For more information see:

Vietnam and the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan

[farmbo]

7. Somebody's supplying the Insurgents with Stinger-type shoulder-fired missles.

Not good news for the Home Team.

:scared:

[CatWoman]

10. yikes!!!

:scared:

[krispos42]

14. Could have been an RPG

either a lucky shot or hitting the helo while it was hovering. Observers would have simply seen a smoke trail in the sky.

Of course, if the Iraqis found or aquired SA-7 or SA-14 shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles, or stole some US Stingers, it is going to be much tougher going.

[Marie26]

20. Who is that someone?

I think it's Saudi Arabia, not Iran as Bush is claiming. All these helicopters are being shot down in Baghdad & outskirts, primarily Sunni areas.

[farmbo]

27. My guess: Russian SAM-14s...laundered thru the Black Market

First...they have these kinds of armaments... and they've been used before in Iraq:

<snip> The weapon employed was a shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missile (SAM) known as the SAM-14 Gremlin (early reports said it was the SAM-7; the SAM-14 is the follow-on system to the SAM-7).

Russian made, it is a portable missile thought to be in the hands of many would-be terrorists around the world. This missile is a serious threat to commercial aircraft on takeoffs and landings, and when flying below 18,000 feet.

Crew of one needed to acquire target and fire.
Reload time 25 seconds.
Maximum range: 6,000 meters, 18,000 feet.
Maximum altitude: 6,000 meters, 18,000 feet
Missile speed: 600 meters (1,800 feet) per second
Guidance: Passive Infrared homing (guides toward heat such as provided by an aircraft engine)
Fuse type: Explodes on contact.
Warhead: Fragmentary<snip>

Second...anyone remember when Cheney lectured Putin on "democracy" last year:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1921877

VILNIUS, Lithuania May 4, 2006 (AP)— Vice President Dick Cheney accused Vladimir Putin's Russia on Thursday of restricting the rights of its citizens, and said "no legitimate interest is served" by turning energy resources into implements of blackmail.

"In Russia today, opponents of reform are seeking to reverse the gains of the last decade," Cheney told a conference of Eastern European leaders whose countries once lived under Soviet oppression, and now in Russia's shadow.<snip>

"No legitimate interest is served when oil and gas become tools of intimidation or blackmail, either by supply manipulation or attempts to monopolize transportation," he said. "And no one can justify actions that undermine the territorial integrity of a neighbor, or interfere with democratic movements."

It was among the strongest remarks that any U.S. official has made publicly about Putin's leadership style. The Bush administration for the most part has tried to play down, at least publicly, any strong differences with Putin.<snip>

If YOU were Putin, wouldn't YOU be working to slow down these NeoCon blowhards?

[Mortos]

26. Your's is the second post I have seen

stating as fact that someone (a previous comment stated the Iranians were supplying sam-7 shoulder fired missiles) when there have been no reports of choppers brought down by them or even reports of them being fired at the aircraft.

This kind of opinion stated as fact is very dangerous and led us into this foolish war and will likely lead us into another with Iran.

If you have some factual evidence of your supposition, please provide it, otherwise clearly state that it is your opinion.

Don't help Bush into the next war with Iran.

[BOSSHOG]

5. Hey, a new talking point for your "conservative" neighbors

Yeah, but more die in car wrecks then in helicopter wrecks. Their compassion is just so overwhelming.

[lies and propaganda]

8. or more get shot in DC every year

i just had that dumbfuck argument attempted on me.

[Marie26]

23. OMG

My Republican cousin tried that same argument on me. I wonder if they circulate these asinine talking points?

[lies and propaganda]

28. i think its safe to assume they do...

morans.

[Bandit]

9. They're still flying those antiques??

The Marines are given the oldest equipment and asked to do the toughest jobs with it. The old CH-46 was outdated during Vietnam. The Army had the CH-47 and that was forty years ago....

[Hardrada]

13. I remember seeing those all the time on the news.

I guess you gotta go with the equipment you have etc...something like what Rummy said. More heartless bastards where he came from I guess.

[krispos42]

16. I think it is still our biggest helo

Bigger than the Sea Stallion, even. They will probably replace them with the V-22, but that is still having some problems.

[Bandit]

17. No the CH-47 is quite a bit bigger

The Shit Hook or CH-47 can carry an entire platoon of soldiers. It also is dwarfed by the CH-54 Sky Crane..

[krispos42]

19. My bad

I though the CH-46 was the Marine's varient of the CH-47. I didn't realize they were two seperate aircraft, and that the CH-47 was the bigger of the two.

[Binka]

11. My Ben Goes Back In 8 Weeks

I am just waiting for the VISIT. God Damn. Fuck and SHIT! Fuck Fuck Fuck. Worried sick. :cry:

[SeattleGirl]

12. God, Binka....

I'm so sorry. :hug:

[malaise]

15. Thanks George Bush n/t

[Aviation Pro]

18. We have now reached the fourth level of insurgency....

...the ability to direct small arms fire (the tactic uses the massing of ground troops and directing withering fire at one point in the sky to literally shroud a slow moving target - a helicopter - in lead) is a coordinated and directed tactic. Chances are, the insurgency has a very fluid chain of command structure and the ability to execute complex missions in an OPTEMPO environment.

[Nimrod2005]

22. I think they have a new toy (weapon). You always have to think it is a matter of time before

new stuff start coming in.

[Nimrod2005]

21. Something has been introduced to the Iraqi theater....a new weapon.

[Recursion]

24. Can't find any word on the unit

But all the stateside email lists I'm on just lit up with the same question. Hopefully we'll know more soon.

[democrank]

25. I can`t even find the right words.

This is so sad.