BUSH ADMIN Has Kept Secret-A Judges Ruling That Concludes-Spy Program Is Illegal

[kpete]

Behind the Surveillance Debate
A federal judge's secret ruling restricting the intelligence community's surveillance powers helped spur a Capitol Hill bid to grant Bush new authority.

By Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball
Newsweek
Updated: 12:17 p.m. PT Aug 1, 2007

Aug. 1, 2007 - A secret ruling by a federal judge has restricted the U.S. intelligence community's surveillance of suspected terrorists overseas and prompted the Bush administration's current push for "emergency" legislation to expand its wiretapping powers, according to a leading congressman and a legal source who has been briefed on the matter.

The order by a judge on the top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court has never been publicly acknowledged by administration officials—and the details of it (including the identity of the judge who wrote it) remain highly classified. But the judge, in an order several months ago, apparently concluded that the administration had overstepped its legal authorities in conducting warrantless eavesdropping even under the scaled-back surveillance program that the White House first agreed to permit the FISA court to review earlier this year, said one lawyer who has been briefed on the order but who asked not to be publicly identified because of its sensitivity.

...........

The judge refused to reauthorize the complete program in the way it had been previously approved by at least one earlier FISA judge, the lawyer said, adding that the secret decision was a "big deal" for the administration.

more at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20075751/site/newsweek/

[thunder rising]

1. Would that mean that Gonzalez would be guilty of breaking the law

and undermining the Constitution? (leaving the King of it for the moment) Does that mean we should put him out of office and into jail?

Well it's not like he's flying a flag upside down or anything.

[kpete]

2. what it means is

that BUSHCO has broken the law and continues to COVER-UP the illegality

[AndreaCG]

3. And this is news how? (No disrespect meant, kpete.)

[lonestarnot]

4. The ruling was secret.

[electron_blue]

56. No, it wasn't. I remember when it came out.

There was just another major distraction going on in the country at the time so nobody paid much attention to it. But it was discussed here quite a bit.

[peabody71]

62. IMPEACH!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. the Judge's ruling that it WAS illegal

[electron_blue]

70. my mistake. I meant that the ruling wasn't secret (not that the spying wasn't illegal).

[Generator]

5. And the Dems are helping

Complicity is becoming clear.

[Senator]

22. Accessories After The Fact (again)

Or does Rockefeller have another irrelevant, CYA note in his secret safe for this round of aiding and abetting too?

--

[guitar man]

48. not necessarily

because I'm sure Gonzo wouldn't recall that rulling...:sarcasm:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

6. Travel by small plane for this judge might be ill-advised... n/t

[annabanana]

7. This is on MSNBC's site... I know that the Minn. bridge collapse

is a huge deal, but I would have like to see Keith interrupt the coverage just a little to mention some of the other news of the day. He is our only conduit for actual news . . everyone is nonstop bridge footage...

[PatSeg]

20. Me too!

It was news, but not the ONLY news. How many hours of non-stop footage do we need to see to know that the bridge collapsed??? It was worthy of a few minutes and then updates, but when you have nothing left to report, move on to other news.

[sallyseven]

29. KO was the only one

worth watching last night. He didn't ask stupid questions and did not seem to be at all breathless. I hate the way the newsreaders and hosts act when there is breaking news. All nervous and excited about all the dead people. Very disingenuous.

[frogcycle]

63. yeah - I surfed the others for a couple of minutes just to compare

keith was perfect

you could tell just from his voice that wolfie was jumping up and down with excitement, couldn't wait for a body count

hannity, it the couple of seconds I had his station on, said something like "right now people are concerned with rescue/recovery but there is going to be A LOT OF ANGER over this in a few days"

mmy wife actually came into the room and said "if you are going to watch the bridge coverage, keep it on the channel you had!" - that was while wolfie was bubbling with glee

[0007]

35. Keith Olbermann is the greatest for news coverage......

When oddball begins I'm gone.

[Seabiscuit]

41. I never would have dreamed at any time in my life that at my age now there

would be only one TV program (KO) and one radio program (Air America) to turn to for honest reporting.

If it weren't for the internet and those two programs I would expatriate anywhere in a heartbeat. This country seems about 95% lost.

[starchimes]

45. Don't forget FSTV and PBS news. Both are great.

[Seabiscuit]

69. I don't get FSTV and only rarely watch PBS (Bill Moyers, etc.)

PBS is public broadcasting. I wasn't really considering that when I mentioned TV news programs.

[0007]

52. ...ain't that the truth? nt

[cui bono]

53. Do you not have a Pacifica radio station in your area?

Try these online:

www.kpfk.org Los Angeles area 90.7, 98,7 for more central California.
Best show imho is Backround Briefing with Ian Masters for in depth interviews www.ianmasters.org

www.wbai.org NYC

www.kpfa.org San Francisco area

www.democracynow.org

Actually, here's a link to all Pacifica stations:
http://www.pacificanetwork.org/radio/content/blogsection/7/83/

[Seabiscuit]

68. No, I don't. But thanks for the links.

The local station here in San Diego that carries Air America is KLSD. Reads like you could ingest it.

[cui bono]

71. You're welcome. I can't recommend Ian Masters' shows enough.

If you check out his site he gives details on who his guests are and what they are interviewed about. The main page has his Background Briefing shows. Be sure to click on the link to Live from the Left Coast, his other show that runs right after BF.

[hisownpetard]

57. I agree. There is so much happening these days, besides the bridge,

that needs to be covered, and Keith is one of the very few
reliable sources we have.

[redacted]

8. Recommended

[bleever]

9. Did a similar decision cause them to skirt FISA altogether

when they created the domestic spying program?

And any security program I hear of I expect to be part of a much bigger approach to "sweeping it all up, related and unrelated".


Big damn K&R.

[chill_wind]

10. Can't KICK and Rec this hard enough. All further talks

of any Emergency Congressional bill bailouts before recess for Bush's criminal dilemma should cease and desist right now.

No legislative political cover. No blanket amnesty like Specter tried to pull once already-- (and falsely denied?!!)----don't EVEN entertain it.

Stop it Dems. Kill this "emergency bill" farce now. KILL it, bury it and drive a sharp stake thru its desperate, worn out tell-tale heart.

[jimshoes]

11. Kick and rec

to get some more exposure.

[Oilwellian]

12. Didn't one of the FISA judges resign?

Can't recall who it was but I remember it was a big stink, for a day, and then not another word about it.

[chill_wind]

13. This one is climbing. Like to see it climb even faster. More KR's- please! n/t

[progressoid]

14. Boner Boehner spilled the beans to Cavuto on Fox!

The first public reference to the order came obliquely this week from House Minority Leader John Boehner—one of a number of senior Republicans who have been leading the White House-backed campaign to persuade Congress to rush through an expanded eavesdropping measure before it leaves for August recess at the end of this week.

"There's been a ruling, over the last four or five months, that prohibits the ability of our intelligence services and our counterintelligence people from listening in to two terrorists in other parts of the world where the communication could come through the United States," Boehner said on an interview with Fox News anchor Neal Cavuto.

[donkeyotay]

39. Why the "rush" on a ruling 4 or 5 months ago?

Rushing the Patriot Act through was such a good idea. Rushing into Iraq before it got too hot worked out. Why are they throwing congress up against the wall to overturn a court ruling made 4 or 5 months ago?

[EVDebs]

46. Ben H. Bell, IIIrd's company Global Information Group in the Bahamas

is where TIA was 'privatized' and 'outsourced'. Since it's outside the USA technically outside of US jurisdiction, you gotta ask yourself how reliable this information/data that they're mining is in the first place.

ChoicePoint is notorious for being hacked and losing info in the FIRST PLACE. If a vacuumcleaner approach to detecting US 'terrorists' unfortunately is sweeping up too many liberals, the neocons aren't too concerned with that. But that, a a matter of practicality, is exactly the situation we're finding ourselves in !

The media, when they DO report on this wiretapping story, have only shown that liberal antiwar groups (Ragin' Grannies, UCSantaCruz antiwar activists, Quakers, 'Ted Kennedy' on no-fly-list, etc.) are the victims, oops, recipients, of the program's "effectiveness".

In other words, terrorists aren't being found, but BushCo's opponents are being singled out quite efficiently.

What gives, M$M ? Can't bring yourself to report what's really happening ? Office of Strategic Influence got you by the tongue ?

[AntiFascist]

65. That rings a Bell...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=102&topic_id=2074936

http://disaffecteddems.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Intelligence&action=print&thread=1140996036

http://www.witchvox.com/vn/vn_detail/dt_wn.html?a=usdc&id=5813

http://www.southerncoloradoconsistory.org/bodies.html

[L. Coyote]

15. Here is an attempt to portray the whole story. Do help fill in more info.

SO, how many secret domestic spy programs are there anyway, and are they legal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1481897

[chill_wind]

16. Well this much wasn't a secret. Bush's NSA program also struck down August '06.

In a 44-page memorandum and order, U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor struck down the NSA program, which she said violates the rights to free speech and privacy. (Read the complete ruling -- PDF)

The defendants "are permanently enjoined from directly or indirectly utilizing the Terrorist Surveillance Program in any way, including, but not limited to, conducting warrantless wiretaps of telephone and Internet communications, in contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and Title III," she wrote.

She declared that the program "violates the separation of powers doctrine, the Administrative Procedures Act, the First and Fourth amendments to the United States Constitution, the FISA and Title III."

Her ruling went on to say that "the president of the United States ... has undisputedly violated the Fourth in failing to procure judicial orders."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/17/domesticspying.lawsuit/index.html

And now we're going to let him overhaul FISA and think with a few tweaks of our own we'll have some fresh new serious "oversight"? Bwahhhh!

[rucky]

38. And remember TIA in '01?

They got Poindexter from iran/contra to head the expansive surveillance project. when they floated the idea publicly, they called it Total Information Awareness. When there was outcry, they said they changed the program to Terrorist Information Awareness.

Not scary at all!

[sce56]

17. Of course if he don't get it he has his Daddys friends ready to give him the excuse to demand it

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/08/new-al-qaeda-we.html

New Al Qaeda Web Ad Threatens 'Big Surprise'


August 01, 2007 7:34 PM

Rhonda Schwartz Reports:

A new Al Qaeda propaganda ad, headlined "Wait for the Big Surprise" and featuring a digitally altered photograph of President George Bush and Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf standing in front of a burning White House, was posted on the Internet today.

The brief clip from al Qaeda's "as Sahab" propaganda arm juxtaposes the doctored photo of Bush and Musharraf along with previously seen images of al Qaeda's top leadership -- Osama bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahri and Adam Gadahn -- as well as a photo of an SUV in a motorcade.

There is no additional information provided in the ad, and it closes with the words, "Soon -- God willing," written across the screen and repeated several times.

[Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3437608 |See the Al Qaeda Web Ad Captured by ABC News

[Major Hogwash]

18. Secret rulings, secret courts, and they tell us not to call Bush a Nazi!

What's the difference since they advocate torture and "waterboarding"?

[donkeyotay]

43. Secret programs, secret meetings, secret over....sight committees

What could go wrong? They've privatized and secretized our government. Even our vote counts are secret.

On edit: Oh, but it's for our own good. They're keeping us safe.

[Richard Steele]

19. K&R

[Disturbed]

21. This Pres is more along the lines of Mussolini.

Research Mussolini. You will find out why I call him Busholini.

[formercia]

23. I think it's more like a Latin American Caudillo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caudillo

The related caudillismo is a cultural phenomenon that first appeared during the early 19th century in revolutionary South America, as a type of militia leader with a charismatic personality and enough of a populist program of generic future reforms to gain broad sympathy, at least at the outset, among the common people. Effective caudillismo depends on a personality cult.

The root of caudillismo lies in Spanish colonial policy of supplementing small cadres of professional, full-time soldiers with large militia forces recruited from local populations to maintain public order. Militiamen held civilian occupations but assembled at regular times for drill and inspection. Their salary from the Crown was a token; their recompense was in prestige, primarily because of the fuero militar ("military privilege"), that exempted them from certain taxes and obligatory community work assignments (compare the feudal corvée), and more significantly, exempted them from criminal or civil prosecution. Away from colonial capitals, the militias were at the service of the criollo landowners.

[Solly Mack]

24. oh well...what's one more lie, crime , and cover up

Am I supposed to be
Shocked?
Surprised?
Outraged?
What's my motivation... Justice? Accountability? Consequences? LMAO

[bonito]

25. OVERSIGHT!

The whole damn mess needs oversight to insure checks and balances, there simply is no trust in the way the Executive branch carries on. Congress should step up and turn the cards around to insure it now!

[watrwefitinfor]

26. Thanks, kpete

K & R

[Highway61]

27. K&R n/t

[The Count]

28. So they are secret criminals? Secretly being punished? In secret jails?

What's this shit?

[C_U_L8R]

30. secret courts?????

Have republicans turned this country into East Germany circa 1963 ????

[Tatiana]

31. This is ridiculous. They subvert Congress. Now they ignore the rulings of judges.

Are we a nation of laws?

Do we really value DEMOCRACY (or what's left of it)?

This administration has no respect for the the rule of law whatsoever. We have millions of people in our prison system who are paying the price for breaking our laws. Yet, these people break them on a daily basis and we say impeachment is not an option BECAUSE?

Either we are going to be a nation of laws and punish those who don't follow them or we are a nation of hypocrites and every defense lawyer should be using "the Bush administration defense."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. proud to be #2 er, #10, ah, #47 to K&R

One thing about the bridge story, compared to this one, 1/4 of all bridges in the USA are considered substandard, or in great need of maintenance. that message has been sneaking through the video and the interviews.
what has the admin done for the past 7 years? concentrate on infrastructure? nyet, nyet, soviet. Concentrate on domestic control and surveillance? BINGO.

think of all those billions spent on spyin on your computer and cell phone, and watching you as your bridge collapses.

[Amonester]

33. K&R

There are no... secret... words.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
:FUMING:

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Actually, Great News! It Means That Bush Has Given Up His Magical "War President" Powers

And is accepting judgement from the Courts and Congress. In the past, he claimed that he could ignore both at will.

This will make his removal easier after impeachment and conviction - otherwise we'd have a serious crisis if he refused to accept Congress's decision as law.

[wicket]

36. Are you fucking kidding me????

K & R

:kick:

[peacetalksforall]

37. Secrets - what the U.S. has become?

Criminals – secret
Crimes – secret
Prison locatons – secret
Prison management – secret
Prison transportation – secret
Prisoners future – secret.
Torture teachers - secret
Torture contractors - secret
Torture authorizers - secret

What we are supposed to believe:
Knowing anything about these ‘criminals’ and objecting to them or investigating them is detrimental to the war on terror.

What we know:

No ‘Independent’ Judge who values the Constitution has come forward to say the program is legal.

The only official entity claiming the secrets, prisons, declaration of criminal detainees, methods, is legal are the Republicans running the program and the White House and Democrats who vote with and for them.

In Iran-Contra, the White House deliberately broke the law by going around Congress to conduct their own program and war – illegal trading, illegal war. On some days, this Congress also appears to be allowing a run around on the war on the ground and the snatching and torture of able bodied men who seem to bring out the worst in some prison guard humans who are our kids or are paid torturers - not tomention the designers or the programs and those who authorized it all and everyone who has stolen from us to pay for it.

Who is more guilty?

The Republican few who were taken into the confidence by the White House.
Or the Democrats who must have learned, but kept quiet and those who consistently vote with Warner and Boehner.

The key to this dilemma are the citizens wno are brainwashed about terror and everyone who profits generously from war. An industry revolves around maintaining fear and Congress bends. Many in Congress contribute to the war on terror and ditto the rant of Republicans.

There are plenty who won’t allow these unconstitutional crimes. Too bad there aren’t more to convince those who say they live by Christ that we are our own enemy and our White House and their friends in the military, intelligence services, their contractors, their barons are the terrorists – for control and profits. But that's a secret. We're not supposed to know. Deflect to the terrorists and the THREAT OF TERRORISM - the new industry.

[broadcaster]

40. If members of Congress knew this, why didn't they act...

to exercise oversight power?

I keep finding out that Congress has known about major issues such as this and yet,
they have done zero about it.

Congress remains, in my opinion, as dangerous to the country as Bush/Cheney. It's no
wonder Pelosi is rushing to fix FISA---she was complicit in what Bush had been
doing and never lifted a finger to stop it, so now, she wishes to cover things up.

The entire crew in D.C. needs to be removed from office. Our Congress is as
anti Constitution as Bush's WH.

[StarfishG]

42. secrets

If "you're only as sick as your secrets", then our country is really suffering right now.

[JPZenger]

44. You mean checks and balances really exist?

I was beginning to think that everything we learned in Civics Class was a big lie - that there are 3 branches of government, that no man is above the law, that even the President has to follow the law, that the President only administers laws and does not re-write them, and that there are checks and balances.

It is nice to know that at least one judge still believes what is in the Constitution, even if he has to do it in secret.

[dragon82a]

47. You People have this all wrong!

Forget about FISA....Bush's move to Martial Law and WW III could be a economic windfall for the American Superclass. After all, its unpatriotic not to support that.

Think of all the industries that could be supported by such a move. We could easily shift the USA to a permanent war economy and draft in order to work up to a burgeoning war market.

You have to think of war as a huge market for goods and services.

A world war III is really just what we need.

Martial Law has side benefits(no more money wasted on such trifles as elections look how much those pesky Democratic candidates have raised, with a constant state of war existing, no need for social programs anymore, draft everyone into a new "War" Corp (instead of that peace corp commie-hippie crap) plus when we use the Halliburton Concentration camps to round up Negative Thinkers (dissenters in the old speak).

Think of the enrichment of the enabler class (The political Version of the Superclass) everyone else should be patriotic enough to support them, other wise they need to be re-educated in the Re-education resorts.

I am sure a good portion of our esteemed Democrats up there on the hill right now are busy helping bring this all about.

Since Bush's mandate is heaven sent -who are we to argue with that?. It's unpatriotic if you do (Another advantage of martial law -no more foolishness with the "fairness in media" we can openly appoint Rupert Murdoch czar of FCC). We need to help him get declare god-emperor too.

Start sending all your congressmen right now a letter stating something to the effect:

Dear Rep/Senator

Since Congress has been unwilling to do anything about the dismantling of the constitution.

I hereby request that we immediately put into effect a bill requesting the President Bush be made Supreme God Emperor ad infinitum (saying he has a limited life span is unpatriotic).

That his mandate is divine and that hence forth he will make any and all laws.

Sincerely,

Joe Public

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

51. Welcome to DU, dragon82a. I figure, if a court has ruled against the junta,...

,...the junta is getting a bit itchy about being pushed further into legal territory on this and other matters.

Personally, I'd like to see aggressive legal proceedings on the spying, the USAG firings, the Brewster-Jennings matter, the fraud committed to engage in an unlawful war of aggression, the secret gulags and the obscene war profiteering.

[dragon82a]

54. Thanks very much for the Welcome!

I agree...!

However it really becomes a race to see what will happen first. The faction that want to maintain the "Status Quo" as in maintaining the look of a democracy or... will we cross the Rubicon and venture into a "V" style dictatorship.

The fact is the Rebublicans know they face a wipeout in 08. At this point they are praying for an attack. At the same time we know that with the executive order Bush has signed into being, it gives him that supreme power he craves.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to envision that either an attack could be "allowed" to happen or that it could easily be engineered.

Katrina proved that the country can have a "2nd tier" city be wiped out and the overall economy/country is not unduely affected. In fact I would almost call the Katrina debacle a test case for a terror attack and the aftereffects.

However in this case it would give Bush/Cheny ample excuse for declaration of martial law and all the fun things that that would entail.

The big question would be... would we have a classic civil war? Or would it become something new in the way of civil war?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

58. I imagine something more like the civil rights movement,...on steroids.

But, that is purely speculation, on my part.

I do believe the initial response in the event of a declaration of martial law would be,...panic and confusion.

[debbierlus]

49. This is ludicrous, compromise with criminals to give them more power

WTF????

Nancy Pelosi is certainly not the Speaker I hoped she would be....and, Harry Reid isn't any great shakes either....

We need people with COURAGE, CONVICTION, & the willingness to ACT to stop them!

[nealmhughes]

50. "Secret courts," secret judges, secret prisons, etc. I say burst the bubble now.

This all reeks of Ancien Regime at its worst, lettres de cachet, etc.

Can a republic exist in a vacuum? Nope, only the most superficial form of one.

Habeus corpus is for wimps! Magna Carta is a charming piece of history and the Constitution is a scrap of paper.

The entire Anglo-American systems of rule and justice are quaint and obsolete in our brave new world that has such people in it.

Meanwhile, the levees in NOLA remain unrepaired and rats graze triumphantly in the Lower Ninth Ward. I am glad Mr. Bush, fils gets a vacation, as does Congress. I am long overdue one myself, a vacation sans news media and hopefully anaethesized to the point of not thinking.

[Maat]

55. I posted this over at my blog ...

and, of course, gave Kpete credit for the find.

[Mr. Ected]

59. Calling All Constitutional Scholars! Calling All Constitutional Scholars!

By what constitutional authority may a court of law in the United States hold secret hearings and render secret adjudications?

[me b zola]

60. k&r

[peabody71]

61. IMPEACH!!!

[redqueen]

66. Is it impeachment time yet?

[Supersedeas]

67. was the Attorney General aware of this ruling!?!