*** New Thread at Firedoglake.com- Libby Live: Libby Grand Jury Testimony, Six

[ralps]

Libby Live: Libby Grand Jury Testimony, Six
By: Swopa
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-libby-grand-jury-testimony-six/

Good morning, again, from the media room of the E. Barrett Prettyman Courthouse in Washington, D.C.! Jane, Pach, and I had a pleasant morning cup of tea/coffee with the legendary Arianna Huffington, through whose assistance we are here in the first place. (Thanks!!) Ms. H. is in town for the day and couldn't pass up the opportunity to watch her longtime bete noire Tim Russert on the witness stand. She also shared with us the latest on her evolving relationship with Joe Klein, which perhaps she (or Jane?) will share later.

The accumulated forces of justice are gathering in the courtroom, so I expect we'll be under way soon. The media room is packed in anticipation of Russert's testimony. As always, before boarding the ride, you must not only be this tall (can you see how high I'm holding my hand?), you must read the ground rules…

NOTES: (1) This is not an official transcript — just a very loose paraphrase, at best — so don't treat it as one. Even exchanges that look like verbatim dialogue are just the gist of each question and each answer, with any key phrases or pauses included as best I can. (2) My own notes will be in parentheses and/or italics. (3) I'll tell you the time at the end of each update; expect about 15-20 minutes before the next one. The hamsters that run the servers will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime. (4) I didn't write the book on the Valerie Plame outing — but you should buy it, if you haven't already. If you're wondering who this "Swopa" character is, my previous writings on Plamemania can be found here.

Walton opens by discussing the issue of handing over to the defense the previously withheld affidavits filed on behalf of Tim Russert before an agreement was reached on providing his testimony to the grand jury. He thinks that the privacy issues that justified keeping them secret before are no longer applicable, so — even though he doesn't think there's anything notable in the affidavits — he's ruling that Fitzgerald has to hand them over to the defense. Fitzgerald doesn't protest much; he agrees to redact the portions he thinks still should be protected by grand jury secrecy rules, and he'll submit the redacted affidavits at the first break in testimony.

Walton also returns to a couple of articles (Articles 412 and 413) where he'd limited how much of them the prosecution could present to the jury as evidence. (This was brought up at the end of my last post last night.) Walton now sees the point of what Fitzgerald was arguing, so he's going to let them use more of the articles than he would previously. The defense objects, arguing that the prosecution hasn't established a foundation for providing the articles. Walton politely brushes this

snip

[helderheid]

1. rec 1!

[Jackpine Radical]

3. 2.

Uh, 3. Maybe 9 by the time I finish this edit.

[ralps]

5. Hi Jackpine Radical, Thanks

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Yo, Ralps.

All that "smiley" stuff back atcha.

[ralps]

4. Hi helderheid, thanks

[ralps]

2. *** New Thread at Firedoglake.com-Libby Live: Libby Grand Jury Testimony, Seven

Libby Live: Libby Grand Jury Testimony, Seven
By: Swopa
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-libby-grand-jury-testimony-seven/

Fitz explains that the reason for the break was, the GJ testimony on tape was about to discuss David Sanger, and in reading ahead ("because I have no patience") Fitz had realized some material that should have been redacted was not. So they're fixing that right now.

And away we go…

NOTES: (1) This is not an official transcript — just a very loose paraphrase, at best — so don't treat it as one. Even exchanges that look like verbatim dialogue are just the gist of each question and each answer, with any key phrases or pauses included as best I can. (2) My own notes will be in parentheses and/or italics. (3) I'll tell you the time at the end of each update; expect about 15-20 minutes before the next one. The hamsters that run the servers will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime. (4) I didn't write the book on the Valerie Plame outing — but you should buy it, if you haven't already. If you're wondering who this "Swopa" character is, my previous writings on Plamemania can be found here.

(Fitz brings up Libby talking with David Sanger of the NYT on July 2nd. Shows note saying "talking points - Hardball 7/14, wrong statement," along with others saying "Shapiro - Adam Levine knows," "Eric Sorenson," and "fax a station")

F: Can you clarify these talking points for us

L: First three were points Matthew got wrong, fourth was that Wilson report wasn't definitive, fifth is unclear, maybe that Hadley was told (what?), not Tenet

F: Have you talked to Russert since July 14th & Novak column about uranium/Niger

L: (pause) No

F: Have you talked to him about leak investigation

L: Once, to ask if he would talk to my lawyer

snip

[ralps]

7. ***11:08, 11:23

It's 11:08.

(long discussion of who might have been present during each Libby call on July 12th. Fitz brings up October 12, 2003 Washington Post article.)

F: This article mentions WaPo reporter was called on July 12. You had spoken to Kessler of WaPo on July 12. Did you think article was talking about you?

L: No. Did realize I had talked to reporter on July 12.

F: You didn't think you had told him (quoting from column) that Wilson trip was boondoggle set up by his wife.

L: No, because I said the opposite, we discounted report because findings weren't definitive, nothing about boondoggle

F: But VP had expressed concerns about this, as you say.

L: Our main concerns were other points.

F: I'm not concerned about other points. Was boondoggle one of the points, among others?

L: Actually, Kessler raised it with me (hubbub in media room) Asked me, "was this a boondoggle?"

snip

It's 11:23.

(Tangent about whether Libby told FBI about his phone call — calls? — to Judith Miller; missed his answer)

(Tangent about Andrea Mitchell at Ford birthday party)

(Fitz pulls out WaPo 1×2x6 article)

This article mentions Time magazine story talking about Wilson's wife, and WaPo implied you were a source for the Time article. You showed this to your staff?

L: Yes.

F: And you had spoken to Mr. Cooper, right?

L: Yes.

(Walks through Libby having Cathie Martin chew out Cooper for not using full quote, causing separate July 17 web article — Libby had 1×2x6 article sent to Time with note saying "Have you seen this," but Libby says was just regarding use of full quote)

F: So, three articles — WaPo 1×2x6, and you had talked to Cooper, Miller, and perhaps Kessler before the 14th. And you had spoken to Russert, who had told you about the wife. And you had spoken to Rove Did you think this article — "two WH officials leaked to six reporters" — might be about you?

L: I thought it might be mistakenly referring to me.

snip

[MelissaB]

12. I really appreciate these notes. I'm blocked from FDL at work.

:hi:

[ralps]

15. Hi MelissaB, you're welcome

[ralps]

14. ***11:42

It's 11:42.

F: You say VP tilted his head when you said you learned it from Tim Russert. Did he say, "No, you learned it from me, remember?"

L: No.

F: Did you tell anyone else about talking to those reporters?

L: Well, Cathie Martin knew about Cooper.

(Fitz brings up the haiku Libby wrote for McClellan — "it was ridiculous about Karl, it is ridiculous about Libby," etc.)

F: Why deny leaking classified information, instead of talking about Wilson's wife?

L: Because that's what was being talked about. Perhaps I felt that was what people thought I had done.

F: Did you tell McClellan, "So you're not surprised, I spoke with Cooper, Miller, Kessler," etc.?

L: No.

F: Why not?

L: Thought it was more important to deny being Novak source, and leaking classified info

snip

F: Did you think this was something Pres and VP would want to know? (Fitz continues to grind Libby into the dirt over why he didn't tell VP or Pres. Libby says at some point he asked if Cheney wanted to know more, and VP said, "I don't need to, I know you weren't a source for the leak.)

L: Did tell VP when investigation began

F: What did he say?

L: Didn't say much. Something like, "From me?" and tilted his head.

F: Did you tell him about Cooper, Miller, Kessler?

L: No.

F: And you had another conversation after this?

L: Yes, and again offered to tell him everything, he said he didn't want to know

F: Was this before you were interviewed by FBI?

L: Yes, think all conversations were.

F: Was investigation why Cheney didn't want to know details.

L: Not what he said.

(Fitz shifts to Cheney notes on McClellan haiku… Libby slow to accept that "this Prez" is crossed-out part)

F: What is meat grinder?

L: The fact that press was talking about me

F: And incompetence of others?

L: Uranium claim getting into SOTU in frist place, then early in July, backing off. One or both.

F: Maybe the delay in issuing Tenet statment?

L: I wouldn't have speculated on that.

Time for a break, both on tape and in real life.

It's 12:09. New thread when we come back. 39 minutes of tape left.

[merh]

8. oh, I love being the 5th vote!

:hi:

[ralps]

10. Hi merh, Thanks. How are you all doing?

[merh]

18. I'm hanging in there ralps!!

How have you been?

Thanks for these threads, I love 'em.

:hi: :woohoo: :toast: :pals: :hug: :loveya:

[ralps]

20. I'm doing ok, & you're welcome

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

9. K&R Thanks Ralps! nt

[ralps]

11. Hi OnceUponTimeOnTheNet, Thanks

[H2O Man]

13. Great day

for the prosecution.

Sucks to be the defendant, a fellow who enjoyed operating out of the shadows, and now having these tapes being played.

[ralps]

16. Hi H2O Man! Yes, it sucks to be Libby today!

[Cerridwen]

17. 'Mornin, ralps...

Normally I'm uncomfortable with experiencing delight at other's misfortune. Today, not so much.

There go my karma points.

:)

[ralps]

19. Hi Cerridwen, Godd Morning! LOL there go my karma points too!

:rofl:

[ralps]

21. I have to leave for a while, if someone wants to post the new FDL libby thread

that would be cool! I'll bookmark this thread & check it out when I get back.

[Cerridwen]

23. I'll pitch in as able....me and my trusty itchy posting finger. LOL...n/t

[Annces]

22. Libby talking to Cheney and Cheney tilts head

Tilts head, like so this is the spin?


F: So when October comes around and headlines are saying two officials may have called six reporters, did VP understand that you had called reporters and discussed Wilson's wife?

L: (quietly) I don't recall

F: In late September or October, did you bring it to VP's attention?

L: Went to him and said I didn't talk to Novak, added I learned about it from Tim Russert. He tilted his head a bit. I may have said that I talked to other reporters.

F: You're not sure?

L: I don't recall. What was important was telling him I did not leak to Novak, and I heard it from Russert, who said all reporters knew it.

It's 11:42.

F: You say VP tilted his head when you said you learned it from Tim Russert. Did he say, "No, you learned it from me, remember?"

L: No.

F: Did you tell anyone else about talking to those reporters?

L: Well, Cathie Martin knew about Cooper.

(Fitz brings up the haiku Libby wrote for McClellan — "it was ridiculous about Karl, it is ridiculous about Libby," etc.)

F: Why deny leaking classified information, instead of talking about Wilson's wife?

L: Because that's what was being talked about. Perhaps I felt that was what people thought I had done.

F: Did you tell McClellan, "So you're not surprised, I spoke with Cooper, Miller, Kessler," etc.?

L: No.

F: Why not?

L: Thought it was more important to deny being Novak source, and leaking classified info

F: Did you tell President?

L: No.

F: As far as you know now, does President know you talked to those reporters?

L: I don't think so

F: And you never told VP?

L: I'm not sure.

F: You were precise in telling him you weren't source for Novak, but not precise saying you weren't source for others

N: I'm not sure

F: Did you think this was something Pres and VP would want to know? (Fitz continues to grind Libby into the dirt over why he didn't tell VP or Pres. Libby says at some point he asked if Cheney wanted to know more, and VP said, "I don't need to, I know you weren't a source for the leak.)

L: Did tell VP when investigation began

F: What did he say?

L: Didn't say much. Something like, "From me?" and tilted his head.

F: Did you tell him about Cooper, Miller, Kessler?

L: No.

F: And you had another conversation after this?

L: Yes, and again offered to tell him everything, he said he didn't want to know

F: Was this before you were interviewed by FBI?

L: Yes, think all conversations were.

F: Was investigation why Cheney didn't want to know details.

L: Not what he said.

(Fitz shifts to Cheney notes on McClellan haiku… Libby slow to accept that "this Prez" is crossed-out part)

F: What is meat grinder?

L: The fact that press was talking about me

[Cerridwen]

24. *** Back from "lunch break" that didn't happen

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-libby-grand-jury-testimony-eight/

Surprise! Welcome to tape-delayed live-blogging. No sooner did Christy's post go up than it turned out we weren't really free for lunch after all — Judge Walton decided to finish off the Libby grand jury testimony, followed by lunch, various minor matters, and then (drumroll) Tim Russert.

By the time you read this, I'll already be at lunch. Enjoy…

<snip>

Following a defense request at the last break, Walton emphasizes to jury that Fitz's GJ questions are NOT evidence any more than the questions in court are, so don't try to read into them.

We're back on the tapes now, still with McClellan and the meat grinder.

F: What do you understand "asked to stick his neck in the meat grinder" to mean?

L: (long pause) don't know specifically, I suppose that I was asked to talk to deal with press on this issue, should have either kept uranium out of SOTU or had it better documented.

F: So your interpretation — knowing that you didn't write this — is that incompetence on SOTU forced you to deal with press, and now you were having to be cleared ?

L: (agrees, more or less)

F: Does dealing with the press mean you being the spokesperson on July 12, by Cheney's request?

L: Don't know if I'd say that.

[Cerridwen]

25. This part made my LOL

(Now there's a very long, painstaking discussion about what Libby understands to be classified, including insta-declassification, whether a leak to the press makes something non-classified — Libby says no, it's still not to be talked about — and whether CIA employees are assumed to be classified. Libby says he knows CIA people socially, he plays softball & football with them, they tell everyone at the game they work for CIA.)

F: But you were told this by the VP of the US, not at a football game.

L: Didn't have a sense that it was classified.

F: So you forgot that you learned this, thought it was new information when Russert told you, didn't remember until you saw note about VP and wife in CPD, but you have a recollection of sensing that it wasn't classified? (someone laughs in press room — um, me actually. Sorry, everybody…) (emphasis added by Cerridwen who is also LOL)

[Cerridwen]

26. *** Now is the lunch break - back about 2:15-2:30 ET if no delays

F: Ever talk to a person named David Shedd? (paging David Corn!)

L: Have talked to him about a lot of things, but don't recall specifically about Wilson

F: VP ever talk to him about Wilson, Niger, or uranium

L: Don't know, maybe on the margins of a meeting.

… and with that, the grand jury testimony ends. Lunch time! Festivities to resume here between 2:15-2:30 pm ET, unless there are delays…

[caligirl]

31. still waiting over at FDL for Timmy to take the stand.

[Spazito]

27. Oh my, this may be VERY interesting....

From firedoglake live blogging, note this is not an official transcript but is very close, imo:

SNIP

F: Ever talk to a person named David Shedd? (paging David Corn!)

L: Have talked to him about a lot of things, but don't recall specifically about Wilson

F: VP ever talk to him about Wilson, Niger, or uranium

L: Don't know, maybe on the margins of a meeting.

END SNIP

Here is a David Corn article, dated August 4, 2005, on David Shedd:

In October 2003, I wrote a piece entitled "I Am No Novak" in which I noted that there was one White House staffer, a fellow who was not known to the public, whom the Plame leak special prosecutor ought to interview. This person was then working on the National Security Council staff on nonproliferation matters. What made him special was that prior to that assignment, he had worked with Valerie Wilson at the CIA. I wrote:

This NSC staffer might--I emphasize, might--play a role in the Wilson leak scandal. I know of no reason to suspect he or she is one of the leakers. (A recent Newsweek story referred to this NSCer, but it did not name the staffer.) But perhaps this individual--whom I was told is a CIA officer assigned to the NSC--mentioned Valerie Wilson's CIA connection to one or more White House colleagues during the period in which Joseph Wilson was causing the White House discomfort....Consequently, investigators probing the Wilson leak ought to ask this NSC officer--if they have not already done so--whether he or she talked about Valerie Wilson with anyone in the White House? If the Justice Department investigators can figure out how individuals in the White House came to know about Wilson's wife (if they did), then the gumshoes might be able to find a trail leading to the leakers.

snip

I did not name the individual because I did not want to engage in Rove-like conduct. (Hence, the headline of my article.) But now it can be told: the name of this NSC staffer is David Shedd. And he no longer is undercover. Larry Johnson, former CIA analyst and current Valerie Wilson champion, shared with me today an interesting fact. On June 23, 2005, Facts on File World News Digest published a short item that disclosed Shedd's CIA affiliation. It reads:

snip

Negroponte May 6 had made appointments to four senior positions within his office. They were CIA veteran and National Security Council staff member David Shedd, named Negroponte's associate director and chief of staff.

more, MUCH more!

http://www.davidcorn.com/archives/2005/08/rove_scandal_th.php


Boy, my antenae have started quivering when reading Mr. Shedd's name being raised by Fitzgerald then reading Mr. Corn's article!

[Cerridwen]

28. Thanks, Spazito!

I knew someone would fill in some content on that snippet.

[Spazito]

29. You're very welcome! I think this name, the question asked

may well be key as to why there is the belief that Fitzgerald already knows the name of THE original leaker but, due to Libby's "sand in the umpire's face" moves, uncovering the clear evidence, the evidence trail to this original leaker was curtailed (pure speculation on my part but, to me, makes sense).

I had never run across Mr. Shedd's name in connection to the leak before today's GJ testimony which immediately raised my "curiosity" and the notation by "Swopa" at firedoglake "paging David Corn" told me I needed to search immediately, lol.

Thanks to ralps, yet again, for doing these threads, they are invaluable, imo!

[Cerridwen]

30. I agree! Kudos to ralps!!!

:applause: :applause:

:yourock: :yourock:

[ralps]

66. Hi Spatizo, Thanks for posting that!!!

:yourock:

[Cerridwen]

32. 2:30 p ET ******* Libby Live: Tim Russert, One *******

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-tim-russert-one/

We begin with some preliminary Fitz-versus-Wells squabbling over whether Tim Russert can be asked about Andrea Mitchell's statement (which she later disavowed) that Valerie Plame Wilson's CIA employment was "generally known" in certain press circles, since he's commented on TV about it. Fitz says "there's no TV exception to the hearsay rule," but Wells insists that his reasons and manner of asking will be justified, so please don't rule against him before he can present related evidence. Walton seems a bit bemused and is willing to wait and see.

F: The government calls Tim Russert.

(Tim is sworn in, takes his seat, gives his name)

F: To end the mystery, how long have you been on crutches?

T: Ten weeks, broken ankle.

(Fitz asks for Tim's educational and work history)

It's 2:30.

[H2O Man]

33. Show time.

This should be interesting.

[Cerridwen]

34. I hope so...I surely do hope so. :D...n/t

[Cerridwen]

35. Quick reminder while we wait for next update...

NOTES: (1) This is not an official transcript — just a very loose paraphrase, at best — so don't treat it as one. Even exchanges that look like verbatim dialogue are just the gist of each question and each answer, with any key phrases or pauses included as best I can. (2) My own notes will be in parentheses and/or italics. (3) I'll tell you the time at the end of each update; expect about 15-20 minutes before the next one. The hamsters that run the servers <at FDL, not DU. Cerridwen> will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime. (4) I didn't write the book on the Valerie Plame outing — but you should buy it, if you haven't already. If you're wondering who this "Swopa" character is, my previous writings on Plamemania can be found here. (note from Cerridwen: please, note bolded)

[Cerridwen]

36. *** 2:48p ET update

edit to note this is wells cross-examining russert - Fitzgerald's questioning was short (relatively speaking)

(More questions like this — ever met his kids, gone to relationship, sporting events, etc. Tim says no.)

W: Even your professional relationship is limited, right?

T: Just meeting when VP is on MTP, etc.

W: You are not indebted to Libby in any way, right?

T: Right.

W: You have never indicated that you would assist Libby in telling a false story to the FBI, right?

T: Right.

W: Do you accept characterization that he called you as a viewer?

T: Well, I don't normally take complaint calls. (this is a paraphrased exchange, not quite so glib in reality)

W: He did not call as a source, though.

T: Right.

(Wells feels this is worth writing on a display.)

W: He called you in your managerial capacity of NBC News, right?

T: I didn't know it at first, but yes.

(Wells writes this down, too.)

It's 2:48.

[Cerridwen]

37. "libby was upset" - this caught my attention

T: I was in my office, call came through, he was agitated about something he had seen on Hardball. I had not seen the program.

F: What programs?

T: I was later able to learn, Jul. 8th and 9th.

F: Did he call you often?

T: No.

F: How could you tell he was upset? What did he say?

T: "What the hell is going on with Hardball?" "I'm tired of hearing my name on the air all the time." "What he's saying isn't true."

F: What did you tell him?

T: I said it wasn't my responsibility, so I gave him names (list them)

F: At any time did you discuss the wife of Joseph Wilson?

T: No, because I didn't know who she was until several days later

F: Did Libby ever tell you?

T: No.

[Lex]

41. "I'm tired of hearing my name on the air all the time."

Wow, they can just call up the news shows and suggest to them to stop reporting. Jesus.

[Cerridwen]

38. *** 3:02p update - Wells x-examines russert

T: Was complaining about program I hadn't seen, so I did

W: Wouldn't have been natural for you to ask, though?

T: Wasn't a natural phone call. Never had one like that from such a high official, complaining and agitated.

W: But such an aggressive journalist, such a big story

T: What I said is what happened.

W: Do you have a present recollection of not discussing Wilson's wife, are you just reasoning backwards from the fact that you did not know about her until Novak's column.

T: I have no recollection, but it would have been impossible.

It's 3:02. (bolded is my input - Cerridwen)

[Cerridwen]

43. Another snippet in an attempt to save FDL servers...:D

It's 3:02.

W: Conversation was in July 2003, right?

T: Yes.

W: First interview with FBI was four months later, right?

T: Right.

W: You have no notes of the conversation, right?

T: Right.

W: No contemporary documentation of the call, right?

T: Right.

W: You don't even recall if it was one or two calls, right?

T: I just remember one call.

W: Do you recall telling the FBI it might have been one, or two?

T: I just remember one call, no recollection of a second one.

(Wells shows Tim his FBI interview.)

[Duer 157099]

39. I've forgotten -- what was it on Hardball that had Libby all a-twitter?

It's gone down the brain hole... what was it?

[Cerridwen]

42. I'm not that conversant in this issue so I hope one of the Plameologists

hops in with an answer.

[H2O Man]

45. What upset Libby

was Chris Matthews reporting on the Wilson trip to Niger, and the OVP ignoring his report that the Niger story was bullshit. More, Matthews mentioned Libby by name -- on July 8, for example, saying that he believed someone in the OVP had pushed the inclusion of the "16 words" in the state of the union speech, "probably from Scooter Libby."

[Cerridwen]

47. Thank you, sir.

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

49. Thanks H2O Man. Is there a link to a transcript of that

that you know of?

I really need to refresh my memory of the "Plame Timeline" -- is there any that you know of that includes all of what is currently known?

Thanks...

[H2O Man]

51. A couple of

days ago, I posted a thread with a lot of the Matthews' quotes from specific reports. It is "Why Matthews Matters," and can be found on my DU blog and in the DU research forum. They can be found on the MSNBC transcripts; I often look through Hardball and Countdown for valuable information. The one I just used is from the transcripts, and is also found in Corn & Isikoff's book "Hubris."

[Duer 157099]

54. OK, I'll have to go find and bookmark those, thanks n/t

[Spazito]

48. Here is some info on that ....

From the New York Times, October 31, 2005

TV Newsman Is His Own News in the Leak Case

SNIP

On "Hardball" on July 8, 2003, for example, Mr. Matthews blamed Mr. Libby and others in the White House for failing to warn President Bush that a reference in his State of the Union speech that winter about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger was wrong. Mr. Wilson, a former ambassador to Gabon, had just published an Op-Ed article in The New York Times in which he said he had been sent to Niger by the C.I.A. the previous year to investigate an intelligence report about a possible uranium sale, and concluded that it was "highly doubtful."

Mr. Matthews said on the air, "Somebody's to blame here, and it's a very high level."

Mr. Libby testified to the grand jury about his conversation with Mr. Russert on March 5 and March 24 last year, and Mr. Russert was subpoenaed in May. NBC issued a statement at the time saying, "Russert was not the recipient of the leak," and vowed to fight the subpoena in federal court because of what it said was the potential chilling effect on its ability to cover the news. On July 20, 2004, the court rejected the network's arguments (although it did not make the decision public until Aug. 9) and on Aug. 7 Mr. Russert answered "limited questions" posed by Mr. Fitzgerald, an NBC statement said at the time.


END of SNIP

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/31/politics/31russert.html?ei=5088&en=ca8618ec9f757b1d&ex=1288414800&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Hope this helps.

[Duer 157099]

53. Thanks Spazito

Now, can anyone date this Cheney memo (was an exhibit on Jan 30th):

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/exhibits/0130/GX53201.PDF

[Spazito]

58. There may be some date-specific testimony on....

firedoglake as this was a line of questioning when Addington was on the stand, I will go back and check after today's live blogging of the trial ends so I don't add to the current strain on their servers if someone else hasn't posted the info you want by then.

[Duer 157099]

63. I was just looking through that, but so far don't see a date

It will probably have to be extrapolated from when Scotty exhonerated Karl... I'm sure some blogger out there has connected those dots (if it's not in the trial blog itself).

[Duer 157099]

67. It's Sept/Oct 2003

Although still can't get specific date, but that's ok.

I'm trying to figure out what had Scooter so peeved during his phone call to Russert -- had Karl already declared that he was going to point his finger at Cheney/Libby, and this was why the Matthews thing had him so upset?

Karl is just so slimy

[Spazito]

69. It was after October 1, 2003 and before October 7, 2003

Scotty's press gaggle on Oct 1, 2003, where he defends Rove but not Libby:


http://wid.ap.org/documents/libbytrial/feb1/GX418.pdf

Scotty's Press briefing on Oct 7. 2003 where he is asked for mor detail on why he was sure Rove, Libby and Abrams didn't leak:

http://wid.ap.org/documents/libbytrial/feb1/GX421t.pdf

[Cerridwen]

40. *** 3:21p ET - update

Servers at FDL appear to be really getting jammed - I'll try to post more snippets so you don't have to go over there and fight the traffic. - Cerridwen (your substitute poster until ralps returns :D)

NOTES: (1) This is not an official transcript — just a very loose paraphrase, at best — so don't treat it as one. Even exchanges that look like verbatim dialogue are just the gist of each question and each answer, with any key phrases or pauses included as best I can. (2) My own notes will be in parentheses and/or italics. (3) I'll tell you the time at the end of each update; expect about 15-20 minutes before the next one. The hamsters that run the servers will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime.

<snip>

W: Part of the "buzz" around Joe Wilson was about his trip to Niger and his wife's employment, right?

T: There was a pre- and post-Novak buzz… after the Novak column, it took on a new dimension,

W: (confusing question)

T: I don't know what that means, but I know that I didn't know about Wilson's wife. That is a significant fact that I would have reported and investigated.

W: When was the first time that you reported

T: I didn't report on it, but we worked diligently on it and debated after Novak column whether we would discuss it.

W: You didn't pursue it right away?

T: We took national security considerations seriously.

W: It was basically public knowledge, not a secret

T: That was very much debated.

W: (pause) After you deposition with Mr. Fitzgerald, NBC released a statement.

(Wells shows statement to Russert)

It's 3:21. Switching to a new thread.

[Cerridwen]

44. dupe - now my computer's hiccuping LOL...n/t

[Duer 157099]

46. from the 3:21 portion of today's FDL entertainment:

quote:

W: Conversation was in July 2003, right?

T: Yes.

W: First interview with FBI was four months later, right?

T: Right.

W: You have no notes of the conversation, right?

T: Right.

W: No contemporary documentation of the call, right?

T: Right.

W: You don't even recall if it was one or two calls, right?

T: I just remember one call.

W: Do you recall telling the FBI it might have been one, or two?

T: I just remember one call, no recollection of a second one.

(Wells shows Tim his FBI interview.)

T: I just remember one call, not the second.

W: You don't recall the date of the call.

T: Right.

W: Did you tell the FBI that you could not rule out absolutely that you talked about Wilson's wife?

T:

W: Did you tell FBI in November 2003 that you have many conversations and that it is hard to reconstruct one from several months ago?

T: I may have.

W: Is that your opinion now?

T: Yes.

[Duer 157099]

50. Here's the thing

Even though the above section seems to cast doubt on Russert's reliability on this matter (his specific memory of *the* phone call), just thinking for a moment about the scenario makes it ridiculous to consider that Russert indeed knew about Plame at that point! I think we can all identify with the situation where we may not remember the details of a conversation or an event, but we indeed know that certain things did or didn't happen based on a logical examination of what it would have meant (that is, Russert could claim that he didn't even remember talking to Libby that day, and the phone records could prove that he did, and yet that would have absolutely no bearing on whether he knew about Plame *on that day*.

I believe that had Russert known about Plame at that point, he would have KNOWN that he knew. He (they) make the point well, that it was an important fact at the time.

[Cerridwen]

52. *** 3:45p ET - update

Libby Live: Tim Russert, Two
By: Swopa

Wells walks Russert through the NBC statement on his deposition for the grand jury. I denies that Russert (1) received a leak about Valerie Wilson, (2) knew her name or that she was a CIA operative, and (3) that he gave the information in (2) to Libby.



(Wells tries to get Russert to admit that he didn't deny knowing Joe Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Russert insists that denial of name and CIA operative status DID deny this. Several go-rounds on this with same result, followed by a break.)

W: You wrote a letter to Buffalo News in June 2004 expressing regret for not recalling a telephone call to a reporter

T: I'd like to see the letter, because it involved a larger

W: Are you telling the jury you don't recall the letter?

T: That was a piece of it, but I don't remember the whole exchange

W: (refusing to let Russert see letter yet) Do you recall the letter?

T: Do you recall the letter but not the specifics

W: Do you write letters to newspapers apologizing for a faulty memory often?

T: No.

W: But you did write such a letter to the Buffalo News?

T: That was part of the letter.

W: But it was in the letter?

T: Could I see the letter?

W: I'm not going to let you see the letter yet. Do you remember the letter (describes it again, emphasizing faulty recollection)?

T: I do, but not the specifics.

(More back-and-forth like this.)

It's 3:45.

Gee, can you tell where this is going? I guess timmy's on trial now for *his* faulty memory?

[ralps]

55. *** New Thread at Firedoglake.com- Libby Live: Tim Russert, Two

Libby Live: Tim Russert, Two
By: Swopa
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-tim-russert-two/
Dupe Thanks a lot Everyone!!
:yourock: :woohoo:

[Cerridwen]

56. Hey, ralps! Welcome back - 'tis all yours......:D....n/t

[ralps]

57. Thanks a lot Cerridwen!

:yourock: :woohoo:

[Cerridwen]

61. You're welcome. Glad I could help out....eom

[ralps]

64. ***3:45

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/07/libby-live-tim-russert-two/

It's 3:45.

(Wells displays the letter Russert wrote, acknowledging a forgotten phone call.)

W: In a later interview with Howard Kurtz, you said you had just plain forgotten this phone call.

T: Yes.

W: I want to go through some of the background facts. Kurtz had asked about the newspaper's negative review of your conduct as moderator of a debate, right? And he asked if you had placed a call to the author to complain about the review, and you denied the phone call. (gets Russert to say yes at various steps along the way) The newspaper later challenged this denial in an article titled, "Tim, Don't You Remember?"

T: Yes.

W: When you denied making the phone call, do you feel you were giving your opinion in good faith?

T: Yes.

W: You weren't trying to lie, you were

T: Right.

W: You were confident in your recollection?

T: I'd like to know what I said. I did recall sending a letter to Mr. Sommers, and you saw the result of it.

W: You checked documentation to correct your recollection of the phone call… you do not have any documention of your conversation with Mr. Libby, do you?

T: No.

snip

[ralps]

65. ***4:00

It's 4:00.

(Wells asks questions about newspaper's criticism of Russert — how did he feel about writer, etc. Russert tries to emphasize that he was just disagreeing over facts.)

W: But in talking to Howard Kurtz, you just completely misrecollected the events, didn't you?

T: The main thing was a disagreement over facts, which I recalled accurately.

W: It's fair to say the faulty recollection was well-publicized… anyone could find out about it in 2007 in an Internet search?

T: I suppose. I don't know the state of Lexis-Nexis, etc.

A conference at Chez Walton. Wells enters the "Tim, Don't You Remember" article into evidence, and a separate Buffalo News article on the controversy.

W: I'm going to move to a different area. I want to ask you about your FBI interview in Nov 2003 You were at home? Person who called you was Jack Eckenrode?

T: Yes.

W: He said it was a national security investigation, and he wanted your help?

T: Don't recall those words.

W: Did he say it was a criminal

T: Don't recall those exact words.

W: You said Plame leak was "a big deal", do you recall that?

T: Yes.

W: So when FBI agent said he was investigating that, you don't that?

T: He said that later.

W: Tell me what he said.

T: He introduced himself, said we at met on Meet the Press (describes him bringing his family, etc.), then said he was calling

snip

W: You did not refuse to answer questions of FBI agent about conv with Libby

T: I did talk to him, yes

W: You did not state that there was an understanding that the call would be in confidence

T: Right, because he was relaying things to me that Libby had said about the call

W: You talked about both sides of conversation

T: Repeated what he had said to give context to what I said

W: Similar to your GJ testimony in 2004, right?

T: Yes

W: And you did not claim any privilege of confidentiality?

T: I had treated the conversation in confidence, I did not report on the call. (He's not understanding Wells' point)

W: Did you know that Eckinrode was portraying Libby's side of the conversation accurately?

T: I didn't doubt him.

It's 4:24.

[ralps]

68. ***4:24

It's 4:24.

Wells displays letters from Fitzgerard to NBC attorneys explaining why they want Russert's testimony, and possible limits to protect journalistic privileges.

W: Do you remember NBC claiming they were fighting the subpoena due to chilling effect on their news gathering?

T: Yes, generally speaking

Wells displays NBC statement.

W: This statement does not discuss your Nov 2003 FBI interview, when you discussed the Libby conversation freely?

T: Right

W: Was NBC president Neal Shapiro know this?

T: Don't know

W: Did there come a time when Shapiro?

T: Don't know, can't speak for him

W: Did you ever have a conversation with him?

T: Can't recall.

W: (like he's addressing a child) Do you think it might have happened? Based on your pattern and practice?

T: I don't know if I talked to him directly, I talked to counsel in NY, they may have talked to him

W: You're good friends with Shapiro?

T: Yes

W: This was a matter of great importance, right?

T: Any time a reporter is subpoenaed, yes.

W: Did you discuss this important matter with the president of NBC and your good friend, Mr. Shapiro?

T: Just remember talking to attorney

W: Do you recall telling Andrea Mitchell?

T: No.

W: David Gregory?

T: No.

It's 4:40.

[ralps]

70. ***4:40

It's 4:40.

Wells submits as evidence, and displays, a declaration by Russert filed with court. Paragraph 5 emphasizes that an essential part of his job is keeping conversations with government officials confidential, that he will not discuss identities or information publicly.

W: You are swearing that you will not release confidential information freely, right?

T: It depends on the nature of the conversation

Wells continues reading from the document. Quotes Paragraph 6, which specifically says Russert cannot testify about Libby conversation without violating confidentiality.

W: That's what you're saying to Judge Hogan under oath?

T: That it would have a chilling effect, yes.

W: You're saying under oath that you can't even confirm that

T: As a journalist, I didn't want to do it, correct.

W: Not just didn't want to, you can't do it, correct?

T: Correct.

W: You don't say that you had already talked to this to Agent Eckenrode in Nov 2003.

T: There is no mention of it.

W: You had already disclosed the substance of the conversation

T: There's a difference

W: But this does not say you had confirmed the existence of the conversation, and the content of it as well.

T: Correct.

snip

W: Are statements to Judge Hogan true or false?

T: So you violated these statements when you talked to Eckenrode.

T The focus was on my words at that time, and Libby's viewer complaint was not in any way confidential. As is my policy, I did not report on them.

W: So why say you can't talk about the same conversation?

T: We did not want to get involved in an open-ended fishing expedition.

W: (Accuses Russert of making a false statement to federal judge)

T: I just talked to Eckenrode about my side of the conversation

W: You talked to him about both sides of the conversation

T: I listened to him describe Libby's side.

Walton calls a truce recess for the evening. He also makes a statement that the prosecution does NOT contend that Libby did anything wrong in talking about the National Intelligence Estimate on July 8, 2003 or thereafter, "after it had been declassified by the president." So now you know.

Prosecution is expected to end its case tomorrow morning… and defense wants to start with Jill Abramson, but Fitzgerald has an objection to that. So that objection will be addressed first. The defense says they'll be happy to start Monday, given various motions they have to submit first, and they don't want to waste jury's time. Fitz says they can start with other witnesses — "Pincus, Thomas, Kessler, Sanger…" I don't think this will be resolved until tomorrow morning.

And with that, school is out. Goodnight!

I'll see you all Tomorrow!

[Annces]

59. Wells trying to show Russert has forgotten other phone calls

Not much of a defense.

[H2O Man]

60. Sad.

I hope they don't go back to when Tim was in the 7th grade, and forgot to do his homework.

[Cerridwen]

62. From 4 years ago? Desperate move.

I'm pretty sure the jury is aware that people forget things all the time. I'm also pretty sure most of us are pretty sure we'd remember (purposely) leaking classified information.

[Jack Rabbit]

71. More to the point

If I were a juror, I would expect Libby to remember whether he first heard about Valerie Plame working for the CIA incidently from a TV personality or from the Vice President of the United States with instructions to leak the information to the press.

Libby is toast and so is Cheney.

[G_Leo_Criley]

72. "Libby is toast and so is Cheney."

Amen.


:kick:

glc