Email I just received from a fundie: ie paryer in school, and my reply

[liberal N proud]

Here is an email that a fundie sent me regarding prayer in school with my reply at the end...

Subject: Teacher Applicant

After being interviewed by the school
administration, the teaching prospect
said, "Let me see if I've got this right:

You want me to go into that room with all those
kids, correct their
disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of
abuse, monitor their dress
habits, censor their T-shirt messages, and instill
in them a love for
learning.

You want me to check their backpacks for
weapons, wage war on drugs and
sexually transmitted diseases, and raise their
sense of self esteem and
personal pride.

You want me to teach them patriotism and good
citizenship, sportsmanship and
fair play, and how to register to vote, balance a
checkbook, and apply for a
job.

You want me to check their heads for lice,
recognize signs of antisocial
behavior, and make sure that they all pass the
state exams.

You want me to provide them with an equal
education regardless of their
handicaps, and communicate regularly with their
parents by letter,
telephone, newsletter, and report card.

You want me to do all this with a piece of chalk,
a blackboard, a bulletin
board, a few books, a big smile, and a starting
salary that qualifies me
for food stamps.

You want me to do all this and then you tell
me........"I CAN'T PRAY?"

Here was my reply:
There is nothing stopping them from praying, only leading an organized
prayer.
Let me ask, if there were organized prayer in public school, who would
decide what that prayer would be?
Lutheran, Baptist, Christian, Presbyterian, Catholic, Jewish, Islam, Hindu,
or Budest? The problem with a nation that does not discriminate against
religion is that it also must be careful not to force a single religion upon
those who do not wish to participate in that or any religion.
The story had me up to that line. I believe in prayer, I just can't force
anyone else to to do it.

[Warpy]

1. The only other thing you could have added

was the admonition to pray secretly, in a closet, not like the hypocrites on the street corners.

[Nikki Stone1]

2. Went to Catholic school. Prayed 4 times a day: morning, lunch, after lunch, dismissal

Went to mass Thursdays during Lent, stations of the cross, and confession before major feasts of the church: all during school hours, usually during math. (sadly)

Kids were still bastard assholes. Still drank, smoked, swore, had sex and (some) did drugs in high school.

Think about the fact that O'Lielly and Hannity both went to Catholic school. Clearly school prayer never transformed them into truth tellers.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Excellent answer!

Actually, when I taught school, I did talk about the different way people parayed. I had a tape of Hindu chants, and taught a Buddhist dance honoring Quan Yin, and demonstrated how Muslims pray. I did this as culture, and did not say one way was better than another--just that people who worship have different ways of doing so, just as people from different countries eat different foods (we cooked everything from couscous to snails, so the kids knew I spoke the truth!)

[Bigmack]

4. Send this....

Dear (Fundie Name),
    As you know, we've been working real hard in our town to get prayer back
in the schools.  Finally, the school board approved a plan of teacher-led
prayer with the children participating at their own option.  Children not
wishing to participate were to be allowed to stand out in the hallway during
the prayer time.  We hoped someone would sue us so we could go all the way to
the Supreme Court and get that old devil-inspired ruling reversed.
    Naturally, we were all excited by the school board's action.  As you
know, our own little Billy (not so little, any more, though) is now in the
second grade.  Of course, Margaret and I explained to him no matter what the
other kids did, he was going to stay in the classroom and participate.
    After the first day of school, I asked him, "How did the prayer time go?"
    "Fine."
    "Did many kids go out into the hallway?"
    "Two."
    "Excellent.  How did you like your teacher's prayer?"
    "It was different, Dad.  Real different from the way you pray."
    "Oh? Like how?"
    "She said, 'Hail, Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners...'"
    The next day I talked with the principal.  I politely explained I wasn't
prejudice against Catholics but I would appreciate Billy being transferred to
a non-Catholic teacher.  The principal said it would be done right away.
    At supper that evening I asked Billy to say the blessings.  He slipped
out of his chair, sat cross-legged on the floor, closed his eyes, raised his
hands palms up and began to hum.
    You'd better believe I was at the principal's office at eight o'clock the next morning.
"Look," I said.  "I don't really know much about these Transcendental Meditationists,
but I would feel a lot more comfortable if you could move Billy to a room where the
teacher practices and older, more established religion.'"
    That afternoon I met Billy as soon as he walked in the door after school.
    "I don't think your going to like Mrs. Nakasone's prayer, either, Dad."
    "Out with it."
    "She kept calling God 'O Great Budda...'"
    The following morning I was waiting for the principal in the school parking lot.
"Look, I don't want my son praying to the Eternal Spirit of whatever or to Buddha.
I want him to have a teacher that prays in Jesus'  name!"
    "What about Bertha Smith?"
    "Excellent."
    I could hardly wait to hear about Mrs. Smith's prayer.  I was standing on
the front steps of the school when the final bell rang.
"Well?" I asked Billy as we walked towards the car.
    "Okay."
    "Okay what?"
    "Mrs. Smith asked God to bless us and ended her prayer in Jesus name, amen - just like you."
    I breathed a sigh of relief.  "Now we're getting some place."
    "She even taught us a verse of scripture about prayer," said Billy.
    I beamed.  "Wonderful.  What was the verse?"
    "Let's see..." he mused for a moment.  " 'And behold, they began to pray;
and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.'"
    We had reached the car.  "Fantastic," I said, reaching for the door handle.  Then I paused.
I couldn't place the scripture.  "Billy, did Mrs. Smith say what book that verse was from?"
    "Third Nephi, chapter 19, verse 18."
    "Third what?"
    "Nephi," he said, "It's in the Book of Mormon."
    The school board doesn't meet for a month.  I've given Billy very definite instructions that
at prayer time each day he's to go out into the hallway.  I plan to be at that board meeting.
If they don't do something about this situation, I'll sue.  I'll take it all the way to the Supreme
Court if I have to.  I don't need the schools or anybody else teaching my son about religion.
We can take care of that ourselves at home and at church, thank you very much.
    Give my love to Sandi and the boys.
                                    Your buddy,
                                               Juan

[dflprincess]

5. A long time ago, back before the Supreme Court's decision on school prayer

when I was in first or second grade at public school, the nun at my weekly Catechism class told us that we were not to say the prayer that was currently being used in the New York State Schools because it was not a "Catholic" prayer. She said we stood stand silently and say an Our Father or Hail Mary to ourselves. The next day, when it came time to pray, every little Catholic kid in my class (and I'd guess that was nearly half of us) nervously cast sneaky looks at each other to see what the other Catholics were doing... As far as I recall we all said the Board of Regents prayer, I know I did and the kid behind me did.

It's a terrible thing to be 6 or 7 years old and find out you don't have what it takes to be a martyr to the faith - I mean if you're too chicken not to say the public school prayer - how will you stand up to the Communists when they demand you renounce your faith? (This was another scenario the nuns would come up with in those days.)

[Hekate]

6. Excellent! I'm filing that for future use!

Very well done indeed.

Hekate

[liberal N proud]

7. I will send it to him in a couple of days

Just to see if he responds.