Can someone help confirm or debunk chain e-mail from wingnut in-law?

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

OK - so I admit I have not closely followed the immigration debate as it does not affect my life as much as other issues I consider myself progressive on. A such, I was a tad confused when I received the following this morning. I've Googled the subject of SS benefits for illegal/undocumented aliens who never paid into the the system - but can't find anything more recent that back in 2006. I understand the amnesty debate - but I had not heard about SS benefits to undocumented who never paid in.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It does not matter if you personally like or dislike Bush. You need to
sign this petition and flood his e-mail box with e-mails that tell him that,
even if the House passes this bill, he needs to veto it. It is already
impossible to live on Social Security alone. If the government gives
benefits to "illegal" aliens who have never contributed, where does that
leave those of us who have paid into Social Security all our working lives?
As stated below, the Senate voted this week to allow "illegal" aliens access
to Social Security benefits. Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition
that requires citizenship for eligibility to that social service. You can
Agree or Delete. Instructions are below. PETITION for President Bush:


Dear Mr. President: We, the undersigned, protest the bill that the
Senate voted upon recently which would allow illegal aliens to access
our Social Security. We demand that you and all Congressional
Representatives require citizenship as a prerequisite for Social
Security benefits in the United States . We further demand that there not be any
amnesty given to illegals, NO Free services, no funding, no payments to
and for illegal immigrants. We are fed up with the lack of action about
this matter and are tired of "paying" for services to illegals!


Instructions to sign are at the bottom.
1. Mary Takami , CA
2. Connie Dodd CA
3. etc, etc... more names including my wingnut inlaws

Please sign and pass this along

INSTRUCTIONS: If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we
Will lose all these names. If you do not want to sign it, please just
forward It to everyone you know. Thank you! To add your name, click on
"forward" or better yet, "copy and paste" if you know how. You will be
able to add your name at the bottom of the list and then forward it to
your friends.0 When the petition hits 1,000, send it to
[e-mail] Thank you

[meegbear]

1. Status: Ineffective

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/petition.asp

While not the original, you can see that it's a bastardization.

[Warpy]

2. Not only is Snopes on the case, but the bozo

who generated this spam failed to note that it's the GOP insisting illegals get Social Security. They want to break the system any way they can, and bankrupting it is just one of those ways.

[havocmom]

6. Seem to recall workers in the day of "Braceros" paid into the system

and that $$ was supposed to go into accounts for them in Mexico. Not too long ago, there was some news about the workers, now old, wondering where their benefits are.

Did US employers REALLY pay the $$ they withheld (along with the contributions employers are supposed to make) into the special fund for Bracero retirement benefits? Did somebody in Mexico's government swipe the $$??

Has anybody heard any more about the situation? These people worked in a legal program and had payroll withholdings. I read (some months ago) that many were inquiring about their benefits but never saw the resolution.

Anybody?

Or did these workers just get screwed (like so many of the working poor) yet again?

[Warpy]

9. My own bet is for the screw job

meaning papers got "lost" between two governments, neither of whom were particularly motivated to see those workers get what was due them.

[havocmom]

10. Yep, a little longer time spent dragging feet and the workers will all be dead

What I really want to know is did the employers REALLY turn over the withholdings like they were supposed to or was it a scam from the get-go.

[Turbineguy]

3. As far as I know

you cannot collect unless you your spouse or your parent pay in (and you are below the age of 18). What is of greater concern is the numberr of people who are working on fake SS numbers or numbers that belong to others who presumably will benefit from their work.

I have to wonder just how many Bush supporters are collecting SS benefits on the backs of others.

Maybe the answer is to show this person how he too can cash in by lending out his SS number to illegals.

[Vinca]

7. I have no sympathy for anyone who has stolen an identity and

used another person's social security number. The victim of the crime deserves every dime the illegal use of the number pays into their account (and I would guess Democrats are in this position as often as Republicans). Some people have had their social security accounts so screwed up, they are forced to prove how much they've put in over the years in order to get the benefits they've worked so hard for.

[Mz Pip]

4. "illegal aliens"

are not eligible for social security. If they ever become legal they will be entitled to receive benefits just like any other legal citizen.

snopes also adresses it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/petition.asp

Mz Pip
:dem:

[underpants]

5. They do pay into the system in fact they fund 3-5% of Soc.Sec.

The people who believe this sort of email think that all the illegals work and get paid "under the table" of course they don't- their employers would never be able to justify who earned THEM all that money.

Illegals usually either have face SSNs or there is a program to allow them to actually pay taxes. One of the funnier points that was made about the amnesty was about how THEY would have to pay back taxes-well guess what they do pay taxes in fact they (generally) never file for refund because they could lead to an audit...basically anything that keeps attention away from them is a good thing.

Back to Social Security. Here is what I was able to find- there is very little information/research done on this issue (gee can you figure out why?)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/underpants/27

For round numbers there appear to be about 10 Million "illegal immigrants" or "undocumented workers". Not to parse words here, they both mean basically the same thing.

Of undocumented/illegals--> 60-75% entered illegally. The other 25-40% entered legally and overstayed their visas or otherwise violated the terms of their admission.
-Of those 57% are Mexican, 23% are from other Latin American countries, 10% are Asian, 5% are European or Canadian, and 5% are from everywhere else.

Of the Foreign Born Population (~ 35 Million) in the US 25% are illegal/undocumented-- 30% are Legal, 30% Naturalized, 8% Refugees, 5% Temporary legal.

40% of illegals are women. 54% live in married families or other families. Fewer then half are single men and unattached.

According to the US Social Security Administration 75% pay payroll taxes and will contribute $6-7 BILLION in Social Security funds that they will never claim.

Okay here is where it gets fuzzy.

90-96% are employed (I saw both numbers)

AND NOW the big question

Do they drain social service resources MORE than they contribute?

The CATO Institute (yes them) says:

Myth number four: Immigrants impose a financial burden on taxpayers. Immigrants do make somewhat heavier use of means-tested welfare programs than natives. There have been especially flagrant abuses by immigrants of particular welfare programs, such as Supplemental Security Income. But because immigrants tend to come to the United States during the start of their working years --between the ages of 18 and 35 -- they make very large net contributions to the two largest income transfer programs: Social Security and Medicare. When the payroll tax contributions of immigrants are taken into account, the Urban Institute found that the foreign born constitute a net fiscal windfall to the public sector of some $20 billion a year. To the extent that welfare use by immigrants is a problem, this can be addressed by restricting the welfare eligibility of immigrants, not by keeping immigrants out.
http://www.cato.org/dailys/4-22-97.html

PBS (yes THEM) says

Immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in public services in their lifetime?

REALITY: Welfare use among non-refugee immigrants is lower than among U.S. native-born citizens in the same age group (15-64). The 1990 census reported that 20.4 percent of immigrants were on welfare, compared with 26.2 percent of U.S. native-born citizens. In 1997, immigrants paid an estimated $133 billion in federal, state and local taxes. A typical immigrant and his or her offspring pay an estimated $80,000 more in taxes than they will receive in federal, state and local benefits over the course of their lifetimes.

[Bitwit1234]

8. Don't know where it originated but this is about the fifth time

I have seen this email circulated.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

11. Follow-up question:

Does anyone know what is referred to by "...the bill that the Senate voted upon recently which would allow illegal aliens to access our Social Security" ??

Was there some recent legislation on this passed that went under the radar or that I was too preoccupied to catch??

[mahina]

12. I thought that was in the bill on immigration that didn't get voted on at all.

Could be mistaken, but the immigration bill didn't even make it to a vote afaik