A couple in Georgia dont like their Brown neighbors

[Union Label]

at least thats the way it looks to me.

Ten people are living in Zugey Arzate's little brick house in east Cobb County, and her neighbors say the crowd is causing big problems.

Arzate says her 1,511-square-foot home on Little Road has ample space for her and her nine relatives from Mexico.

Neighbors say that's far too many people in a single-family home. They have counted as many as 10 cars on her property. They fear for their property values.http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2007/07/23/illegal_0724.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

[DavidDvorkin]

1. I'd be upset, too

And it would have nothing to do with skin color.

[Union Label]

4. Why?

Is it because they have ten cars that look to be in very good condition, and not like I've seen a bunch of rednecks with all sorts of crap on jack stands and left to rot in their yards? Or is having ten people to much?

[DavidDvorkin]

13. See message 7

It's a nightmare - parking, traffic. Large numbers of people in one house almost always means more noise, lasting later and starting earlier.

[lies and propaganda]

59. when i lived in the Bay Area...

we had HUNDREDS of day laborers that worked the vineyards that would be picked up in the am, then dropped back off at night right on my street. Almost all of them lived in vehicles, the rest the park.. While I felt awful for them, I was constantly freaked out that every time I left my house there were dudes, who I happen to not be able to communicate with, all seeing my comings and goings...

I was only able to stay in freaking paradise for a year because it became way too much for me to handle...

[xultar]

5. Other cultures do that though...many relatives under 1 roof. Would u be up set

if it were a million dollar home? Everyone is always complaining about the mc mansions and how un-environmentally friendly they are.

What's wrong with 10 people living in one house that size. I live in a house bigger than that and it is just me. I'm taking up way too much space.

[Midlodemocrat]

19. The difference would be that the million dollar property

could probably accomodate that many cars.

This property can't, and therefore it becomes the entire street's problem.

[MaraJade]

89. My feelings exactly. . .

This property is simply too small for all of these people. Besides, he relatives can visit, but
legally she should not be harboring them there.

[Quantess]

60. A truly environmentally friendly thing to do

Would be to sell 6 or 7 of those cars, and use the rest for carpooling and ride sharing.

[xultar]

65. I don't disagree but ATL is horrible for carpooling. Traffic is the worst and

the mass transit system is being blocked because the suburbs don't want the 'lower class bussing' in.

[blondeatlast]

11. So what would you be upset about? nt

[xultar]

42. Anyone running around neekid with little penises. That'd piss me off.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. what if it were big...

penises? would that be better?

sP

[xultar]

51. HAYLE YEAH! I'd like that very much. Much better!

[MaraJade]

87. I'd be upset also. . .

All of those cars parked on the lawn would totally tear it up. That would be a terrible eyesore in a residential
neighborhood, expecially one where all of the lawns (except the parking lot) are well kept. Volleyball games in the yard along
with the number of people (imagine these ten having guests over on a regular basis)would generate a lot more noise than
a family simply enjoying their yard.

What with the eyesore and the noise alone, I would be seething with
anger if I was immediately next door to this home. And the large group of young men hanging around there would not bring the notion of safety to any parents of young children or teen girls. As the parent of a 16-year-old girl, I would
definitely NOT want her associating with or even speaking to any young man who is not in this country legally--I would not
want any of these young men to approach her either.

I cannot say that I love my homeowner association, but when I read stories like this, I am glad they are there. No way
this sort of thing could ever happen in my neighborhood.

Crowded homes like this bring neighborhood property values down. They also violate safety codes in most states. "Crowded house
living" is something common in third-world nations and is not the cultural norm here. We only "crowd" our homes at holiday time
or if some emergency has occurred.

Needless to say, I am STRONGLY opposed to any form of illegal immigration; at the same time, I am a STRONG supporter of
legal immigration--my own husband is an immigrant. We did the right thing, and he is now a nationalized citizen.

And before you hit me with that "racist" label, you need to know that I am black and my husband is white. Our daughter is biracial.

[kineneb]

2. they should get used to it now

when the manure hits the ventilator, there will be a lot more "shared" housing. As to too many people in a house, my Biological Dad had his wife and 8 kids in a 3 bedroom house. There was a boys' room and a girls' room and they were full of bunk beds.

[DBoon]

6. this is how working people lived 100 years ago

My Slovak father-in-law was raised in a house that size with eight siblings. It was common for the immigrants who worked in the factories and mines back then to live under these conditions.

Welcome back to the pre-New Deal world

[pitohui]

49. 100 years ago working people didn't have 10 cars in the driveway

but thanks for playing

[DBoon]

69. no and they didn't have television either

and your point is?

Overcrowding is a symptom of high housing costs relative to income. The programs of the New Deal plus post WWII economic expansion largely eliminated this for blue collar Americans. The collapse of both has brought it back

Does the availability of cheap used automobiles change this somehow? Are they not poor because 100 years ago only the rich could afford a 1906 Stanley Steamer?

Are people who can't afford adequate housing not poor because thay can own some electronic tchotcke that didn't exist 100 years ago?

[stranger81]

73. the article pointedly does not say this family regularly has 10 cars parked there --

it instead says, pretty tellingly, that the people complaining about them have "counted as many as" ten cars there before. That's about the size of a large dinner party (which, incidentally, I'm sure their wealthy white neighbors wouldn't complain about). If it were true that 10 cars were parked there regularly, or even often, you can bet the people complaining would have said that instead of what they did say (that they'd seen as many as that there before). Could have only been on one occassion, for all we know.

More importantly, though, if people taking up more than their fair share of street parking is the problem, then require people to purchase permits to park in residential neighborhoods. If the issue is that one guy doesn't like what another guy puts in his own driveway -- his own space, not public street -- then tough cookies.

[stranger81]

70. Unfortunately, it's also how many working people

are forced to live today in more expensive parts of this country (including where I live, the Bay Area). Rents and mortgages are simply too high for large numbers of working people to pay on their own, or even in a traditional immediate family unit. Where are people like this supposed to go? It may be an inconvience to their wealthier neighbors, but seems to me that other people's basic needs (like shelter) are more important.

[MaraJade]

90. If you are talking about the immigrants

(who legally entered, by the way) who lived in tenements--that was also bad.
There were many situations where fires killed hundreds who were crowded together.
Disease was also a major problem in the overcrowded housing back then as
sanitation was nearly impossible to ensure in crowded conditions.

http://www.thehistorybox.com/ny_city/nycity_tenement_problem_article00289.htm

People chose to live that way because they had no other options. Not so today.
People do not have to enter the United States illegally, and people do not have to
live in slums.

[Richard Steele]

14. Both of my parents grew up the same way.

Although I've never seen Mom's childhood home, I can
attest that Dad's was around 1500 square feet, with 3
girls in one bedroom and 4 boys in the other.

With the way the economy is going, it's not just "recent
immigrants" who are rediscovering the shared-housing lifestyle.
All the people losing their homes are moving SOMEWHERE; and
quite often it's into homes already occupied by family or
friends.

[Turbineguy]

3. Do they

have a fountain with a statue of a naked lady with a clock where her belly ought to be in the front yard?

10 cars. Wow! I bet that doesn't even leave space for a broken washer!

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. This is happening on my residential street too.

Multiple families living in a single family house, 5 or six pickup trucks parked out front, people coming & going 24-7. It's a nightmare.

[MaraJade]

91. Is there a homeowner association or

a local building code? If so, you really should complain.

[Mr. Ected]

8. In Holland, I Lived In a 540 sf Townhome With Wife & 2 Kids

And my Dutch neighbor, hearing me complain about the tiny space, told me off: "The family that lived there before raised 10 children in that home!"

Cobb County is a right-wing cesspool. This is just a backdoor way to discriminate against our Hispanic counterparts.

[Double T]

9. Extended families under one roof is the future of this nation;............

get used to driveways that look like parking lots. Just continue supporting illegal alien amnesty, corporate foreign outsourcing and purchasing all those asian made products.

[EFerrari]

12. We can't have those anti American extended families! n/t

[Mark Twain Girl]

10. I don't like the thought of legislating that folks must take up lots o' space

From the article:

Such complaints have caught the attention of Cobb County officials, who are targeting homes like Arzate's through a proposed ban on overcrowding in homes that is scheduled for a vote tonight. The proposal would limit the number of people who can live in a home based on its size — one adult per 390 square feet. That would mean Arzate could have perhaps only three adults in her home.

[ecstatic]

34. One adult per 390/sq feet sounds excessive, but I'm sure enforcement will be selective

So no worries? :shrug:

[RB TexLa]

15. sounds like someone needs to learn to mind her own business

[ProdigalJunkMail]

17. when it spills over into your living space it IS your business

this isn't about having lots of kids...this is about opening a boarding house (for lack of a better term). I have lived near a house like this. People coming and going at all hours with the 'bump, bump, bump' of the stereos and the loud conversations in the yard at all hours. Cars parked on BOTH sides of the street and even IN MY YARD. This is why zoning laws exist...the term 'single-family-home' means SINGLE FAMILY. I would want them out too...

sP

[Double T]

23. single-extended-family-home

I can't wait to see how legislators deal with this. Rural America may have a rebirth.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. well, let's extend the family as far as we can...

want to move in? We have a spare bedroom...

sP

[Double T]

30. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll wait till the empty corporate factories,.......

plants and offices are converted into modern day longhouses.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. happening a lot around here...

some pretty nice lofts in parts of the ATL...pricey though...

sP

[RebelOne]

75. I live in Cherokee County and it is loaded with illegals.

So that's why this ordinance was adopted.

Cobb's actions come as other local governments, frustrated by the federal government's inaction, are moving to crack down on illegal immigrants. Cherokee County adopted an ordinance in December to punish landlords who rent to illegal immigrants.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

howdy neighbor...Forsyth here...

we have tons here, too, as you well know. As long as they are living by the same standards as the rest of the neighborhood I am not sure I understand why people would have a problem. I guess if your goal is to get rid of the immigrants then this might just work. Unfortunately, with all the building up here, this is a work-mecca for them. I don't understand why we "invite" them, only to try to get rid of them?

Oh, well...I am just a little 'simple' this morning.

sP

[ecstatic]

97. You (maybe not you specifically) hire them, but where do you want them to live?

This is what irritates me about some Cobb/Gwinnett residents. You reap what you sow. You hire them to mow lawns and do all these menial tasks but then when they try to live near you it's a problem. Cobb/Cherokee/Gwinnett don't have adequate public transportation so if you kick them out, they most likely won't be back. But now other counties who were not as eager to exploit illegal workers now have to deal with it.

[datasuspect]

66. or when the suburbanites can no longer afford $10/gallon gas

and have to move closer to population centers.

then we can all move into wal mart after it is boarded up.

[RB TexLa]

33. So if there were two people, no one would go "bump, bump, bump" at certain hours

And two people couldn't own four vehicles like my wife and I do.

Noise ordnances apply regards of how how many people you live with. Also trespassing laws apply regardless of the number of cars or how many people someone lives with. Those problems can be handled without this lady saying "get up on the fence and see how many people are living over there, Eugene. I gots to know!"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. 10 cars... less than 1600sq.ft...

do YOU park in your yard? do you have litter all over? do you come in at 0230 blasting your wal-mart (yes, I saw the bags whilst the 'tube' was being installed) car stereo?

This isn't about 10 people living in a house. If it were 10 people who didn't make a shithole out of the house they were living in and pissing off all the neighbours then this wouldn't be a problem (well, the people making the complaint MIGHT be jerks but from the story they have a legit complaint). Three houses down from the 'problem house' in our little neighborhood were 9 mexican males living in one house probably about the same size as the one in the story...they had three cars...all fit in the driveway...they kept the house neat and were great neighbors...no one ever complained about them. Unfortunately, that was the exception rather than the rule for our area and probably for this area too. People being abusive neighbors is what is leading to this backlash. And the backlash is being directed at the perceived problem.

sP

[stranger81]

77. oddly enough, the worst offender in my neighborhood is a pentecostal church . . . .

it's two doors down from our house, and has no parking lot of its own. Churchgoers -- who show up 5 nights a week for either church or choir practice -- all truck down here in their huge SUVs and mini-vans, squeeze into literally every parking space available in a 2 block perimeter (any friend who visits has a hike ahead of them to get here), sometimes blocking our driveway in the process. They stay at the church for 2-3 hours at a time, all the doors and windows in the place wide open, microphones cranked way up, and sing these insipid contemporary christian songs. And none of them are in key -- their loudest soprano is reliably and screechingly sharp. Then they all pile out of the church, walk back to their respective cars (spread over a number of blocks), and SHOUT all their goodbyes and parting conversations to one another -- usually around 10:00 at night.

These folks are probably the most annoying, rude and inconsiderate "neighbors" I've ever had . . . .

Just had to vent a little!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

94. was the area zoned for a church?

that is NOT hard to believe that they would behave that way and I would say falls very much under the same concerns of the original poster in this thread...i would have tried to talk to them...then i would have done my darnedest to retaliate...a little acid rock during choir practice might have worked...

sP

[datasuspect]

68. white suburban kids don't listen to gangster rap

they don't have subwoofers in their tricked out hondas with loud tailpipes.

white suburban kids all go to al's to meet fonzie and potsie and listen to pat boone records.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

93. now that is some funny stuff

they were the WORST offenders when we had that problem...

sP

[hashibabba]

38. I recently had neighbors like that. Bunches of young men living

in one house. A bazillion cars. They'd park in the road because it's in front of their house and they didn't like that. They'd ride dirt bikes up and down in front of my little road for hours on end (one Saturday for 10 hours, even). I called the police to complain a few times and so did their other neighbors. Thank goodness they're gone now. I can actually get out of my road now and other vehicles can get in!

Edited to Add: They were white.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

95. that's BRAZILLION...thank you very much

:-)

sP

[MaraJade]

92. On the street where my sister used to live there was

a mexican family that did this. Everything was peaceful until last winter when
a bad ice storm occured.

People cleared the parking spaces in front of their homes (several hours of
backbreaking work) only to have no where to park when they got home from work.
Cars from the "crowded house" people were parked in most of the spaces so
painstakingly cleared by the homeowners.

Police had to be summoned to the neighborhood because a couple of fights
broke out.

[NeedleCast]

16. If Info in the Article is accurate

then they have a right to be pissed off.

"The county has issued citations to Arzate for litter on her property and for cars parked in her yard. Cobb authorities entered a warrant for her arrest this month after she failed to appear in court on the charges.

If someone were living in a trash heap next to me, I'd be pretty pissed about it too. I really don't care how many people she has in her house so much as I care about it dragging down my property value. White, brown, black...I couldn't care less about the skin color but living next door to a dump doesn't work for me. It appears that the home owner has no respect for her neighbors if her yard is full of cars and trash.

[Midlodemocrat]

18. I'd be pissed off, too. Most suburban neighborhoods simply

don't have the roads/driveways to accomodate that many cars for one home.

My across the street neighbors, mom, step dad, two sons, have SIX cars. :wow: Their driveway, (No garage) can accomodate two cars.

Where do the extras end up? Yup, in the street. When teenaged son has his drug dealing buddies over, there is absolutely no where for anyone else to park on the street.

It's outrageous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Have you thought about calling the police?

If the kid is really dealing drugs, you may at least be able to solve that problem.

[Midlodemocrat]

28. We have called and one night they arrested about 8 kids

between the hours of 2-4 AM. It was a small, sweet victory for the street.

The kid is just a POS. And, the dealing happens so fast that the police can't often get here quickly enough.

We're trying to pressure them to move out, via the HomeOwner's Association and the Police Department.

They are horrible, horrible neighbors.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. So they know their kid is dealing drugs?

They sound like dipshits.

[Midlodemocrat]

32. They can't 'not' know.

The house is party city all the freakin' time. I think they are doing drugs with him.

I know for a fact that they are drinking with him and his underaged friends. I've seen it.

There is a younger son who is a really nice kid who we do worry about.

The older brother is just trash. Literally. Works at the dump part time to supplement his drug dealing income. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. In my state, parents get jail time for serving alcohol to minors

It's a new law. They passed it to deal with teenagers having parties and parents not only allowing it but supplying the alcohol.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. Here, too.

I wish the parents of these kids who 'visit' would step up to the plate and call the police. It seems to always be me, my two next door neighbors and the neighbors on either side of them.


By this point, they have to know how badly they are reviled here.

[Horse with no Name]

100. Many years ago I lived in an apartment

and made the mistake of looking out the window after hearing gunshots one night.
My downstairs neighbors were dealing drugs.
However, I never had any trouble at all with them and when I changed apartments, the drug dealing guys came up and helped me move my stuff across the complex--in fact, they had my entire apartment cleared out in about 30 minutes. I think they had done that before.:eyes:

[JDPriestly]

20. I've lived next door to families crowding like that.

In LA this is not uncommon in some areas. People are noisy when they crowd in like that. They overburden a lot of resources like schools, police and security, parking spaces, trash collection, water, you name it. When we lived in Paris many years ago, the city regulated the number of square feet per person. That limited the number of people who could live in a house. It was a very good policy.

I remember dropping by a neighbor's house one morning when we first moved to L.A. The entire living room floor was covered with mattresses and bedding. Apparently several members of the rather large immigrant family regularly slept on the living room floor and picked up their bedding and stuff during the day. It was very primitive. I do not want to live like that. Nor do I want my neighbors to have to live like that.

This is part of what Edwards is talking about when he talks about the two Americas. The gap between the wealthy and the poor in L.A. is extreme. When I visit family in the mid-west, I do not see that enormous disparity. A few people are relatively wealthy in my mom's hometown, but out here in L.A., the extremely wealthy live in enclaves seemingly unaware of the misery of the equally extremely poor. It is shocking. Property values are not the only thing that suffers from the class gulf.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. What A Nonsensical Conclusion In That Header. Pretty Unfair And Knee Jerking IMHO.

After reading the article, I don't think for a second that the main root of this anger is over their race. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that neighbors would object to 10 people and 10 cars in a small house, especially when the cars are parked all over the property etc. I'd probably be able to look the other way, though I don't know what other nuisances this large group in a small home may be causing, but I still can understand why some others would find it objectionable. I don't think for a second that if it had been 10 white people, that the neighbors would all of a sudden think everything's hunky dory.

Just because someone isn't white, doesn't mean that any criticism towards them is racial in nature.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. stop that...

pointing out logical fallacies is rude. :-)

sP

[Midlodemocrat]

27. OT. OMC, how is your wife doing?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. She's Hangin In There. We're Getting Anxious Now Cause Her Surgery Is On Wednesday.

That's like the 'official' start of things ya know? Thankfully I have really good insurance and was able to get her into Memorial Sloan Kettering in Manhattan, which is the best. At least we know we're in really good hands.

But all things considered, she's been holding up really well. I'm quite proud of her and couldn't imagine how it must be through her eyes. I'm just doing my best to help her be positive and remind her to just keep focusing on only one step at a time, rather than looking at the entire plate's contents of the next five years in one fell swoop.

She also cut her hair down to her shoulders yesterday which she never had the courage to try before. But since she'll be losing it a few weeks from now she figured what the hell, might as well experiment. Came out great too!

But for now, our next real notch is Wednesday for her modified radical mastectomy. Feel free to pass the good vibes along that everything goes well and that her axillary lymph nodes turn out to be clean. I'll take all the positive vibes we can get!

Thanks for inquiring and peace,

OMC

[Midlodemocrat]

39. MSK is the best.

My sister in law was there and got incredible care. I sent a neighbor up there when her child needed to have his leg amputated because seriously, other than MD Anderson, their care is second to none.

I will keep both of you in my prayers.

And, just as an aside, even if the lymph nodes aren't clear, that's not the worst case scenario. My friend Sonja's weren't and she's now been clear of cancer for five years.

Think positively. :hug:

Oh, and there is an absolutely fabulous pizza place around the corner if you get hungry while you are waiting. IIRC, it's called John's. The best. (Plus they sell beer)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Ooooooh Thanks For The Pizza Joint Head's Up! I KNOW That's Gonna Come In Handy.

I'll definitely give it a try and ya got my mouth watering already! :)

As far as the lymph node thing goes, I know technically it isn't anything make or break. The fact is she is already one node positive due to the spread found in her intramammory lymph node. But my wife is sensitive to certain pieces of information and even though I know if a few more are positive it wouldn't really change our course anyway (since we already know she's gonna go through the 4 months+ of intensive chemo anyway), it would definitely still mentally trouble her quite a bit. So I'm more hoping they turn up clean for sake of her not having to go through the additional mental trama and anxiety, than actually for fear that it would be a worse outcome or anything.

[Missy M]

56. I'm sending my positive vibes to your wife...

good to know she will be in good hands. Please keep us posted on her progress.

[Marrah_G]

45. I'll light a candle for Wednesday

Good luck to both of you OMC!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Thanks!

:hug:

[book_worm]

62. I agree, people need to read the whole story and not just accept the interpetation of the OP

when they post a story because it's usually slanted in one way or another.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. The neighbor makes a blatant racist slur in the article.

This is clearly racist in nature.

[BlooInBloo]

22. There goes the neighborhood.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. What a couple of assholes.

Playing volleyball in the backyard?

Oh, heavens to Betsy! There goes the neighborhood!

:eyes:

[NYVet]

43. I have to agree with the concensus

This is someone who does not want to have a street that is congested with more cars than the neighborhood than accomodate.

[Midlodemocrat]

44. Welcome to DU. And, you are correct. It has nothing to do with race.

It is about being a good neighbor and not inconveniencing your neighbors.

[Blue_Tires]

50. lest we forget, Cobb Co. is Newt's old bass-ackward district

and they have such a sterling reputation in understanding 'outsiders'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Frank

[Forkboy]

52. Sounds like our old friend Carlos whining about his "shady" neighborhood.

[Gormy Cuss]

53. From the article, it doesn't sound like these residents are a problem save for the volleyball.

The cars are all crammed in the driveway, not lining the street. I've never understood why parking on the street is considered bringing down the neighborhood to begin with, but that's because I wasn't raised in suburbia.

Under Cobb's proposal, a house must have at least 390 square feet of "total building square footage" for each adult resident and for each car parked overnight. It also would limit the people living in a home to one family or two or fewer unrelated adults and their children and/or grandchildren. Family is defined as parents, children, grandparents, grandchildren, brothers and sisters.
...
Arzate said she lives with her husband and two children, her father, her brother, and her other brother and his wife and two children.

That's where they lose me. It may be because most of the "families" in the neighborhood where I was raised wouldn't fit their neat little definition and looked a lot more like Arzate's family.

[xultar]

54. Firsty volleyball, then cookouts...WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN ???????////???

[Midlodemocrat]

57. Generally because the streets are narrow and can't accomodate

parking on both sides. That's why you see driveways in the 'burbs.

We had a friend of TeenMidlo's living here last year along with my FIL, prior to his passing.

We widened the driveway so that the friend's car wasn't parked in the street. On my street, particularly in the spring and summer when the trees are full, parking in the street creates an issue with visibility.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Where I lived in Boston, the streets were so narrow that they were made into one-ways

and there was parking on both sides of the streets. The houses on my block were all built as duplexes and had driveways that could accommodate two to three cars plus had a single car garage and small backyards and there were trees lining the sidewalks so there were similar visibility issues.
Two towns away, where the streets were wider and all lots had single family houses with tiny lots and off street parking for only two cars in most cases, there was no overnight street parking allowed and the reason I heard more often than not from people I knew in those towns was that it would bring down the property values because the neighborhood would be cluttered like (the city where I lived.)

Where I live now (no sidewalks, all houses have at least two parking spaces off street and most have much more) on street parking could be allowed on one side without impeding traffic but it's against the zoning regulations to park on the street overnight. When someone is hosting a large gathering the entire block has cars parked on both sides of the street and the street is still negotiable for two way traffic. The regulations come from 1950s when most families had two cars or fewer. Some of my neighbors have as many as six cars parked in their driveway or on parking pads (none are in the two-car garages, LOL.) I'm sure that if they were allowed to park overnight on the street they would.

I really think in many cases it's more a perception of how suburban communities should look that drives the parking ban rather than practical considerations. It's similar to the way some perceive suburban neighborhoods without sidewalks and perfectly manicured front lawns in front of every dwelling to be superior to those with sidewalks and individually designed landscapes. There are also people who run from the former and prefer the latter too, but they seem to be a smaller group.

[datasuspect]

71. and are those the pinched, sour faces of the complainers?

oh yeah, i'm sure they are a barrel of laughs.

i bet they call the homeowners association if someone doesn't mow their lawn in straight lines.

[LWolf]

55. Overcrowding is a symptom

of overpopulation. It will continue until the birthrate drops.

Personally, I don't want to legislate how many people live in a building. I can see that people who choose single-family housing would be upset. I wonder if the value of their home drops? Of course, if homes were homes, instead of assets; if real estate wasn't a commodity, then that wouldn't be part of the issue.

I have extended family living in my home, and expect it to be that way for the rest of my life. I had 2 blessed years living alone, and I actually loved the peace and privacy. I also know that joining resources helps us to stay stable, and I think that having extended family under one family roof is going to become more and more common.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. I live in an area of SF...

with many smaller homes occupied by multi-generatinal families with 8-10 people living in them. Many are immigrants from Latin America and China, where this kind of living is the norm.

Can it be a problem? Yes, absolutely. Does it have to be a problem? No, not at all. Most of my neighbors like that do just fine and are respectful of their neighbors. It's all about how they handle themselves.

Right now, the worst house on our block is occupied by two white guys with noisy hogs, guns, an ODing girlfriend, and the kind of drama that goes the the afore mentioned. I'll take the quiet Vietnamese family of 11 over them any day of the week.

[Marrah_G]

61. I think it is very different when it is really a multi-generational home

rather then a sort of boarding house for all younger (say age 20-30) folks who may be related but more distantly. The article doesn't really say who those 10 people are.

It really is impossible to make any sort of judgment call on racism without knowing more.

[Midlodemocrat]

63. It says that the lady, her husband, her kids and two of her

brothers and their families live there.

[datasuspect]

64. well geez, i guess it's too bad the yuppies have made inner city living

unaffordable for poor people.

so they can't live in the city.

next stop, the suburbs

but then suburban people get all pissy because of all the cars and traffic. WAHH!

"my property values might go down!"

where the hell are people supposed to live?

at one time in this country, working people, poor people had viable living arrangements and all were some form of shared housing: rooming houses; SROs; apartment hotels; extended families living together in one apartment. and these were european immigrants in the late 19th/early 20th century.

what's really irksome is the petit bourgeois sense of entitlement, as if they have a right to uncluttered streets or one family to a house.

there are other people in this world, and many of them are different.

that they are mexican is just bonus for racists.

but the whole thing just stinks.

here's an idea for the suburban people: get your brethren to move back out to your communities and give working people and poor people the inner city back. that way you don't have to be "inconvenienced."

seriously though, poverty is actually real. many people have economic constraints that make the "one nuclear family to one house" model impossible.

what do you do with these people?

it's a pity that the only solutions many can come up with are more ways to hide and further marginalize the poor.

[Midlodemocrat]

67. Take a look at the pic in that article.

There are some very expensive cars there. Maybe they live together because they want to, as opposed to out of necessity. :shrug:

[stranger81]

80. or maybe they bought the cars used, or they belong to visitors . . .

seems like a more logical conclusion than they're living 10 to a house because they want to.

Shades of Barbara Bush at the Astrodome, anyone?

[Midlodemocrat]

82. Not according to the neighbors' account. The amount of cars

IS the issue.

[napi21]

72. It really IS a problem. The house across the street from me

is being rented because the builder couldn't get the price he wanted when he first built it. In the 7 years we've lived here, it's been rented by 3 different families and there were never any problems. Each family moved when they found a house they could afford to buy. About 6 weeks ago a new family moved in. I have NO IDEA how many people live there, but there are 4 cars in the driveway, 2 park in the yard, and 2 others park on the street! We live in a small SD and the streets are NOT WIDE enough to allow on street parking. Thank God we don't have much traffic, but even with the low volume of traffic there are problems since the street between our house and theirs is single lane due to their parked cars.

There also seems to be too many people for the house, since they've had to leave 2 rooms of furniture outside in the carport.

BTW, these folks are Caucasian.

[baldguy]

74. You don't need ten people in a house to cause problems.

One or two can be a nuisance all by themselves.

[ieoeja]

78. I like how Hispanics are "brown" when victims of the US.

And "white" when they wiped out most of the pre-Columbian population.

[JVS]

98. LOL.

[mondo joe]

79. Dustups between neighbors are as old as humanity. They even happen -

and this may shock the OP - between people of the same ethnicity.

[judaspriestess]

81. here is the mother of all stupid comments for today

"They are in the back playing volleyball on their days off," said Carolyn Warner, a retired Delta flight attendant who lives around the corner from Arzate. "They are probably illegal. ... They are all young men."

*GASP* they are playing volleyball on their days off!! OH THE HORROR.

[Yavin4]

83. When You Don't Pay A Living Wage, This Is What You Get

It never ceases to amaze me. People want to pay less than the cost of living in an area, and they just assume that the costs will vanish into thin air. Well, in order to get labor at minimum wage levels or less, you have to put up with multiple families in one house. That's the tradeoff. These people can afford to work for less because they're living at below the cost of living by sharing one house.

Either pay cost of living to laborers or don't complain about how they live.

[Beelzebud]

88. Bingo!

[Name removed]

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[Midlodemocrat]

86. I don't think it is a racial thing at all. Here the offenders

are white and middle class.

But still assholes.

[Wiccan Warrior]

96. Here in Sturgis Michigan you'll see that alot....

They have alot of problems there , my hometown, of Mexicans (Illegal immigrants) mainly living sometimes 15-20 in a 3 bedroom house hiding from authorities and getting under the table jobs with landscapers and other areas of work. The area they occupy though already has a property value problem.

[Name removed]

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