Okay...so here's the deal. I don't want to breathe radioactive dust.

[helderheid]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x139458

Watch the PSA with Governor Huntsman.
http://www.abc4.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoID=59160

ABC 4 News, in league with Utah Governor Jon Huntsman and thousands of concerned citizens throughout the Rocky Mountain West, is calling for an end to the government's planned mega-bomb test known as Divine Strake.

This 700-ton blast, scheduled for 2007 at the Nevada test site, 65 miles southwest of St. George, will be the largest conventional weapons test ever conducted and threatens to send a ten-thousand foot mushroom cloud of radioactive dust across the state of Utah.

The Pentagon assures us there's no risk to the public's health, but we've heard these promises before.

After suffering thousands of cancer deaths and related illnesses due to government's nuclear bomb tests in the 1950's and 1960's, we at ABC 4 feel it's unconscionable to expose Utah's families to another such risk.

That's why we're calling on you to join forces with ABC 4 News and Governor Huntsman as we work together to stop Divine Strake.

Now is the time to act.



Voice your opinion
E-mail the Department of Energy: [e-mail]

Clicking this link will open your default email program and insert a form letter into the body of your message. If you have any problems, you may copy and paste the text of the letter printed below.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your Name:
Your Address:
Your City, State:
Your Phone Number:
Your E-mail:
Your Comments to the Department of Energy:

To:
NNSA/NSO
P.O. Box 98518
Las Vegas, NV 89193-8518

To whom it may concern:

Please add my name to the list of hundreds of thousands of Americans who oppose the planned 'Divine Strake' weapons test.

I believe the risk of exposing another generation of families to radioactive fallout is far too great and is a direct threat to the public's health and well-being.

I am also concerned 'Divine Strake' violates current EPA standards for environmental air quality and request that a detailed environmental impact study be completed before any future testing at the Nevada test site.



Sincerely,

[helderheid]

1. more info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x139458

[helderheid]

2. it's ONE MORE DAY and it is about Iran. And Cancer. YOU getting it.

[helderheid]

3. thanks for the rec - I'm off to bed and hope all DUers rec this and take action please

[ancient_nomad]

4. KnR n/t

[helderheid]

6. couldn't help but check in - THANK YOU.

[eleny]

5. k&r

from colorado.

[helderheid]

7. thank you - 2 more recs - I really am off to bed - please DU - stop this insanity!

[Bobbieo]

8. Great job lady!! I'm trying to do my part

with the help of the Western Shoshone and Mohave Downwinders.

[kaygore]

9. Hmmmm....Didn't Utah elect these Republican maniacs

I am sorry that so many blue states will be affected, but I feel that the red states wanted these guys, so they should happily accept the consequences. I don't mean to be flip, but why would the Republican governor of Utah expect anything different from a war-loving, torture-using, gay-bashing, flag-waving bunch? Didn't the people of Utah make their own bed? Why don't they want to lie in it? How about all those civilians in Iraq who are suffering unspeakably from Utah's choice for president and senators, etc.

This may get garner me a lot of hate replies, but I don't know why all those who elect Republicans aren't willing to share the pain. I do feel sorry for those who did not elect those bastards, but the majority rules and in Utah the majority is Republican and shares those warm, fuzzy Republican values.

[Hekate]

13. My son lives in Las Vegas now. Thank you so much. And my aunt and uncle live in Salt Lake City.

Harry Reid is from Nevada. The mayor of Salt Lake City is a Democrat opposed to the war in Iraq.

Uncounted women (and their daughters) downwind of the A-tests in the 50's developed breast cancer. One woman wrote about the women in her extended family -- they called themselves "the tribe of Amazon women" in reference to having a breast cut off, and their courage. As she wrote about it she learned that it was all due to A-testing.

Don't damn whole populations, even in thought. It brings you to the level of callous cruelty displayed by the masters of war, and you don't want that.

Hekate

[kaygore]

16. I hate what these people do and their cavalier testing of civilians

But I do find it ironic that the governor of very Republican Utah is up in arms over this. Didn't he know by 2004 what the Republican agenda is and in what contempt they hold the American people? Seems to be a bit late now to whine, given this administration's track record for destroying the EPA, poisoning our air and rivers, giving free reign to big pharma and corporation to poison and maim us.

I truly feel sorry for all those who will suffer and who have suffered, but how many have gone to the polls to register their disapproval through their votes? How many protest? How many gave time and effort and financial assistance to defeat the Republicans in this last election? This petition is too little too late. That's all.

[helderheid]

22. I'm in Utah, as are a number of lovely people. Our nation is PURPLE

:mad:

Ever hear of Mayor Rocky Anderson? FROM SALT LAKE CITY? KEYNOTE AT THE ANTI WAR RALLY??

[helderheid]

23. FURTHER, look at the map. Me thinks you live in one of those states. WE'RE ALL downwinders.

[Stephanie]

10. You'd think they'd outsource it.

I'm surprised they're not doing this in China, or Malaysia, or at least the Marianas. Wouldn't they save a bundle?

[alofarabia]

11. I have a question...

If this is a conventional weapon (ammonium nitrate and fuel oil) where does the radioactive dust come in? That doesn't change the fact that the test is a bd idea, but I want to fuly understand the issue. Thanks.

[scarletwoman]

14. Quick explanation -- because the dust it will kick up is radioactive from all the nuclear tests done

in that very same area in the 50s.

Please follow the OP's links to get a clearer explanation.

Hope this helps!

sw

[Sirveri]

46. Except that most of that dust is no longer radioactive.

Most of it has long since decayed away to background levels. So unless they're planning an above ground nuclear blast, I don't expect to see much in the way of radioactivity from this test.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi alofarabia!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[struggle4progress]

12. ASK FOR AN EXTENSION OF THE COMMENT PERIOD

Ask the agency and ask your Congressfolk.

[Hekate]

15. KnR."Divine Strake"--What a nightmare scenario, vomited forth from sick minds.

My son moved to Las Vegas. This is personal.

Hekate

[kaygore]

17. Unfortunately, the Religious "Wrong" seems LV as a modern

Sodom and Gomorrah. I have many friends who live in LV, Susanville, Carson City, Reno, etc. I know how you feel!

[KT2000]

18. They've done such a great job

of paying for healthcare or compensating those who have already been made ill from previous tests.
bush is still fighting the approved compensation.

[fed-up]

19. a swift KICK/REC for the morning crew n/t

[helderheid]

20. Goooooooodmornin' DU!

[helderheid]

21. FEBRUARY 7th IS THE LAST DAY

Yes, I'm screaming.

[helderheid]

24. .

[CabalPowered]

25. As a downwinder, I say

FU DoE/Bush. I live in that 12-16 rad category and I'd prefer that those levels go down and not up.

[helderheid]

28. I cannot believe they are looking to go down this road!

[porphyrian]

26. Why not? It might make you into Spider Woman.

Or, it could just give you, and thousands, if not millions, of others cancer.

[helderheid]

27. Neither really appeals to me

:hi:

[Tuesday_Morning]

29. kicking and writing

:kick:

[helderheid]

30. thanks!

:hi:

[MamaBear]

31. K&R and me neither.

This is clearly insane. I sent the message; I've contacted them before on this issue. I'm so old, I remember when U.S. government and its agencies acutally responded (somewhat) to the voice of the people although, come to think of it, when "defense" was involved ...

We did manage to get them to stop the Mach + flyovers back in the '50s. The sonic booms would crack the windows if you lived in an old farm house, like we did.

This is 1,000 times worse ... at least. :cry:

Hoping for success ...

MB

[helderheid]

32. Thank you, MamaBear. I so fear for my children

[MamaBear]

33. helderheid ...

:hug: I fear for them, too.

[spoony]

34. That amounts to

about 800 mrem a year (for twenty years) if the graph is to be taken at face value and we use the linear energy transfer equation of 1 rad = 1 rem.

If you're concerned about radiation, there are a lot of things that will give you more than this in yearly exposure.

Get your house tested for radon, first of all. Even if your house isn't abnormally high you're getting 1/4 of of that 800 mrem from radon. And don't smoke (that can be up to ten times this exposure in one year). And on and on.

I oppose such testing because I oppose the weaponry research. The radiation issue, while good at scaring the hell out of people, is not that good a reason.

[helderheid]

35. Would you mind writing them opposing the weaponry research then?

[spoony]

38. I have. I will continue to. n/t

[helderheid]

37. The cancer rates after the tests are astounding

[spoony]

39. If that is the level of exposure

then I can only say it wasn't a big factor in whatever increase of cancer occurred. How many other factors should be ignored to go after the radiation bogeyman?

[helderheid]

36. A letter someone on my local lists sent :

United States Department of Energy
NNSA/NSO
P.O. Box 98518
Las Vegas, NV 89193-8518

"Divine Strake" or "Unholy Stretch"?

Who but the United States Government would cloak death in religious language, labeling the unholy as divine? And employ a variant of stretch to emphasize the duplicity?

Saddam Hussein was put to death for gassing Iraqi citizens. What U. S. leader should die when thousands of Utahns and other residents of the Rocky Mountains sicken and die from "divine" radioactivity released from the soil of nuclear explosions that rained death on these families in the 1950s and 1960s?

Must this Administration put its own citizens to death to develop a weapon to destroy Iranian underground nuclear facilities? Is killing all this Administration knows how to do?

I oppose the planned '"Divine Strake" weapons test.

I am also concerned 'Unholy Stretch" violates current EPA standards for environmental air quality. I request that a detailed environmental impact study be completed before any future testing at the Nevada test site.

Sincerely,

[Bake]

40. It took me a while to "get" this, but now I got it!

I kept thinking, what's the problem if this bomb, even a BIG one, is not a nuke. Then the light went on, and I realized the concern was that it would kick up the radioactive dust that was already there from the nuke tests.

DUH!! I once was blind, but now I see.

Good luck in opposing Divine Strake.

Bake

[helderheid]

41. Thank you! Please cut and paste the letter to the DOE!

:hi:

[Sirveri]

47. Except that the dust isn't radioactive anymore.

Aside from a couple isotopes any radioactive isotopes created during the 50's and 60's would have decayed below background levels. Even Cs-135 and Sr-90 which have half lifes of 30 years is down to 1/4-1/3 original levels.

[Bake]

50. That may be, but how certain of that are you?

Do you want to go rolling around in that dust? I don't, and I don't trust what the govt. is telling the public about this either.

Bake

[Sirveri]

51. I do radiological work for a living.

Nuclear bombs create fallout by both their own fission fragments and by neutron irradiation of the soil. Simply take measuring of the various elements in the soil by percentage, add one neutron to them and find out how stable that new isotope is and determine its half life using a chart of the nuclides.

for our purposes we'll assume that the terrain in quation is an Ardisol soil type of the Calcid subtype. This soil is primarily composed of CaCO3

Since there is 3 times the Oxygen as there is Calcium and Carbon we'll start with that.
O-16 is the most prevelant isotope and is obviously stable, bombardment by one or even two neutrons will change it into O-17 or O-18, both of which are stable and occur in nature .038% and .2% of the time respectively. O-19 is NOT stable nor is any higher numbered isotope of Oxygen, however every isotope above O-18 has a half live of 30 seconds or less and decays into either a stable daughter nucleus or another short half life nucleus. So I can be almost totally certain that any Oxygen that was activated in the soil would have decayed to nothing after 50 years since that is over 52 Million half lifes for Oxygen.
Carbon is the most abundant element C-12 is most abundant and is stable and C-13 accounts for the other 1.11% of naturally existing carbon. C-14 has a half life of 5700 years, and is most commonly used during carbon dating of fossils, the radiation released by C-14 is harmless and wouldn't even penetrate your skin. You're actually probably eating trace ammounts of it on a daily basis. C-15 has a half life of 2.449 seconds and has really nasty decay radiation. But like O-19 and above, those sources have all since decayed away to nothing.
Calcium I'm doing last because it has six stable elements and one that really should be considered stable (Ca41) but REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to be potassium, so it has a half life of 10,200,000 years and then it radioactively decays by eating an electron and shooting out some really pathetic and weak X-rays. So lets talk about stable isotopes, they are Ca- 40, 42, 43, 44, 46, 48. 40. By percentage you've got 96.94%, .647%, .135%, .209%, .004%, and .187% abundance. The most common iostope will get changed into something that is almost stable and has a weak decay if it absorbs one neutron, or something that is completly stable if it absorbs 2, 3, or 4 neutrons. Ca45 has a half life of 162.61 days which means it would have decayed over 112 times. Assuming you had 1 Curie of this stuff you would now 50 years later only have 1.93 x 10^-34 Curies left. Considering most people get about 300 mrem normally each year just from naturally occuring sources, this is less than background levels. Ca-47 has a half life of 4.536 days and Ca-49 8.718 days, everything beyond is less than 30 seconds for a half life.

So, while I don't have a specific breakdown of that specific soil, I can tell you I would have no problem rolling around in it other than that I'd probably rather not get my clothing dirty. If you give me a specific breakdown along with the core used for the nuclear warhead I could give you an extensive breakdown of every element in the dust and the remaining level of radioactivity therein as well as expected curie count and surface contamination levels. My guess is that the surface levels would be below normal background.

I use this site for my chart of the nuclides: http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/chart/
Good referance info can be found at wikipedia of all places. I suspect other nuclear trained professionals have helped shape the entries on radioactivity, radioactive decay and the various other articles relating to nuclear power.

[helderheid]

42. before going to the gym kick

[nicknameless]

44. K&R

[PreacherCasey]

45. done. nt

[helderheid]

48. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO DID THIS!!

:yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock:

[helderheid]

49. UPDATE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x153164