Should Inmates be Allowed to Smoke in Prison

[durrrty libby]

In my state they are allowed to smoke.

They buy cigarettes at a discounted price in their canteens (stores).

Many of these murderers, child-molesters, rapists, and car-jackers are in
prison for 30 years to life.

The taxpayers get to foot the additional bills to treat emphysema, lung cancer
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, heart disease and cancers of the mouth for decades.

Inmates with asthma use prescribed inhalers and they continue to smoke.

Their smoking causes an increase of respiratory crisis and therefore an increase of emergency treatment.
All these diseases increase trips to the local ER via ambulance and the occasional Medi-Vac helicopter, which of course, you pay for.

Cigarettes are used to pay for sex and pay off sports bets, which leads to an entirely different set of problems, including violence.

BTW this is not just a few people, but hundreds of thousands across the country

What is your opinion?

[MoseyWalker]

1. yes

[Book Lover]

2. What we get now is better than what we would get should we forbid them to smoke (nm)

[quinnox]

3. yea

They have a bad enough time so cigarrettes can be one pleasure afforded them.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

13. THEY have a bad enough time?

What about the people the murdered/raped/stole from, etc? What about the people they hurt who can never experience pleasure again because they are either dead or so fucked up that they can't? What a ridiculous thing to say about someone in prison! They SHOULD NOT be allowed to smoke in prison. Why should someone who should be learning to change/being punished be allowed any pleasure?
Duckie

[nebenaube]

30. if only that was true...

The fact of the matter is that most of the incarcerated are non-violent drug offenders, i.e. they are essentially political prisoners; not rapists, murderers, etc. Get your facts straight!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

32. I never said most or all...

I just said those that were...:shrug: You are jumping down my throat because I was speaking of the people who are actually in prison, not necessarily all of them.
Duckie

[youthere]

105. I don't think that's true...

Check out the stats from dept of justice:


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

Do you have another source that I could look at?

[Katherine Brengle]

61. Hey that's what I said!

:hi:

[Porcupine]

88. Um, most get out sooner or later you know.

So that our help in finding appropriate means of keeping themselves useful and content is in our interest.

Lets just let them out after 5-15 years of torture and sensory deprivation and then see what happens why don't we. (yes I know that's the current system)

[Ron Green]

4. I've worked in smoking and smoke-free facilities, and

Smoke-free is the way to go, by far. The "tobacco currency" problem is gone, the place is cleaner and fresher, and it's a 100% success rate for quitting smoking.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

Absolutely!

[Lost-in-FL]

28. They are not in jail to quit smoking

but to quit killing or quitting other crimes. We are taking away their freedoms, what else are we to take? If we are going to start that trend, why don't we just Take their lives instead? It is cheaper and cleaner.

[Katherine Brengle]

68. Comparing not letting someone smoke to killing them is ridiculous.

Why, oh why, should people convicted of crimes and incarcerated be granted any special privledges at all?

[Bluebear]

74. "special privledges".. I have not heard a liberal use that term lol

I guess smoking brings out passions.

[Katherine Brengle]

123. I seems to lol -- but

I would feel the same way about a lot of other things, and yes, I am a liberal.

If I weren't, I'd not advocate medical treatment for prisoners, rehabilitation programs, and that their basic human needs and rights be met while incarcerated.

:D

[Lost-in-FL]

150. You call smoking a special privilege?

Wow... what do you do for a living?

Not trying to change the subject but the "special privilage" crap is like complaining about homeless people wanting to have a cold one (I am not talking about alcoholics who happen to be homeless but people in serious financial situations who are homeless and suddenly decided they want to drink today). For Christ sake, they are homeless!! Can they at least have a way to find pleasure or something to look forward to? Is "looking forward" to something a privilege to?

I am not saying let them have porno videos, prostitutes and their own "My space" page. I am talking about a "smoke". Special privilege?? Now THAT'S ridiculous. And how is saying that comparing smoking to advocating for death penalty? Are you sure you aren't a Rush fan? What I am saying is that if we continue taking away things like smoking, what's going to be next? Toilet paper? What else? Cause you know someone is going to complaint about something else because the "self righteous person" in all of us is always going to have a saying is what other humans should do. Republicans like to tell others what is good or bad for all of us.

[Ron Green]

78. No, but they're in jail to change

if you believe in "rehabilitation" rather than simply "punishment." And getting clean of drugs (including tobacco) is part of the change process. Another part is finding self-respect deep within oneself, and quitting lots of the stupid thinking that inmates often share and feed each other.

Bitching about an unfair system is natural, but it doesn't help unless you've got political power. The only real power state prisoners have is their own discipline, which is, after all, greater than that of most politicians.

[Lost-in-FL]

151. I see your point and I am all for Rehab

And I am all for keeping them busy by doing something productive and helping them getting an education even if they are on death row. But to me, telling someone they must quit smoking to become a better person is like having a "fundie" saying that they MUST accept Jesus as their savior and THAT would be the only way to become a better person. I don't know much about the system, I don't even know how they get to earn cigarettes to tell you the truth. I think that there must be another way to solve this and another reason to convince me that smoking should not be allowed in prison.

[Ron Green]

157. One problem is that many of them have been too busy in the wrong ways.

I have found that one of the most difficult things for inmates to do is to do nothing; that is, to quiet their minds and get in touch with some emerging "true self." Prison is the perfect opportunity for this, because there are long stretches of time to be alone without distractions. Distractions, however, are allowed into the system, often by well-meaning policy makers who want to treat prisoners humanely and with respect, but who buy into the idea that cigarettes, TV, and junk food from the commissary are positive reinforcers for behavior.

My own experience working in several different facilities in two states is that a more monastic routine, while seen initially as a cruel kind of sensory deprivation, pays off in the long run with a much greater chance of personal change. A carefully-designed program that holds inmates accountable and always moves from extrinsic to intrinsic reward is more expensive to run in the short term, but will pay off over time. However, as others have pointed out, there is not the political will in the US to build such systems on a large scale, and there's too much money in the corrupt system we've got.

[Bassic]

97. That's right

While we're at it, we should only give then one kind of food, specificaly designed to give them what newtrients they need to live. And the food should have no taste at all.

[Lost-in-FL]

152. You know it!!

:thumbsup:

[William Bloode]

103. Ha, tell only one side of it will you.

You forgot the part about where people pay up to $10 for a single smuggled in. You forgot about the violence that occurs, the vicious robberies, and assaults to obtain tobacco from other inmates.

Also that 100% quitting rate flies out the window as soon as released. The who are forced to quit against their will, will almost always go right back to smoking.

No i have not worked in such an institution, i lived in them for well over 10yrs. I'm a bit more intimate with it than most i assure you.

[Ron Green]

119. You make your choices,

on the inside or on the street and you know that. The stupid upside-down world on the inside makes it hard to be real, but it can be done. To say that those who are forced to quit will almost always go right back to smoking says they are making some kind of childish "I told you so" decision about their own health.

If a facility is 100% smoke-free, including staff, then quitting is not an issue. You just don't smoke. If it's a loose general-population joint, then yeah, you're going to have all the crazy tobacco games, even if you've supposedly prohibited smoking. All I'm saying is that we can do a better job with limited corrections money than what we're doing. Once a guy really decides to make the internal changes that he needs to make, the system ought to support him 100%. But the system shouldn't support the nonsense and grab-ass that keeps inmates from focusing on their own mental, physical and spiritual development on the inside while they've got the chance.

[William Bloode]

126. You fail to face realism.

people who are forced to quit do not go back to it as an "i told you so" mind set. They go back because they did not make the choice to quit on their own. Anyone who knows anything about drug recovery knows there is no success if the user does not choose to for themselves. It's just human nature. I am sure you are unaware of "sleeping tiger", and "dry drunk" syndromes? Sleeping Tiger alludes to the fact that even if stopped addiction still grows. Common treatment stuff.

Next line is laughable really. We could do better with our recourses but we don't. There is also no public will to change. It's all about punishment. If a person is demeaned to a low level with no hope to be seen, nor facilities to help how does the healing begin. How do you focus on your internal, mental, physical, and spiritual in a system intended to degrade you and keep you under foot?

If you want decent people to come out of prison, you have to be decent to them while their in there.

[Ron Green]

145. "You have to be decent to them while they're in there."

I agree. How do we be decent to them? Let me know which of these policies in practice in prisons are decent and which are not:

1. Let them have cigarettes, so they can trade them for whatever.
2. Let them have any kind of drugs they can get smuggled inside.
3. Require them to learn some basic academic skills.
4. Give them psycho-dynamic therapy that validates whatever reality they bring to the session.
5. Let them have clandestine sex with willing female staff members.
6. Give them cognitive/behavioral therapy that requires a certain standard of thinking.
7. Give them a totally smoke-free environment along with a program to deal with their addiction.
8. Allow gangs to operate within the prison to maintain order and a social structure.
9. Let them have a full range of TV channels in their individual cells.
10. Provide a carefully-selected range of reading materials, and allow no TV at all.

.... and on and on. The point is that inmates who want to change are going to ask for fewer, not more, temptations. And inmates who don't want to change will go for what's fun and stimulating. My view on resources is that we are not using money wisely. Many programs that will reduce bad behavior are no more expensive that some things that perpetuate fear, violence and addiction. How does giving a man drugs (cigarettes) show more respect to him than teaching him how to meditate and learn to do his own time?

[MoseyWalker]

5. If we worried about the "taxpayers" so much

as I guess this country does now, more so than individual freedoms, then we wouldn't allow people to get into cars because they may kill someone; whether sober or not. Let's not allow people to work anywhere anymore because it is, after all, mostly working people who commit most of the crime in this nasty ass country.

Where does it stop?

Anytime someone is more worried about the goddamned taxpayers than human, individual rights, I worry. I don't care if it's about smoking or running red lights.

[LeftyMom]

6. How about a compromise

Add a per-cig charge at the canteen to defray increased medical costs, and insist they only smoke during their yard time. Like any other privilege you can take it away for bad behavior. No booze, no sex, you have to allow people some vices or they come up with new ones.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

16. You are a vegan/health nut, and you approve of smoking?

How weird is that?
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

18. I'm the worst health nut ever

Smoking sucks, but lord knows they haven't got anything else to do.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

25. Learn from their crimes, maybe learn a trade, go to college...

...read...I think they have a ton else to do. They just don't want to to do it. It's completely ridiculous to allow any kind of pleasure of violent offenders who have taken away the innocence or the life of someone else.
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

26. But most people in prison aren't violent offenders

Most of them are there for drug crimes, often just possession of a personal use quantity or small time dealing to support their habit.

[Ron Green]

27. Most of them are there for some serious anti-social behavior.

Not counting the ones, and there should be none, who are locked up in a state prison for simple possession. Most people doing hard time are there for taking someone's stuff that wasn't theirs or hurting someone pretty badly, and for doing it more than once. Drugs are usually involved, but we're not talking about simple using here.

I agree with the posters who advocate for a monastic sort of environment in prison. Coupled with the right kinds of education and therapy, it's the way that people can actually change, rather than just "doing their time" with plenty of cigarettes and Jerry Springer on TV all day.

[LeftyMom]

29. Well that's not going to happen

Here's the situation in California: we have almost twice the inmates the system has the capacity for. The gov is trying to ship them out to for-profit prisons out of state and it's probably going to cause the prisoners, the guards or both to riot. The correctional officers are essentially a prison gang with money, guns and the ability to buy politicians. Most of our inmates are still- after a proposition designed to divert them to treatment- non-violent drug offenders.

They're not getting educated. They're not getting therapy, excluding the sex offenders. They're sure as hell not getting a monastic environment, and that's not about to change. We'd have to reinvent the system and there's neither the political will nor the money to do so.

So as long as they do it outside and pay a premium for the medical costs, let them smoke out on the yard. They're only harming themselves.

[Ron Green]

82. I agree that the system is broken, and there's not the political will to fix it.

It depends on the state, of course, but my firm belief is that we're spending the money all wrongly in corrections. Of course, simple-possession drug users should not do hard time, but if you look closely many of the "non-violent" offenders have cases of larceny and all kinds of property crimes associated with their drug use. There's also the problem of the separate "prison culture" that's been created by economic and political factors that you cite.

However, my view is that inmates either are working toward their own personal change, or they're working a game. The best use of corrections dollars is to determine who's in what group, and assign them to programs based on this. Otherwise a general-population facility is a great big crime school.

Smoking is a small but important part of this whole picture. If a man remains pissed off because you've taken away his cigarettes, and doesn't accept the opportunity to quit smoking and work on mind and spirit as well, he's not committed to his own change. Custody levels and programs ought to be designed to always encourage and assist real change.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

33. I'm not talking about non violent offenders.

I don't think I ever mentioned them.
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

35. The OP just says "inmates"

You responded to my response, which was based on the OP's question about inmates generally. The only person only looking at one classification of inmates that I can see is you.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

37. I don't deny that.

[Matariki]

79. So you're for letting the 'non-violent' offenders smoke then?

what exactly IS your point? smoking costs tax payers money or smoking should be used for punishment of violent offenders?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

147. I'm against anyone smoking...

I may not have mentioned non violent offenders, but I'm equally against them smoking.
Duckie

[durrrty libby]

43. Oh, there are plenty of murderers,child molesters and rapists

[Ariana Celeste]

44. you're absolutely right.

when i was arrested, out of all the ladies i had the pleasure of "living" with, only a couple of them were in there for non drug related offenses.

[durrrty libby]

46. You're talking about jail. This is about long term prisons.

There is a big difference.

[Ariana Celeste]

47. Yeah, except that drug possession is a felony too

And I'm about to go to prison if my lawyer can't get me off on probation. Most of my fellow inmates were facing prison time. All drug possession. I've known others that have been in prison. I know the difference.

[durrrty libby]

50. That is a shame. Hopefully your lawyer is good

[youthere]

107. A quick glance at Dept. of Justice stats..

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

It's just something I looked at real quick, but it doesn't support that claim.
I would welcome more information though.

[Omphaloskepsis]

94. So you show your true colours.

You just want to bash smoking. The inane argument was just cover. Awesome!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

148. No, I don't just want to bash smoking...

But now that you mention it...Smoking is stupid no matter who does it.
Duckie

[Left Is Write]

57. Good idea.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

118. Good idea.

:thumbsup:

[jberryhill]

158. The one thing you never hear about "smoking costs"

Is the smoking bonus in terms of reduced life span.

Figure...

Prisoner A is serving life without parole. He eats his Wheaties, exercises, and stays fit.

Prisoner B is serving life without parole. He lounges around, watches TV, and smokes like a stack.

Which prisoner do you really think is going to cost taxpayers more in the long term?

[treestar]

7. Yes

Watch one of those shows about prisons. The jailors have to have some sort of reward or privilege to take away for bad behavior or use as a reward for good behavior.

[MoseyWalker]

8. Many of them aren't, or shouldn't be, because they are not all

in that selective group of yours:

Many of these murderers, child-molesters, rapists, and car-jackers are in
prison for 30 years to life.

[oldtimecanuk]

9. I agree with the yes's, as long as they do it in a place that...

does not abuse non spokers rights... ie: and that would include the staff of the prison as well..... I guess the bottom line is that it should be like any other place that both monitors smoking, and has designated areas for this.

ww

[EST]

10. If you are writing this treatise from the inside of one of these

institutions and thus have a valid, personal complaint, then it's a reasonable point. If not, why is it that important? Medical care, at least in the area of cancer, emphysema, etc, is not all that good in prison.

By all the numbers, it would appear that constant heavy tobacco use should reduce the cost of their incarceration-they ain't gonna live that long.

I know a few who are in it for the long haul and, according to them, the costs associated with medical care aren't very high. I happen to think it would be much better to provide them with all the drugs they want and take away the strength training gym equipment.

[EST]

17. As an addendum to the above, if we really give a shit about the

costs of incarceration, how about emptying the prisons of the million or so victims of prosecution for victimless crimes, simple possession, etc? The savings would be enormous.

[durrrty libby]

45. Treatise? Ha! But the poll is valid because I say it is

Medical costs are enormous and the care is good

It is much, much better than 50 million non-incarcerated receive.

You obviously love talking out of your ass.

[Xithras]

11. No, but for a different reason.

Prison should be about rehabilitation and improving the lives of the incarcerated, so they come out better people than they went in. Helping to end their drug addictions (including cigs) is a part of that.

[sweetheart]

83. for even a more different reason, yes

If an inmate can smoke without moving a muscle, they will clearly have attained siddha powers,
and be wise teachers of the ignorant when the leave the smoking place... or at least, help produce
some of the six hundred thousand tonnes ( http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/21-12-2005/9422-earth-0 ) of reflective smoke we need in the atmosphere to reflect back the sun and cool the earth.

[Bluebear]

12. Just a guess, the results not what you hoped for? nt

[durrrty libby]

39. “Just a guess, the results not what you hoped for?”

I had no preconceived notions

So far I am not surprised at how little most people know about prisons

I am surprised as to some strange justifications about smoking
in prison.


Some have a blasé attitude about disease process, and that is troubling

It is amusing how some get all cranked up and go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the subject. I really enjoy those.


One poster here worked in both a smoking and a non-smoking prison. He gets it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Hmm.

"So far I am not surprised at how little most people know about prisons"

And what would be your level of expertise?

[durrrty libby]

42. "And what would be your level of expertise?"

My level is professional

[stellanoir]

14. Given how utterly broken our penal system is,

and the lucrative for the very few the privatization of the prison system has been, and how money is what it takes to absolve one of all crimes currently, and the fact that these private corporations are making 30,000-70,000 bucks off inmates per annum when they generally don't even earn that much, some of whom are merely non violent pot heads, many more (not the potheads) are domestic abusers, and rehabilitation is no longer even an option, and recidivism rates are off the frigging map, and we have war mongers and profiteers in charge who think they are above the laws long established, and "hogwash" can shoot a friend mistaking him for a lethargic domesticated bird when he's loaded with total impunity,

I say, let them smoke butts if they wantta.

The system is so FUBAR that I can't even vote in this poll and it fully warranted a run on sentence. /rant

Have a nice evening.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. You don't need to smoke to get...

COPD, Heart disease, cancer of the mouth or emphysema. I tell you what kills them, the food they eat can cause Diabetes, obesity, Hypertension, Coronary Artery disease, and all those could increase your chances of strokes. Specially if they only get one hour of "play". With that said, are we to ban food also??

"Cigarettes are used to pay for sex and pay off sports bets, which leads to an entirely different set of problems, including violence."

Well, I don't care what they do in jail. Better there than killing others out of jail.


Edit to add: You don't cure Asthma by quiting smoking, you relieve asthma with medications. I use to be a smoker and I acquired asthma 6 years after I quiting smoking.

[Warpy]

19. You don't need to smoke to get nicotine, either

Alternatives should be offered, but not smokeable tobacco.

The problem with smoke is that it goes everywhere. Prisoners are highly unlikely to respect smoking in the exercise yard, only.

The jails here are smoke free. Expected riots did not occur. It did offer and added incentive to stay out of jail, though.

[durrrty libby]

52. 'Well, I don't care what they do in jail."

That is a very callous and short-sighted answer.

Why should the security officers lives be needlessly put in danger?

[Lost-in-FL]

153. Is that the point of your poll??

The Security officers health? I thought it was about "Taxes" and "us" paying for "their" health expenses. Make up your mind. You ask for everyones input and then you attack the input? Whatever...

BTW "Security officers" are in more danger of being killed by an inmate going bezerk than smoking. I would be more concerned with the possibilities of a riot than inmates smoking.

[durrrty libby]

161. Why get all worked up? If you don't like the poll,

don't participate.

You admitted you don't know jack about how prisons are run, and
It looks as though most people here are in the same boat.

Out of sight...out of mind


BTW, your new governor wants smoking banned in Fl.
It will happen state by state.

You don't have to tell me about the dangers for security officers
I know all about it

[brook]

20. How about

we cut off electricity, running hot water. Hire guards at 7.50 an hour/5 hour shifts/no benefits. Lots of laidoff auto workers, IT guys need work, dontcha know?

And I don't want to hear anybody complaining about 300+pounds of currency that Bremer can't account for - or Kate O'Bierne's hubby hiring evangelical graduates with no accounting background to keep track of it.

And by all means, Free Scooter.

Are you f**king kidding me?

[Debi]

21. Question #1 who is paying for the cigarettes?

Question #2 who is paying for their health care?

Question #3 who will be paying for smoking cessation programs (and medications for those programs)?

Question #4 who is paying for the health care of those whom the prisoners smoke around?

I hate smoking but am married to a smoker (which is probably why I hate smoking x()

[Little Wing]

22. Whatever slows them down for when they're back on the outside

[Ron Green]

23. Remember that most inmates will be out in a fairly short time - a few months to a few years.

A non-smoking environment is a major change for many. Whatever addictions can be understood and dealt with are opportunities for individual transformation, in my experience.

[FredScuttle]

24. Definitely

because, as you know, once you ban cigarettes, no one will ever have sex or gamble behind bars.

:sarcasm:

[Katherine Brengle]

31. I don't think prisoners should have ANY luxuries, including smokes.

JMHO

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. I disagree

That your O is H

[Katherine Brengle]

58. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't think prison should be a comfortable

experience. The bare minimum of necessities required for survival and rehabilitation (which personally I believe rarely occurs in our prison system) should be provided and nothing more.

Don't like it? Don't break the law.

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. I really don't give a fuck

what your opinions are about prisons.

My only point is that your opinion isn't particularly humble. Quite the opposite, actually. It's obnoxiously self-important.

Cheers.

[Katherine Brengle]

63. I find your tone obnoxiously self-important.

If you have a problem with my opinion, you are free to ignore it.

[Porcupine]

90. Pot meet kettle, kettle this is the pot.........

Isn't fun to get self rightous about causing pain to others who are not part of your particular "interest group." Yes it is.

Repeat after me.....

My pain is a tragedy.

Your pain is a victory.

Yeah, that helps, sure it does.

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. I'm also free to comment on it

Salud.

[Katherine Brengle]

124. Of course you are, civilly, as I responded to you. nt

[Left Is Write]

67. Rehabilitation might be more easily achieved if prisoners are allowed such small privileges.

If the penal system is about more than penalizing, more than retribution - if it is to be about rehabilitation also, then prisoners should have more than the "bare minimum to survive," unless you advocate going back to bread, water, a bucket for a bathroom and a pallet for a bed. What would you consider the bare minimum for both survival and rehabilitation?

Prison shouldn't be a picnic - and of course, it isn't - and letting inmates smoke isn't giving them any real luxuries. Taking away cigarettes would turn them into contraband, but be unlikely to stop the smoking.

[Katherine Brengle]

69. Rehabilitation is a joke in our prison system --

and I think 3 meals, adequate water, bathroom facilities and a reasonably warm/dry place to sleep and necessary medical care is fair.

Books, I think, are something reasonable to add to that list.

It would be great if we got serious about rehabbing convicts, but the reality is that more often than not they come out more screwed up than when they went in.

[Left Is Write]

71. I agree with that, and I do not have the expertise to suggest improvements

for rehabilitation, but I was interested in your general thoughts.

[Katherine Brengle]

72. There's a lot more I could know about it as well... nt

[karlrschneider]

86. Every law? Without exception?

...

[Bassic]

98. Prison is not a comfortable experience to begin with.

Smoking does not make them feel like they are at Club Med, believe it or not.

[etherealtruth]

112. ... or, don't get wrongly convicted

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

162. Yeah, because while you're in a cage getting raped because you had a joint we don't

want you to get the wrong message by having luxuries like cigarettes.

:eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Why bother having prisoners at all? We should just shoot 'em.

Perhaps we could get really "progressive" (or, is it populist?), and do away with all those long, expensive, trials and appeals. Or, just forget about arresting them and shoot them on sight. Or, better yet, let's just shoot smokers on sight, and save all the trouble.

And, of course, to spare the poor taxpayers, and be fair, let's shoot people who indulge in other risky behavior like snowboarding, skydiving, breaking the speed limit, getting pregnant, mining, or being a policeman.

Then the survivors can live happy, lonely, lives being SAFE, and not have to pay taxes.

[Cobalt Violet]

54. Why bother shooting them?

We can just harvest all their organs for transplants and cremate them before the anesthesia wears off.
You know, like China does.

We could make money from them.

[Cobalt Violet]

38. As long as non-smokers don't have to breath it.

That wouldn't be fair to those who don't smoke to have to breath second hand smoke if they had no way to get away from it.

[angstlessk]

40. Here's the deal...You can no longer smoke and we are going to spend the savings

from spending on your health to YOUR education..YOUR job training...YOUR mental health programs. We are not doing it to punish you, but to HELP you. Hey win/win..quit smoking AND get a degree!

[Katherine Brengle]

59. Ew.

[sweetheart]

48. sustainable prisons

What we need are sustainable prisons, where the prisoners will guard each other
without the need for police or walls, simply watching each other constantly to make
sure that everyone stays 'safe' and 'secure' in their virtual cell. Get the prisoners
to rat each other out and diminish themselves to that very social vermin, gnawing on
goodwill, and everyone gnawing on goodwill cynically until there is none at all
except the budget for more war.

[AngryAmish]

49. In the long run, for lifers, it is cheaper to let them smoke.

They tend to die early.

This is a terrible way to think of it but facts are facts.

Plus, they are in prison. Let them have their small mercies.

[Solo_in_MD]

51. Would saying "I Heart: Sheriff Joe" be considered snarky or just trolling?

[durrrty libby]

56. Neither.. It is just so easy to pick out the smokers. Just look for

the overtly angry posts or extremely lame humor

[Jed Dilligan]

53. Smoking seems to help folks in recovery

In the first phases of getting clean it's an important comfort. I think recovery programs in prison would have a lower success rate if the inmates couldn't smoke. If you lay nicotine withdrawal on top of, say, heroin withdrawal, you get a guy who is likely to be willing to sell his ass for a hit. I think if smokes get barred from prison they'll just become another form of contraband, like the drugs inside. It's already like that in California county jails.

[Taxloss]

106. Agreed. n/t

[donco]

55. Let them smoke

Looks to me like you loaded up the poll to get justification for you beliefs, still as I post this it the poll states that 75 percent favor the inmates smoking. Let them smoke, you state that it cost taxpayer money, for asthma and cancer emphysema, etc all. While you were doing the research why didn’t you look at the life span of smokers as compared to non-smokers? More than likely it’s a wash either way.

[durrrty libby]

62. Actually, it tells me some people have a long way to go,

and a lot to learn. However, in no way is it a "wash"

[Nevernose]

64. It's for the protection of the guards

Like cable TV is. It's not meant to reward prisoners, it's to protect COs from really, really bad people.

Before, if, anyone replies: in nonsmoking facilities, smoking inmates are offered nicotine replacements. We're talking about an addiction that is ~25 times more addictive than heroin.

[Marie26]

65. Sure. Who cares?

They have TV & hot food too. We're not trying to make a gulag.

[Beausoir]

66. As a smoker...I vote no. It's prison. You don't get smokes in prison.

Nor do you get drugs, alcohol or hookers.

It's called "doing time" for a reason.

Do the crime....do the time.

[Katherine Brengle]

70. ty

:clap:

[AtheistInBabylon]

73. Yes.

Yes. Regardless of the crime committed, society does not set an example by being cruel in turn and denying one of the only pleasures these people have left. Some will remain sociopaths; others will try to reform or at least spend their time as wisely as possible. Even in prison, there is such a thing as responsibility, re: paying for sex, sports bets and so forth; responsibility can´t be taught by having the possibility of it removed. Why reserve the same unremitting fate, at least as far as smoking and its larger symbolic role as a privilege in prison is concerned, for both "groups" of inmates, when there will be those among both those groups who smoke?

[me b zola]

75. In 1984, less than a week after my 21st birthday...

...I was raped at knifepoint. The rapist was caught, confessed after he was confronted with evidence, and went to prison. Never, not once, did I sit around and lament that the dirty bastard had it too easy in prison. He did a horrible thing, was caught, and payed for what he did.

I really--really--hate how some people obsess on those who are incarcerated, and the delusional thought that somehow they have it easy. Kind of reminds me of emotionally imbalanced people who like to poke caged animals with a stick, it makes them feel superior.

[Beausoir]

76. I am truly sorry for what happened to you. These bastards deserve NO sympathy.

[Jed Dilligan]

84. Wow

way to entirely miss the point of a post... amazing how people's viewpoints blind them!

[me b zola]

137. I don't have any sympathy for the creep who did this

...but nor do I waste my life on wishing him ill. He was punished, and probably more importantly, identified as a sexual preditor.

[durrrty libby]

100. So you never gave the”dirty bastard”

who committed a violent crime against you a second thought after he was incarcerated. Yet, you “hate” people who you don’t know and who have done nothing to you, because you think a simple poll is an obsession.


What a crock of shit, or you still need some major therapy.

I sincerely hope you find a way to resolve your issues.

[Marie26]

101. Let me get this straight

You're attacking an actual crime victim because she's not as concerned as you are w/making life miserable for prisoners? Oookkkaay...

[durrrty libby]

102. No you did not get it straight all, but keep focus and you may

[Marie26]

156. OK

*focusing* It's hard to keep focus when the rationale keeps shifting. Are we supposed to keep them from smoking cause we'll have to pay all their health benefits? Or is it because smoke hurts the guards? Or because smoking causes riots & gambling? Or is it to give justice to crime victims? Each rationale is offered in turn, as the apparant purpose of this thread keeps changing. All of these nominal "reasons" for the poll serve as a mask for the real one - a kind of sadistic desire to make sure they're "suffering" enough.

Don't coddle those criminals! That's such a cliched right-wing viewpoint. Personally, I could care less whether prisoners can smoke or not; whatever the prison decides is fine. But when someone seems so intent on stopping the "criminal coddling", to the point of creating a totally slanted poll & insulting actual crime victims, it's a little too fascist for me.

[me b zola]

133. What an incredibly hateful, ignorant post

I did not say that I hate the people who are obsessed with those who are incarcerated, I hate the ingnorance that generates that obsesssion and the harm it does to us as a society.

So in your infinite wisdom, you believe that a victim of crime should sit around and lament/obsess on how the person who is already being punished for the crime should be further punished. Do you feel that leads to good mental health? Do you feel that will heal the emotional scars left by the rape?

As for your crock of shit about a crock of shit, it is a matter of public record. Boonville, MO 1984.

I sincerely hope you find a way to resolve your issues.


:grr:

[durrrty libby]

143. You surely do enjoy the word "hate" Sad...really...sad

[leftofthedial]

77. they should be forced to smoke

good for the tobacco companies

good for the beleaguered prison doctor industry

cleaning up butts gives them a useful skill and a way to make money behind bars so they can--you guessed it--buy cigarettes.

perfect system!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

80. No, if I can't smoke in a bar, they can't smoke in prison.

Now, if they take away the stupid smoking ban, then they get to smoke in prison.

[Breeze54]

85. You

beat me to it! :rofl: I agree.

Let them smoke outside the prison, in the yard, in the cold, like all the rest of us!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. Seriously.

If I'm standing in a snowbank shivering, why are they nice and cozy?

[dysfunctional press]

81. if they can't smoke- what will they use as currency to peddle the new fish around...?

:shrug:

[Porcupine]

87. Yes.......POT and all they want.

provided that you insist upon keeping 1% of the population jailed at all times why not give them some reefer to help them pass the time.

I'm sure the guards would appreciate a quiet, docile population to the jumpy violent ones they have now. As long as we provided munchies things would go smoothly.

After all, the US prison system could not possibly get more illogical or insane could it?

[Blue_In_AK]

141. I'll agree with that.

I worked in corrections for a year, and I couldn't believe how the other officers obsessed on catching the inmates with pot. It didn't do anything except make the residents docile and good-natured. What could be wrong with that?

[JVS]

91. How the fuck are they going to have a currency system if they don't smoke butts?

[Blue_Tires]

92. without the cigs, what would they use for prison currency?

[atomicdawg38]

93. Oh please....

Coffee, soups, stamps, debbies, caps of weed and of course green money. Don't be naive.

[durrrty libby]

96. Don't forget all the oxycotin and other goodies smuggled in

[JVS]

114. A lot of those are shitty currency suggestion

Soup- hard to transport, very perishable, can be watered down.
Coffee- about the same as soup. Not good in cold form.
Stamps- Letter writing is easy to avoid. People on the outside rarely even use stamps
Weed- If you can't smoke cigarettes what makes you think you can smoke weed?
Green money- Can't spend it
Debbies? What are they?

Cigarretes have served as a good currency in special circumstances (i.e jail, postwar europe) because there is always a significant portion of the population who demands/ is addicted to them. This gives cigarettes their inherent value. They are also useful as currency because they are fairly durable, easy to transport, and pretty much uniform in quality so you can trust them without testing for quality.

[durrrty libby]

132. "Green money- Can't spend it"

Not true. Inmates have accounts and people deposit money in them
Family, friends or fools that answer ads placed in the tabloids

by prisoners.Stop and look while standing in the grocery line.

It is amazing. Prisoners also have people put pictures on-line

in special websites where they solicit and get cash and much more

[JVS]

142. wow. interesting

[and-justice-for-all]

95. Fuck no!!!

Thats a luxary, why the hell should a criminal be allowed any luxaries? Its not a vacation or a resort its Jail/Prison. The cable TV thing really burns my ass and the Gym?? WTF?? NO!!!

[mondo joe]

104. I defer to the professional judgment of those responsible for managing the prisons.

[durrrty libby]

108. Oh, you mean the state and federal government

Yes indeed, they are just super duper at running things.

[mondo joe]

109. Actually, I mean the professionals more directly involved. NT

[William Bloode]

110. Hell yes!

For those of you who do not know, every privilege given in jail/prison saves lives and money. With little or nothing to do, and no smoking what you get is violence. You also get a black market where cigs go for $10 each for a full smoke. They sell nasty little roll-ups made with toilet paper wrapping for $2-3. Corrections officers often get in on this lucrative business. And yes officers everywhere, never been to a single institution where a corrections officer was not busted. Let us not forget the robberies that take place for smokes. Vicious beatings i have witnessed that need not have happened.

Honestly, how many of you have been in prison at population level? How many of you truly knows what it's like to be treated as a number? I have, so i shall speak for my brethren locked away and mistreated due to prevailing attitudes.

[noonwitch]

111. Yes, why make COs jobs more difficult than they already are?

Inmates should be allowed legal porn magazines (Playboy, Hustler, etc.), but not anything that is hard-core and illegal. They should get to watch tv, have meaningful work or busywork, depending on the security level and such, and they should be able to participate in classes-high school completion, and college level (but no degrees in prison). If they don't have some of this stuff, then the job gets really difficult for the officers who have to watch them all day.

[meldroc]

113. What about option 3:

Let them smoke, but don't treat them for smoking-related illnesses - let them die of lung cancer & emphysema...

OK, I suppose that qualifies me as a cruel bastard...:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[TX-RAT]

115. Absolutely not.

[NotGivingUp]

116. some people won't miss any opportunity to tell other people what to do....disgusting. n/t

[wuushew]

120. Whats your point?

Prisons are federal or state buildings, not places of residence owned by the inmates. To not practice smoking bans when they are now very common in most if not all government buildings is at the very least inconsistent.

[Freddie Stubbs]

122. Isn't that what prison is all about?

:shrug:

[durrrty libby]

127. Exactly what is so disgusting?

Is it telling convicted felons,like child molesters and murders, that

they can’t smoke in a state building? Is that what turns your stomach, so?

You should volunteer to have some of these pillars of the community

move in next door to you when they are released. That should ease some of your

repulsive nausea of this discussion

[Nye Bevan]

117. Absolutely not

Being sent to prison is a perfect opportunity to quit. Give them patches and nicotine gum to help them quit. Being a prison guard is a hard enough job without having to be forced to inhale inmates' stale smoke. And why should we taxpayers have to pay for emphysema treatment, chemotherapy, and so on, when this could be avoided by having a no smoking rule?

Allowing prison inmates to smoke makes about as much sense to me as allowing inmates who are alcoholics a daily allowance of vodka.

[Freddie Stubbs]

121. Let them smoke if they are serving a life term

The sooner they die, the less expenses the state has to pay.

[ileus]

125. They shouldn't be provided meals on the taxpayers tab...

Families should have to provide their food. No family, better hope your stay is short.

[Bluebear]

129. That is a horrible, absolutely inhumane statement. nt

[dysfunctional press]

130. wow- what an ignorant statement and sentiment.

your foster parents must be soooo proud.

[LeftishBrit]

138. How can anyone say that on a liberal board!!!

Are you actually saying that prisoners should be allowed to starve to death if they don't have a family? That is far more inhumane than the conventional forms of the death penalty.

Even supporters of the death penalty (I'm not) would, I hope, not consider that whether someone has a family that can support them should be used as a factor in whether someone is executed.

Also, most people who are in prison are NOT there for rape, murder or serious violent crime.

I would have possibly expected such sentiments from a 19th-century extreme-right-winger. Not from ANYONE nowadays, however harsh on crime. Wow.

[mondo joe]

160. Maybe the taxpayers shouldn't be putting people in prison for drug possession.

Hm?

[JacksonWest]

128. Yes.

[DaveJ]

131. NO - What are you YES's thinking???

Smoking will not lower the tension level for the guards or the inmates. Only initially, during the first few days, a prisoner may be through withdrawal, but that goes for all the other drugs they are withdrawing from too. Once all the drugs (nicotine, heroin, cocaine, etc) are out of their system completely, that should make for a much more stable population.

[truebrit71]

134. Yeah, forcing them to quit will make them MORE stable...

...what planet do you live on? :eyes:

[DaveJ]

135. Did you read what I said? I just said...

The withdrawal period lasts just a few days.

On the other hand, if you allow smoking, they will have inmates who are going through withdrawal all the time, every time they run out. Then they will end up with a population willing to kill one another for their next fix.

[truebrit71]

139. Yeah, because they're all so passive now...

Withdrawal lasts just a few days....

Again, what planet are you from?

Let 'em smoke...

[durrrty libby]

136. What's that you say? They don't get crack and meth?????

But...but...but.....How cruel, callous and sadistic of you



:spank: :spank: :hurts: :freak:

[truebrit71]

140. Yeah, because crack and meth are fully legal products...Oh wait a minute...

....Let's compare apples to apples shall we?

[ComerPerro]

144. Do they get to goof off and eat candy and play music and browse the net uncensored?

maybe they can have a cell phone too?

We could give each one their own private room, closed off, with a soft bed and a TV and DVD player and computer and PS3.


And we are really overlooking their most important right as a human being and especially an American citizen: their second amendment rights.

Shouldn't all prisoners get guns to go with their cigarettes?


Oh, wait, no.... Guess not. That would be stupid.

[Porcupine]

146. Well, that would quiet things down in prisons.

Why shouldn't they goof off? Do you advocate slave labor? That's what prison labor is. Remember it used to be criminal to be black in America; it still is in some towns.

They get to eat candy now if they can afford it. It is sold to them at insane profit margins; about 3x what the same candy costs outside. Prisons are a for-profit industry you know.

If prisoners had laptops and were allowed to surf the net uncensored they would have less interest in fighting each other or the guards. If they spend all day whacking off they aren't fighting are they? The access could expand as incidents of violence taper off; a week of no fighting and it's all the free porno you can find. I bet things would get REAL quiet.

Of course our current prison system promotes illiteracy by restricting access to reading material and closing libraries.

Remember again that these people eventually return to live alongside the rest of us.

[Scairp]

149. I abhor smoking, but

Under these circumstances, let them have cigarettes. After all, it's the only legal vice they can engage in. If their in for life, who cares if they die an unnatural death due to smoking? Also, even non-smoking inmates use cigs to trade and to buy favors or whatever. If they disallow cigarettes, then what do they then use to (literally) keep Bubba off their ass?

[kestrel91316]

154. Nope. The prison is A WORKPLACE. No smoking should EVER

be allowed in a workplace, subjecting employees to involuntary exposure.

It's not about the inmates. It's about worker rights.

[KansDem]

155. Only if they go outside to do it.

Say, 25 feet from the entrance, although I'm sure courteous inmates who smoke would want to move even further away...

[Liberal In Texas]

159. Great. Another smoking thread. Welcome to my ignore list. n/t

[durrrty libby]

164. People who feel the need to announce that they are ignoring

a thread, are very, very special

[Generic Brad]

163. Only if they are on fire.

Sort of like this, but less angry -- :grr: